Guest guest Posted August 4, 2002 Report Share Posted August 4, 2002 In a message dated 8/4/02 8:54:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mart0167 writes: > Some of us may not mind forking over fistfuls of money for the privilege > of "owning" such an "energized" item, knowing that the proceeds are used > to spread Mother's love around the world and fund her many charitable > projects. But the Rabbi's perspective -- a skeptical outsider who > wondered about the accounting realities -- definitely made me think. Is > this a form of reverse colonialism -- Amma's organization extracting > resources from "the West" to churn back into an underdeveloped India that > was historically exploited by the Raj? reading your post, what first came to mind is, 'well, does' the rabbi's synagogue charge $$ for rosh hashana/yom kippur tickets?.... the ma center as an agent of 'reverse colonialism'? hardly. rather I think that for too many people, their interest in amma, india, eastern spirituality, etc is nothing but the continuation of typical western colonialism, wrapped in feel good sentiments and an awful lot of incense smoke. and anyway, india historically exploited by the raj? who needs to look at historical evidence, when financial exploitation of india and countries like it is still standard operating procedure today? (Not Blonde) Manohari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2002 Report Share Posted August 4, 2002 Hi Amma family... All this talk about jealousy and who gets to sit where, do seva when, and receive a Holy Hug "before" or "after" whomever reminds me of SIBLING RIVALRY! Interestingly, some of our "childlike" behaviours around Amma don't always come across as innocence but rather as selfish, manipulating, positioning and so forth. I remember before the token system started being totally intimidated to go up for darshan. So many other folks had friends to "hold" their place in line, or had brought bulky asanas and backjacks to "stake" out their positions. It used to bum me out, but recently its made me laugh. People leave their stuff, then come back and yell at the people around them who have subsequently sat down to meditate, be close to Mother, etc. and maybe moved their blanket over an inch or their pillow and bags into one pile rather than all spread out. We squabble and sqwawk, but if Mother started walking in that same space we would all just pull back and give Her room. It often, to me, seems to verge on the ridiculous! I remember in the American psychologist-turned-baba Richard Alpert Ph.D. cum Ram Dass books, his guru, Neem Karoli Baba, always cautioned against gold and women. Ram Dass was born into money and had to work out some of those karmas as part of his purification process. It seems like some of the devotees who end up working in the bookstore are being thrust into that whirlwind of materialist energy in much the same way. Amma married my husband and I last summer, and this summer we held Wedding #2 in NYC to legalize it and appease Jeff's Jewish family. Our rabbi used to minister to the Columbia community, and he visited the Program the first night to catch the buzz. He was particularly struck by the "religious royalties" charged for items advertised as Amma's -- devi bhava saris that still seemed crisp (rather than worn), jewelrey that was 2 or 3 times the price because Mother had supposedly worn it, and so forth. (We ourselves own and cherish several such items - my wedding sari, various pieces of jewelrey). Some of us may not mind forking over fistfuls of money for the privilege of "owning" such an "energized" item, knowing that the proceeds are used to spread Mother's love around the world and fund her many charitable projects. But the Rabbi's perspective -- a skeptical outsider who wondered about the accounting realities -- definitely made me think. Is this a form of reverse colonialism -- Amma's organization extracting resources from "the West" to churn back into an underdeveloped India that was historically exploited by the Raj? Tough subject, this commercial aspect... Rachel Barrett Gallop (Prashanti) Women's Studies, Queens College Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2002 Report Share Posted August 4, 2002 Money is just a tool and to me, Amma seems 100% honorable and selfless in her use of that tool. Again, I contrast the situation with the TM Movement. So many millions have been raised over the years and there is so little to show for it these days. Maharishi just held a 1-month course with a course fee of $1 Million. About 80 people attended. He wants to raise $1 Billion but is happy to start with $80 million to establish and support a group of 40,000 pundits meditating and doing yagyas on the banks of the Ganges. I really hope it happens. There are rumors of Maharishi¹s family in India having enriched themselves extravagantly from money raised previously for such projects. Maharishi always avoided humanitarian projects such as Amma¹s saying that it