self identity

[Guest guest]

Sat nam

Gururattana was talking about finding our true identity in the divine and not in

group consciousness. I feel as though my self image is constantly mirrored back

at me with the message "not good enough." Beyond this, I am so sensitive to the

thoughts and desires of others, I often find myself acting to achieve their

desires instead of and contrary to my own. Nor am I aware, I become so used to

hearing their thoughts in my head , I think they're mine. Until that day when I

wake up - again - as they walk out with my savings, my truck... one particularly

charismatic projector nearly walked out with my life. Yet still I struggle to

learn how to keep others out of my head. And, how to develop inner strength,

self love and confidence so that I am not buffeted about like a kite in a storm.

You are a wonderfully wise person. I am always deeply touched by your insights

Lilananda

west coast, usa

 

 

[Guest guest]

It sounds like you're very aware of your processes and

how you lose power, which is great. May I suggest a

40-day sadhana of Nabhi Kriya as an experiment? it

might surprise you how powerful working on our core

muscles can be in developing the kind of

mental/emotional strength you feel you lack. Anyway,

it changed my life. I might need to do it again!

Ardas

 

--- lavenderk wrote:

 

> Sat nam

> Gururattana was talking about finding our true

> identity in the divine and not in group

> consciousness. I feel as though my self image is

> constantly mirrored back at me with the message "not

> good enough." Beyond this, I am so sensitive to the

> thoughts and desires of others, I often find myself

> acting to achieve their desires instead of and

> contrary to my own. Nor am I aware, I become so used

> to hearing their thoughts in my head , I think

> they're mine. Until that day when I wake up - again

> - as they walk out with my savings, my truck... one

> particularly charismatic projector nearly walked out

> with my life. Yet still I struggle to learn how to

> keep others out of my head. And, how to develop

> inner strength, self love and confidence so that I

> am not buffeted about like a kite in a storm.

> You are a wonderfully wise person. I am always

> deeply touched by your insights

> Lilananda

> west coast, usa

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Lilananda:

 

 

 

You talk about letting others walk away with your stuff. Losing yourself in

others. Do you have a question?

 

 

 

What I am hearing you say is that you are on a journey of self discovery.

 

You don't mention opening up to your heart. Your heart knows your wants. So

that's the first step. Also you have a foundation from which you express

yourself. Some have a very subtle foundation and when they express their

wants, it is done very gently. Others may not recognize them as in general

this culture is hard of hearing and recognizes and rewards go getters rather

the subtle and gentle approaches. So learn to recognize your wants and your

very own way of expression. Honor yourself.

 

 

 

Blessings,

 

Awtar S.

 

Rochester, NY

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear LavenderK

 

This is exactly what has been happening in my life. You would be

surprised to know that thought you have expressed so succinctly has been

haunting me since this morning. I wish Gururattana / Dharam / Pieter and

others will be able to guide us on this.

Theresa

 

Beyond this, I am so sensitive to the thoughts and desires of others, I

often find myself acting to achieve their desires instead of and

contrary to my own. Nor am I aware, I become so used to hearing their

thoughts in my head , I think they're mine. Until that day when I wake

up - again - as they walk out with my savings, my truck... one

particularly charismatic projector nearly walked out with my life. Yet

still I struggle to learn how to keep others out of my head. And, how to

develop inner strength, self love and confidence so that I am not

buffeted about like a kite in a storm.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam LavenderK and Theresa,

it is wonderful that you are now aware and can start making more

supportive and loving choices for yourselves Lifelong emotional

habits can certainly be hard to break but awareness is the first step.

Do you understand where you first learned this relationship dance?

Where you learned to be more sensitive to the thoughts and desires of

others than your own? Yoga and meditation can be a wonderful,

self-loving practice...as long as you don't fall into the same pattern

with a teacher where you are trying to please and be perfect. Yoga and

meditation can also be a wonderful way to get to know yourself and to

start loving yourself. Sometimes though, it is important to love and

value ourselves enough to also seek outside help from people trained

in relationship dynamics and the issues we're dealing with. You may

want to consider therapy as a means to more fully know yourself and

get an outside perspective on your relationship patterns.

