Guest guest Posted July 30, 2002 Report Share Posted July 30, 2002 And don't deprive yourself of the lovliest translation into English (by Juan Mascaro) of The Bhagavad Gita. Also short & sweet, but wholsome and complete on Penguin Classics. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140441212/102-3393854-9292913 In a message dated 7/30/02 5:16:46 PM EST, Ammachi writes: << I would recommend R.K. Narayan's Ramayana. It's only 171 pages (in the Penguin paperback edition) so it won't take more than one lifetime to read Keva>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2002 Report Share Posted July 31, 2002 This is a list dedicated to Ammachi so I don’t want to get too far off topic but I did want to respond briefly to some comments. A couple of years ago I happened to attend a session of an annual conference on religion because one of the topics was ‘Ammachi’! I was a little surprised to find that the author of the paper being presented claimed a third of the people in the US who go to see Amma are TMers, actually I think that’s a little high but I’m not sure. Anyway I fall into that group and most of the TMers I see at Amma’s programs still practice TM as well. It’s true that some wealthy TMers have donated to Maharishi’s project to promote world peace. I’m not saying that military actions and other security are not sometimes necessary but like many people I think over-reactions could lead to disaster - for the whole world not just the US. For the long-term a solution that is more life-supporting than ‘Bombs away!’ needs to be found and at least some TMers feel that contributing to the world peace endeavor is worthwhile. If I had the money I’d do it too - I’m really inspired by the effort! As far as the ‘young men from Vedic families’ goes, I believe that follows Indian tradition. Maharishi has been doing a lot to help keep Vedic knowledge and traditions alive in India while still supporting economic and scientific progress. Anyway I know that in the US both women and men are equally involved in the effort and there’s even a campaign to reach out to retirees who may be interested in the TM programs as, obviously, they may have extra time on their hands. And over age 70, according to the demographics, that means mostly women! Message: 1 Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:07:47 -0000 "aikya" <aikya Re:not so FunFest As far as I have been able to tell in my contacts with TM people and TM related programs, IMHO their main effort is to financially and organizatinally support the TM organization. The naivete of people in the U.S. and their love for the quick fix sets them up to be misled by such organizations. What TM has done in the name of ayurveda raises my pitta too high for my health. Ayurveda is an ancient and complete system of medicine that deserves the same amount of education (oh, and respect) as allopathic medicine. Giving allopathically trained doctors and nurses a diploma after a brief course in ayurveda is spreading disinformation among US health care providers and not serving the needs of people seeking care. But then, as far as I can tell, the main purpose is to sell the organization's "ayurvedic" medicines. Amma has a big organization too. Pretty soon Amma's big organization will have an international center for complementary medicine if people are interested in health care outside the allopathic model. As for traditional Vedic families, they are probably very poor families. Many of the sons may want to study computers instead of continuing the tradition. There's more money in programming and website design. And, by the way, not all Americans and Europeans are opposed to elitist ways of doing things. Some of those people think elitism and all the other nasty -isms are a great idea. As for democracy, if it is different from capitalism, where have you seen it lately? Most Americans think democracy and capitalism are the same. The U.S. government treats them as if they are the same. When we go overseas to "promote democracy," usually the government is making sure that US corporations can build a pipeline or sell cigarettes or baby formula or something else better left undone. Democracy is messy. The wrong people get elected and so on. Acting with impeccable integrity and a view to the benefit of all creatures ought to be the basis for all activity. Stick with Amma. Aikya Ammachi, SoulQuest7@a... wrote: I just went to one of the sites mentioned in a previous post, and I found a very sexist statement. I was wondering if sexism is a written or unspoken policy in the TM organization. It was on the "Permanent World Peace" website. "http://maharishi.invincibledefence.org/ad_proposal_world_peace/Proposal_ad.gif" http://maharishi.invincibledefence.org/ad_proposal_world_peace/Proposal_ad.gif It had a link to an article that the TM organization had published in newspapers after the 9-11 terrorist attacks. It said, "What is immediately needed is an endowment fund of $1 Billion in order to permanently engage 40,000 young men from the traditional Vedic families in India..." in regard to establishing an army of meditators to establish world peace. Why in God's name would it say "men"? For that matter, why "young men"? For that matter, why "traditional Vedic families from India"? Are women, older men, and people from outside India unworthy of being employed as meditators for peace? I remember reading (on pages 78-79 