didn¹t get to the root of the problem and that his focus was to raise world consciousness so that sickness, poverty, etc. wouldn¹t arise anymore. The jury is still out as to whether or not that was a viable approach. I suppose each saint is entitled to his/her own style. But if anyone thinks Amma¹s movement is all about money and lacking personal courtesy and kindness, come and hang around the TM movement for a while. -- > Hi Amma family... > > All this talk about jealousy and who gets to sit where, do seva when, and > receive a Holy Hug "before" or "after" whomever reminds me of SIBLING > RIVALRY! Interestingly, some of our "childlike" behaviours around Amma > don't always come across as innocence but rather as selfish, manipulating, > positioning and so forth. I remember before the token system started > being totally intimidated to go up for darshan. So many other folks had > friends to "hold" their place in line, or had brought bulky asanas and > backjacks to "stake" out their positions. > > It used to bum me out, but recently its made me laugh. People leave their > stuff, then come back and yell at the people around them who have > subsequently sat down to meditate, be close to Mother, etc. and maybe > moved their blanket over an inch or their pillow and bags into one pile > rather than all spread out. We squabble and sqwawk, but if Mother started > walking in that same space we would all just pull back and give Her > room. It often, to me, seems to verge on the ridiculous! > > I remember in the American psychologist-turned-baba Richard Alpert Ph.D. > cum Ram Dass books, his guru, Neem Karoli Baba, always cautioned against > gold and women. Ram Dass was born into money and had to work out some of > those karmas as part of his purification process. It seems like some of > the devotees who end up working in the bookstore are being thrust into > that whirlwind of materialist energy in much the same way. > > Amma married my husband and I last summer, and this summer we held Wedding > #2 in NYC to legalize it and appease Jeff's Jewish family. Our rabbi used > to minister to the Columbia community, and he visited the Program the > first night to catch the buzz. He was particularly struck by the > "religious royalties" charged for items advertised as Amma's -- devi bhava > saris that still seemed crisp (rather than worn), jewelrey that was 2 or 3 > times the price because Mother had supposedly worn it, and so forth. (We > ourselves own and cherish several such items - my wedding sari, various > pieces of jewelrey). > > Some of us may not mind forking over fistfuls of money for the privilege > of "owning" such an "energized" item, knowing that the proceeds are used > to spread Mother's love around the world and fund her many charitable > projects. But the Rabbi's perspective -- a skeptical outsider who > wondered about the accounting realities -- definitely made me think. Is > this a form of reverse colonialism -- Amma's organization extracting > resources from "the West" to churn back into an underdeveloped India that > was historically exploited by the Raj? > > Tough subject, this commercial aspect... > > Rachel Barrett Gallop (Prashanti) > Women's Studies, Queens College > > > > Sponsor > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > Ammachi > > > Terms of Service > <> . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2002 Report Share Posted August 5, 2002 Ijust noticed the price of things from not only Amma but other places as well when it is marketed to America. I know we are a country of "wealth" when we really look at it but sometimes I am surprised at the expenses of things. I sell Blessed Sari's myself (all money from this goes to help build a Kali Temple in the Houston area that two close friends are building) from the Mariamman temple in Singapore. Often they are new and crisp looking but I fully belive (weather silly or not) that they were in deed used in ritual there and wrapped around the Ma image in the temple. I was shocked to find out from the women who gets them how much they really sell for there and how cheap it is. Especially after I saw the price of Amma's saris. I do always justify the cost of something when it comes to Amma as the money going to help her charities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2002 Report Share Posted August 5, 2002 Microcredit in Bangladesh and Inida discovered differences between men and women when each is given money. Women spend the money on their families, first, communities second and themselves third. Men spend first on themselves. Also women pay back loans more consistently. As a result, microcredit agencies often exclusively loan to women in Asia. Maybe the difference seen between the Maharishi and Amma is as simple as gender. I don't think the gender difference is universal but the man who uses his resources for others would be someone who had made that a distinct principle in his life. Neem Karoli Baba and Ramakrishna knew that money could be