Digest Number 112

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/8/00 12:39:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,

Ammachi writes:

 

<<

i hope Amma (for whom i have the greatest respect) has not been

endorsing sai baba. if so, she needs to be told the evidence about

this man, and warned.

>>

 

 

 

Powerful post, young man. I am sure you just offended 99% of those on this

list, but what of that. It is not your intention, at bottom. There is one

point on which I think you miss the import, and I quoted this above. It is

why I brought the matter to this forum, actually. I am not so much

interested in Mr. Baba than I am in Amma. I know that She has regularly sent

devotees to him; one poster posted that in this thread, if you have not seen

it. No one should have to inform Amma about the allegations of Her fellow

South Indian Guru. I mean, do you really think that you, or anyone, is in a

postion to inform the Guru of what She ought to know already? Could She not

know his character? She would have to have known it and referred people

anyway. It is a fact that strikes one in the face and calls out for an

answer. It is one thing to ignore him; that I could understand (almost) as a

kind of non-interference among Gurus: a sort of Guru ethic. But, She goes

further than that, and actively sends devotees to see him, and does not warn

people that he is a defective Guru. She has made qualifying criticisms of

other Gurus: fact. Yet, with S. Baba, She refrains. Why? How could She not

know???She, who can look at a photo and size up people? This is the

question. I am sorry for offending others, if that is what this post does,

but it is too late for me. It is already an issue for me. I still have

faith in Amma, but it is under stress right now. For me to do otherwise

would be for me to divide off part of me (my discriminating intellect and

moral integrity) so that my feeling-self can exist untouched. That would be

blind faith. I would always be confused that way, and running from a dark

doubt.

[Guest guest]

Last night I read the email with all the links and I felt so sick. My stomach

hurt and

my attidude changed. My husband asked me what was wrong when he came home from

work and

I told him I was thinking about something. I didnt want to share something I

didn't

know to be true.

 

I longed to go sick by the ocean and just talk with Mother. But it was so cold

out and

my son needed me. As I lay nursing him thinking a hundred thoughts a minute it

felt like

someone had put thier hand on my back and was rubbing it. Then it felt like a

hug. My

mind cleared and I heard "all things will show themselves little one. Don't

worry about

it so. Listen to the teachings and follow your heart." I have this feeling of

some

one being in the room with me often and belive it is Amma. It has been gone

awhile and I

think my tears called to her.

 

I know I was afraid to follow Amma. To get into what she had to say and teach.

I had

heard stories of different Gurus and the horrible things they have done to

people. I

myself was in a cult many years ago that just tore at my whole set of beliefs

and my

self esteem. So it has taken me time to come around I guess you could say. I am

not very

good at words. So all this started brining up some past hurt.

 

We could all go back and forth wondering. We could ask Amma. I know that last

night in

my tears she told me not to worry and to focus on what I know to be true and the

love

she has for all of us. Amma is my spiritual mother and I trust my life and soul

to her.

It only took being in the same room with her last year to know she was real. To

know she

would never do anything to hurt me. To know that she is love itself. In her

embrace I

felt like I had gone into the womb of the goddess and been reborn.

 

The information has been put out there and each person needs to make thier own

choice of

what to do with it.

 

In Amma's Divine Love,

Shelly

[Guest guest]

Dear Shelly,

 

Mother gave you some very good advice last night, and thank you very much for

sharing it

with us. It put my mind at rest.

 

In Mother's love,

Prasadini

 

kalima wrote:

 

> Last night I read the email with all the links and I felt so sick. My stomach

hurt and

> my attidude changed. My husband asked me what was wrong when he came home

from work and

> I told him I was thinking about something. I didnt want to share something I

didn't

> know to be true.

>

> I longed to go sick by the ocean and just talk with Mother. But it was so

cold out and

> my son needed me. As I lay nursing him thinking a hundred thoughts a minute it

felt like

> someone had put thier hand on my back and was rubbing it. Then it felt like a

hug. My

> mind cleared and I heard "all things will show themselves little one. Don't

worry about

> it so. Listen to the teachings and follow your heart." I have this feeling

of some

> one being in the room with me often and belive it is Amma. It has been gone

awhile and I

> think my tears called to her.

>

> I know I was afraid to follow Amma. To get into what she had to say and teach.

I had

> heard stories of different Gurus and the horrible things they have done to

people. I

> myself was in a cult many years ago that just tore at my whole set of beliefs

and my

> self esteem. So it has taken me time to come around I guess you could say. I

am not very

> good at words. So all this started brining up some past hurt.

>

> We could all go back and forth wondering. We could ask Amma. I know that last

night in

> my tears she told me not to worry and to focus on what I know to be true and

the love

> she has for all of us. Amma is my spiritual mother and I trust my life and

soul to her.

> It only took being in the same room with her last year to know she was real.

To know she

> would never do anything to hurt me. To know that she is love itself. In her

embrace I

> felt like I had gone into the womb of the goddess and been reborn.