to be exact) of Paul Mason's 1994 biography "The Maharishi" that he is one of the few gurus who came to the West that supported India's caste system (social status and job determined by birth). Paul Mason writes, "Was he not aware that the people of America and Europe were generally opposed to elitist values and replacing them with altogether more liberal attitudes?" Recently when I saw the Maharishi on TV (Larry King Live) he said, "Damn the democracy, it's the worst thing for any country" in stating his opposition to citizens having a say on how they are governed. I'm also aware of people in Fairfield who live in fear that people in the TM heirarchy will find out they have "other" (read "heterodox") views that will lead them to be excommunicated from TM-related programs in the community on the justification that they are not "pure", or rather, that their views are not pure. I also know gay and lesbian TM followers who live in fear of being "outed," literally, and removed from jobs in the TM movement. I'm putting all this stuff together for an obvious reason. After studying a bit about the movement and visiting Fairfield a few times, I'm wondering if there are others who believe that though meditation and holistic health are good things, the basic social philosophy of the TM movement is completely elitist along the lines of what they call "Natural Law," which is far as I can tell simply means "whatever Maharishi says". I'm wondering if people feel that the Maharishi is essentially a rigid theocratic who advocates excommunicating anyone who crosses caste or orthodox belief boundaries. Lastly, does anyone in the TM movement take seriously the ad's claim that equates George Bush with Hitler? I mean, I've never voted Republican in my life, but the logic in the TM advert seems completely bizarre. Hitler WAS a totalitarian fascist, and the U.S. put an end to his fascism (and they entered the war too late to save millions of Jews). Now the U.S. is deliberately attacked by religious fascists and the Maharishi states that responding militarily to such fascism makes one a Hitler? I just can't believe anyone takes this seriously. Nearly any historian would laugh at that comparison. Although the U.S. could easily have annihilated entire countries if they had wished, they specifically target the Taliban and Al-quaeda. This is hardly the Hitlerian model of exterminating every living Jew in Europe! I feel that the Maharishi, while having a lot to offer the discussion of complimentary medicine, loses credibility when he ventures into foreign policy. It's funny, because a long time ago when Allen Ginsberg warned people that the Maharishi had extreme right wing views, I thought he was being alarmist. Now I'm staring to wonder if he hadn't nailed it right on the head. Ascend and Create - hari om Nick _____________ Messenger Nueva versión: Webcam, voz, y mucho más ¡Gratis! Descárgalo ya desde http://messenger..es Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2002 Report Share Posted August 2, 2002 --- Virginia Cook <muyilusionada wrote: > This is a list dedicated to Ammachi so I don’t want > to get too far off topic > but I did want to respond briefly to some comments. > A couple of years ago I > happened to attend a session of an annual conference > on religion because one of > the topics was ‘Ammachi’! I was a little surprised > to find that the author of > the paper being presented claimed a third of the > people in the US who go to see > Amma are TMers, actually I think that’s a little > high but I’m not sure. Anyway > I fall into that group and most of the TMers I see > at Amma’s programs still > practice TM as well. > > It’s true that some wealthy TMers have donated to > Maharishi’s project to > promote world peace. I’m not saying that military > actions and other security > are not sometimes necessary but like many people I > think over-reactions could > lead to disaster - for the whole world not just the > US. For the long-term a > solution that is more life-supporting than ‘Bombs > away!’ needs to be found and > at least some TMers feel that contributing to the > world peace endeavor is > worthwhile. If I had the money I’d do it too - I’m > really inspired by the > effort! > > As far as the ‘young men from Vedic families’ goes, > I believe that follows > Indian tradition. Maharishi has been doing a lot to > help keep Vedic knowledge > and traditions alive in India while still supporting > economic and scientific > progress. > > Anyway I know that in the US both women and men are > equally involved in the > effort and there’s even a campaign to reach out to > retirees who may be > interested in the TM programs as, obviously, they > may have extra time on their > hands. And over age 70, according to the > demographics, that means mostly women! > > Message: 1 > Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:07:47 -0000 > "aikya" <aikya > Re:not so FunFest > > As far as I have been able to tell in my contacts > with TM people and TM related > programs, IMHO their main effort is to financially > and organizatinally support > the TM organization. The naivete of people in the > U.S. and their love for the > quick fix sets them up to be misled by such > organizations. > > What TM has done in the name of ayurveda raises my > pitta too high for my > health. Ayurveda is an ancient and complete system > of medicine that deserves > the same amount of