a problem for them. St. Francis of Assisi seems to have noticed the same thing. Other men choose to use donations in a way that helps others. Aikya Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote: > Money is just a tool and to me, Amma seems 100% honorable and selfless in > her use of that tool. Again, I contrast the situation with the TM Movement. > So many millions have been raised over the years and there is so little to > show for it these days. Maharishi just held a 1-month course with a course > fee of $1 Million. About 80 people attended. He wants to raise $1 Billion > but is happy to start with $80 million to establish and support a group of > 40,000 pundits meditating and doing yagyas on the banks of the Ganges. I > really hope it happens. There are rumors of Maharishi¹s family in India > having enriched themselves extravagantly from money raised previously for > such projects. Maharishi always avoided humanitarian projects such as Amma¹s > saying that it didn¹t get to the root of the problem and that his focus was > to raise world consciousness so that sickness, poverty, etc. wouldn¹t arise > anymore. The jury is still out as to whether or not that was a viable > approach. I suppose each saint is entitled to his/her own style. But if > anyone thinks Amma¹s movement is all about money and lacking personal > courtesy and kindness, come and hang around the TM movement for a while. > -- > > > Hi Amma family... > > > > All this talk about jealousy and who gets to sit where, do seva when, and > > receive a Holy Hug "before" or "after" whomever reminds me of SIBLING > > RIVALRY! Interestingly, some of our "childlike" behaviours around Amma > > don't always come across as innocence but rather as selfish, manipulating, > > positioning and so forth. I remember before the token system started > > being totally intimidated to go up for darshan. So many other folks had > > friends to "hold" their place in line, or had brought bulky asanas and > > backjacks to "stake" out their positions. > > > > It used to bum me out, but recently its made me laugh. People leave their > > stuff, then come back and yell at the people around them who have > > subsequently sat down to meditate, be close to Mother, etc. and maybe > > moved their blanket over an inch or their pillow and bags into one pile > > rather than all spread out. We squabble and sqwawk, but if Mother started > > walking in that same space we would all just pull back and give Her > > room. It often, to me, seems to verge on the ridiculous! > > > > I remember in the American psychologist-turned-baba Richard Alpert Ph.D. > > cum Ram Dass books, his guru, Neem Karoli Baba, always cautioned against > > gold and women. Ram Dass was born into money and had to work out some of > > those karmas as part of his purification process. It seems like some of > > the devotees who end up working in the bookstore are being thrust into > > that whirlwind of materialist energy in much the same way. > > > > Amma married my husband and I last summer, and this summer we held Wedding > > #2 in NYC to legalize it and appease Jeff's Jewish family. Our rabbi used > > to minister to the Columbia community, and he visited the Program the > > first night to catch the buzz. He was particularly struck by the > > "religious royalties" charged for items advertised as Amma's -- devi bhava > > saris that still seemed crisp (rather than worn), jewelrey that was 2 or 3 > > times the price because Mother had supposedly worn it, and so forth. (We > > ourselves own and cherish several such items - my wedding sari, various > > pieces of jewelrey). > > > > Some of us may not mind forking over fistfuls of money for the privilege > > of "owning" such an "energized" item, knowing that the proceeds are used > > to spread Mother's love around the world and fund her many charitable > > projects. But the Rabbi's perspective -- a skeptical outsider who > > wondered about the accounting realities -- definitely made me think. Is > > this a form of reverse colonialism -- Amma's organization extracting > > resources from "the West" to churn back into an underdeveloped India that > > was historically exploited by the Raj? > > > > Tough subject, this commercial aspect... > > > > Rachel Barrett Gallop (Prashanti) > > Women's Studies, Queens College > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > > > Ammachi- > > > > > > Terms of Service > > <> . > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2002 Report Share Posted August 5, 2002 I had $50,000 in medical bills last year from a surgery & hospital stay, luckily I have insurance. But just think what it cost to run AIMS Hospital. Money is always the gripe, but always the reality. Just one more good reason to head for moksha. And about Vibhuti, you'd pay $3.00 for a Tall Cafe Latte at Starbucks, wouldn't you? Whitey testimonial: When I was 16 and working in a mall, I had a pleasant conversation with a Sai Baba devotee who closed our encounter by giving me a little