Guest guest Posted December 6, 2000 Report Share Posted December 6, 2000 Hi. As the one who started this thread, I would like to weigh in for a moment. This discussion did indeed begin on another site, but, since those participants were not AMma devotees, they could not comment on Her relation to this. So, I inquired into this group, to see if anyone knew the truth about it. In turn, someone asked me about the allegations, and I responded by posting the text from India Today to share this. I have been seeing Amma since 1989; I have met many a Sai Baba devotee at the Ashram in India as well. My concern in all of this is the truth only. I have nothing against gurus myself. It is of course a very difficult matter to speak about, since there is always a faction which thinks that to question the guru is to engage in impious action, and shows the lack of devotion. There is also another faction, however, who thinks that you must not bury your head in the sand, however uncomfortable. This is not my grasping at one scant account of abuse, but being myself struck by it; it is being taken seriously by major world organizations, and was the cover story of India Today. To all I may have offended, I would say perhaps it is you who are lacking in faith, the faith that you can ask intelligent questions about the guru and have faith that they will sustain your faith in the end. To be too afraid to ask a question might imply you don't have sufficient faith the guru can pass it. At least find out the facts, as best one can, and then have faith to venture into the question. Have faith the truth will support the guru, but ask the question. By the way, Osho's group was guilty of attempted murder, and they were guilty. He was a flawed guru. Amma will tell you that. I do not believe that Amma and Sai Baba are on the same path; She does truly seem impeccable. No rumors have ever circulated about Her, of any import. I believe he is flawed. I am not sure why Amma has sent anyone to him, and it does bother me a bit. To be honest, it does shake me up and I cannot reconcile it in my mind. I would like Amma to respond to this issue, and I trust that Her response would ring true, but I don 't know how. Bala, maybe it is time for two e-groups: one censored by you for the group of "true believers" who are offended by any intelligent questions, and one unmoderated for the rest of us, who are devotees and who are struggling with the truth. Let people decide to be in one or both. Or, is that too threatening? I think it would be fair to all, without stifling all discussion. Some people need to discuss their conflicts with others, and should not have to be ostracized and unwelcome. These are my thoughts anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2000 Report Share Posted December 6, 2000 Greetings, I came to this site to immerses myself in Amma, to share the stories and learn and to instigate deeper levels of awareness of Her, and Her place in my journey. I am not judging those that need to follow these rumors, to seek clarity in what confuses them, I am just saying this is not my path. I am also new to this list, and perhaps it is time for me to bow out and return when the dust settles. My own personal experience with both Baba and Amma preclude rumors sticking to either one of Them, and yes, She does send people to work with Him; She tossed me over to Him like a frisbee for two years after which He tossed me back! He is Divinity incarnate and when I hear rumors about any Master, Mother included, I just wonder who got thrown out of the ashram and meditate on why these Masters allow these rumors to exist because TO BE SURE Their hand mark is present in the allowing these words to circulate. I shall for now since I have little time to read all the posts of the lists that I am on, and I will be back later when the rumor stuff is finished !! Om Namah Shivaya. Lesley* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2000 Report Share Posted December 6, 2000 Om Amriteswarayai Namah! I agree with Bala and others who ask that such slanderous and malicious things about Masters not be included in this forum. I personally believe Sai Baba is a divine incarnation, and this is based entirely on my experience of him. Just so we can all have a perspective, sadly Amma has been accused of terrible things over time, but thankfully(!) we have not lost faith. Similarly, there are those who were stanch devotees who have lost their faith in her. And about Sai Baba's books in the library. There is a large section of Sai Baba's books in the San Ramon ashram's public library. Also, when attending a talk by Swami Ramakrishna, he referred to Sai Baba as a Master. Much love to my dear brothers and sisters. At Her Feet, Bhavani --- Ammachi wrote: > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > Ammachi- > > > ------ > > There are 