 

One little note, we can only be conned by people if we lie to

ourselves already or want very deeply to buy into their lie. (What is

your lie? That you are unlovable? That you need to be perfect to be

loved? That someone perfect will come into your life and make

everything inside of you feel alright? That if you love hard enough

and sacrifice enough that you will be worthy of love? That being a

martyr and sacrificing oneself is an act of ultimate love and

goodness?) It is our own desires that makes people appear charismatic

to us. (For example, these abusive people would not appear emotionally

attractive to people with a healthier sense of self love, and

conversely a healthy loving gentle person will not appear dynamic,

exciting, attractive and "charismatic" to someone with a damaged sense

of self worth.)

 

LavanderK, if this person was physically abusing you please do go and

get counselling so that you can break the cycle of violence. Abusive

relationships are a dynamic that involves both people. You cannot fix

or heal the abuser - that is their work and karma - but you can heal

yourself so that you can make better choices in the future. Please do

not allow yourself to be in a situation where your life is at risk

again. There is only one of you and the universe needs you and loves you.

 

blessings and strength on your journey

ovasoul

 

Kundaliniyoga, "Theresa Francis"

<theresa110 wrote:

>

> Dear LavenderK

>

> This is exactly what has been happening in my life. You would be

> surprised to know that thought you have expressed so succinctly has been

> haunting me since this morning. I wish Gururattana / Dharam / Pieter and

> others will be able to guide us on this.

> Theresa

>

> Beyond this, I am so sensitive to the thoughts and desires of others, I

> often find myself acting to achieve their desires instead of and

> contrary to my own. Nor am I aware, I become so used to hearing their

> thoughts in my head , I think they're mine. Until that day when I wake

> up - again - as they walk out with my savings, my truck... one

> particularly charismatic projector nearly walked out with my life. Yet

> still I struggle to learn how to keep others out of my head. And, how to

> develop inner strength, self love and confidence so that I am not

> buffeted about like a kite in a storm.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sat nam

The question is how to stay centered and aware in self without the intrusion of

other's thoughts and desires. I thought ovasoul had a good question - about

where I learned that I had to do this pleasing to be loved. Upbringing was a

huge influence for me. My behavior was highly regulated.

Lilananda

 

-------------- Original message from <kundalini_yoga:

--------------

 

 

> Dear Lilananda:

> You talk about letting others walk away with your stuff. Losing yourself in >

others. Do you have a question?

>

> What I am hearing you say is that you are on a journey of self discovery.

>

> You don't mention opening up to your heart. Your heart knows your wants.> . So

learn to recognize your wants and your

> very own way of expression. Honor yourself.

Blessings, Awtar S.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Sat nam

This is interesting. I believe that you're right, personal confidence and

strength - those core issues - could use some pumping up. I often feel a

terrible tightness and heat coming up from my stomach when I am feeling

attacked. Then, I just go passive.

I'm going to take your advice on the nabhi kriya.

Lilananda

 

-------------- Original message from Adam Dov Greenberg <spikycork:

--------------

 

 

> It sounds like you're very aware of your processes and

> how you lose power, which is great. May I suggest a

> 40-day sadhana of Nabhi Kriya as an experiment? it

> might surprise you how powerful working on our core

> muscles can be in developing the kind of

> mental/emotional strength you feel you lack. Anyway,

> it changed my life. I might need to do it again!

> Ardas

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear all:

 

 

 

How to not give up on oneself?

 

That is one of the hardest things, isn't it?

 

 

 

We are all here to learn about who we truly are. So rejoice! You're half

there already just knowing that you need to learn about exactly that!

 

 

 

Part of the issue is this habit to serve.

 

Part of it is not knowing what our heart truly wants, or dismissing it, or

diminishing it's importance to ourselves and hoping others will pick up on

it so we don't have to fight for ourselves, right?

 

 

 

Something I am discovering is this. I just read a paragraph in a book called

automatic millionaires. The advice in the paragraph I was reading suggested

to always pay yourself first. Meaning you get a check, give yourself 10% to

save for your retirement or something special for you. Give yourself this

10% before you pay your bills, your taxes. creditors included. You may think

this is just a game. You think you may know this intellectually, but not

really! After you start this practice you will start feeling your self worth

in a whole new way!

