Digest Number 111

December 7, 2000

Dear SProse,

Thanks for your mail. I quite agree with you- however i have to say that

i do NOT want or intend to censor anything - i merely thought that

discussion of other Masters is irrelevant here. I was also merely 'posting '

my thoughts.

However i agree the tone i wrote in was strong , and if i came across as

'censorial' I do sincerely apologise. It is just i feel strongly about

keeping focus on Amma/God.. but i may be wrong , because after all we seek

the Truth and anything that needs to be discussed to enable people to clear

their doubts may need to be discussed.

i do understand that there are common devotees and that these things need to

be discussed somewhere so that all can be helped at finding the Truth.

BUT as you say Amma is impeccable, so why worry about anyone else?

Also it is very difficult to understand these Masters.

As far as Amma mentioning Baba to people- the incidents i have may sound

trivial but we could discuss that off-line.

thanks,

bala

>Message: 5

> Wed, 6 Dec 2000 17:48:01 EST

> sprose1

>Re: Digest Number 110

>

>Hi.

>

>As the one who started this thread, I would like to weigh in for a moment.

>This discussion did indeed begin on another site, but, since those

>participants were not AMma devotees, they could not comment on Her

>relation

>to this. So, I inquired into this group, to see if anyone knew the truth

>about it. In turn, someone asked me about the allegations, and I responded

>by posting the text from India Today to share this. I have been seeing

>Amma

>since 1989; I have met many a Sai Baba devotee at the Ashram in India as

>well. My concern in all of this is the truth only. I have nothing against

>gurus myself.

>

>It is of course a very difficult matter to speak about, since there is

>always

>a faction which thinks that to question the guru is to engage in impious

>action, and shows the lack of devotion. There is also another faction,

>however, who thinks that you must not bury your head in the sand, however

>uncomfortable. This is not my grasping at one scant account of abuse, but

>being myself struck by it; it is being taken seriously by major world

>organizations, and was the cover story of India Today.

>

>To all I may have offended, I would say perhaps it is you who are lacking

>in

>faith, the faith that you can ask intelligent questions about the guru and

>have faith that they will sustain your faith in the end. To be too afraid

>to

>ask a question might imply you don't have sufficient faith the guru can

>pass

>it. At least find out the facts, as best one can, and then have faith to

>venture into the question. Have faith the truth will support the guru, but

>ask the question. By the way, Osho's group was guilty of attempted murder,

>and they were guilty. He was a flawed guru. Amma will tell you that. I do

>not believe that Amma and Sai Baba are on the same path; She does truly

>seem

>impeccable. No rumors have ever circulated about Her, of any import. I

>believe he is flawed. I am not sure why Amma has sent anyone to him, and

>it

>does bother me a bit. To be honest, it does shake me up and I cannot

>reconcile it in my mind. I would like Amma to respond to this issue, and I

>trust that Her response would ring true, but I don 't know how.

>

>Bala, maybe it is time for two e-groups: one censored by you for the group

>of

>"true believers" who are offended by any intelligent questions, and one

>unmoderated for the rest of us, who are devotees and who are struggling

>with

>the truth. Let people decide to be in one or both. Or, is that too

>threatening? I think it would be fair to all, without stifling all

>discussion. Some people need to discuss their conflicts with others, and

>should not have to be ostracized and unwelcome. These are my thoughts

>anyhow.

>

______________________________\

_____

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December 7, 2000

Sisters and Brothers in Amma,

I am relatively new to this list, but not so new to another Amma listserve.

I had to jump in at this point in the discussion about Satya Sai Baba. I've

been having a lot of reactions and feelings to the discussion, but I won't

go into most of them now. I want to talk to some of my Sai devotee friends

and do some investigating on my own, as time permits.

Long story short I must agree with Bala. If the purpose of this list is

discussion among Amma devotees about inspirational experiences, then the

discussion about Sai Baba that has gone on recently doesn't fit into that

purview. This is an Amma list, not a Baba list. Also, these are serious

charges that have been posted. Charges like this are difficult to sift

through in an e-mail setting I think. Nevertheless, I simply feel this

forum is not the place to discuss these rumors.

In addition, I don't think it was the best idea to have a news story

containing descriptions of sexual acts posted on a site like this where

those under 18 might have access.

Also, I don't feel anyone was trying to set himself up as a censor. We had

this discussion at the other Amma site about what types of things are

appropriate to put on the e-mails - so I think it's a valid point - we can't

include all types of discussions on this listserve - we have to be pretty

narrowly defined to Amma-related topics I feel. It is not our job here to

get at the heart of the matter about a Sai Baba situation. Those who want

more clarity should go to Amma about it. And I agree with Kalima, we must

first and foremost pray in communion with the Satya Sai community.

Thanks for listening.

At Her Lotus Feet,

Amritanand

Balakrishnan Shankar [balakrishnan_sh]

Thursday, December 07, 2000 7:34 AM

Ammachi

Re: Digest Number 111