meridians, chakra and purity fw: from Ellen Madono

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam,

I am trying to understand why the bladder is associated with the 2nd

chakra, kidneys are associated with the 3rd chakra, and large intestines

with the 1st and I am having some difficulty. How are organs

related to chakra? I will describe my preconceptions and perhaps you can

show me where I am confused or where the two systems are working with

different interests.

I am associating Chinese meridians with chakras because of the location

of their diagnostic areas on the human back as it sensed in the Chinese

system. That is, bladder and kidney meridian diagnostic areas are close

to the first chakra. The energy is strongly felt close to the sacrum and

just above it. Also, back injuries associated with those places and the

corresponding meridians occur there. Finally, after a good kundalini

session, my sacrum tingles and I take this as

evidence of my two kundalini snakes being awakened from their nap where

they sleep beneath the sacrum. The two systems differ in that the

Chinese meridians refer

to a certain kind of energy that passes through the organ and that it is

named for and strongly influence that organ, but is not that organ.

In Yoga, when you refer to a chakra, like a meridian, it is a kind of

energy (has a color, influences a plexus of nerve vibration, nerves that

stem from and influence specific organs, and influences certain

emotional and spiritual energy or so I thought. Possibly the emotional

and spiritual vibration is more important in the yogic system.

  I am confused because the Kidney nerve entry goes through the

pelvic ganglion and into lumbar 3-5 of the spine. That is, these nerves

are just above the pelvis (the location of the Chinese diagnostic

areas).

The physical kidney, on the other hand is hidden under the liver. If you

think of it as part of the glandular system (adrenal gland is over the

kidney

and the physical functions of the kidney proper are controlled by

hormones), then it is physically part of the system of organs under the

diaphragm (stomach, liver, spleen pancreas and gall bladder). Maybe the

hormonal function of the kidney is more important in the Vedic system??

  The Chinese also emphasize the

hormonal function of the kidneys. All of the above organs are involved

in food digestion except the kidneys. Aside from bile production for the

digestion of oils, the liver is like the kidney because it also removes

toxins from the body. I assume that the Yoga system speaks of the organs

related to chakra as the organs that I am describing above. Which

functions of the organs are important in the yogic system (nerve

enervation or hormonal or other functions such as digestion and

detoxification? I assume that unlike the

Chinese system, in the yogic system there is no concern with the energy

of a particular organ.

I once thumbed through a book describing "kundalini yogameridians."

Standing and reading in the bookstore, I thought it was much more

complex than the Chinese system.

Any meridian system is just a mnemonic device (a memorizing image) to

simplify a complex but natural and relatively organized flow of energy.

The shiatsu and acupuncture profesessionals along with Thai masseurs and

their folk blend of aureuvedic and Chinese systems easily get into

complicating their basic systems. These systems are easily complicated

because we can send prana where we will to send it. If we are injured,

we can create new pathways. But there are natually open channels where

the prana moves easily because of the influence of other material flows

(blood, nervous electric energy, magnetic energy, and even lymphatic

flows).   What we are learning as the ida, pingala and sushuma are

just the tip of the iceberg of the aureuvedic images of "meridians"????

The ida and pingala are meridians that are supposed to twist around and

pass through the sushuma that goes through the center of the spine. The

chakras are the spin of pranic energy that draws the ida and pingala

into the spine. A meridian is a channel through which energy passes.

Unlike a blood vessel, there is no physical marker on the channel, no

"cellular walls." In that sense, the Indian and the Chinese meridians

are the same. (Prana, ki or chi are all the same concept.) The kundalini

is "pool" of prana, that lies hidden beneath the sacrum.

Except for its location near the sexual organs and its evolutionary

relationship with the genitals, I have a hard time seeing why the

bladder would be related to the second chakra. The large intestines as

first chakra is obvious from the perspective of location, but a

functional relationship is hard for me to imagine.

To repeat my question, from a yogic perspective, how are organs related

to chakra?

No I don't have these books, and I will look for them, in the meantime,

could you please post the 1st chakra meditation?

CONCERNING PURITY OF THE SYSTEM AND THE TRANSMISSION OF KNOWLEDGE

I am sometimes confused about the purity of the kundalini system. I see

some words

that seem to be variations of Sanskrit (susuma and sushuma). As we are

describing postures, I see other non-kundalini sources because of course

we pick up yoga from many sources. I personally always use what I have

learned in the past (Tai chi, hath and Ashtanga).

But, I have physically felt that it is dangerous to put two powerful

systems together. For example, doing Ashtanga, I threw in the breath of

fire once when doing a posture that was not especially difficult for me.

