Bhakti, individuality, and acceptance

August 23, 2001

Dear Gururattan Kaur,

Sat Nam.

My husband has had some dialog with Gordon over the issue of his posting a

bhakti yoga ("Hare Krishna") mantra to the list. The reason I am writing to

you is that I feel Paul is echoing an issue that is present in my life. I

have a lot of respect for your development on the path of kundalini yoga and

as a teacher, so I am interested in your opinion if it isn't too much

trouble.

First I'll give you a little background... I have been practicing kundalini

yoga since 1995, when I was 18. It was at that time that I meant my husband

and he introduced me to reiki, vegetarianism, open communication, and yoga.

So, my life opened up in a way I felt I had always been looking for and not

knowing what it was. Anyway, after a few blissful weeks Paul moved across

the country to Washington state. There is a lot that could be said about

all that, but one thing that happened was that Paul came across _The

Bhagavad Gita As It Is_ translated by Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada.

Long story short he meant Krishna one night and was forever changed. One

result was that his ability to practice yoga very well seemed to depart. So

I moved out there a few months later and we sincerely practiced kundalini

yoga and Krishna katha. I was soon pregnant, and in the years following

that I studied KY and Krishna consciousness together and alternatively at

different times. After a long stint away from Krishna consciousness after

having sort of escaped from a farming community which we still love recently

I have been teaching kundalini yoga and keeping up a pretty regular

practice. I ended a class at the beginning of this month because things

were not good between the manager I was working through and me.

So, feeling it was somehow "time", Paul and I managed to pretty easily

acquire two sets of deities, Gaura Nitai and Jagannatha, Baladeva, and

Subadra. It was our intention to do for them whatever felt right and good

for us, as we were told they did not take offense. After having them a few

weeks the desire to serve them began to develop in me and after obtaining

some supplies and an instructional book I began doing so, daily offering

aratik, awakening Them in the morning, making clothes for Them, etc. This

is really changing my life! I am amazed at what happens to me when I engage

myself in these activities. My energy feels very raised and integrated, and

my realization of God is increasing.

This gets to my question to you and I hope this isn't all too long winded.

I know that what I am doing is right for me. I had been planning on

starting up another class right away, but now I am feeling like it may be

best to take a break, especially since there is the chance my husband could

get a job and we could move- potentially beginning in November (it has to do

with his ability to bid on state jobs here in PA), which would be fulfilling

a long term goal of ours. But I am still a kundalini yoga teacher.

Regardless of what the Hare Krishna's and 3ho camps claim, I have

experienced that each has criticism of the other. In my own personal life I

am feeling high and integrated, well, actually I have been experiencing some

general confusion and energetic challenges as well. But socially I am

feeling disturbed that somehow the two paths don't mix. Sikhism is pretty

integrated into KY due to the use of mantras from the faith, which seem to

offer direction for the bhakti aspect. I remember reading that Sikhs don't

bow to deities in the book on the sikhnet website. I guess I can't change

the groups' individuality and I will have to make peace with the fact that

I'm not one nor the other but my own complete whole and part of nature and

God. But it is a bit difficult for me when I think about teaching and

social dealings. Perhaps it is that this identity just isn't fully grounded

in me yet.

I also am attracted to the ways of Central and South America. I was

recently reading about the altered state of consciousness a shaman enters

when working with nature and spirit and it sounded exactly like Sat Nam

Rasayan healing. Not really that surprising, but it reminds me that we can

be thinking one way is the best, and not seeing that the other way really

isn't that different when you look out of the window of the house that holds

your tools and processes.

I am interested in any comments you may have. I think I am going to post

this to the list incase anyone else may find these issues of interest.

Thank you

Wahe Guru,

Love Always,

littlebird Leslie

AKA Guru Chiter Kaur

>

> Gururattan K.Khalsa [rattanak]

> Wednesday, August 22, 2001 2:29 PM

> Kundaliniyoga

> Re: Sex or Celibacy?

>

August 23, 2001

Dear Littlebird,

Your beautiful letter was written to Gururattan Kaur, but I am taking the

liberty of giving my "short version of reality" here. I will be away from

the list for a few weeks and I may not see what this discussion turns into.

But anyway... Here is what I believe: that all names, all paths, and all

yogas belong to One God. It is just us when we function in "little me" mode

that make up the differences. Sat Nam and Hare Krishna are the names of the

same One. So are Jay Ram or Allah Akbar for that matter.

I will admit my own "promiscuity" by saying that while I do practice the KY

kriyas, my meditation practice is actually not KY - I am coming from a Zen

practice background but received the Om Namah Shivaya mantra in a rather

miraculous way (I won't go into the details), and this is what I am using

for japa and meditation. I have visited many temples and churches, shrines

and mosques, and tried to follow their practices as reverently as possible.

It never struck me that there was any essential difference among them. My

meditation teacher quotes just as eloquently from Teresa de Avila as from

Guru Nanak, Tukaram Maharaj, Buddha and Sufi mystics - I have learned from

her that the same Truth comes knocking on our door in many different shapes.