education (oh, and respect) as > allopathic medicine. Giving > allopathically trained doctors and nurses a diploma > after a brief course in > ayurveda is spreading disinformation among US health > care providers and not > serving the needs of people seeking care. But then, > as far as I can tell, the > main purpose is to sell the organization's > "ayurvedic" medicines. > > Amma has a big organization too. Pretty soon Amma's > big organization will have > an international center for complementary medicine > if people are interested in > health care outside the allopathic model. > > As for traditional Vedic families, they are probably > very poor families. Many > of the sons may want to study computers instead of > continuing the tradition. > There's more money in programming and website > design. > And, by the way, not all Americans and Europeans are > opposed to elitist ways of > doing things. Some of those people think elitism and > all the other nasty -isms > are a great idea. > > As for democracy, if it is different from > capitalism, where have you seen it > lately? Most Americans think democracy and > capitalism are the same. The U.S. > government treats them as if they are the same. When > we go overseas to "promote > democracy," usually the government is making sure > that US corporations can > build a pipeline or sell cigarettes or baby formula > or something else better > left undone. > > Democracy is messy. The wrong people get elected and > so on. > Acting with impeccable integrity and a view to the > benefit of all creatures > ought to be the basis for all activity. Stick with > Amma. > Aikya > > Ammachi, SoulQuest7@a... wrote: > I just went to one of the sites mentioned in a > previous post, and I found a > very sexist statement. I was wondering if sexism is > a written or unspoken > policy in the TM organization. It was on the > "Permanent World Peace" website. > "http://maharishi.invincibledefence.org/ad_proposal_world_peace/Proposal_ad.gif" > > http://maharishi.invincibledefence.org/ad_proposal_world_peace/Proposal_ad.gif > I AM SORRRY BUT SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THS STATEMNE 1 BILLION $ TO ENGAGE 40,000 YOUNG MAN FROM TRANDIONTAL VEDIC FAMILIES TO ESTABLISH ARMY OF MEDITATORS FOR WORLD PEACE , I MEAN THIS SOUNDS SUREALISTIC WHAT YOU NEED MAYBE IS BILION HEARTS AND PRAYERS ARE FREE, ANOTHER MONEY MAKING TIP FOR THOSE PHONY NEW AGE ORGANIZATIONS , I > It had a link to an article that the TM organization > had published in > newspapers after the 9-11 terrorist attacks. It > said, "What is immediately > needed is an endowment fund of $1 Billion in order > to permanently engage 40,000 > young men from the traditional Vedic families in > India..." in regard to > establishing an army of meditators to establish > world peace. > > Why in God's name would it say "men"? For that > matter, why "young men"? For > that matter, why "traditional Vedic families from > India"? Are women, older men, > and people from outside India unworthy of being > employed as meditators for > peace? I remember reading (on pages 78-79 to be > exact) of Paul Mason's 1994 > biography "The Maharishi" that he is one of the few > gurus who came to the West > that supported India's caste system (social status > and job determined by > birth). Paul Mason writes, "Was he not aware that > the people of America and > Europe were generally opposed to elitist values and > replacing them with > altogether more liberal attitudes?" Recently when I > saw the Maharishi on TV > (Larry King Live) he said, "Damn the democracy, it's > the worst thing for any > country" in stating his opposition to citizens > having a say on how they are > governed. > > I'm also aware of people in Fairfield who live in > fear that people in the TM > heirarchy will find out they have "other" (read > "heterodox") views that will > lead them to be excommunicated from TM-related > programs in the community on the > justification that they are not "pure", or rather, > that their views are not > pure. I also know gay and lesbian TM followers who > live in fear of being > "outed," literally, and removed from jobs in the TM > movement. I'm putting all > this stuff together for an obvious reason. After > studying a bit about the > movement and visiting Fairfield a few times, I'm > wondering if there are others > who believe that though meditation and holistic > health are good things, the > basic social philosophy of the TM movement is > completely elitist along the > lines of what they call "Natural Law," which is far > as I can tell simply means > "whatever Maharishi says". I'm wondering if people > feel that the Maharishi is > essentially a rigid theocratic who advocates > excommunicating anyone who crosses > caste or orthodox belief boundaries. > > Lastly, does anyone in the TM movement take > seriously the ad's claim that > equates George Bush with Hitler? I mean, I've never > voted Republican in my > life, but the logic in the TM advert seems > completely bizarre. Hitler WAS a > totalitarian fascist, and the U.S. put an end to his > fascism (and they entered > the war too late to save millions of Jews). Now the > U.S. is deliberately > attacked by religious fascists and the Maharishi > states === message truncated === Health - Feel better, live better http://health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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