asking swami's advice

[Guest guest]

> PS: In my experience Dayamrita Swamiji is lot

>lot wiser than I have met so far in life and

> Amma has spoken thru him : so I listen to him

> and his every word. Yes, I agree my own

>ignorence and ego may come in the way sometimes

> - that's a different issue. Over -n- out!

 

Amma speaks through Br. Dayamrita because he's

currently the director of MA Center, correct?

I will admit that BRAMACHARI (NOT SWAMIJI),

did give me a humble response to my problems,

but no real advice, knowing where his limits were.

On the other hand, having heard the advice given

to other people by various Swami's of Amma (shall

remain unnamed), it's apparent that the advice is

skewed because of their (rare) long-time close

association with Amma that many of the Swami's

and Bramachari's have been blessed with.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but no where have I

seen it mentioned that Amma recommends asking

her swami's for advice. By doing so, you

create the same unofficial authority, and the

negative results, of which you have already

experienced with SSB devotees and the SSB

sannyasin.

 

Again, I mean no offense to actual disciples of

Amma. Furthermore, it doesn't help Dayamrita's

ego (his spiritual growth) to refer to him as

something he is not: a swami. A Swami is

someone who has undergone the initiation of

sannayas, formal renunciation of the

perceivable world. As far as I know,

Dayamrita has not chosen or been asked to take

such a step. Oh, how many refer to Dayamrita as

"swamiji", when you should be truthful with him

and treat him as a brother, not a sannyasin or

upaguru (=teacher; except when he is specifically

teaching a class). Even after undergoing the

rites of sannyas, no where does it say that

wisdom is bestowed in the process.

[Guest guest]

Namah Shivaya,

 

In the indian context we generally call anyone who

has renounced the wotld and wears ochre/yellow a

'swami'. Though traditionally only sanyasis are titled

'swamis' still out of respect , we do use the term

'swami' in other cases where the person has renounced

the wotld and dedicated himself to God.

 

In the case of Amma's disciples, whether they are

brahmacharis or sanyasis, since they have renounced

the world and dedicated themselves to Amma, out of

respect we call them 'Swamis'.

 

And when we respect them we respect our Guru Amma

through that . Personally i know Dayamrita Swami to be

a very sweet humble soul whom i respect greatly .

 

Let us worry about our 'ego' first before worrying

about the swamis'.

 

bala

 

 

 

 

--- tomgull <tomgull wrote:

> > PS: In my experience Dayamrita Swamiji is lot

> >lot wiser than I have met so far in life and

> > Amma has spoken thru him : so I listen to him

> > and his every word. Yes, I agree my own

> >ignorence and ego may come in the way sometimes

> > - that's a different issue. Over -n- out!

>

> Amma speaks through Br. Dayamrita because he's

> currently the director of MA Center, correct?

> I will admit that BRAMACHARI (NOT SWAMIJI),

> did give me a humble response to my problems,

> but no real advice, knowing where his limits were.

> On the other hand, having heard the advice given

> to other people by various Swami's of Amma (shall

> remain unnamed), it's apparent that the advice is

> skewed because of their (rare) long-time close

> association with Amma that many of the Swami's

> and Bramachari's have been blessed with.

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but no where have I

> seen it mentioned that Amma recommends asking

> her swami's for advice. By doing so, you

> create the same unofficial authority, and the

> negative results, of which you have already

> experienced with SSB devotees and the SSB

> sannyasin.

>

> Again, I mean no offense to actual disciples of

> Amma. Furthermore, it doesn't help Dayamrita's

> ego (his spiritual growth) to refer to him as

> something he is not: a swami. A Swami is

> someone who has undergone the initiation of

> sannayas, formal renunciation of the

> perceivable world. As far as I know,

> Dayamrita has not chosen or been asked to take

> such a step. Oh, how many refer to Dayamrita as

> "swamiji", when you should be truthful with him

> and treat him as a brother, not a sannyasin or

> upaguru (=teacher; except when he is specifically

> teaching a class). Even after undergoing the

> rites of sannyas, no where does it say that

> wisdom is bestowed in the process.

>

>

 

 

 

 

Check out Shopping and Auctions for all of

your unique holiday gifts! Buy at

or bid at http://auctions.

