Guest guest Posted July 10, 2001 Report Share Posted July 10, 2001 Namah Shivaya, Divya (Ann Caviness) has shared more of her notes with us from Amma's question and answer session at the Santa Fe retreat. Devotee asks Amma if there is a final state of Realization. He thought he heard that Amma said there was, but he has read some books that say it is an ever-evolving state. Amma: There are different states. One is like a helium balloon that bursts and becomes One. Another is like a river that flows and finally merges with the ocean. Later, due to evaporation, it will return as rain in a kind of cycle. A jivan mukti can have realization while either in the body or at the moment of death. Some jivan muktis will have a strong sankalpa and will choose to come back and serve. Some never come back---like the helium balloon. Some are like people who work hard and accumulate a lot of money, and go somewhere (like the US) to enjoy themselves. They spend all their money and then return to their same old village. They exhaust all the merit that was acquired through good actions, and then return to the same old state. You can’t call it Liberation or the final state of Emancipation. There is a final state. There are different ways. It depends on how one looks at it and your attitude. Even though we say the Atma is One, we don’t understand this, just as we can’t recognize a crystal when it is immersed in water. There are several planes of consciousness, and some of them are so subtle that we can’t see them. It is like us talking about the sweetness of sugar. We should become One rather than speaking about it. There is a modern tendency, which really is quite strange. It is escapism into materialism. The attitude is “You are the Self, the Atma, so indulge in everything.” This is intellectual prostitution. People have a lot of borrowed ideas. People read a lot of books and then feel they know enough to write a book. They confuse themselves and others. The essential principle can’t be written. It is a deep experience. There was a man who always thought he was a mouse. He had an intense feeling that he was a mouse. He started talking to his wife about this and how he was afraid the cat was going to get him. He was in a terrible mental situation. He goes to a psychiatrist. The psychiatrist says, “You are a human being. Don’t worry. You are not a mouse. You are a human being.” The man walks out of the psychiatrist’s office with so much strength. However, he then sees a cat by the roadside. The man runs back to the psychiatrist and says, “I’m in a terrible state. I’m a mouse.” Psychiatrist: “Look, you are an ordinary human being.” Man: “I saw this cat . . . “ Psychiatrist: “So?” Man: “I know I am not a mouse, but the cat doesn’t!” Likewise, we are deluded. We keep saying we are the Self, but in practice it is nothing. We don’t have the deep experience. If you have that experience within, it should manifest through all your thoughts, words, and actions---everything we do. We need faith and understanding. There are so many levels, countless levels of consciousness. There is much research on sound these days. You can catch the sound of dead people, of events from eons ago. There are layers of sound. Understand That and have faith in it. *** Devotee: I recently attended an eco-psychology class where we were told that we are losing so many species every year. And that we are making a mess of things. (She starts crying.) How can we be with nature? Or is this just karmic and something we have to go through? Amma: We all know that long, long back we had this beautiful creature called dinosaurs. As time passed, the entire species became extinct. The creature couldn’t live in the environment any more due to changes in the climate, the air, and several other subtle factors. In modern times, we make many indiscriminant, selfish actions---chemicals are put into the environment, smoke from factories, and negative vibrations will create changes in the atmosphere through our thoughts. These result in new illnesses that sometimes we call allergies. This affects the animal and plant kingdoms. Instead of crying over the matter, do something sound to help the other species. In the modern society, it is almost impossible to exist without a car or businesses or factories because of the needs of the large population. However, people running factories and businesses can put aside a part of the profit for the protection of the environment and the species. Believe in action and pray! That’s what we should do. Prayer alone is not sufficient. Along with prayer, we should put forth the necessary effort. A person was driving his car at night and drove into a ditch. He suddenly thought, “Let me pray.” He took his asana and went up on the hill and sat down. He prayed to God to please bring his car back. However, nothing happened. His car was still in the ditch. He heard a voice say, “Hey you fool, what are you doing?” (Everyone laughs. Amma didn’t like using the word “fool”, so Swamiji changes it to ‘Hey man, what are you doing?’) Do something and pray. Act. Rise up to the occasion. Act and pray to God to get strength. While you are taking action, simultaneously pray. *** Devotee: Amma said that there are two types of Liberation---at death or during one’s life. I have heard that Amma has said that liberation during one’s life is very rare, almost non-existent. However, I think I have met several liberated people, including a friend of mine. Are these people Enlightened or deluded? How common is it to be enlightened these days? Amma: There are many people who are deluded and think they are Realized. There is a true story about one of Amma’s Children. Amma doesn’t want to mention the name. It is a true story. Several years ago, one of Amma’s devotees was in a deep state of depression, and during this time he read a book on Vedanta. He had some kind of experience, and then thought he was Realized. He said everything is the Atma. He got disciples (some of Amma’s Children). They were confused and asked Amma if he was deluded. Amma said he was deluded. He was in a sandwiched state. Amma didn’t want to blame or criticize the devotee, but She wanted them to know he was deluded. He was in a sandwiched state like someone who wants meat, but doesn’t want to see blood. Amma told them “He is deluded and will come out of it sooner or later.” She mentioned this to two very close devotees. A couple of years ago, all of a sudden he came out of it. He realized he had been deluded and went to Amma with his disciples and told Amma that She had saved him. We have to be very careful about these people. They will try to confuse you. They may even promise you heaven. And they may even tell you that all you need to do is commit suicide. Such are people are very dangerous. *** Devotee: “Amma, how can we love You more?” Amma: Just love yourself, follow your dharma, and know who you are. And that’s how you can love Amma more and more. Perform your dharma with alertness and you will be able to give more and more. Love will keep growing within us. If we keep on taking and taking, finally we will feel totally dry within. If we give, we will remain full, even after death. Such a person will live forever. This is hard, but we should strive to develop this attitude. Just keep thinking, “What more can I do?” *** Devotee: Are coach roaches evolving beings? Amma: Not only roaches, but all creatures, all kinds of living beings keep on evolving. And that is why the population is growing. Are you afraid of cockroaches? Devotee: No, not at all. Amma: Many people are afraid of them. There was a time when the population wasn’t as dense. Amma feels this has to do with evolution. *** Devotee: I have a question about reincarnation. Why are we like separate rain drops when we are all part of the ocean? Amma: It is an experience. The principles are very subtle. There is a separate existence even after death, but it is so subtle that no human eyes can see it. According to our actions, a subtle aura forms around the jiva, and rises up in the air after death and keeps an individual existence, but can’t be seen. The aura is like speaking into a tape recorder and it creates a shape of its own. It rises up in the atmosphere and stays there. Then, as with water, through evaporation the water comes down in the form of raindrops. Or you can comparer it to smoke. A smoker can blow the smoke out, and can even make smoke rings. (Amma is not telling anyone to take up smoking.) The smoke ring will maintain its shape for some time. Suppose you cut off the tip of your finger. (Amma is not telling anyone to cut their finger.) If you take an x-ray, the tip of the finger will show in the x-ray, it will still show there for some time. According to the actions, vasanas, mental constitution---several layers of consciousness-- -the soul travels before coming back to the womb. It is like a cycle of seasons and goes on and on. A mother gives birth to twins. One is normal and the other is unhealthy. We can’t say that God does everything equally. There is some factor beyond our comprehension. However, this aspect of spirituality is beyond words. It is pure experience. It is like trying to explain how sweet sugar is after tasting it. To describe it verbally is almost impossible. The best attitude is to be here in the present moment and forget about all these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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