9 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. RE: Digest Number 108 > "Donn Koh" <kysdonn > 2. Re: Digest Number 109 > "Balakrishnan Shankar" > <balakrishnan_sh > 3. Re: Digest Number 108 > kalima <kalima > 4. Re: Digest Number 109 > "Ravi Chivukula" > <ravichivukula > 5. Re: Digest Number 109 > "Ravi Chivukula" > <ravichivukula > 6. Re: Digest Number 109 > sprose1 > 7. RE: Digest Number 109 > "Donn Koh" <kysdonn > 8. Re: Digest Number 109 > adarl52357 > 9. Re: Digest Number 109 > awolfwatches > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 1 > Tue, 5 Dec 2000 22:59:57 +0800 > "Donn Koh" <kysdonn > RE: Digest Number 108 > > Om Namah Shivaya > > I don't know what has been said about Sri Satya Sai > Baba(recently) but I > would like to highlight that Sai Baba has been > mentioned in the book - Mata > Amritanandamayi (Life and Experiences of Devotees) > published by Mata Amritanandamayi Trust. > > One para on page 230 is as follows: > > Radha Bai, who hails from Calicut, was an ardent > devotee of Sri Satya Sai > Baba. On 23rd January, 1985 at night she had a > dream. Sri Satya Sai Baba > along with another holy woman dressed in pure white > clothes appeared to > her. Both of them were standing in front of a big > house. Pointing to the > holy woman, Baba told her "You must go and see this > Mother."......(which she > did) > > In another story.....in the same book.....on page > 235 / 236 there is another > storynarrated by one Mr P.O. > Narayan Nambiar who hail from calicut, one of the > three major cities in > Kerala, narrates hisexperience as follows: "Being a > devotee of Lord > Krishna............It was in the year 1960 when the > following incident > occured.........I had a dream in which I saw a big > hall with a courtyard > infront of it...........There I saw two figures; one > was that of a holy man > wearing a bright orange gown, with a mop of tight > curly hair. the other was > a holy woman dressed in white who made a sign with > her right hand beckoning > me to follow them. the holy man neither looked at me > nor gestured.......two > years later.....I discovered that the holy man was > Sri Satya Sai baba of > Puttaparthi. Another twenty years passed before on > the 26th of January, 1985 > I realised that the holy woman whom I saw in the > dream was Mata > Amritanandamayi....... > > Question: If what has been discussed is > true....which I doubted.....then > won't it be seen that Amma is to be associated with > Baba....at least in > dreams? > > Jai Ma! > Karuno > > > > sprose1 [sprose1] > Tuesday, December 05, 2000 8:23 AM > Ammachi > Re: Digest Number 108 > > > Hey. > > Does anybody know if it is true that Ammachi had all > the books refering to > Sai Baba burned? I am sure everyone is aware that > Baba has been charged > with > pederasty, and has been at it for years. Sorry to > say, but we must face > facts, right? > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > Ammachi- > > > > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 2 > Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:16:24 -0500 > "Balakrishnan Shankar" > <balakrishnan_sh > Re: Digest Number 109 > > Hi > > Please let us not post anything against any Living ( > or Non Living) Master > here. Let this egroup be a forum where people focus > on Amma and Love God and > see the good in all. This is NOT the place to > discuss the pros and cons of > other Gurus . > > > And as an aside, i have to say that many many Sai > devotees are Amma devotees > too, and Sai Baba has sent people to Amma and VICE > VERSA, and She gave a > mantra to a friend of mine ( who loves BOTH Sai and > Amma and who is very > close to Her and constantly is helping people etc) > that was 'applicable to > both' ( what he was told by a swami). > > Also, many Sai devotees were the ones who helped > Amma's first tour- Timothy > Conway who wrote the beautiful book 'Women of Power > and Grace' mentions this > and is a Sai devotee. > > I personally have been helped by Baba through dreams > afew times in > 'crisis' points- and even though Amma is my Guru and > my Pathway , I remain > grateful for the advice. > > I used to attend Sai centers regularly as much as > Amma bhajans, and not once > did i come across any teaching that was > contradictory to Amma and some of my > best friends are Sai devotees who spend their energy > and time in so much > Seva. > > We cannot judge any Mahatma, and we cannot ascertain > whether rumours are > true.