Vegetarianism & science

[Guest guest]

In regard to the discussion below, human most closely resemble omnivores on

all physiological accounts. There were a lot of myths promoted in the 1970s

about humans being closer to "vegetarian" animals, and I for one helped to

spread this myth. One of the best articles I've read that dispels this myth

is an essay in the book "Vegan Handbook"edited by Debra Wasserman. The

article, "Humans Are Omnivores," is written by primatologist and anatomist

Dr. John McArdle, who is himself a vegetarian (as I have been for 26 years

now). It's too scientific of an article to go into (some of it I can't even

understand), but he says the evidence of humans being classic examples of

omnivores involves cell types, fermenting vats, jaws, salivary lands, and

intestines.

Also, a lot of the research on primates has shown that most of them get

animal proteins in ways initially not detected-- such as eating egg larvae on

leaves, insects, etc. Even a lot of "vegetarian" animals eat the soil and

its inhabitants that are pulled up as they uproot vegetables. These have

often been shown to be integral to their diets, points initially overlooked.

They also have fermenting vats in their stomachs to help them derive

nutrients from their plant foods (we have no such vats). Dr. McArdle's

article points out, "Our closest relatives among the apes are the chimpanzees

[i.e. anatomically, behaviorally, genetically, and evolutionarily], who

frequently kill and eat other mammals [including other primates]."

Because of all this, I consider my lacto-ovo-vegetarian diet (dairy and eggs

plus all creative and delicious veggie options) to be an adaptation of what

is naturally an omnivorous diet. This is different from in the 1970s when

many budding vegetarians (and a few fruitarians) thought that humans were

naturally vegans or fruitarians and that every piece of animal product

(dairy, eggs, flesh) was a detriment to our health. Some people absolutely

can't be vegetarian-- I met one women when I was working in a health food

store who desperately wanted to be a vegetarian but told me she had a genetic

trait that made it impossible for her to extract certain nutrients from

plants, and eggs and dairy wouldn't compensate for that. She's the only

person I've ever known with this trait, but I have had other customers tell

me about genetic traits that force them to take certain supplements. Other

people I know-- especially some women-- can have tremendous problems with

anemia when strict vegetarian. To a certain extant, it depends of the

person's individual physiology how well a certain diet will agree with them.

Obviously I don't think many of us would be long-term vegetarians if the diet

hadn't agreed so well with our bodies. I'm not sure if the blood-type diet

theory fits in here, because I've never heard of any long-term research that

tracked people who did and did not follow those diets over long periods of

time and then compared their health. It still sounds very theoretical to me

at this point, so I won't comment on that concept until some serious research

is accomplished.

Heavy meat eaters can certainly have their health problems as well, but

what's causing things such as hardening of the arteries is still up for

debate-- is it the fat or is it fat in combination with high amounts of

corn-based sugars? The evidence isn't in on that one yet, and the info

about nutrition in general is slow coming because it is so hard to do good

controlled research on humans for obvious reasons! However, we do know from

Dr. Dean Ornish's research that if you rip every shred of animal fat out of

person's diet you can reverse their heart disease in many cases.

As for longevity and vegetarianism, I had heard of research in the 70s or

80s that said vegetarians live an average of 3-7 years longer than omnivores.

But recently I read in the book "Nourishing Traditions" (which has a

stridently anti-veggie tone) that said that population studies had revealed

that vegetarians from South India had the worst longevity in the world!

Clearly more research needs to be done on this.

-=-- hari om==- Nick P.S. Just for the fun of it, here's what I ate

yesterday when cruising around the Chicago area:

Breakfast on the run to the Jain temple: Sunflower seeds (wow, big one)

Lunch, Gujarati-style:

kasta kachori: deep fried bread rounds with garbonzo beans, mint sauce, date

sauce, raw onions, and crispy noodles)

dahi wada: a bread-type donut in yogurt sauce.

kaman dokla: chickpea flower bread with coriander leaves topping

Dinner in the Middle East mode:

Falafel sandwich

yogurt-mint salad

humus with fresh pita bread

 

> What I find odd is the notion that humans are somehow more in tune

> with God/Creator/Nature on a vegetarian diet when the design of human

> physiology is so clearly that of an omnivore.

