hi all...a question

November 29, 2002

Dear Christine:

> Do I still

> have a place on this list and if I wanted to partake

> of Devi Bhava at one of her retreats?

Indeed, you are most welcome! Listen to your Heart!

Let me be very personal for a moment. This only applies to me and I do not

promote others to follow my understandings - that is their choice soully (pun

intended) <grin>.

I don't consider myself Hindu even if I could. Which I can't considering I

wasn't born into one of their "castes". I have even been bared form entering

into some of their temples just because I am not Hindu. Nor do I consider

myself exclusively to any religion.

Why? Because I clearly separate Religions from Spiritual.

Religions create belief systems all of which come from the mind. If not

yours, then someone else's mind.

Spiritualness is in involved with the Heart. That is the pathway to God.

Religious people spend more time talking or thinking about God. Spiritual

types are experiencing God.

You only truly KNOW anything by experiencing it. You don't need the

explanations. Explanations belong to the mind which loves to dominate over

the Heart. So, most people do not trust their own experience and prefer to

accept someone else's belief system instead!

Religions create separation from God. "Our Father who are in Heaven, etc.".

Well if Heaven is the Heart, I can agree. But people reason from their mind

that they are not in this glorious place called Heaven yet God is there. So,

they must be separate from God.

BTW, these words I quoted were not the words of Jesus. I read somewhere that

these words were deliberately altered and the original was more like "My

Father who dwells within me".

Spiritual types KNOW there is no separation from God. They know that it is

totally impossible to be separate from God. We may think we are separate at

times but that is only a thought from the mind.

I have met many religious people who considered themselves Spiritual. In my

books, they only THINK they are Spiritual. They are still in their minds.

They got the wrong body part!

Amma is the Truth and Love for me because that is what I experience being

connected with Her - be it near Her physical body or feeling Her in my Heart.

So, please pardon me for jumping on your words. As far as I am concerned, if

you feel attracted to Amma, you are most welcome to here on this list or

anywhere else you care to Be.

So, ignore your mind. Listen to your Heart.

Peter

November 29, 2002

Hello everyone,

I've been struggling over the last few months with the

fact that I am not Hindu (I am Gnostic/Christian) but

I still love and am very drawn to Ammachi. Do I still

have a place on this list and if I wanted to partake

of Devi Bhava at one of her retreats? My heart tells

me YES: that Mother accepts all people, regardless of

religion, as Her children. But sometimes I feel very

lost on this list because some unfamiliar practices

are described quite often. Believe me, I *love* to

learn about them ~~ but I just can't help but wonder

if it's okay to be ME here? Even though I'm not the

same religion, I feel as though I'm the same

SPIRITUALITY...if that makes any sense.

Much love,

Christine

P.S. I really hope that nobody takes offense to this

post! I don't mean to offend at all.

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November 29, 2002

Dearest Christine,

It is my understanding that anyone who loves

Amma is most welcome on this list! Don't worry

about the technical parts, like what name to

call oneself. I don't really consider myself

Hindu either. Last summer in Iowa,I approached a

couple of lovely Indian ladies of my acquaintance

and jokingly said, "I thought I'd come and hang with

the Hindus..." They began giggling so hard they

couldn't talk, and then one of them gasped, "We don't

know what we are anymore!" This illustrates that Amma

doesn't care about names, even flies in the face of

some tenets of Hinduism. All She cares about is the

state of our heart, that love that has found its

truest expression in our Divine Mother. Welcome

to the list!

Jai Ma,

Jyotsna

--- "Christine C." <chloedancer333 wrote:

> Hello everyone,

>

> I've been struggling over the last few months with

> the

> fact that I am not Hindu (I am Gnostic/Christian)

> but

> I still love and am very drawn to Ammachi. Do I

> still

> have a place on this list and if I wanted to partake

> of Devi Bhava at one of her retreats? My heart

> tells

> me YES: that Mother accepts all people, regardless

> of

> religion, as Her children. But sometimes I feel

> very

> lost on this list because some unfamiliar practices

> are described quite often. Believe me, I *love* to

> learn about them ~~ but I just can't help but wonder

> if it's okay to be ME here? Even though I'm not the

> same religion, I feel as though I'm the same

> SPIRITUALITY...if that makes any sense.

>

> Much love,

> Christine

>

> P.S. I really hope that nobody takes offense to this

> post! I don't mean to offend at all.

>

> Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up

> now.

> http://mailplus.