packet of powder. My coworker who saw it said "Dude, all right!!!" But being a good girl, I promptly went into the restroom and flushed it down the toilet. Westerners generally don't know what Vibhuti is, or what to do with it. Amma knows us, so it makes sense to only give it to Non-Indians upon request. Otherwise , it would be wasteful and not cost effective : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2002 Report Share Posted August 6, 2002 The Hindu Temple in Flushing, Queens, always mails a small packet of vibhuti, another of kumkum, and some rock candy to devotees who have requested a puja or other ritual be done for them. During the anthrax crisis, they just sent a note saying, "Such-and-such a puja has been done for you. We are mailing you vibhuti, as it will be misinterpreted as anthrax by the Post Office." I'm a Westerner, and also obviously handicapped. When I come to Ammachi for my hug at darshan, she always gives me a packet of vibhuti, and instructions via one of the <brahmacharyins> -- "Amma says rub this on your neck, and on your injured leg..." -- Len/ Kalipadma On Tue, 06 Aug 2002 08:31:58 -0400 kalima <kalima writes: > This made me giggle a small bit. It does make sense though why the > difference > between chocolate kiss and Vibhuti. Last year right around the time > that white > powder was showing up in mail boxes I recieved a envelope from > Gurudeva's temple > in Kaui. I had bought some books from there on Hinduism and recieved > nice > letters and such from the Temple often. This paticular enevelope has > Vibhuti in > it and my husband who is not Hindu didn't know what it was and got > a tad upset > (he works in NYC and close to were the WTC was so it was > understandable). I had > to keep from giggling as I explained to him what it was and what it > was for and > let him read the letter that came with it. > > Shelly > > Dianadevi wrote: > > > I had $50,000 in medical bills last year from a surgery & hospital > stay, > > luckily I have insurance. But just think what it cost to run AIMS > Hospital. > > > > Money is always the gripe, but always the reality. Just one more > good reason > > to head for moksha. And about Vibhuti, you'd pay $3.00 for a Tall > Cafe Latte > > at Starbucks, wouldn't you? > > > > Whitey testimonial: > > When I was 16 and working in a mall, I had a pleasant conversation > with a Sai > > Baba devotee who closed our encounter by giving me a little packet > of powder. > > My coworker who saw it said "Dude, all right!!!" But being a good > girl, I > > promptly went into the restroom and flushed it down the toilet. > Westerners > > generally don't know what Vibhuti is, or what to do with it. Amma > knows us, > > so it makes sense to only give it to Non-Indians upon request. > Otherwise , it > > would be wasteful and not cost effective : ) > > > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > > > Ammachi > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > -- > Namaste, > > Shelly > Mom to 5 > CT > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > Ammachi > > > Your use of is subject to > > > ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2002 Report Share Posted August 6, 2002 This made me giggle a small bit. It does make sense though why the difference between chocolate kiss and Vibhuti. Last year right around the time that white powder was showing up in mail boxes I recieved a envelope from Gurudeva's temple in Kaui. I had bought some books from there on Hinduism and recieved nice letters and such from the Temple often. This paticular enevelope has Vibhuti in it and my husband who is not Hindu didn't know what it was and got a tad upset (he works in NYC and close to were the WTC was so it was understandable). I had to keep from giggling as I explained to him what it was and what it was for and let him read the letter that came with it. Shelly Dianadevi wrote: > I had $50,000 in medical bills last year from a surgery & hospital stay, > luckily I have insurance. But just think what it cost to run AIMS Hospital. > > Money is always the gripe, but always the reality. Just one more good reason > to head for moksha. And about Vibhuti, you'd pay $3.00 for a Tall Cafe Latte > at Starbucks, wouldn't you? > > Whitey testimonial: > When I was 16 and working in a mall, I had a pleasant conversation with a Sai > Baba devotee who closed our encounter by giving me a little packet of powder. > My coworker who saw it said "Dude, all right!!!" But being a good girl, I > promptly went into the restroom and flushed it down the toilet. Westerners > generally don't know what Vibhuti is, or what to do with it. Amma knows us, > so it makes sense to only give it to Non-Indians upon request. Otherwise , it > would be wasteful and not cost effective : ) > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > Ammachi > > > Your use of is subject to -- Namaste, Shelly Mom to 5 CT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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