 

 

 

You see, what happens is that if you don't pay yourself first, you send the

message that "you" matters less than others. And the message is heard

energetically and people feel they have the right to leave with your stuff.

"You won't care anyway!"

 

 

 

This is a step that you can take without much effort. You can even have this

10% taken off your paycheck in most work places and placed in a specific

account of yours, a retirement act or investments, so you don't even have to

be disciplined about saving it!

 

 

 

Then it's about being in the moment. Whereever you are, the universe is in

creation around everyone's needs. Most of us need to discover who we are and

so we meet people and are placed in situations to learn just that! So be

present to what is happening. I know someone who's always concerned about

why a woman friend of his is acting the way she is. He just realized he does

not enjoy the moment he has with her, because he always thinks about the

future. Become aware of how you respond to difficulties you encounter: for

instance you want to run away from something. Ask yourself if it is running

away from something that you need to learn or running away from something

that's truly not for you. Like this man who left his wife as soon as she

gave birth. Then he left his new girlfriend when she asked for more

intimacy. Until his next girlfriend asked for more intimacy and then he got

it: he was running away from something. He could make a different choice

this time.

 

 

 

Don't worry about things lost in the past, or opportunities missed. New

opportunities come all the time according to what you need right now. The

universe gives infinitely. Don't worry about things stolen from you.

Spiritual teachers tell us that nobody can steal what's truly ours. When you

lose something that you really miss, ask yourself what that feeling is, what

do you really miss. Why don't you need that object in your life right now.

and therefore who are you now that you don't have these belongings, or these

people around you?

 

 

 

So one step at a time you discover who you are. Make it a fun ride, no

matter what happens, it's a source of self discovery! Do it with innocence

and grace and laughter!

 

 

 

Blessings, Awtar S.

 

Rochester, NY

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Lilananda and Lavander,

 

 

 

Sat Nam, sweet ladies. You speak for many, many women. (and some men too)

All the responses have been very useful and wise. Your spiritual process is

to reclaim your will for yourself. I do hope you are reading my New

Millennium Being e-zines. Capricorn began this topic, Aquarius continued.

And Pisces will be sent out tomorrow or Wed. (Go to www.yogatech.com ezine

button for back issues and to .)

 

 

 

It is definitely a good idea to do Nabhi Kriya or other abdominal sets.

Personal identity is established in the lower 3 chakras. When they are not

strong and we reside in our head, we get lost. Also archer pose and frog

pose would be good. Work on getting in your body and feeling all your

sensations INSIDE YOUR SKIN.

 

 

 

The basic issue here is RELATIONSHIP. Your basic relationship is with

someone or something external to yourself. You listen outside yourself and

use that information to make your decisions. So this is what you must

shift. You will have to monitor yourself very closely. Who am I listening

to? Why am I listening to this other person? Ovasoul listed some very

fundamental questions which can help guide your self questioning.

 

 

 

Your goal is to have your basic relationship with yourself and the Divine.

So you must gently and lovingly cultivate this relationship. The more you

are in your body, the more you will feel your own feelings and they will

guide you. The anxiety in the stomach will tell you that you need to listen

to yourself. You will always know what you need to do and what is best for

you. I repeat - you always know! You just have to listen to yourself and

pay attention. Then you have to have the guts to follow your own inner

guidance. Actually it feels really great to stay NO to the other voices and

YES to your own voice.

 

 

 

All this takes practice, practice, practice. Do you have a daily KY and

meditation practice? If not start today - at least 30 minutes every day

before you leave the house and 20 minutes in the evening. This is your time

for you. YOU and YOU are going to be together with no one else. When other

voices come in tell them later (much later!)

 

 

 

You are very aware already. This is a bonus. You will do well. I look

forward to hearing about your progress.

 

 

Blessings,

 

Gururattana

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam Lilananda,

and thank you for sharing with me your birthday info. In this Binary medium

it gives us something more to work with.

 

lavenderk wrote:

 

Sat nam

Gururattana was talking about finding our true identity in the divine

and not in group consciousness.