>

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November 29, 2002

Thank you so much, Ellen and Peter. Your lovely sentiments have

helped me to feel so much better and more comfortable here. :-)

Lots of love in Amma,

Christine

Ammachi, pwhite0130@a... wrote:

> Dear Christine:

>

> > Do I still

> > have a place on this list and if I wanted to partake

> > of Devi Bhava at one of her retreats?

>

> Indeed, you are most welcome! Listen to your Heart!

>

> Let me be very personal for a moment. This only applies to me and I

do not

> promote others to follow my understandings - that is their choice

soully (pun

> intended) <grin>.

>

> I don't consider myself Hindu even if I could. Which I can't

considering I

> wasn't born into one of their "castes". I have even been bared form

entering

> into some of their temples just because I am not Hindu. Nor do I

consider

> myself exclusively to any religion.

>

> Why? Because I clearly separate Religions from Spiritual.

>

> Religions create belief systems all of which come from the mind. If

not

> yours, then someone else's mind.

>

> Spiritualness is in involved with the Heart. That is the pathway to

God.

>

> Religious people spend more time talking or thinking about God.

Spiritual

> types are experiencing God.

>

> You only truly KNOW anything by experiencing it. You don't need the

> explanations. Explanations belong to the mind which loves to

dominate over

> the Heart. So, most people do not trust their own experience and

prefer to

> accept someone else's belief system instead!

>

> Religions create separation from God. "Our Father who are in

Heaven, etc.".

> Well if Heaven is the Heart, I can agree. But people reason from

their mind

> that they are not in this glorious place called Heaven yet God is

there. So,

> they must be separate from God.

>

> BTW, these words I quoted were not the words of Jesus. I read

somewhere that

> these words were deliberately altered and the original was more

like "My

> Father who dwells within me".

>

> Spiritual types KNOW there is no separation from God. They know

that it is

> totally impossible to be separate from God. We may think we are

separate at

> times but that is only a thought from the mind.

>

> I have met many religious people who considered themselves

Spiritual. In my

> books, they only THINK they are Spiritual. They are still in their

minds.

> They got the wrong body part!

>

> Amma is the Truth and Love for me because that is what I experience

being

> connected with Her - be it near Her physical body or feeling Her in

my Heart.

>

> So, please pardon me for jumping on your words. As far as I am

concerned, if

> you feel attracted to Amma, you are most welcome to here on this

list or

> anywhere else you care to Be.

>

> So, ignore your mind. Listen to your Heart.

>

> Peter

>

November 30, 2002

Dear Christine,

I am one of the silent members on the list. I greatly, greatly

appreciate anyone who writes about their experiences with Amma on

this site, and this list fulfills a need I have to know about other's

experiences with Amma, and it helps me to feel closer to Amma.

Thank you for having the list.

Due to my situation and physical isolation, and my physically

handicapps and disabilities, I am usually only able to see Amma at

one site on Her tour each year.

This year I saw Amma in London. In question line I asked Amma if

it would be good to bring my mother and brother to see Her. Amma

answered yes,if they had the desire or wanted to.

To that end I have photocopied and mailed to my 78 yr.old mother

part of an article that is in the Nov. issue of the Matruvani

newsletter, published by Amma's ashram in India, telling about

Amma's recent visit to the U.N. Peace Summit in Geneva, Switz..

Maybe you would find it interesting to read, and so I am posting part

of it here.

The following are excerpts from that article,beginning on page 11:

" Then Ms. Debra Olsen of One Voice International introduced a female

fire fighter hailing from New York to Amma, saying "This is Jennifer.

She has come fron New York. She was present at the WTC on the day of

the terrorist attack to help extinguish the fire. She has not fully

recovered from the shock of that disaster. Amma should bless

her.

"Jennifer has no belief in God or in any religion. But she has

love and compassion towards the suffering. Is there any need for her

to pray to any god?"

"God is love and compassion towards the suffering. If one has such

a heart, there is no need for God," Amma replied. "

What a beautiful message Amma gives to us here.

I do not know if my mother beleives in God or not, and she does not

believe in any religion, as far as I know. But she does believe in

Love. So, I will wait and see what she wants, and accept that.

I have been going to see Amma yearly since 1993. She accepts and

gives love to everyone, from every walk and way of life,and this is

NO EXAGGERATION ...I have seen it...---from motorcyle toughs in

leather and chains,... to a dishelved alocoholic from the street,..

to those that no one else wants to accept or be near,.. to someone

newly diagnosed with cancer who has never seen Amma before and does

not really know anything about Her...., Amma takes us all as a

mother takes her own child, and helps and guides us.