Almost immediately, I pulled a muscle where I have no tendency for

injury. I attribute this to the power of the breath of fire that is

inappropriate for the strong flexes of Ashtanga yoga. To move into the

postures that Ashtanga yoga promote, you need to gradually build

strength. The breath of fire heated me up, but too fast for my muscular

strength.

A more immediate problem concerns my teaching method. I recently started

teaching two classes at a Jewish Community Center where chanting is not

allowed. The students

are not necessarily resistant to chanting, it is the political structure

that runs the center that does not approve of chanting (orthodox Jew are

particularly adamant.) I feel I can't use music that has chanting,

although I am not sure. I feel repressed by this rule, but I accept it

as political reality.

When I asked Hari Simran of New Mexico about this situation, she

abruptly replied, don't teach at the JCC. I am sure she is speaking from

experience, but all of my neighbors go to the JCC. I don't have another

job currently and need to get started. So, I am trying to compromise,

but maybe I will find that Kundalini yoga cannot even be introduced if

you have to compromise.

Students are very excited by the Breathwalk and by the little that I am

teaching of kundalini yoga. Aside from the different breaths, I show

them where the meridian is that is being stretched or moved through a

kriya that is meant to for example work on the liver, bladder or kidney.

As I apply the meridians to kriyas, it is very clear to me that in most

cases, the medians as I understand them in Chinese medicine also make

sense in kundalini yoga. I hope I am not corrupting the purity of the

system.

If I do Ashtanga, I open with the proper chant and close as I have been

taught. I am practicing with the blessing of the gurus of that

tradition. I apply the same rule to Kundalini practice.

When I teach a kriya that I learned from a book, if I am still "learning

it" that is I have not practiced it dozens of times and memorized it,

then I share the text that I have taken it from with my students. I let

them know that I am learning it too. I tell them my experience, and when

they ask questions that are not in the text, I reply from my personal

experience and other reading.

I would never combine breath of fire and Ashtanga yoga, but I would tell

students to constrict their throats (part of ujai breath from Ashtanga

yoga) when I am trying to get them to concentrate on for example deep

breathing. Not because I expect them to do that always, which I don't,

but to get them to focus. I would use Taichi motions to help them to

visualize deep breathing because the deep breathing is the same in both

systems. That is, there must be a sense of what is safe to borrow, if

only as a teaching tool for the moment.

What are your guidelines?

Sat Nam

Gian Kaur (Ellen Madono

[Guest guest]

>I am trying to understand why the bladder is associated with the 2nd

> chakra, kidneys are associated with the 3rd chakra, and large

> intestines with the 1st and I am having some difficulty. How are

 

This is a complex discussion, more than I'm willing to write about

here, particularly because Dr. Dharma Singh has done such an

insightful job in "Meditation as Medicine".

 

I'll simply say that each chakra has clearly defined associations

with certain glands and organs, and physical co-location or direct

connection via nadi is not necessarily the point. BTW, kidneys are

actually associated with both 2nd and 3rd chakra (from that

book "...no chakra stands alone, neither does any organ or

gland...".) Dr. Dharma is both a yogi and a Western medical

physician who seem to understand the relationship between organs,

glands, chakras and meridians very well, so you will probably find

his book very helpful, and his explanations much more clear than

anything I could easily summarize.

 

>I am associating Chinese meridians with chakras because of the

 

I think you will find it more helpful to think of the chakras as

something very different. I think of them as the

energetic/emotional/spiritual equivalent of organs or nerve plexii of

the physical body, but operating at a higher level of integration.

They are functional units that do a variety of different things, such

as taking in prana and re-distributing it, as well as effecting/being

effected by physical elements (hormones, nerve messages, etc.),

emotional elements, and spiritual elements, all of which also effect

the flow of prana and the sub-categories of prana (apana, etc.), and

so forth - multiple feedback loops occuring in concert. Chakras

effect our thoughts and are effected by them, and effect/effected by

the shifting relationship of conscious and sub-conscious mind...

 

>related to chakra as the organs that I am describing above. Which

>functions of the organs are important in the yogic system (nerve

 

I think all of them are important.

 

>the center of the spine. The chakras are the spin of pranic energy

>that draws the ida and pingala into the spine. A meridian is a

>channel through which energy passes. Unlike a blood vessel, there is

>no physical marker on the channel, no "cellular walls." In that

>sense, the Indian and the Chinese meridians are the same. (Prana, ki

>or chi are all the same concept.) The kundalini is "pool" of prana,

>that lies hidden beneath the sacrum.

 

My understanding is that although yes, prana/ki/chi are the same, but

kundalini energy is not exactly prana in the same sense. It is

potentiated and released by the proper combination of prana and

apana, and is a healing energy at a different level than prana per

se - think of it as "super-prana".

