japji pronounciation

[Guest guest]

Any suggestions for learning the correct pronunciations for japji? I printed out

the romanized

version of the gurmukhi, and I've been singing along to a nice cd by Mata Mandir

Singh. But

I'm not sure of some of the pronunciations :

 

for example, in "gaavai ko taan, hovai kisai taan" is the first word pronounced

"gaavay"

because it sounds that way. But if this were the case, why didn't they write

"gaavay" on the

transliteration because the "ay" appears other places like "karay". Thoughts?

 

Thanks

Brian

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam Brian

personally I like "Bani Pro", I like the pace & find

the pronunciation to be very clear...out of the ones I

have, its my favorite (:

in loving kindness

Jiwan Shakti Kaur

Tampa FL

 

 

 

> Any suggestions for learning the correct

> pronunciations for japji?

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Kundaliniyoga, "nitawabrian" <nitawabrian

wrote:

>

> Any suggestions for learning the correct pronunciations for japji?

I printed out the romanized

> version of the gurmukhi, and I've been singing along to a nice cd

by Mata Mandir Singh. But

> I'm not sure of some of the pronunciations :

>

> for example, in "gaavai ko taan, hovai kisai taan" is the first

word pronounced "gaavay"

> because it sounds that way. But if this were the case, why didn't

they write "gaavay" on the

> transliteration because the "ay" appears other places like "karay".

Thoughts?

>

> Thanks

> Brian

>

 

Many caucasians pronounce what is transliterated as "ai" as "ay" and

then pronounce "ay" the same way. Nearly everyone in my Gurdwara does

so.

 

There might be regional dialects involved because on tapes of sikh

prayers and kirtan, some Punjabi Sikhs DO pronounce the "ai" very

much like "ay" while others do not.

 

 

According to several written sources I have studied, including my

Nitnem (book of the daily Sikh prayers, or "banis") which has

extensive discussion of Gurmukhi pronounciations, the vowel

tranliterated as "ai" should be pronounced so as to rhyme with

the "a" in English words "rat,bat," and "mat."

 

 

In some instances (but not all!) it should also end in a nasalized

sound, venting some of the air up through the nose at the end of

making the vowel sound - which might be where some people are getting

the idea of an "ay" sound - because hearing that nasal ending puts a

kind of higher pitch sound to it. Some of the better transliterations

will show when the nasal sound is expected by transliterating the

vowel as "ain" instead of just "ai." The Nitnem I was speaking of

does that.

 

I think if you try to make the sound of a bumble bee you will be

making a very nasal sound so then if you say the "a" sound from the

word "rat" and end it with that nasal sound it starts to sound a

little more like "ay."

 

I hope this helps!

 

And if any proficient Gurmukhi readers/speakers can clarify this even

further, or correct anything I might be wrong about, I would truly

love to hear it!

Nam Hari Kaur, Eugene OR

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam, Brian,

 

Based on my limited study and experience, here are some thoughts that

might help.

 

Some musical versions of Japji, and of other banis, are wonderful for

getting most of the pronunciation correct but can be a bit sloppy, so

to speak, when it comes to the details. And a transliteration can be

confusing if you're using one with no explanation of what sounds

correspond correctly to various letter groupings, including word

endings. I have a little red velvet-covered volume called "Sacred

Nitnem" which has a pronunciation guide. It says that AI is to be

pronounced as the A in the English word SAT and that AY is to be

pronounced as the A in the English word SAY. So the first is more of

a short, clipped, "eh" sound while the second is an elongated long vowel.

 

This is also what I was taught at the Japji courses I attended in

Espanola, NM.

 

So, no, gavai should not sound like karay, but on some recordings it

will. It can be difficult to make those shorter sounds when singing

because the natural tendency is to slide one word or note into the

next. If you hear a recording that is more strictly a chant rather

than a lyrical melody, you will hear the distinction more easily.

 

I personally recommend Guru Raj Kaur Khalsa's 2 cd set of Japji. She

has studied and chanted for many, many years and her pronunciation is

right on the mark. Except, of course for the instances in which

others pronounce a few sounds differently and say that "either way is

acceptable." :-) But "gavai", as I've been taught, is not one of

those exceptions.

 

I first learned Japji from Mata Mandir Singh's cd -- it was what got

me started down the road of chanting in Gurmukhi. It is a beautiful

piece, isn't it?

 

Blessings,

Nirvair Kaur

 

 

Kundaliniyoga, "nitawabrian" <nitawabrian

wrote:

>

> Any suggestions for learning the correct pronunciations for japji? I

printed out the romanized

> version of the gurmukhi, and I've been singing along to a nice cd by

Mata Mandir Singh. But

> I'm not sure of some of the pronunciations :

>

> for example, in "gaavai ko taan, hovai kisai taan" is the first word

pronounced "gaavay"

> because it sounds that way. But if this were the case, why didn't

they write "gaavay" on the

> transliteration because the "ay" appears other places like "karay".

Thoughts?

>

> Thanks

> Brian

>