Love and Best Wishes to you,

Sara

-- In Ammachi, "Christine C." <chloedancer333> wrote:

> Hello everyone,

>

> I've been struggling over the last few months with the

> fact that I am not Hindu (I am Gnostic/Christian) but

> I still love and am very drawn to Ammachi. Do I still

> have a place on this list and if I wanted to partake

> of Devi Bhava at one of her retreats? My heart tells

> me YES: that Mother accepts all people, regardless of

> religion, as Her children. But sometimes I feel very

> lost on this list because some unfamiliar practices

> are described quite often. Believe me, I *love* to

> learn about them ~~ but I just can't help but wonder

> if it's okay to be ME here? Even though I'm not the

> same religion, I feel as though I'm the same

> SPIRITUALITY...if that makes any sense.

>

> Much love,

> Christine

>

> P.S. I really hope that nobody takes offense to this

> post! I don't mean to offend at all.

>

> Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.

> http://mailplus.

November 30, 2002

Thank you from the depths of my heart, Sara. That was

a very beautiful post, and it brought tears to my

eyes. Thank you again for your kindness.

Lots of love,

Christine

> Dear Christine,

> I am one of the silent members on the list. I

> greatly, greatly

> appreciate anyone who writes about their

> experiences with Amma on

> this site, and this list fulfills a need I have to

> know about other's

> experiences with Amma, and it helps me to feel

> closer to Amma.

> Thank you for having the list.

> Due to my situation and physical isolation,

> and my physically

> handicapps and disabilities, I am usually only able

> to see Amma at

> one site on Her tour each year.

> This year I saw Amma in London. In question line

> I asked Amma if

> it would be good to bring my mother and brother to

> see Her. Amma

> answered yes,if they had the desire or wanted to.

> To that end I have photocopied and mailed to my 78

> yr.old mother

> part of an article that is in the Nov. issue of the

> Matruvani

> newsletter, published by Amma's ashram in India,

> telling about

> Amma's recent visit to the U.N. Peace Summit in

> Geneva, Switz..

> Maybe you would find it interesting to read, and so

> I am posting part

> of it here.

>

> The following are excerpts from that

> article,beginning on page 11:

>

> " Then Ms. Debra Olsen of One Voice International

> introduced a female

> fire fighter hailing from New York to Amma, saying

> "This is Jennifer.

> She has come fron New York. She was present at the

> WTC on the day of

> the terrorist attack to help extinguish the fire.

> She has not fully

> recovered from the shock of that disaster. Amma

> should bless

> her.

> "Jennifer has no belief in God or in any

> religion. But she has

> love and compassion towards the suffering. Is there

> any need for her

> to pray to any god?"

>

> "God is love and compassion towards the

> suffering. If one has such

> a heart, there is no need for God," Amma replied. "

>

> What a beautiful message Amma gives to us here.

>

> I do not know if my mother beleives in God or not,

> and she does not

> believe in any religion, as far as I know. But she

> does believe in

> Love. So, I will wait and see what she wants, and

> accept that.

>

> I have been going to see Amma yearly since 1993. She

> accepts and

> gives love to everyone, from every walk and way of

> life,and this is

> NO EXAGGERATION ...I have seen it...---from

> motorcyle toughs in

> leather and chains,... to a dishelved alocoholic

> from the street,..

> to those that no one else wants to accept or be

> near,.. to someone

> newly diagnosed with cancer who has never seen Amma

> before and does

> not really know anything about Her...., Amma takes

> us all as a

> mother takes her own child, and helps and guides us.

> Love and Best Wishes to you,

> Sara

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November 30, 2002

Jai Surrdha:

> For a long time I

> was bothered by the fact that some people will not accept our family

> because of our beliefs. I then discovered that no matter how much I

> listen to them explain why I just can't get my mind to undertand and

> can't understand how someone cannont be kind and loving to someone

> outside their own faith.

Thank you for sharing this.

I got on the Spiritual path after I graduated from college. (Actually, we are

always on the Spiritual Path, I just realized it then). After all the years,

most of my life at that time, I put into getting a degree I sudden realized

that I had all this knowledge but it was not what I wanted to know!

First, I pickup Yoganandra's Autobiography book, then got into TM, etc., etc.

I was certainly viewed as weird following some cult ... well you all know the

rest, I am sure.

Once I had a dear Aunt whom I rarely got to visit. She was always helping

everybody and very religious. Many years went by. One time I visited her in

her senior years. Her second husband was dying. She told me a very close and

dear friend had chosen to live with a man and their was much love between

them. She and her partner were living together but not in the bounds of

marriage. My Aunt could not bring herself to continue the friendship because

her friend was living in sin. She grieved over the loss of the friendship she

choose to kill.