 

And there are far more to chakras than simply vortices of pranic

energy. They have physical, psychological, and spiritual

characteristics, and they operate on all these levels (at least).

For example, they are physically co-located with nerve plexii and

endocrine glands and act as an interface between the pranic energy

network and the physical networks of nerves, blood, etc. Physical

dysfunctions can be classified by chakra (and associated body parts),

and these dysfunctions are demonstrably healed or effected by working

on the associated chakras (by kriya and/or the medical meditations

that Dharma Singh discusses). Equivalent demonstrations are made

with emotional dysfunctions.

 

>Except for its location near the sexual organs and its evolutionary

>relationship with the genitals, I have a hard time seeing why the

>bladder would be related to the second chakra. The large intestines

>as first chakra is obvious from the perspective of location, but a

>functional relationship is hard for me to imagine.

 

First chakra is earth element and is (among other things) responsible

for elimination of earthy waste products via the rectum, hence the

large intestines. Second chakra is water element and is (among other

things) responsible for (watery) secretions of associated organs

(kidneys, bladder, penis/testicles/prostate or uterus/fallopian

tubes/vagina).

 

>To repeat my question, from a yogic perspective, how are organs

>related to chakra?

 

Please read Dharma Singh's book for much more insight!

 

>could you please post the 1st chakra meditation?

 

Sit in easy pose and start the meditation with a warm-up. The arms

are held out to the side, elbows bent, palms facing each other at a

60 degree angle. Begin moving the hands slowly together while

squeezing the sphincter muscles until the hands meet at the center.

Release the contraction of the anus at this moment, keep repeating

for 1-3 minutes (warm-up).

 

Now that we have a sense of the meditation, we begin to chant with

the music: the mantra is Hummee Hum, Brahm Hum (of course you can do

this a capella if you don't have the tape). From the same starting

position, we will bring the hands together in two distinct and strong

movements. The first movement brings the hands halfway in, as you

chant Hummee Hum. Your hands stop briefly, and begin to move again

as you chant Brahm Hum. While your hands move, squeeze the anus and

maintain the contraction until the hands touch. Then relax the

contraction, return the hands to the starting position, and repeat

(work up slowly from 11 to 31 minutes).

 

The drishti (eye focus) is at the tip of the nose (9/10 closed). The

mantra is chanted in a special way: the tongue is recessed - relaxed

and flat in the bottom of the mouth. It is not used in this chant,

and holding it like this will produce a pressure that will be felt in

the cheekbones. To end, inhale deeply to the starting position, hold

for 10 seconds, exhale, relax.

 

>breathing because the deep breathing is the same in both systems.

>That is, there must be a sense of what is safe to borrow, if only as

>a teaching tool for the moment.

>What are your guidelines?

 

That is truly a very broad question. The best way I can answer is to

say that the easiest way to get a sense of this is to do teacher

training in KY. Having done this, I usually have a good intuition of

what teaching tools to use from other paths and how to use them - and

what not to use. It sounds like you are doing a wonderful job with

the tools that you have at your disposal, but having a greater depth

of knowledge about KY would no doubt enable you to do even better.

 

Love & blessings,

Sadhant

[Guest guest]

Thank-you for your detailed answer. I am leaving tomorrow for teacher

training. The meditation helps me to focus on the first chakra which is in

itself a kind of answer to my question.

Sat Nam

-

"Sadhant Singh" <kundaliniyoga

<Kundaliniyoga>

Friday, July 06, 2001 12:00 PM

Re: meridians, chakra and purity fw: from Ellen

Madono

 

 

> >I am trying to understand why the bladder is associated with the 2nd

> > chakra, kidneys are associated with the 3rd chakra, and large

> > intestines with the 1st and I am having some difficulty. How are

>

> This is a complex discussion, more than I'm willing to write about

> here, particularly because Dr. Dharma Singh has done such an

> insightful job in "Meditation as Medicine".

>

> I'll simply say that each chakra has clearly defined associations

> with certain glands and organs, and physical co-location or direct

> connection via nadi is not necessarily the point. BTW, kidneys are

> actually associated with both 2nd and 3rd chakra (from that

> book "...no chakra stands alone, neither does any organ or

> gland...".) Dr. Dharma is both a yogi and a Western medical

> physician who seem to understand the relationship between organs,

> glands, chakras and meridians very well, so you will probably find

> his book very helpful, and his explanations much more clear than

> anything I could easily summarize.

>

> >I am associating Chinese meridians with chakras because of the

>

> I think you will find it more helpful to think of the chakras as

> something very different. I think of them as the

> energetic/emotional/spiritual equivalent of organs or nerve plexii of

> the physical body, but operating at a higher level of integration.