I read and respect the Qur'an, the Torah, the New Testament, the Guru Granth

Sahib and the Shiva Sutras just the same. I always have trouble when people

ask me what my religion is. I don't know - all of them! And that includes

science since I am a mathematician and computer scientist myself.

I have been told by some that for many people it is better to have just one

clear path or they get confused if they are not prepared to deal with the

actual vastness of the universe. Maybe this is why our moderators asked Paul

not to post about Hare Krishna anymore. I have learned about this privately,

and I cannot say I was happy. People talk about Christianity and Wicca on

this list, and also about sex and making money come to think of it. I

wouldn't know why Hare Krishna is more inappropriate than these. I have two

magnificent recordings of it that I sometimes chant along to. And for those

who are wondering, no, it doesn't interfere with my KY practice in the

least.

I am not saying everyone should run off and learn about as many religions

and spiritual paths as they can. It may be safer to stick with one. But

being adverse to another name of the same God is not such a good thing to do

either. Muslims recognize Jesus Christ as a holy prophet, but I don't know

many Christians who recognize Mohammed as a holy prophet! Such a pity. In

the time I have been on the list I have seen some veiled or not-so-veiled

affirmations of the "my-path-is-better-than-yours" type. Any spiritual path

will bring a seeker home. And it would surprise me a whole lot if it turned

out that the destination was different. So then, what is the point in

bragging about one's path and disparaging somebody else's.

I think you said you don't believe truth is non-judgement anymore than you

believe in the "one reality". I cannot speak from your experience, so I will

speak from mine. Let us remember that we do not live anywhere else but in

our own minds... And to my mind (and to my experience), reality is pretty

much... one. As in E=mc^2, as in Sat Nam, as in Tat Tvam Asi.

Non-judgement - again, to my mind - doesn't mean not having an opinion, but

having an opinion while remembering that the same energy scintillates both

in the seer and the seen, in the judged and the one who judges. Leaving any

religions aside, I believe this even if only on the basis of the equation

above, which says exactly that, and which has been illustriously proved. I

am not talking mysticism here - I am talking mathematical proof that there

is one energy into which everything converges. Paul chided me for "talking

enlightened" - I was in fact talking mathematics ; ).

We love in the same language, we meditate in the same language, we sleep in

the same language, we laugh and cry in the same language, we do mathematics

in the same language, we make music in the same language, we hope in the

same language, we pray in the same language. I have no idea how divisions

come about. Differences are beneficial, but exclusion is not, imho. I

remember from my little discussion with Paul on the list that we were

basically talking about the highest expression of devotion - whether it is

to stay separate from the Beloved so that you can worship Him, or becoming

one with Him so that your whole life is nothing but His life. Some people on

the list misunderstood the gist of the whole discussion. We weren't having

an argument in the usual sense of the word. We were talking about the Great

Love. And I think we both found things to think about and appreciate. So

there is a choice: appreciate what people have to offer, or throw stones at

them. Which one is more beneficial?

This being said, my idea would be just to do what you feel is the right

thing. And if someone tries to convince you to do just what THEY think is

the right thing, and you don't, well, just ignore them. Politely, but ignore

them nevertheless. Especially if they keep you away from an aspect of

divinity. Your life is simply yours. Make your choice and be happy. If you

have to choose between Sat Nam and Hare Krishna, choose both if that is what

your heart tells you. I would be hard-pressed to believe God would like you

less if you chanted two of His names instead of just one.

I will be away for a while, please don't flame me too badly in the meantime

; )!

Sat Nam!

Hare Krishna!

Halleluja!

Om Tare Soha!

Allah Akbar!

Jaya Gurudeva!

Much love and blessings to all,

Satsang Kaur

August 23, 2001

Dear Satsang Kaur,

I just have to say I agree totally with everything you have said about

the Oness of Divinity and the vailidity of all paths. I've been having

an ongoing discussion recently with an old aquaintance about this very

subject, and getting absolutely nowhere. This person is totally

convinced that I am on my way to Hell because I don't share her absolute

conviction that her path is the right and only one ( we were brought up

in the same faith) It's sad, but what disturbs me more than anything

else is the lack of tolerance for other people's rights and views. And

the arrogance in believing that she , or her church, knows what is right

for everyone.

I've decided to give up the discussion, because no meaningful discussion

is possibe with a closed mind. It's very refreshing to be part of this

group, where all knids of views are acceptable !

love to all,

Avtar K.

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August 23, 2001

Dear Satsang Kaur,

It was KY that brought me once again, to the realization that God is in all

things, all religions, all spirituality, and I feel that there must be some

misunderstanding....somewhere. I very much enjoyed Paul's posts, and it

seems almost anti-Kundalini Yoga that he would be asked to restrict the

subject matter of his posts when it is or was in context to the issues of

this list. Through Kundalini Yoga I discovered the power and beauty of the

Krishna chants, and I was happy to be involved in a path that accepted

all...and for the moment, it seems that may not be the case. I can't help

but think that Nanak would be shaking his head over this kind of

thing...there being only two choices. Division...or Oneness.

Sat Nam, Hari Bol,

Bob

----Original Message-----

Satsang Kaur [satsang]

Thursday, August 23, 2001 9:58 AM

Kundaliniyoga

Re: Bhakti, individuality, and acceptance