- and if i may add, it is none of our business. > > We are here to see the GOOD in all, and please do > not mention anything > against any Guru here. Many may be offended. > > Our business is to Love Amma, Love all and do > sadhana. > > Forgive me if i sound strong, but yes i cant help > it. Wjile i too have been > saddened by these rumors , i know for a fact that > Amma has sent some people > === message truncated === Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2000 Report Share Posted December 6, 2000 Hi Thought i'll forward this here- it contains the beautiful story of Amma and the rabid dog: bala (this was posted by a devotee on the other amma list.) Here are some notes from Swami R's talk last Friday night at San Rafael. My apologies in advance for any mistakes. If anyone who was there sees any inaccuracies, please e-mail Amma Net: During Amma's speech at the UN she referred to the idea that those things that cannot be obtained through force, violence or war, can be obtained easily through love. This has indeed been the case in Amma's life. For instance, when she returned to Amritapuri after the UN speech she was acclaimed by so many of the locals (many of whom had severely criticized her over the years). Crowds of locals showered her path as she approached the ashram, with flower petals. It took her over four hours through the crowds to go just a few miles to the ashram. Many of the local people lit oil lamps in their homes as a sign of respect for Amma. This was a miraculous turnaround from all their negativity and violence in the past towards Mother and the ashram. This tremendous love of Amma's nourishes our minds and souls. Through it we are able to overcome any number of negativities, fears, addictions and habits. For example, when Amma comes on tour, we often feel we don't need as much food or sleep as when she is not close by. Amma's love completely transforms us. Amma was asked at the UN, "If you were given the chance to be in charge of the world and could be anything you wanted, what would you want to be?" She replied that she wanted to be a "sweeper" and sweep clean the minds of her children (to purify them). When Ramakrishnananda Swami first came to Mother, his parents were very much against it. This was a tremendous conflict for him. The parents gave him a talisman to wear around his neck and did vedic chants so he would leave the ashram. Amma told Swami R to just wear the pendant, she would take care of it. Over time, Swami R's parents were impressed that no big change had occurred as a result of him wearing the pendant and they surmised that it must be that Amma's power was greater than that of the pendant, so they became devotees of Amma as well. The power of love is limitless - as is God! This is also shown in Amma's life. Once there was a rabid dog at Amritapuri. The dog bit several people and so the villagers were chasing it to kill the dog. The dog returned to the ashram and was frothing at the mouth, so some residents were shouting that it should be killed. Amma came out of her hut and walked right over to the rabid dog and called out "Mone, mone" (my son, my son). But some ashramites were afraid Amma would get bitten and would become violently ill. However, Amma simply started stroking the dog and asked some residents to bring her some food from the kitchen. She fed the dog with her own hands. She got some froth on her hands and they still worried she would become infected. When the dog was done, Amma ate the remainder of the dog's food. The dog died soon thereafter and it is said that that dog was liberated from future births due to Mother's compassionate and loving actions. In the yoga sutra of Patanjali, it is said that even ferocious animals will give up their ferocity in the presence of a real master. In this world, most people will reject you if you do 99 good deeds but do just 1 bad one. For Amma the opposite is true. She will accept us if we do just one good deed out of a hundred! For a well-trained horse, even the shadow of the whip will make it do what the master wants. But we are not this steadfast. So Amma is here to guide us in life. Giving to other people is at the heart of spirituality. In this regard, there are 4 attitudes in life that the Hindu scriptures say we should take on: 1) If we give to others, we should always have the feeling that we want to give more. 2) We should not be egoistic in our giving to others. 3) We should give with a feeling of modesty. 4) We should give with the knowledge that actually we are giving to ourselves, since there is only ONE consciousness - no separation between us and our fellows. Amma has said that she wants her life to be like an incense stick. The incense stick gives and gives a sweet and strong fragrance - on and on until it just burns out. She wants her last act in this body to be consoling one of her children. ++++++ Again, my apologies if I've misrepresented something Swami Ramakrishnananda said - please correct. I'm sorry my notes are a little sketchy but I thought you would want a flavor of what was said. At Amma's Feet, Amritanand ______________________________\ _____ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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