[Guest guest]

Om Namo Shivaya, Bala!

 

You have put everything in the right context. Whenever I touched

any Swamiji's feets, I bowed as if Amma was in front of me. Many

times I would feel an urge to touch Amma's feets but you know it's

not always possible so I go and touch Swamiji's feets.

 

Actually, in last two years that had been focus of my meditation -

that may explain to you why I always dash to the Pada Puja whenever

Amma is entering the hall or pooja is going on ...

 

To me that's the highest place of worship for a devotee / student.

Somehow I learnt that from HanumanJi in TulsiRamayana : "... charan

raj mile ...".

 

One more thing, in my whole life I never bothered to remember any

Swamy's name because to me He/She has renounced the world and he/she

is with the Guru so His/her personality is with the Guru. I look at

Guru and in the physical absense of Guru I sometimes seek Swami for

blessing - but you know we all have to deal with our own ego and

ignorence .... lots of discussions ... i guess some of those could be

educational for others but once again it boils down to the individual

Karma and dedication / devotion / faith ...

 

I rest my case here,

 

 

Om Amriteshwariye Namah and Om Dayamrita Swami Namah

 

:ekanath

 

So getting back to the conflict or discussion, I don't have any

conflict at all and I've always been happy with all te

 

Ammachi, balakrishnan Shankar <balakrishnan_sh>

wrote:

> Namah Shivaya,

>

> In the indian context we generally call anyone who

> has renounced the wotld and wears ochre/yellow a

> 'swami'. Though traditionally only sanyasis are titled

> 'swamis' still out of respect , we do use the term

> 'swami' in other cases where the person has renounced

> the wotld and dedicated himself to God.

>

> In the case of Amma's disciples, whether they are

> brahmacharis or sanyasis, since they have renounced

> the world and dedicated themselves to Amma, out of

> respect we call them 'Swamis'.

>

> And when we respect them we respect our Guru Amma

> through that . Personally i know Dayamrita Swami to be

> a very sweet humble soul whom i respect greatly .

>

> Let us worry about our 'ego' first before worrying

> about the swamis'.

>

> bala

>

>

>

>

> --- tomgull <tomgull@m...> wrote:

> > > PS: In my experience Dayamrita Swamiji is lot

> > >lot wiser than I have met so far in life and

> > > Amma has spoken thru him : so I listen to him

> > > and his every word. Yes, I agree my own

> > >ignorence and ego may come in the way sometimes

> > > - that's a different issue. Over -n- out!

> >

> > Amma speaks through Br. Dayamrita because he's

> > currently the director of MA Center, correct?

> > I will admit that BRAMACHARI (NOT SWAMIJI),

> > did give me a humble response to my problems,

> > but no real advice, knowing where his limits were.

> > On the other hand, having heard the advice given

> > to other people by various Swami's of Amma (shall

> > remain unnamed), it's apparent that the advice is

> > skewed because of their (rare) long-time close

> > association with Amma that many of the Swami's

> > and Bramachari's have been blessed with.

> > Correct me if I'm wrong, but no where have I

> > seen it mentioned that Amma recommends asking

> > her swami's for advice. By doing so, you

> > create the same unofficial authority, and the

> > negative results, of which you have already

> > experienced with SSB devotees and the SSB

> > sannyasin.

> >

> > Again, I mean no offense to actual disciples of

> > Amma. Furthermore, it doesn't help Dayamrita's

> > ego (his spiritual growth) to refer to him as

> > something he is not: a swami. A Swami is

> > someone who has undergone the initiation of

> > sannayas, formal renunciation of the

> > perceivable world. As far as I know,

> > Dayamrita has not chosen or been asked to take

> > such a step. Oh, how many refer to Dayamrita as

> > "swamiji", when you should be truthful with him

> > and treat him as a brother, not a sannyasin or

> > upaguru (=teacher; except when he is specifically

> > teaching a class). Even after undergoing the

> > rites of sannyas, no where does it say that

> > wisdom is bestowed in the process.

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

> Check out Shopping and Auctions for all of

> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at

> or bid at http://auctions.

