Staying On Topic

[Guest guest]

The courtesy of staying *basically* on topic of a given discussion group

is not the same as banning or censoring. I myself am a member of at least

7 different groups, and some of them have a tendency to descend into the

churlish lowest common denominatior rather rapidly. I appreciate

monitoring efforts deeply, "No Amma" content in the subject line or not.

 

Of course, everything is Amma, right? But Rastanga, your second post

about WHY you feel it is important that we Ammachi-L folks pay attention

to the Statist evil implicit in the mask of a war on "terror" is far more

useful to the satsang-type feeling I get the sense a lot of us here are

searching for.

 

I had an experience... oh, it must have been in Guru Purnima in Chicago in

2000, where the dinner conversation (ooh, what a scrumptious meal!!) at my

table had turned to the threat of alien manipulation of our planet's

ecosystem and especially experimentation on the Fauna. And one Sister

made a, for me, strange comment along the lines of "WE are beings of light

and should focus on the good things. That kind of stuff will disrupt your

meditation practice." I think it had already turned from the supernatural

pondering of "Aliens" to more political exhortations. But the thing of it

was that bothered me was the head in the sand attitude that "we" are

somehow higher or more special than the rest of the citizens of the world

and should focus our energy on elevating that field of consciousness

rather than getting ouselves all grounded and dirty in the MUD of human

chaos and near-social catastrophe.

 

Maybe as a scholar of social movements and a teacher who tries to exhort

my college students into believing they can change the injustices of the

world through collective, sustained, nonviolent pursuit of Satya and

Dharma... well, maybe its easier for me to to be part of the rowdy crowd

that sticks nasty news in someone's face, and points howling at the danger

signs. But I was stunned by her "don't foul my spiritual cleansing

process with your nasty news."

 

I don't mean to imply that the Monitor, or anyone else, is sticking

their heads in the sand. But the experience did make me realize that

what's right for me isn't necessarily even listenable by others, at

certain points in their sadhana or evolution or whatever.

 

Maybe we could talk more generally about how to balance inner growth with

outward action and karma in the world? Then if you want to refer to a

piece of news, you can link it into your "for further reference see..."

(or please see, or I urge you to take a look at X because of Y... that

sort of language tag)

 

Much love, Prashanti

[Guest guest]

Yeah here comes Shelly out of her hole. *L*

 

I don't have a problem either with the posts if it was done like it was with

the subject line saying it is off topic and the nature of the topic it does

have. LIke someone else said it gives the option for one to hit that delete

button or read it.

 

I understand fully this list is for talking about our experiance with Amma

and sharing Amma's love with each other. But I also believe that a topic like

this gives us the oppertunity to use what we learn from our Divine Mother and

attempt to make a better world. Yes I am an idealistic person but hey someone

has to be right?

 

When a topic like this comes up one doesnt have to fully get involved it one

can't. But one can pray for the people. Prayer is powerful and I know we all

know this. Are we to only focus on Amma and nothing else in our daily

goings and our spiritual growth? I think not and I believe Amma feels the

same way. We must help others. She wouldnt have all the charities and reach

out to those who need help and are forgotten. She never turns anyone away for

darshan and so our hearts must be the same don't you agree? We must learn

about the horrors of the world as they come to us so we can pray or take

action like our beloved Amma does. Is this not our good works? Is not helping

the supreme meditation?

 

I also believe one cannot grow if one does not experiance horrors and

challenges. Ok maybe not full blown horror we need to experiance here. So

don't toss the rotting veges at me yet. What I mean is when you help others

you grow too. When you hear others are suffering and you help you gain

compassion on many different levels. The daily challenges in our life cause

growth as well.

 

I see the things on topic because I can use the love I get for Amma in prayer

to those who need it. Or I can do something to help.

 

Om Shanti,

 

Shelly

Mommy to 5

CT

[Guest guest]

Greetings Sistren and Bredren

in the name of the most High,

Mata Amritanandamayi

ever faithful, ever sure.

 

One of the first things that I noticed when I

saw Amma is that she is one with Jesus

(Eyesos Christos).

 

InI considers himself to be a follower of Christ of

the of the coptic orthodox tradition.

 

Therefore, if you have the eyes to see, you

will not find this post "off-topic" just because

I use the name and teaching of Jesus to

present my points.

 

To them who see themselves as the keepers

of the "Amma on topic" InI says:

 

"One Sabbath when he (Jesus) went to dine at the house of

a ruler who belonged to the Pharisees, they were watching

him. And behold, there was a man before him who had dropsy.

And Jesus spoke to the lawyers and Pharisees, saying,

"Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath, or not?"