> They are functional units that do a variety of different things, such

> as taking in prana and re-distributing it, as well as effecting/being

> effected by physical elements (hormones, nerve messages, etc.),

> emotional elements, and spiritual elements, all of which also effect

> the flow of prana and the sub-categories of prana (apana, etc.), and

> so forth - multiple feedback loops occuring in concert. Chakras

> effect our thoughts and are effected by them, and effect/effected by

> the shifting relationship of conscious and sub-conscious mind...

>

> >related to chakra as the organs that I am describing above. Which

> >functions of the organs are important in the yogic system (nerve

>

> I think all of them are important.

>

> >the center of the spine. The chakras are the spin of pranic energy

> >that draws the ida and pingala into the spine. A meridian is a

> >channel through which energy passes. Unlike a blood vessel, there is

> >no physical marker on the channel, no "cellular walls." In that

> >sense, the Indian and the Chinese meridians are the same. (Prana, ki

> >or chi are all the same concept.) The kundalini is "pool" of prana,

> >that lies hidden beneath the sacrum.

>

> My understanding is that although yes, prana/ki/chi are the same, but

> kundalini energy is not exactly prana in the same sense. It is

> potentiated and released by the proper combination of prana and

> apana, and is a healing energy at a different level than prana per

> se - think of it as "super-prana".

>

> And there are far more to chakras than simply vortices of pranic

> energy. They have physical, psychological, and spiritual

> characteristics, and they operate on all these levels (at least).

> For example, they are physically co-located with nerve plexii and

> endocrine glands and act as an interface between the pranic energy

> network and the physical networks of nerves, blood, etc. Physical

> dysfunctions can be classified by chakra (and associated body parts),

> and these dysfunctions are demonstrably healed or effected by working

> on the associated chakras (by kriya and/or the medical meditations

> that Dharma Singh discusses). Equivalent demonstrations are made

> with emotional dysfunctions.

>

> >Except for its location near the sexual organs and its evolutionary

> >relationship with the genitals, I have a hard time seeing why the

> >bladder would be related to the second chakra. The large intestines

> >as first chakra is obvious from the perspective of location, but a

> >functional relationship is hard for me to imagine.

>

> First chakra is earth element and is (among other things) responsible

> for elimination of earthy waste products via the rectum, hence the

> large intestines. Second chakra is water element and is (among other

> things) responsible for (watery) secretions of associated organs

> (kidneys, bladder, penis/testicles/prostate or uterus/fallopian

> tubes/vagina).

>

> >To repeat my question, from a yogic perspective, how are organs

> >related to chakra?

>

> Please read Dharma Singh's book for much more insight!

>

> >could you please post the 1st chakra meditation?

>

> Sit in easy pose and start the meditation with a warm-up. The arms

> are held out to the side, elbows bent, palms facing each other at a

> 60 degree angle. Begin moving the hands slowly together while

> squeezing the sphincter muscles until the hands meet at the center.

> Release the contraction of the anus at this moment, keep repeating

> for 1-3 minutes (warm-up).

>

> Now that we have a sense of the meditation, we begin to chant with

> the music: the mantra is Hummee Hum, Brahm Hum (of course you can do

> this a capella if you don't have the tape). From the same starting

> position, we will bring the hands together in two distinct and strong

> movements. The first movement brings the hands halfway in, as you

> chant Hummee Hum. Your hands stop briefly, and begin to move again

> as you chant Brahm Hum. While your hands move, squeeze the anus and

> maintain the contraction until the hands touch. Then relax the

> contraction, return the hands to the starting position, and repeat

> (work up slowly from 11 to 31 minutes).

>

> The drishti (eye focus) is at the tip of the nose (9/10 closed). The

> mantra is chanted in a special way: the tongue is recessed - relaxed

> and flat in the bottom of the mouth. It is not used in this chant,

> and holding it like this will produce a pressure that will be felt in

> the cheekbones. To end, inhale deeply to the starting position, hold

> for 10 seconds, exhale, relax.

>

> >breathing because the deep breathing is the same in both systems.

> >That is, there must be a sense of what is safe to borrow, if only as

> >a teaching tool for the moment.

> >What are your guidelines?

>

> That is truly a very broad question. The best way I can answer is to

> say that the easiest way to get a sense of this is to do teacher

> training in KY. Having done this, I usually have a good intuition of

> what teaching tools to use from other paths and how to use them - and

> what not to use. It sounds like you are doing a wonderful job with

> the tools that you have at your disposal, but having a greater depth

> of knowledge about KY would no doubt enable you to do even better.

>

> Love & blessings,

> Sadhant

>

>

>

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> - Yogi Bhajan

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