[Guest guest]

Ammachi, "ekanath" <ekanath> wrote:

> Om Namo Shivaya, Bala!

>

> You have put everything in the right context. Whenever I touched

> any Swamiji's feets, I bowed as if Amma was in front of me. Many

> times I would feel an urge to touch Amma's feets but you know it's

> not always possible so I go and touch Swamiji's feets.

>

> Actually, in last two years that had been focus of my

meditation -

> that may explain to you why I always dash to the Pada Puja whenever

> Amma is entering the hall or pooja is going on ...

>

> To me that's the highest place of worship for a devotee /

student.

> Somehow I learnt that from HanumanJi in TulsiRamayana : "... charan

> raj mile ...".

 

JUST TO REFRESH THE MEMORY OF SOME OF THE PRACTISES of

those 'fake' ones from SSB group had tried repeatedly to mess up my

focus and dedication to Amma's pada puja in my house and during

amma's visit in the ashram.

 

Only shameless devotee of a Guru would attempt to offend other

devotee's Guru Puja. - Let me try to rationalize from the point of

other person's way of thinking : people who obtain the paduka (from

whatever source) and use paduka pooja "to lure the innocent ones as

well as to satisfy their material greed" can fall to the level of

disrupting others' pada puja.

 

sorry - all the gurus! because these are not nice things to say

even - may a disciple receive enough love and wisdom to rise above

the petty needs ...

 

Om amriteshwariye namah

 

 

>

> One more thing, in my whole life I never bothered to remember

any

> Swamy's name because to me He/She has renounced the world and

he/she

> is with the Guru so His/her personality is with the Guru. I look at

> Guru and in the physical absense of Guru I sometimes seek Swami for

> blessing - but you know we all have to deal with our own ego and

> ignorence .... lots of discussions ... i guess some of those could

be

> educational for others but once again it boils down to the

individual

> Karma and dedication / devotion / faith ...

>

> I rest my case here,

>

>

> Om Amriteshwariye Namah and Om Dayamrita Swami Namah

>

> :ekanath

>

> So getting back to the conflict or discussion, I don't have any

> conflict at all and I've always been happy with all te

>

> Ammachi, balakrishnan Shankar <balakrishnan_sh>

> wrote:

> > Namah Shivaya,

> >

> > In the indian context we generally call anyone who

> > has renounced the wotld and wears ochre/yellow a

> > 'swami'. Though traditionally only sanyasis are titled

> > 'swamis' still out of respect , we do use the term

> > 'swami' in other cases where the person has renounced

> > the wotld and dedicated himself to God.

> >

> > In the case of Amma's disciples, whether they are

> > brahmacharis or sanyasis, since they have renounced

> > the world and dedicated themselves to Amma, out of

> > respect we call them 'Swamis'.

> >

> > And when we respect them we respect our Guru Amma

> > through that . Personally i know Dayamrita Swami to be

> > a very sweet humble soul whom i respect greatly .

> >

> > Let us worry about our 'ego' first before worrying

> > about the swamis'.

> >

> > bala

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --- tomgull <tomgull@m...> wrote:

> > > > PS: In my experience Dayamrita Swamiji is lot

> > > >lot wiser than I have met so far in life and

> > > > Amma has spoken thru him : so I listen to him

> > > > and his every word. Yes, I agree my own

> > > >ignorence and ego may come in the way sometimes

> > > > - that's a different issue. Over -n- out!

> > >

> > > Amma speaks through Br. Dayamrita because he's

> > > currently the director of MA Center, correct?

> > > I will admit that BRAMACHARI (NOT SWAMIJI),

> > > did give me a humble response to my problems,

> > > but no real advice, knowing where his limits were.

> > > On the other hand, having heard the advice given

> > > to other people by various Swami's of Amma (shall

> > > remain unnamed), it's apparent that the advice is

> > > skewed because of their (rare) long-time close

> > > association with Amma that many of the Swami's

> > > and Bramachari's have been blessed with.

> > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but no where have I

> > > seen it mentioned that Amma recommends asking

> > > her swami's for advice. By doing so, you

> > > create the same unofficial authority, and the

> > > negative results, of which you have already

> > > experienced with SSB devotees and the SSB

> > > sannyasin.

