Guest guest Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Sat Nam Gilberto, Pretty hot topic these days. I am always looking for precise information on this very subject so after seeing your post I had to do a Google search and found an interesting site that lays out the debate within Buddhism pretty well. (http://www.fnsa.org/fall98/tsomo1.html ). Buddha was a Hindu by birth (Siddhartha Gautama) so I wonder where the two points of view could have diverged. Hinduism has some cosmological roots in the Vedas and would be/should be, in theory, responsive to the concepts contained in Vedic Science aka Yogic Science. The first precept, as Buddha taught, is not to take life.....any life. "All sentient beings, including animals and insects, have the potential for enlightenment, but because intelligence is important for spiritual evolution, a human rebirth is regarded as a very special opportunity. Conception is viewed as an instance of collective karma, indicating a karmic affinity or association between mother, father, and child in countless past lives." That is a pretty wide definition of life, but if one is to be consistent, a person who does not advocate abortion must also not eat meat or squash mosquitoes. I know of a number of Traditional Buddhist Monks who eat meat. This was and still is, at times, confusing to me. His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama, Tenzin Gyatso, is watching closely to see whether medical research is able to determine precisely when the consciousness enters the fertilized egg, whether at the time of conception or perhaps somewhat later. In 1992, he voiced the unorthodox and controversial view that: "There might be situations in which, if the child will be so severely handicapped that it will undergo great suffering, abortion is permissible. In general, however, abortion is the taking of life and is not appropriate. The main factor is motivation." Making such ethical decisions is a tremendous personal responsibility, however, and one's motivation is crucially important. Another Tibetan, Lama Thubten Yeshe, once said, "If you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you are creating happiness rather than suffering for a being by killing it, then go ahead. But who, other than a person with a very high level of spiritual realization, can be completely sure?" In the Buddhist perspective, such confidence would require the power to discern other beings' past and future lives, and this ability is rare. The traditional Buddhist view takes into account the happiness of both the unborn fetus and the pregnant woman, not only in this life, but in all future rebirths, and this is beyond the ability of ordinary people to see. I am glad to know that the Dalai Lama and other Buddhist Lamas are keeping an open ear to the debate. Maybe living in India since 1957 does that to a guy. "In the end, most Buddhists recognize the incongruity that exists between ethical theory and actual practice and, while they do not condone the taking of life, do advocate understanding and compassion toward all living beings, a lovingkindness that is nonjudgmental and respects the right and freedom of human beings to make their own choices. " Sat Nam, Dharam Singh Cintron Velez, Gilberto wrote: > Sat Nam Rama Kaur, > > There are several views on this, depending on the spiritual path. > According to Buddhism, the dharma I follow, the 'consciousness' > establishes itself in a fertilized egg. In other words, the new life > begins at the time of conception. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Sat Nam all, Thank you to all who replied to my question. I was interested to know because I have been hanging on to a desire for marijuana. I always told myself I would quit when I was 25 but I really don't want it anymore but I can't seem to let it go. By determining when my soul entered my body I could tell myself, "I have been on this earth for 25 years, therefore I can release this desire that does not serve me." I won't really be 25 till March but this rational has helped me release from the desire at least for now and I know the longer I go without it the less I want it. On a side note, a clarvoiyant I know says that she sees a little cluster of light what she perceives to be a soul in the energy field of a pregnant woman and in about the 5th month it goes inside. She has also said that sometimes souls select their parents before conception and just hang out in their energy fields until there is a body for them to enter. Thanks again, RaMa Kuar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 "She has also said that sometimes souls select their parents before conception and just hang out in their energy fields until there is a body for them to enter." Ra Ma Kaur This made me laugh because it reminded me of something my teacher had told us once...along the same lines. When a man and woman come together in the sexual act (and I believe it was specific to the woman's time of ovulation)....the room is "absolutely teaming" with hopeful souls...all wanting to be the one who gets to incarnate, if conception occurs...so it is quite a hoot to imagine "the crowd" that must congregate...in what we might typically think of as our most private moments!! ha ha ha! ~ Sat Sangeet Kaur PS. Hopefully this doesn't add to anyones already existing performance anxiety!! That wasn't my intention! Ha ha! Post your free ad now! Canada Personals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 oooo... that's a funny thought! *smile* x - "Sat Sangeet" <satsangeetkaur > When a man and woman come together in the sexual act (and I believe it was specific to the woman's time of ovulation)....the room is "absolutely teaming" with hopeful souls...all wanting to be the one who gets to incarnate, if conception occurs...so it is quite a hoot to imagine > "the crowd" that must congregate...in what we might typically think of as our most private moments!! ha ha ha! ~ > > Sat Sangeet Kaur > PS. Hopefully this doesn't add to anyones already existing performance anxiety!! That wasn't my intention! Ha ha! > > Post your free ad now! Canada Personals > > > > > > > "OUR DESTINY IS TO BE HAPPY" - Yogi Bhajan > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, please send a blank email to > Kundaliniyoga > NO UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS TO THE LIST PLEASE!