>

> The information has been put out there and each person needs to make thier own

choice of

> what to do with it.

>

> In Amma's Divine Love,

> Shelly

>

>

> Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!

>

> Ammachi-

[Guest guest]

No, this post doesn't offend me - it touches my heart

bigtime. You've hit the nail on the head. This issue

of faith is really at the core of being on a spiritual

path. Nothing can be more painful to a devotee than a

challenge to faith. It's even painful to those who

witness someone else's pain of doubt. I guess that's

why people get so upset if they believe a guru is

messing with and misleading the devotees. Some things

seem beyond average human discrimination - maybe

that's why we are told to pray. Shelley disclosed

that intense prayer brought her some relief - even

though it did not bring distinct answers to some of

these questions. I really think we're going to be

subject to tests of faith in these times more than we

have for centuries - millennia, maybe.

It's very scary that we may not get tidy answers to

some questions. And we are really, really alone in

working through this -unless we are fortunate enough

to feel the presence or an answer from God in some

form. Certainly support, or comfort, or advice can be

offered, but decisions are for the individual. All we

can do is give ourselves enough time and space to

consider all the angles and all the issues, and pray,

pray, pray. And consider occupying all possible

frames of mind, and the fact that our earth-bred, and

hemisphere-bred and country-bred notions of how things

should be have little to do with the Divine Reality,

and that there is only balance and justice in the

cosmos - it can't be otherwise - and that the whole

picture may not be contained in this one snap-shot of

our lifetime.

 

I hope I haven't offended - appeared to diminish or

twist anyone's genuine experience. I think these

particular issues - challenges to faith, and the pain

of uncertainty - are definitely valid issues for this

list. I confess to discomfort with some of the

exchanges that have occurred, because I'm not sure we

are qualified to encourage anyone to abandon their

faith in anything. You can see why. It's sooo much

pain. References to links, rather than blaring the

worst into someone's face or email box, could be a

more loving encouragement to explore what's out there

if one is truly concerned for fellow seekers. Of

course these things are based on concern, but everyone

needs to take their own time to explore how they feel

about what they encounter, to find for themselves what

feels like truth, without criticism for not jumping to

the same opinion as some immediately or ever.

 

Amma says - from the latest Matruvani - that intellect

and reason are necessary, but gives this analogy (I

quote): "Modern people say that love and faith are

blind. They believe in logic and intelligence. But,

Amma says logic is blind - for life will wither away

if it is filled only with rationalism. Therefore, we

should have eyes only for love and faith...that is why

Amma says that life exists on love and faith.

Cow-dung and other manure should be put at the base of

the rose plant. Please don't destroy the plant that

fills the atmosphere with fragrance by adding the

manure at the top - please don't kill its beauty and

fragrance. Use rationalism and intelligence in the

proper place. Don't let them destroy the love and

faith which add fragrance and beauty to life - please

don't let this happen. This is what Amma has to say."

 

Sorry for the long, long post - but at least part of

it is quoted from Amma...

love,

Nigama

 

--- sprose1 wrote:

> In a message dated 12/8/00 12:39:32 PM Eastern

> Standard Time,

> Ammachi writes:

>

> <<

> i hope Amma (for whom i have the greatest respect)

> has not been

> endorsing sai baba. if so, she needs to be told the

> evidence about

> this man, and warned.

> >>

>

>

>

> Powerful post, young man. I am sure you just

> offended 99% of those on this

> list, but what of that. It is not your intention, at

> bottom. There is one

> point on which I think you miss the import, and I

> quoted this above. It is

> why I brought the matter to this forum, actually. I

> am not so much

> interested in Mr. Baba than I am in Amma. I know

> that She has regularly sent

> devotees to him; one poster posted that in this

> thread, if you have not seen

> it. No one should have to inform Amma about the

> allegations of Her fellow

> South Indian Guru. I mean, do you really think that

> you, or anyone, is in a

> postion to inform the Guru of what She ought to know

> already? Could She not

> know his character? She would have to have known it

> and referred people

> anyway. It is a fact that strikes one in the face

> and calls out for an

> answer. It is one thing to ignore him; that I could

> understand (almost) as a

> kind of non-interference among Gurus: a sort of Guru

> ethic. But, She goes

> further than that, and actively sends devotees to

> see him, and does not warn

> people that he is a defective Guru. She has made

> qualifying criticisms of

> other Gurus: fact. Yet, with S. Baba, She refrains.

> Why? How could She not

> know???She, who can look at a photo and size up

> people? This is the

> question. I am sorry for offending others, if that

> is what this post does,

> but it is too late for me. It is already an issue

> for me. I still have

> faith in Amma, but it is under stress right now.

> For me to do otherwise

> would be for me to divide off part of me (my

> discriminating intellect and

> moral integrity) so that my feeling-self can exist

> untouched. That would be

> blind faith. I would always be confused that way,

> and running from a dark

> doubt.

>

 

 

 

 

 

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