But they were silent. Then he took him and healed him,

and let him go. And he said to them, "Which of you,

having a son or an ox that has fallen into a well,

will not immediately pull him out on a Sabbath day?"

And they could not reply to this." Luke 14: 1-6

All parents would recall the times when they had to

wake up their children so they could go to school.

Oh, is so good to sleep, please give me a few more

minutes. You give them a few minutes and go back

to them, and they want more time to stay in bed,

not wanting to open their eyes to their

resposabilities.

 

Jesus did not ignore the EVIL. Jesus did not fall

back from the EVIL. Jesus did not let his human fear

of pain and death stop him from that confrontation

and the prize won.

 

Jesus is a Spiritual Warrior and a Teacher.

 

His personification by Christians is not this way.

 

Christians believe that Jesus saved them.

 

But Truth be known that no person who lies down

with EVIL is saved.

 

We got to bed with EVIL when we turn our faces away form

it, to satify our comodities and therefore forming part

EVIL and even feeding it (with our taxes, and even working

directly for them, like the war mercenaries that think

their work is just a "job"). We go to bed with EVIL when

we block our Sistrens and Bredrens from getting access

to the LIGHT, because we ourselves do not what to see

the TRUTH that the LIGHT exposes to us.

 

Jesus went to the fig tree (the symbol of the Nation

of Isreal) in March, before it flowered, before it could

possably bear fruit.

 

Jesus said to the tree, "You will not feed me."

 

Jesus cursed the tree and the next day it had

withered and died.

 

Did Jesus hallucinate that the tree should have fed him

when no fig tree in the nation could have fed him out of

season? NO! Jesus needed to show us that he had the

power to kill as well as to heal and feed and

raise from the dead.

 

Each one in the flesh has the chance to overcome

the flesh and to rise in overstanding of the Kingdom

of JAH. Im a sure you recall the many times that Jesus

said that his Kingdom was not of this world

 

We do not come to this world to vacation, we come

to open our eyes to the LIGHT and that sometimes makes

us feel naked and dirty.

 

-----

"Until the philosophy which holds one race superior and

another inferior is finally and permanently discredited

and abandoned...there will be war". H.I.M Haile Selassie I

[Guest guest]

Ammachi, Rachel Barrett Gallop <mart0167@t...> wrote:

> The courtesy of staying *basically* on topic of a given discussion

group

> is not the same as banning or censoring. I myself am a member of

at least

> 7 different groups, and some of them have a tendency to descend

into the

> churlish lowest common denominatior rather rapidly. I appreciate

> monitoring efforts deeply, "No Amma" content in the subject line or

not.

 

 

Even placing labels in the Subject line, still creates the same

problem as email Spamming. People will have to scan through many

messages to find messages relevant to this list. It will certainly

save time for those who receive email messages/digests from this

list. Even though the moderator has the ability to delete posts,

it doesn't keep it from going out in the mailings for that day.

 

I thought it was Amma or maybe from one of Swami P's satsang tapes,

that he says a sadhak (notice "sadhak", not just devotee) shouldn't

watch the news because (my words:) the depressing reality of the

world's problems will be a distraction in your mind. At a S.Sai

Baba satsang (now defunct) where they used to pray for whatever

anybody wanted, it became quite the clearing house for the world's

problems. It only took one person to ask to pray for victims of a

local disaster, then someone would add abortion fetus victims,

another would add cancer victims, world hunger, lost dogs and

cats... Next thing you know, it wasn't satsang and your mind was

flooded with depressing thoughts. The problem with that satsang was

that the original purpose was satsang, not a prayer group which it

turned out to be. Maybe someone can start a separate "Amma and the

World" discussion list for off-topic discussion and efforts to change

the world.

 

just my thoughts,

tom

[Guest guest]

Ammachi, "tomgull" <tomgull@m...> wrote:

> I thought it was Amma or maybe from one of Swami P's satsang tapes,

> that he says a sadhak (notice "sadhak", not just devotee) shouldn't

> watch the news because (my words:) the depressing reality of the

> world's problems will be a distraction in your mind.

 

Dear Tom,

 

Are you saing that Amma teaches her childern to avoid being

aware of what is happerning in this world?

 

And that the reason is that "world's problems will be a

distraction in your mind"?

 

Why then ask for money to help the victims of floods and

earthquakes in India, to heal the sick, and to

shelter the homeless?

 

Bredren, InI does not understand this reasoning of yours.

[Guest guest]

Ammachi, "rastanaga" <rastanaga> wrote:

> Ammachi, "tomgull" <tomgull@m...> wrote:

> > I thought it was Amma or maybe from one of Swami P's satsang

tapes,

> > that he says a sadhak (notice "sadhak", not just devotee)

shouldn't

> > watch the news because (my words:) the depressing reality of the

> > world's problems will be a distraction in your mind.

>

> Dear Tom,

>

> Are you saing that Amma teaches her childern to avoid being

> aware of what is happerning in this world?

>

> And that the reason is that "world's problems will be a

> distraction in your mind"?

>

> Why then ask for money to help the victims of floods and

> earthquakes in India, to heal the sick, and to

> shelter the homeless?

>

> Bredren, InI does not understand this reasoning of yours.

 

I consider myself a sadhak, but I feel it would be irresponsible for

me to not stay tuned in to the current events of the world. Until the

day I decide to live in a cave in the Himalaya's and meditate 24/7, I

think I'll opt for staying tuned in to the state and conditions of

the world. I think it's very important to develop detatchment and

dispassion so that one can watch these things without feeling

completely bombarded and inflicted with negative energy. Perhaps

during the initial stages of sadhana this is not possible (but it

could be a yogic practise in itself for these ends). Along with

seeing these horrors of the world, it is essential to develop

compassion. Our Amma has supreme compassion, but also supreme

detachment. If she didn't have this detachment, I think she would

have burnt out long ago. She wouldn't be who she is. I think it's

okay to get the news either by newspaper, CNN, or whatever, and then

to turn it off. Just don't become addicted to watching too much of

it...this is unecessary.

 

Lisa

[Guest guest]

Namah Shivaya

 

As for my own two cents, I think that the manner in which Rastanaga

presented his post "{OFF TOPIC} etc" is totally acceptable. This way a

reader does not even have to open the email to decide whether to read it

or delete it. Handy invention, the delete key.

 

This child does not feel that censorship of the list is necessary,

especially off-topic postings are made in this manner.

 

Jab, Jai MA!

Prasadini

 

 

rastanaga wrote:

 

> Ammachi, "tomgull" <tomgull@m...> wrote:

> > I thought it was Amma or maybe from one of Swami P's satsang tapes,

> > that he says a sadhak (notice "sadhak", not just devotee) shouldn't

> > watch the news because (my words:) the depressing reality of the

> > world's problems will be a distraction in your mind.

>

> Dear Tom,

>

> Are you saing that Amma teaches her childern to avoid being

> aware of what is happerning in this world?

>

> And that the reason is that "world's problems will be a

> distraction in your mind"?

>

> Why then ask for money to help the victims of floods and

> earthquakes in India, to heal the sick, and to

> shelter the homeless?

>

> Bredren, InI does not understand this reasoning of yours.

>

>

> Sponsor

[image]

>

> Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!

>

> Ammachi

>

>

>

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

You know what the static is Rastanaga? We all don't share and understand

(innastand) I&I philosophy. We are not all Rastafarian and therefore the

I-logic and Nayabinghi reasongings and contemplations aren't totally

understood, we all aren't sharing in your dogma. Many here don't know where

you are coming from, and don't share your religious discipline (Rastafari

"reasonings" which is a form of conscientious meditation). You are opening

the door to another view, but also to misunderstanding. I lived in a

Rastafari household with a group of bredren & sistren, so I understand

(overstand). I think it is cool that you're sharing your version of

spirituality, but with specifics of dogma should be mindful and respectful

that we all have different traditions under Amma here as Amma is not a

religion, however, Amma is a Hindu Swami so Hinduism is what we all

understand and can relate to. Rastafari as you know, is very anti the Pope

and the Roman Catholic Church what if we had a Catholic devotee here who saw

Ammachi as the Virgin Mary and went on consistently in that vein? Would

disagreements ensue?

 

 

In a message dated 9/6/02 1:14:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

Ammachi writes:

 

<< "rastanaga" <rastanaga

Re: Staying On Topic >>

[Guest guest]

Just my thoughts...

I receive the digest form of this group. So all the posts come in one

big long email. I'd personally appreciate off-topic posts to be

brief, and give us perhaps a website that we can go to to read

the details about it. I do like being informed about the things

that Rastanaga has posted, but I want to have a little more choice

about whether I have to read or scroll through the whole big

long thing or not. That is my preference.

Blessings,

Connie

[Guest guest]

Dear Sisters and Brothers,

 

This will be my last post, since it seems that I was banned from the

list. I would like to respond to Dianadevi.

 

Ammachi, Dianadevi@a... wrote:

> You know what the static is Rastanaga? We all don't

> share and understand

> (innastand) I&I philosophy. We are not all Rastafarian

> and therefore the

> I-logic and Nayabinghi reasongings and contemplations

> aren't totally understood,

 

Dear Dianadevi,

 

The "static", in my view has to do more with personalities,

than with philosophy.

 

I will try to write in such a way, that all can understand.

 

> we all aren't sharing in your dogma.

 

Should I interpret from this that you feel like I am trying

to change your path? This has never been my intention.

I am on record in this list saying that we all need to follow

our own paths. I do not see how you have come to this conclusion

that I am pushing "my dogma"(?). If you mean by that I have

presented a different point of view, then you are correct.

But dont we all here?

 

> Many here don't know where

> you are coming from, and don't share your religious

> discipline (Rastafari

> "reasonings" which is a form of conscientious meditation).

 

I am aware that many do not know were im "coming from". It seems

to me that this also applies to many others in the list. Do I

know where everybody is "coming from", of course not. We are

here exchanging our spiritual experiences. However it seems that

when I express my thoughts you tend to get upset about it.

It is my view that this is a problem inside yourself, and not

in me. Since there is no way I can make you upset from here.

Only you can do that to yourself.

> You are opening

> the door to another view, but also to misunderstanding.

> I lived in a

> Rastafari household with a group of bredren & sistren,

> so I understand

> (overstand). I think it is cool that you're sharing your version of

> spirituality, but with specifics of dogma should be mindful

> and respectful

> that we all have different traditions under Amma here as

> Amma is not a religion,

 

Rastafari is not an organized religion. Like in all faith people

come to Rastafari because of different reasons. Some come because

they hear the call of the shepherd in their hearts. Others,

come because they think is "cool". These last ones do not last,

like in any other faith.

 

> however, Amma is a Hindu Swami so Hinduism is what we all

> understand and can relate to.

 

Amma has said many times that she is much more than a "Hindu Swami".

 

Should I understand that if one goes to Amma, one need to become

a Hindu? My experience of 10 years seeing Amma does not agree with

what you are saying.

 

 

> Rastafari as you know, is very anti the Pope

> and the Roman Catholic Church

 

The Popes and the Catholic Church has made many mistakes

trough history. It has been involved in many scandals.

This is not to say that all Popes were bad or that all

Catholics are evil. We all know this is not true.

 

Now, if you were Black, maybe you would see things different.

Since it is the Black people that has paid the Highest for

the enrichment of the whites not only in this land, but

in other European countries.May I remind you that slaves were

traded with the "pope's" blessings? How long does it took

for the Chatolic Church to act againts child molesters, and for

how long has this been going on? Is not the Chatolic Church one

of the Richest Corporations of the world? Is not money the root

of most evil in this world? This is history, we can not

change that.

 

> what if we had a Catholic devotee here who saw

> Ammachi as the Virgin Mary and went on consistently in that vein?

 

 

The roots of Rastafari are in the Coptic Church. Haile Selassie I,

was a member of the Etiopian Coptic Church. If you care to use

google, you can find many mosaics of the Virgin Mary in Coptic

Churches.

 

It was the Protestant Reformation that largely killed the

cult of Mary.

 

I myself is a devotee of the Virgin Mary, in the form of the

"Virgen de la Guadalupe", and "Virgen Milagrosa".

 

Please do not label me this or that. I, like Ramakrishna, have found

God in may places. From primitive African Caribbean religions like

the "Yoruba Santeria", to the feet of Amma. You are talking to

a man that will be 49 years of age, and that has been studying

and learning about "religions" since I was 16. I have seen

many teachers, I have been in good places, and in not so good

places. I do not claim to know all. I am here to learn, from

you and the others in this list.

 

Please understand that I am coming from the heart, no where

else.

 

Dear sister, I think that you have good intentions but the

wrong information.

 

One Love, One Life.

Rasta Naga

[Guest guest]

Amma's "devotees" are varied in devotion, sadhana, worldliness,

etc. Amma does not teach isolationism. Howevere a person cannot

develop a quiet mind or "dispassion" if it is overflowing with

compassion to the point that a person works themself to death

literally, trying to end the world's suffering.

 

If you are truly trying to reach God in this life, and honestly,

looking at the efforts of the general spiritual population, most are

not (sincerity is not the same as earnestness), then you should only

stay informed of the world's problems as it is your dharma. For

example, if you work as a financial advisor, it will help you do your

job to keep informed of the world's events. Or, if you're a parent

and need to keep updated on childcare techniques, medicines, etc.

Another example is if you are doing Karma Yoga as part of your

sadhana, then it would obviously be good to know where you might be

of service.

 

> Dear Tom,

>

> Are you saing that Amma teaches her childern to avoid being

> aware of what is happerning in this world?

>

> And that the reason is that "world's problems will be a

> distraction in your mind"?

>

> Why then ask for money to help the victims of floods and

> earthquakes in India, to heal the sick, and to

> shelter the homeless?

>

> Bredren, InI does not understand this reasoning of yours.