 

Just to clarify, or to inquire, it is the idea of "identity" that we need

to refine. Does that come from an outside source or institution and are we

defined by that identity or role? Or can we have that identity, or role, and

still know our depth, all of our G.O.D. given capacities as sovereign

individuals WITHIN our communities, whatever it is. Because it is often

through awareness of the needs of others that we can become more aware of

our own needs, and vice verse. Certainly in a Piscean model there is alot of

trouble where our initial identity as a SOUL is quickly overwritten with

our roles of gender, race, religion and political affiliation. This neglect

of the Soul is corrupt by definition. We become dense, hulking Neanderthals

without any semblance of culture or civilization. Not much heart in that, if

you ask me.

 

I feel as though my self image is constantly mirrored back at me with

the message "not good enough."

 

You have every bit the same right as any other person to be here. This is

issue of "not good enough" is one of self esteem that comes from a "weak"

solar plexus and navel center (the Third Body). You are tuned into the

collective subconscious and are very sensitive but in a way that overwhelms

you. You are not only working on your own stuff but you are also processing

other people's stuff (and perhaps a past life or two). When these centers

are "toned", you can be incredibly psychic and knowing. There is plenty of

Kundalini Yoga for this. On the interpersonal front the way to avoid the

extra work from others (and also integrate your Yoga experience) is not to

try and push anyone away but to actually "serve" them. Numerologically

speaking, you are at peace with your Soul (the Fourth Body) when you are

neutral, yogic, open and dare I say, serviceful. Open and serviceful in the

sense that instead of passing judgment OR being in blissful denial about

things, you have the option of providing the space for others to focus and

sort through their action(s). (This doesn't mean you forget about your

annoyance, by the way, but you use it to motivate yourself to action and

taking a neutral stance). Just get them to focus through "poking". Ask

them questions about about how or what they think or feel while giving them

the space through your neutrality/heartspace to respond. This will take a

little courage and humor can help. Just give that space as much as you can -

be humble and listen. The dynamic will change. Through this action you will

no longer be a doormat or feel abused because of your open and available

heart. It's a Win-Win situation. They get them to focus and they have a

opportunity to represent themself and you get to be of a sevadar (one who

gives self-lessly. This approach will free you up an awful lot and give you

a sense of being of value. Yogi Bhajan would call it Poke, Provoke,

Confront and Elevate. He was a Ten in his Path and so didn't take any

prisoners. Make adjustments according to your individual Path number and

temperament.

One thing people subconsciously get from you is that you are Excellent (Deep

Foundation of Eleven) in that you take what you are given and make it much

more. You are the most reliable and trustworthy type of person there is.

Subconsciously they know you will always be accountable and do the right

thing ultimately, but they do expect, subconsciously to be elevated. Are you

teaching, yet?? [Hint] You are a teacher and you do it by example (Path of

Five). You also have the the Gift of the Sixth Body. People feel safe just

blurting out stuff to you because on the level of heart, they feel like you

already know them. This is good if you are a counselor and can then tell

them that the hour is over and now it's time to pay.

 

As far as the rest of us Yogis and Yoginis, because we are clearing

ourselves there is a vacuum that wants to be filled. We feel our own grief

but we are very much confronted by how much others are in various states of

unawareness. This can be excruciating at times to bear witness to. It's why

we need to stick together, do White Tantric, go to Solstice's and Teacher's

Trainings and, in general, nurture and support each other in our process and

evolution. It's easy enough to backslide and reach for the Haagen Daz

instead of Guru Ram Das. That's what community or sangat is good for, at

its best.

This Group does this for many of us and I personally am glad you all are

there, even the lurkers.

Sat Nam,

Dharam Singh

Millis, MA

 

Beyond this, I am so sensitive to the thoughts and desires of others,

I often find myself acting to achieve their desires instead of and

contrary to my own. Nor am I aware, I become so used to hearing their

thoughts in my head , I think they're mine. Until that day when I wake

up - again - as they walk out with my savings, my truck... one

particularly charismatic projector nearly walked out with my life. Yet

still I struggle to learn how to keep others out of my head. And, how

to develop inner strength, self love and confidence so that I am not

buffeted about like a kite in a storm.

You are a wonderfully wise person. I am always deeply touched by your insights

Lilananda

west coast, usa