I came close to questioning her beliefs but did not. I sure wondered and

question how such a very devote Christian could kill a loving relationship

because it did not fit her rigid beliefs. She lost my admiration and respect

as a result.

I have well found that you can be on very, very thin ice very quickly when

you challenge someone else's beliefs. People don't want their beliefs

challenged. They think that is who they are and they will not look outside of

their box. Most don't even create their own beliefs. Rather, they want to be

told what to believe by someone else.

Is this not ignorance?

So, if they can persuade you to believe as they do, then that makes them

secure. It reinforces to them their beliefs are correct. They feel

"comfortable".

Wow. If you're looking for "comfort", being on the Spiritual Path is the last

place you want to be!

We cannot change the consciousness of others. We can present the opportunity

for them to grow but it must be up to them to do so. We can water the tree

but the tree must grow by itself.

Just as you have done.

Peter

November 30, 2002

Your heart is telling you the answer. :-)

And one only needs to look to Amma for this answer. For a long time I

was bothered by the fact that some people will not accept our family

because of our beliefs. I then discovered that no matter how much I

listen to them explain why I just can't get my mind to undertand and

can't understand how someone cannont be kind and loving to someone

outside their own faith. I believe this is why I love our dear Amma so

much. She loves everyone and to me this has always been the core of my

entire belief system. Very simple I suppose but I guess for some it is

hard to grasp.

If you were to come to my home you would find me a white Irish girl

practicing Hinduism, my husband who looks very Norse is actually part

Native American and he follows Shamanism. I have two children who follow

my path and two who are two young really to have a path except pure love

(which is the best in my eyes) and then my oldest daughter who's room is

decorated with many different images of the Divine Mother from the

Blessed Virgin Mary to Sekhmet an Egyptian Goddess. She also has been

attending saturday Islamic classes for the past two month. Her goal is

to learn Arabic and then travel to where she is needed to help others

learn to read and write. But she wanted to learn the Islamic faith as

well because she believe as do we all in this house that no one should

be forced to learn or better themselves and be forced to change thier

spiritual beliefs.

Opps I have gone off the subject.

Welcome to the list !

Om Shanti,

Surrdha

Mommy to 5

CT

November 30, 2002

on 11/30/02 8:50 PM, pwhite0130 at pwhite0130 wrote:

> I have well found that you can be on very, very thin ice very quickly when

> you challenge someone else's beliefs. People don't want their beliefs

> challenged. They think that is who they are and they will not look outside of

> their box. Most don't even create their own beliefs. Rather, they want to be

> told what to believe by someone else.

>

I¹m running into something like this these days. I became a TM teacher in

1970 and worked for the TM movement for 25 years. I live in Fairfield, Iowa

where many people fit that description. I started seeing Ammachi 3 years ago

and due to that involvement, had my ³Dome Badge² revoked. (Admittance to

group practice of the TM and TM-Sidhi program in the domes built for the

purpose on the campus of Maharishi University of Management here.) I could

get the badge back if I agreed not to see her anymore, but that¹s not going

to happen. Anyway, it¹s interesting to see how old friends and acquaintances

react to this turn of events. Many behave normally, but some react as though

I had leprosy when they see me in a store or restaurant. My attitude is that

truth is liberating, wherever it leads us. We¹re always going to believe

this or that, but beliefs will never be a foundation for living, because

they will never be stable. They¹re always subject to change as new

experiences dawn. Try to find security by making them absolute and you¹ll

only become rigid and judgmental.

December 1, 2002

Dear Supriti Omenka Nnadi, Prasida (Carla) and Surrdha

(Shelly), thank you for your *wonderful* input.

I really appreciate the fact that I've received

numerous and loving responses, which definitely soften

my heart and convince me that I'm following the heart

as well.

I also love to hear about others' experiences with

Amma, and I'm planning to write her a letter this week

about my journey and that I want to know her better.

It's okay if she doesn't reply "physically" as I think

it'll be sufficient if she simply knows, on some or

any level, that I am trying to establish contact with

her.

And, yes, I want to participate in the next retreat.

Love & blessings,

Christine

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December 4, 2002

>

>I also love to hear about others' experiences with

>Amma, and I'm planning to write her a letter this week

>about my journey and that I want to know her better.

>It's okay if she doesn't reply "physically" as I think

>it'll be sufficient if she simply knows, on some or

>any level, that I am trying to establish contact with

>her.

>

Sorry I am a bit behind on posts.