> > >

> > > Again, I mean no offense to actual disciples of

> > > Amma. Furthermore, it doesn't help Dayamrita's

> > > ego (his spiritual growth) to refer to him as

> > > something he is not: a swami. A Swami is

> > > someone who has undergone the initiation of

> > > sannayas, formal renunciation of the

> > > perceivable world. As far as I know,

> > > Dayamrita has not chosen or been asked to take

> > > such a step. Oh, how many refer to Dayamrita as

> > > "swamiji", when you should be truthful with him

> > > and treat him as a brother, not a sannyasin or

> > > upaguru (=teacher; except when he is specifically

> > > teaching a class). Even after undergoing the

> > > rites of sannyas, no where does it say that

> > > wisdom is bestowed in the process.

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Check out Shopping and Auctions for all of

> > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at

> > or bid at http://auctions.

[Guest guest]

My posts never meant to be an attack on

Dayamrita, only to show how people unwisely

place people like him in positions of

authority, and the effects. Really, no

where does Amma recommend or suggest going

to her Swami's for advice. It would also

be a blessing to him for y'all to make

the sacrifice and not call him "Swamiji".

If you honor him as a fellow sadhak, you'll

stop doing this. Like I said, calling him

that when he isn't a swami only encourages

the increase of his ego, and you

yourself wouldn't want someone to go around

doing or saying things to build up your ego.

 

A bramachari is really just a celibate student,

dedicated to learning the scriptures and

doing sadhana. From there they go on

to married life, or continue in a path

towards the rites of sannyas. It is not,

however, contrary to much MISinformation

among Amma devotees, some sort of graduated

system of spiritual promotion.

 

The word "Swami" technically refers to someone

who controls their senses, and is sometimes

combined with "GO" to be goswami to emphasize

this. Various renunicates, formal or other

wise are refered to as "swami", only out of

reverence, be it out of ignorance of the actual

meaning of the word. There's many such examples

of misapplication of sanskrit words, due to

their increasingly casual usage among the western

world and NRI's (non-resident Indians).

 

Out of respect you call someone a swami who is

not a true sannyas, you continue to spread the

ignorance to newcomers. Unfortunately, the

idea of the blind leading the blind is common

among Amma's devotees, because just as in the

SSB organization, many devotees give invalid

authority to long-time devotees who are

ignorant and prideful (and mean, too).

 

To repeat myself for those who only hear what

they want to hear or read, I am NOT criticizing

the person of Br. Dayamrita, so please stop

defending and praising him, as this is not the

issue. Any br., swami, or devotee who goes

through the external motions of bowing,

salutations, etc. does not necessarily demonstrate

humility, but the motions of it. External

actions as those have nothing to do with

true humility, but they are practices to help

instill humility. For years at various

local satsang meetings I've seen people bow

with "oh, such humility", but they see bowing

as only a physical act, while their ego

is standing tall within, and then they complain

about not making progress.

 

If you want to experience the Supreme Truth,

you must always be truthful and want the truth

however distasteful. To experience

the Ultimate Reality, you must always deal

with reality, and want to deal with the real

issues.

 

little lies--> Lies --> BIG LIE, maya, ignorance, unnecessary

suffering

 

little truths --> Truths ---> Supreme Truth

 

For the mathematically inclined:

1 + 1 = 2

little lie + little lie = Lie,

Lie + Lie = BIG LIE, maya, illusion, suffering

 

little truths + little truths = Truth

Truth + Truth = Supreme Truth or

truththruthtruthtruthtruthtruthtruth... (you get the point)

 

Keep feeding your mind and life with ignorance

albeit "pleasant and fun" ignorance of calling

people improper and incorrect names, and you lose

your right to complain about not experiencing

God aside from Amma's darshan.

 

I'm putting away Devi's arrows for this subject.

[Guest guest]

tom,

as lots of email explained that "swami" is a hindu sanskrit word

and it comes with the culture. you don't have to call him "swami" if

you feel yourself offended or belittled.

 

i expressed some dissatisfaction from fake devotees of ssb (not

Himself) and here we go long 'enchilada' - smells and soundlike

typical arguments i always receive from fake mandalis of ssb

followers. I belive you need to cleanse away that influence (and stay

in touch with the Guru directly) and of course just be humble /

humility without any ego - [i always do same] - people in this egroup

are trying to have love and harmony with Amma. I hope you are also

enjoying the Amma's Love, ....

 

May Your Guru Teach You With The Love You Deserve

 

Om amriteshwariye namah

 

Ammachi, "tomgull" <tomgull@m...> wrote:

> My posts never meant to be an attack on

> Dayamrita, only to show how people unwisely

> place people like him in positions of

> authority, and the effects. Really, no

> where does Amma recommend or suggest going

> to her Swami's for advice. It would also

> be a blessing to him for y'all to make

> the sacrifice and not call him "Swamiji".

> If you honor him as a fellow sadhak, you'll

> stop doing this. Like I said, calling him

> that when he isn't a swami only encourages

> the increase of his ego, and you

> yourself wouldn't want someone to go around

> doing or saying things to build up your ego.

>

> A bramachari is really just a celibate student,

> dedicated to learning the scriptures and

> doing sadhana. From there they go on

> to married life, or continue in a path

> towards the rites of sannyas. It is not,

> however, contrary to much MISinformation

> among Amma devotees, some sort of graduated

> system of spiritual promotion.

>

> The word "Swami" technically refers to someone

> who controls their senses, and is sometimes

> combined with "GO" to be goswami to emphasize

> this. Various renunicates, formal or other

> wise are refered to as "swami", only out of

> reverence, be it out of ignorance of the actual

> meaning of the word. There's many such examples

> of misapplication of sanskrit words, due to

> their increasingly casual usage among the western

> world and NRI's (non-resident Indians).

>

> Out of respect you call someone a swami who is

> not a true sannyas, you continue to spread the

> ignorance to newcomers. Unfortunately, the

> idea of the blind leading the blind is common

> among Amma's devotees, because just as in the

> SSB organization, many devotees give invalid

> authority to long-time devotees who are

> ignorant and prideful (and mean, too).

>

> To repeat myself for those who only hear what

> they want to hear or read, I am NOT criticizing

> the person of Br. Dayamrita, so please stop

> defending and praising him, as this is not the

> issue. Any br., swami, or devotee who goes

> through the external motions of bowing,

> salutations, etc. does not necessarily demonstrate

> humility, but the motions of it. External

> actions as those have nothing to do with

> true humility, but they are practices to help

> instill humility. For years at various

> local satsang meetings I've seen people bow

> with "oh, such humility", but they see bowing

> as only a physical act, while their ego

> is standing tall within, and then they complain

> about not making progress.

>

> If you want to experience the Supreme Truth,

> you must always be truthful and want the truth

> however distasteful. To experience

> the Ultimate Reality, you must always deal

> with reality, and want to deal with the real

> issues.

>

> little lies--> Lies --> BIG LIE, maya, ignorance, unnecessary

> suffering

>

> little truths --> Truths ---> Supreme Truth

>

> For the mathematically inclined:

> 1 + 1 = 2

> little lie + little lie = Lie,

> Lie + Lie = BIG LIE, maya, illusion, suffering

>

> little truths + little truths = Truth

> Truth + Truth = Supreme Truth or

> truththruthtruthtruthtruthtruthtruth... (you get the point)

>

> Keep feeding your mind and life with ignorance

> albeit "pleasant and fun" ignorance of calling

> people improper and incorrect names, and you lose

> your right to complain about not experiencing

> God aside from Amma's darshan.

>

> I'm putting away Devi's arrows for this subject.

[Guest guest]

Dear Tom,

I would like to invite you to see this forum not only as a way to express

your opinions and share your knowledge but also as a way to learn from your

brothers and sisters in Amma.

 

I was rather amazed at your assertion that, "" ... nowhere does Amma

recommend or suggest going to her Swamis for advice." so I asked around to

see if anyone had any info to the contrary. Here's what I got back, I'm sure

there are other examples:

 

<<Chandra Pillai had a vision of Amma in the puja room of his house in NM

which

lasted about 10 - 30 mins (not sure of the duration). By vision, I mean

physical presence, although it was know for a fact that Amma was in Amritapuri

at that time.

 

Leaving other parts of the story aside, I believe he was traumatized by that

event. Amma then sent Chandra a message through his sister-in-law that he

should to one of the Swamis to help him understand the significance of that

event in his life.

 

Source: Savitri Bess' "The Path of the Mother", p114.>>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/22/01 12:46:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,

tomgull writes:

 

<< Just because Amma

tells one person to do something, it's not

necessarily good for all >>

 

Thanks for the clarification. I agree with this.

OAN, Amalia

[Guest guest]

<<Chandra Pillai had a vision of Amma >>

 

I'm referring to asking a swami for advice,

in general. Sorry I wasn't clear about it.

Misinformation is so common among

devotees because of following the norms

of "long-timers" and not truly discerning

what Amma instructs, so, much needless suffering

occurs as a result. Just because Amma

tells one person to do something, it's not

necessarily good for all, unless you can

discern that the advice given is under the

same circumstances as your own. There's

been plenty times I've heard someone

start telling others to do things that

Amma supposedly said, but it was originally

said to a specific person. Just like

you don't take someone else's prescription

drugs or prescribed method of therapy,

a person would be unwise to follow the

instructions given to someone else unless

the circumstances suggest it. I'm still open

to evidence that Amma specifically instructs

people to go to her swami's or disciples for

advice.

[Guest guest]

Dear Tom,

Why do you think Amma has send out people who are initiated, trained

and moulded by her?

If we shouldn't listen to them anyway why should they speak to us?

Certainly they are still disciples and limited in their vision

compared to Amma.

If they are humble they admit that frankly.

Some have never gone thru a normal "worldly" stage with

relationships, carierstruggle etc. but joined Amma

right after school/college/etc. And they grew up in India. So at

times they are somewhat helpless if you approach them with issues

outside of there own field of experience or training. Even then there

is this unique inner connection with Amma (Amma seen here as part of

a universal intelligence) that enables them to answer in an

appropriate way.

A little true story: Long ago there was a disciple being send to

Europe by Amma. He didn't want to go. He said, " Amma, I don't know

truly about God, his Shakti etc. I just read a little Vedanta, the

bible, Gita. How can I teach other people? Amma's reply: You go! I'll

speak thru you!----

Boom!

And it happened. We had little Vedanta sessions and Amma's grace

nourished the spirit in our hearts. We got glimpses of the deeper

meaning, an inner realignment and hints in what way we personally can

attune our lives to the spirit.

Another disciple who came at a later time shared with us that he felt

quite empty in India before coming to Europe. He didn't know what to

tell the foreigners. He still gave interesting satsangs and Amma's

grace did its miracle. I knew this man since his early days with Amma

in India and in my arrogance I never thought that he could help me on

my path. He shared his uneasyness with us, told us very personal

stories like how he fell in love for the first time while he was

already brahmachari and what Amma did about it etc. He presented

also views I couldn't accept. But I skipped that. And after the

satsang I was so thankful for his coming because Amma's grace

reconnected me with the soul in my heart.

I think many in the list have some similar experiences.

Amma helps the local devotee's with a representative to keep in touch

with her grace.

 

Greetings from Berlin, Germany

Lutz

 

 

 

Ammachi, "tomgull" <tomgull@m...> wrote:

> <<Chandra Pillai had a vision of Amma >>

>

> I'm referring to asking a swami for advice,

> in general. Sorry I wasn't clear about it.

> Misinformation is so common among

> devotees because of following the norms

> of "long-timers" and not truly discerning

> what Amma instructs, so, much needless suffering

> occurs as a result. Just because Amma

> tells one person to do something, it's not

> necessarily good for all, unless you can

> discern that the advice given is under the

> same circumstances as your own. There's

> been plenty times I've heard someone

> start telling others to do things that

> Amma supposedly said, but it was originally

> said to a specific person. Just like

> you don't take someone else's prescription

> drugs or prescribed method of therapy,

> a person would be unwise to follow the

> instructions given to someone else unless

> the circumstances suggest it. I'm still open

> to evidence that Amma specifically instructs

> people to go to her swami's or disciples for

> advice.