>

I¹m not qualified to argue the scientific details of this, but I¹ve often

read analyses of our teeth and digestive systems which argue that we most

closely resemble the great apes, who eat fruit and are not carnivores.

>

> As for fruitarianism, how many places on Earth naturally have a

> plentiful year-round supply of fruit? Nature's own seasonal cycles

> should tell us that a year round fruitarian diet is not natural.

>

A lot of people don¹t have the opportunity or the luxury to learn and

practice spiritual disciplines either. If you can be a vegetarian, I¹d say

it¹s a blessing. But not all can. An Eskimo, even if he had the food shipped

in, would probably die on that diet in that climate. Maharishi¹s quote on

this: ³If you have to eat someone, eat lesser evolved life.² That gives you

plenty of latitude to do the best you can in your circumstances.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/4/2002 11:50:56 AM Pacific Standard Time, SoulQuest7

writes:

 

 

> They also have fermenting vats in their stomachs to help them derive

> nutrients from their plant foods (we have no such vats)

 

OOPS! When I said this I shouldn't have plopped it into the primates section.

This is what vegetarian animals have (like cattle and dear), probably not

any primates most of whom are omnivores. It pays to read your own posts.

=== om-=== Nick

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/4/2002 1:40:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,

johnny_tesla writes:

 

 

> <<As for the vegetarians of South India, I bet their longevity is tied

> more to tropical diseases and a lack of adequate sanitation and

> healthcare than their diets>>

 

Yes, but the research was comparing veggie South Indian with omnivore South

Indians, then comparing that with worldwide statistics. It's just that

veggies from that part of the world fared the worst of anywhere on any diet.

Perhaps the omnivore South Indians get plent of fish (logical for that part

of the country) was supplying minerals that the depleted soil used to grow

veggies could no longer supply. Who knows-- more research! == om-== Nick

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Ammachi, SoulQuest7@a... wrote:

> But recently I read in the book "Nourishing Traditions" (which

> has a stridently anti-veggie tone) that said that population

> studies had revealed that vegetarians from South India had the

> worst longevity in the world!

 

The "Nourishing Traditions" crowd is largely the polar opposite of

the vegan extremists. I hang out on several of the NT ,

and I've learned a lot. But my body, even though it's anemic, tells

me that it doesn't want a diet containing as much meat as they seem

to need. They also treat soy as if it's some kind of virulent poison,

but I have a feeling the little bit of soymilk I enjoy in my morning

tea is perfectly fine. I think the most valuable concept in

Nourishing Traditions, and one that is valid for vegans and

meat-eaters alike, is the emphasis on traditional, authentic foods as

opposed to the processed, factory food found in most grocery stores.

I also think a major issue is Omega 6:3 imbalance due to the last 100

years of large scale agriculture drastically changing human

nutrition.

 

As for the vegetarians of South India, I bet their longevity is tied

more to tropical diseases and a lack of adequate sanitation and

healthcare than their diets. But, if their diets are loaded with

cheap, processed vegetable oil, they're likely to suffer the same

ills we're burdened with in the affluent West.

 

> Clearly more research needs to be done on this.

 

No doubt.

 

To bring this back to the topic of Amma, I had run into an Amma

devotee online in another forum who said Amma emphasized the

spiritual benefits of food without pungent spices. My immediate

thought was to heck with spirituality if it means eating food with no

flavor. With that in mind, you can imagine my delight when I broke

out in a sweat eating the spicy Indian lunch they served during

Amma's visit to Mt. Pleasant, Iowa. I was expecting rice, dahl, and

veggies that had, perhaps, been shown a photo of a bottle of churna.

[Guest guest]

I¹m told that the food in Amma¹s ashram in India is much too spicy for most

Westerners to handle.

 

> To bring this back to the topic of Amma, I had run into an Amma

> devotee online in another forum who said Amma emphasized the

> spiritual benefits of food without pungent spices. My immediate

> thought was to heck with spirituality if it means eating food with no

> flavor. With that in mind, you can imagine my delight when I broke

> out in a sweat eating the spicy Indian lunch they served during

> Amma's visit to Mt. Pleasant, Iowa. I was expecting rice, dahl, and

> veggies that had, perhaps, been shown a photo of a bottle of churna.

>

>