> > > WEB SITE: kundalini yoga > > KUNDALINI YOGA ON-LINE TRAINING. Details from > kundalini yogaclasses.html > > Transitions to a Heart Centered World - Gururattan K. Khalsa Ph.D. > The most comprehensive source of Yogi Bhajan's Kundalini Yoga sets and meditations available! > transitions.html > > Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Sat Nam Dharam Ji, Thanks a lot for the link, that is a very good article on Buddhist ethics. You know, I've always wondered why these enlightened beings (Buddhist, Sikh, Hindu, Christians, etc.) don't come to an agreement on these matters. Sometimes I suspect they say different things on purpose, in order to force us to look for the truth by ourselves. The Buddha's last dying words to his disciples were " Be a lamp unto yourselves." Best Regards, Gilberto Dharam Singh [pran--yogi] Wednesday, October 22, 2003 12:24 PM Kundaliniyoga Re: Kundalini Yoga soul enters the body? (and Buddhist thought) Sat Nam Gilberto, Pretty hot topic these days. I am always looking for precise information on this very subject so after seeing your post I had to do a Google search and found an interesting site that lays out the debate within Buddhism pretty well. (http://www.fnsa.org/fall98/tsomo1.html ). Buddha was a Hindu by birth (Siddhartha Gautama) so I wonder where the two points of view could have diverged. Hinduism has some cosmological roots in the Vedas and would be/should be, in theory, responsive to the concepts contained in Vedic Science aka Yogic Science. The first precept, as Buddha taught, is not to take life.....any life. "All sentient beings, including animals and insects, have the potential for enlightenment, but because intelligence is important for spiritual evolution, a human rebirth is regarded as a very special opportunity. Conception is viewed as an instance of collective karma, indicating a karmic affinity or association between mother, father, and child in countless past lives." That is a pretty wide definition of life, but if one is to be consistent, a person who does not advocate abortion must also not eat meat or squash mosquitoes. I know of a number of Traditional Buddhist Monks who eat meat. This was and still is, at times, confusing to me. His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama, Tenzin Gyatso, is watching closely to see whether medical research is able to determine precisely when the consciousness enters the fertilized egg, whether at the time of conception or perhaps somewhat later. In 1992, he voiced the unorthodox and controversial view that: "There might be situations in which, if the child will be so severely handicapped that it will undergo great suffering, abortion is permissible. In general, however, abortion is the taking of life and is not appropriate. The main factor is motivation." Making such ethical decisions is a tremendous personal responsibility, however, and one's motivation is crucially important. Another Tibetan, Lama Thubten Yeshe, once said, "If you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you are creating happiness rather than suffering for a being by killing it, then go ahead. But who, other than a person with a very high level of spiritual realization, can be completely sure?" In the Buddhist perspective, such confidence would require the power to discern other beings' past and future lives, and this ability is rare. The traditional Buddhist view takes into account the happiness of both the unborn fetus and the pregnant woman, not only in this life, but in all future rebirths, and this is beyond the ability of ordinary people to see. I am glad to know that the Dalai Lama and other Buddhist Lamas are keeping an open ear to the debate. Maybe living in India since 1957 does that to a guy. "In the end, most Buddhists recognize the incongruity that exists between ethical theory and actual practice and, while they do not condone the taking of life, do advocate understanding and compassion toward all living beings, a lovingkindness that is nonjudgmental and respects the right and freedom of human beings to make their own choices. " Sat Nam, Dharam Singh Cintron Velez, Gilberto wrote: > Sat Nam Rama Kaur, > > There are several views on this, depending on the spiritual path. > According to Buddhism, the dharma I follow, the 'consciousness' > establishes itself in a fertilized egg. In other words, the new life > begins at the time of conception. > "OUR DESTINY IS TO BE HAPPY" - Yogi Bhajan To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, please send a blank email to Kundaliniyoga NO UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS TO THE LIST PLEASE!> WEB SITE: kundalini yoga KUNDALINI YOGA ON-LINE TRAINING. Details from kundalini yogaclasses.html Transitions to a Heart Centered World - Gururattan K. Khalsa Ph.D. The most comprehensive source of Yogi Bhajan's Kundalini Yoga sets and meditations available! transitions.html Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 - "Cintron Velez, Gilberto" <gilberto.cintron <Kundaliniyoga> Thursday, October 23, 2003 11:47 AM RE: Kundalini Yoga soul enters the body? (and Buddhist thought) > Sat Nam Dharam Ji, > > Thanks a lot for the link, that is a very good article on Buddhist ethics. > You know, I've always wondered why these enlightened beings (Buddhist, Sikh, Hindu, Christians, etc.) don't come to an agreement on these matters. Sometimes I suspect they say different things on purpose, in order to force us to look for the truth by ourselves. The Buddha's last dying words to his disciples were " Be a lamp unto yourselves." > > Best Regards, > Gilberto > Nagarjuna once said "The Buddhas have never spoken in absolutes." There are no absolutes. No one can walk the path but ourselves. Try Nagarjuna. And the Pali Canon. www.gileht.com Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Dearest RaMa Kuar, Your not the only one who has this problem. I too have this desire and have had it for a very long time. For me I would rationalize that it's a planet that grows from the ground and that all things created are good. So why is it that its still an issue for me? I don't know. I just know that I like it and its hard to let go of something that you like to do. I don't think it's a sin as others would classify but I also believe somewhere inside that WE don't need this to advance either. So where does that leave me?? I guess I just need to understand whats important to my growth.. Do I need smoke to hide under or do I need a clear head to think? Its all part of growth, so I would say embrace all the things you do and when you find it doesn't work for your growth and spirit, it will be easy to let go. IM there with you my friend... Stacy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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