I have a journal I write to letter to Amma in. Sometimes for me prayer

is not enough. I need something physical so to write helps me to get out

what I am needing to tell her though she is not near me and I can't

simply pick up a phone and call. I have had wonderful experiances with

this. I don't always get the answer I want but well that is just a

mother daughter relationship. *S* Last year I was pregnant and my baby

died in utero. I was horrified by this and had so many questions. Even

slipped in my own little depression as well. But the one thing I did

manage to do was write all my pain out in letters to Amma. I know she

heard me. There were several signs that she did and was there for me.

The largest one that even my husband saw was when it was time for me to

be medicated for surgery I was terrified. I wrote in my journal for Amma

to please be with me as I didn't want to die. I have 5 children to care

for and this would be horrible for my husband. I had never had surgery

before and had never been put under. I feared I would not wake up. The

nurse I had was extreamly rude and hurtful to me which made matters

worse. My husband trying to be strong fainted pulling my bed across the

room as he fell and wacked his head and at the moment I felt alone and

terrified these were all bad signs and I was crying out in my heart and

mind for Amma or Kali to save me.

My doctor came in (well actually the room was full of people caring for

my poor hubby) and behind him a female doctor. She had on all white. Not

just her coat but her clothes underneath were all white. She was young

but she looked just like Amma when she was younger. I had to close my

eyes , shake my head and open them again. My husband even noticed how

much she looked like Amma. She came right to me and took my hand and

told me not to be afraid. I actually started crying and told her I was

so happy she was there. I had never met this woman before but she felt

like Amma and I felt safe. I never saw her again either. I have shared

this experiance with others who agree It was a sign for me not to be

afraid and that my spritual mother was there as she always is for me.

So write. You will get an answer. It actually is our personal telephone

line to her. that and prayer.

Surrdha

>

December 4, 2002

Hi Surrdha (did Amma give you this name?),

What an amazing story. She was definitely with you - I am convinced

of that fact - and I was heartened beyond belief to read about your

experience. I think I will direct some, if not all, of my journal

entries to her and see what happens.

I could most certainly use some support and signs of love from her

right now...

Lots of love and blessings,

Christine

Ammachi, kalima <kalima@s...> wrote:

>

> >

> >I also love to hear about others' experiences with

> >Amma, and I'm planning to write her a letter this week

> >about my journey and that I want to know her better.

> >It's okay if she doesn't reply "physically" as I think

> >it'll be sufficient if she simply knows, on some or

> >any level, that I am trying to establish contact with

> >her.

> >

> Sorry I am a bit behind on posts.

>

> I have a journal I write to letter to Amma in. Sometimes for me

prayer

> is not enough. I need something physical so to write helps me to

get out

> what I am needing to tell her though she is not near me and I can't

> simply pick up a phone and call. I have had wonderful experiances

with

> this. I don't always get the answer I want but well that is just a

> mother daughter relationship. *S* Last year I was pregnant and my

baby

> died in utero. I was horrified by this and had so many questions.

Even

> slipped in my own little depression as well. But the one thing I

did

> manage to do was write all my pain out in letters to Amma. I know

she

> heard me. There were several signs that she did and was there for

me.

> The largest one that even my husband saw was when it was time for

me to

> be medicated for surgery I was terrified. I wrote in my journal for

Amma

> to please be with me as I didn't want to die. I have 5 children to

care

> for and this would be horrible for my husband. I had never had

surgery

> before and had never been put under. I feared I would not wake up.

The

> nurse I had was extreamly rude and hurtful to me which made matters

> worse. My husband trying to be strong fainted pulling my bed across

the

> room as he fell and wacked his head and at the moment I felt alone

and

> terrified these were all bad signs and I was crying out in my heart

and

> mind for Amma or Kali to save me.

>

> My doctor came in (well actually the room was full of people caring

for

> my poor hubby) and behind him a female doctor. She had on all

white. Not

> just her coat but her clothes underneath were all white. She was

young

> but she looked just like Amma when she was younger. I had to close

my

> eyes , shake my head and open them again. My husband even noticed

how

> much she looked like Amma. She came right to me and took my hand

and

> told me not to be afraid. I actually started crying and told her I

was

> so happy she was there. I had never met this woman before but she

felt

> like Amma and I felt safe. I never saw her again either. I have

shared

> this experiance with others who agree It was a sign for me not to

be

> afraid and that my spritual mother was there as she always is for

me.

>

> So write. You will get an answer. It actually is our personal

telephone

> line to her. that and prayer.

>

> Surrdha

>

> >

December 5, 2002

I will try this ....I feel a need to rekindle my ties with Amma as I feel lost

at the time.....I feel scared about my situation.....but I know she is there

giving me strength.....I will try to write out my problems on paper and see what

comes... thanks for the Idea....Om....Shanti, Shanti Shanti....

kalima <kalima wrote: