Guest guest Posted February 19, 2002 Report Share Posted February 19, 2002 Ghirish RE: Mantra Diksha Being that AMmachi gives initiation without any of the preliminary requisites you have quoted as traditional wisdom, how do you understand that? Few recognize the utter unorthodoxy of Ammachi in granting mantra-diksha to anyone who shows up. I don't think She ever denied any one who wished one. She even lets you choose the one you want. I have often wondered about the utter caprice and how significant it is that Amma breaks the traditional rules governing such. Traditionally, the pupil would be tested and found either lacking or possessing the attributes without which the diksha should not be given. How is it such that Amma initiates even people who seem clearly unbalanced mentally, who clearly and absolutely would not be granted mantra-diksha in an orthodox, traditional lineage in Hinduism?? Yours, Avram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2002 Report Share Posted February 19, 2002 Avram, The article I posted was meant for people _receiving_ Mantra Diksha and setting expectations. It is true that Amma grants Mantra Diksha to everybody who asks for it. It is her greatness that she is willing to accept anybody as her disciple. It is up to us to live up to the expectations. There is an incident in the life of Sri Ramanuja (http://www.sivanandadlshq.org/saints/ramanuja.htm) where he grants initiation to all the people. "Ramanuja then proceeded to Thirukottiyur to take initiation from Nambi for Japa of the sacred Mantra of eight letters Om Namo Narayanaya. Somehow, Nambi was not willing to initiate Ramanuja easily. He made Ramanuja travel all the way from Srirangam to Madurai nearly eighteen times before he made up his mind to initiate him, and that too, only after exacting solemn promises of secrecy. Then Nambi duly initiated Ramanuja and said: "Ramanuja! Keep this Mantra a secret. This Mantra is a powerful one. Those who repeat this Mantra will attain salvation. Give it only to a worthy disciple previously tried". But Ramanuja had a very large heart. He was extremely compassionate and his love for humanity was unbounded. He wanted that every man should enjoy the eternal bliss of Lord Narayana. He realised that the Mantra was very powerful. He immediately called all people, irrespective of caste and creed, to assemble before the temple. He stood on top of the tower above the front gate of the temple, and shouted out the sacred Mantra to all of them at the top of his voice. Nambi, his Guru, came to know of this. He became furious. Ramanuja said: "O my beloved Guru! Please prescribe a suitable punishment for my wrong action". Ramanuja said: "I will gladly suffer the tortures of hell myself if millions of people could get salvation by hearing the Mantra through me". Nambi was very much pleased with Ramanuja and found out that he had a very large heart full of compassion. He embraced Ramanuja and blessed him. Having thus equipped himself with the necessary qualifications, Ramanuja succeeded Yamuna. " On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 sprose1 wrote: > Ghirish > RE: Mantra Diksha > > Being that AMmachi gives initiation without any of the preliminary requisites > you have quoted as traditional wisdom, how do you understand that? Few > recognize the utter unorthodoxy of Ammachi in granting mantra-diksha to > anyone who shows up. I don't think She ever denied any one who wished one. > She even lets you choose the one you want. I have often wondered about the > utter caprice and how significant it is that Amma breaks the traditional > rules governing such. Traditionally, the pupil would be tested and found > either lacking or possessing the attributes without which the diksha should > not be given. How is it such that Amma initiates even people who seem > clearly unbalanced mentally, who clearly and absolutely would not be granted > mantra-diksha in an orthodox, traditional lineage in Hinduism?? > Yours, > Avram > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > Ammachi > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2002 Report Share Posted February 19, 2002 Hi the only explanation for this would be Her infinite compassion .. bala --- sprose1 wrote: > Ghirish > RE: Mantra Diksha > > Being that AMmachi gives initiation without any of > the preliminary requisites > you have quoted as traditional wisdom, how do you > understand that? Few > recognize the utter unorthodoxy of Ammachi in > granting mantra-diksha to > anyone who shows up. I don't think She ever denied > any one who wished one. > She even lets you choose the one you want. I have > often wondered about the > utter caprice and how significant it is that Amma > breaks the traditional > rules governing such. Traditionally, the pupil > would be tested and found > either lacking or possessing the attributes without > which the diksha should > not be given. How is it such that Amma initiates > even people who seem > clearly unbalanced mentally, who clearly and > absolutely would not be granted > mantra-diksha in an orthodox, traditional lineage in > Hinduism?? > Yours, > Avram > Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2002 Report Share Posted February 19, 2002 Dear Avram, as an old time temporary mantra instructor for Amma I've had my experiences with her practice. First thing you should remember that Amma is very clever. And she knows her flock very well. She wants to get as many people as possible involved with her somehow. She is a big mama and mama makes everybody grow. She knows very well that with this little instruction and support not so many people will stick to the mantra practice. Still she'll get some more people practicing something. And some people are very happy with it. Others complain because they got a health mantra but wanted something else. Some got a mantra but find out that something in it irritates them. At times she changes it then. The mantra diksha she gives out freely is just a starter. It is an opportunity for people to practice. If they are ready for more she'll give what is appropriate. To get her "real powerful" diksha you've to serve her for a while pass some tests of loyalty and wait for some month or years. ---- How is your sitting practice? How many days was your longest retreat so far? Greetings Lutz Ammachi, sprose1@a... wrote: > Ghirish > RE: Mantra Diksha > > Being that AMmachi gives initiation without any of the preliminary requisites > you have quoted as traditional wisdom, how do you understand that? Few > recognize the utter unorthodoxy of Ammachi in granting mantra- diksha to > anyone who shows up. I don't think She ever denied any one who wished one. > She even lets you choose the one you want. I have often wondered about the > utter caprice and how significant it is that Amma breaks the traditional > rules governing such. Traditionally, the pupil would be tested and found > either lacking or possessing the attributes without which the diksha should > not be given. How is it such that Amma initiates even people who seem > clearly unbalanced mentally, who clearly and absolutely would not be granted > mantra-diksha in an orthodox, traditional lineage in Hinduism?? > Yours, > Avram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2002 Report Share Posted February 19, 2002 Dear Lutz, Very well put. Thank you for the delightful and wise picture you potray of Amma. While I am not taking about the mantra diksha part here, I wanted to express a thought which I find relevant. Often, the intense love that She expresses for Her children plays such a dominant role in Her life and its potrayal by emminent writers, one sometimes forgets that She is indeed a very wise woman too, far wise than most would give Her credit for. Running such a big organization (as She does) with so many disciples and devotees, so many charitable activities, schools and colleges, hospitals, and looking after each of them from time to time, while attending to the needs of Her children, whether nearby or far away, and at the same time conducting programs in various cities across the world that give Her children an oppurtunity to see Her, hear Her sing so blissfully, and enjoy Her delightful and cheerful presence. And all this is done so EFFORTLESSLY and flawlessly that chances are, one may think it is easy to orchestrate. If I ever make that mistake, I just have to think of how incredibly hard it is for me to get agreement on any topic amongst friends, or even let the disagreement settle in amicably into our lives, let alone planning a joint project to its completion. That thought immediately restores perspective as to how much hard work and love goes in maintaining all this together, and helping us provide some meaning in our lives. And how lacking of the same I am, left on my own. Jai Ma! manoj. --- hermes1008 <berlinertraum wrote: > Dear Avram, > as an old time temporary mantra instructor for Amma I've had my > experiences with her practice. > First thing you should remember that Amma is very clever. And she > knows her flock very well. > She wants to get as many people as possible involved with her > somehow. She is a big mama and mama makes everybody grow. She knows > very well that with this little instruction and support not so many > people will stick to the mantra practice. Still she'll get some more > people practicing something. > And some people are very happy with it. Others complain because they > got a health mantra but wanted something else. Some got a mantra but > find out that something in it irritates them. At times she changes it > then. > The mantra diksha she gives out freely is just a starter. It is an > opportunity for people to practice. If they are ready for more she'll > give what is appropriate. To get her "real powerful" diksha you've to > serve her for a while pass some tests of loyalty and wait for some > month or years. > ---- > How is your sitting practice? How many days was your longest retreat > so far? > > Greetings Lutz Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 Dear Lutz, I agree with what you're saying on a general level, but I also think that we all come to Mother with different karmas. Some of us, like myself, practiced guruseva under a different guru for many, many years. When I first came to Amma, she yelled out, "My daughter" in great excitement, as though she'd always known me a long time. I, too, felt I'd known her quite well. I've hardly served Amma or her mission on a personal level, yet I feel I've received some very powerful initiations from her. I intuitively feel that Amma considers all my previous sadhana and spiritual practice that I offered to my first guru as though I had been serving her. It's highly individual. I read in one of Swamiji's satsang books that Amma once commented, "I can give self-realization to someone who's hardly done any sadhana, and you'll all wonder why" paraphrased of course. She said it didn't mean that she would give it to some unworthy, but these things are highly mysterious. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Lisa To get her "real powerful" diksha you've to > serve her for a while pass some tests of loyalty and wait for some > month or years. > ---- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 > To get her "real powerful" diksha you've to > > serve her for a while pass some tests of loyalty and wait for some > > month or years. Yes, you are right I had my own case in mind here. But you are talking more about spontaneous inner experiences not about mantra diksha. Seems like mothers presence has unlocked some channels to the realm of light, bliss and joy in you. One could also say that the flowers of your heart and soul had opened in the warmth of the spiritual sun Amma. Greetings Lutz Ammachi, "lbrachlin" <lalita120@h...> wrote: > Dear Lutz, > > I agree with what you're saying on a general level, but I also think > that we all come to Mother with different karmas. Some of us, like > myself, practiced guruseva under a different guru for many, many > years. When I first came to Amma, she yelled out, "My daughter" in > great excitement, as though she'd always known me a long time. I, > too, felt I'd known her quite well. I've hardly served Amma or her > mission on a personal level, yet I feel I've received some very > powerful initiations from her. I intuitively feel that Amma considers > all my previous sadhana and spiritual practice that I offered to my > first guru as though I had been serving her. It's highly individual. > I read in one of Swamiji's satsang books that Amma once commented, "I > can give self-realization to someone who's hardly done any sadhana, > and you'll all wonder why" paraphrased of course. She said it didn't > mean that she would give it to some unworthy, but these things are > highly mysterious. > > Anyone have any thoughts on this? > > > ---- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 That's a kind thing to say. It's mysterious how the guru tests. I do believe it's important to spend time with the physical guru, and obviously Amma feels that way! But then, who is the true "guru" who is doing the testing? The real guru is the Self...the witness. This inner witness is the true guru...and that Inner Self is indeed Amma. It is this inner witness that knows all that we do. It is that witness that observes and tests our actions, so we must live our lives as though God is watching us at every moment, because God does watch our every action. Ultimately, we must not perform any action that we would not want to perform in front of Amma. Who's to say how much time we should spend with the physical guru. Some may stay for 20 or 30 years, maybe another one year, maybe another one day. I guess it depends on the ripeness. It only takes a moment for a fruit to fall off the tree, but the fruit must first be ripe. It's interesting to me that Amma's senior disciples/swamis have been with her for 20 or 25 years. On the other hand, Ramakrishna's monastic disciples came at the very end of his life and only spent 3, maybe 4 or 5 (tops) years with him before he cast off his body. Sw. Vivekananda, I think, spent about 4 years with him. So time is relative. Anyway, It's something to think about! Lisa Ammachi, "hermes1008" <berlinertraum@c...> wrote: > > > To get her "real powerful" diksha you've to > > > serve her for a while pass some tests of loyalty and wait for > some > > > month or years. > > > Yes, you are right I had my own case in mind here. > > But you are talking more about spontaneous inner experiences not > about mantra diksha. > Seems like mothers presence has unlocked some channels to the realm > of light, bliss and joy in you. > One could also say that the flowers of your heart and soul had opened > in the warmth of the spiritual sun Amma. > > Greetings > Lutz > > > Ammachi, "lbrachlin" <lalita120@h...> wrote: > > Dear Lutz, > > > > I agree with what you're saying on a general level, but I also > think > > that we all come to Mother with different karmas. Some of us, like > > myself, practiced guruseva under a different guru for many, many > > years. When I first came to Amma, she yelled out, "My daughter" in > > great excitement, as though she'd always known me a long time. I, > > too, felt I'd known her quite well. I've hardly served Amma or her > > mission on a personal level, yet I feel I've received some very > > powerful initiations from her. I intuitively feel that Amma > considers > > all my previous sadhana and spiritual practice that I offered to my > > first guru as though I had been serving her. It's highly > individual. > > I read in one of Swamiji's satsang books that Amma once > commented, "I > > can give self-realization to someone who's hardly done any sadhana, > > and you'll all wonder why" paraphrased of course. She said it > didn't > > mean that she would give it to some unworthy, but these things are > > highly mysterious. > > > > Anyone have any thoughts on this? > > > > > ---- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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