Guest guest Posted December 29, 2002 Report Share Posted December 29, 2002 In a message dated 12/29/02 5:23:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ammachi writes: > ______________________ > > Message: 4 > Sat, 28 Dec 2002 08:38:16 EST > SoulQuest7 > Re:Ammachi said "He is the Sun I am the moon" > > In a message dated 12/27/2002 10:07:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, > ar112326 writes: > > > > <<While publicly Ammachi has been more silent.. > > privately to devotees she has said "Baba is the sun.. I am the moon">> > > > We have a moral duty to stop the brutal sexual abuse or our fellow man. > (If > you don't believe that, go see the film "Monsoon Wedding.") I have friends > > who are former followers of Satya Sai Baba and they left when his behavior > was exposed on the internet. > Anyone reading these posts should not take the word of empty, unsigned > posts. > Instead, read these following detailed letters (signed by the authors) > before getting involved with Satya Sai Baba. The reports of his abuse go > way > back to the 70s and up until the 90s. They are well documented and > available > for all to read. The first one listed below is from a long-time follower > who > is a psychologist and a former leader in the movement. Together we can > stop > this abuse, but only if we stand together in the name of love. =-=- > VICTORY > TO THE MOTHER GODDESS WHO PROTECTS AND LOVES HER CHILDREN-===- Nick > P.S. Here's the links: > <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/p_holbach/eng/shirl_e.htm">A letter from an ex-Sai officer</A> > <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/p_holbach/eng/finds_e.htm">Sai Baba: THE FINDINGS</A> > <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/p_holbach/eng/said_e.htm">The story of Said</A> > <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/p_holbach/eng/tal_e.htm">The story of Tal Brooke</A> > <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/p_holbach/eng/hans_e.htm">The story of Hans</A> > <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/p_holbach/eng/couple_e.htm">The story of an ex-devotee</A> > <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/p_holbach/eng/jed_e.htm">The story of Jed</A> > <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/p_holbach/eng/ugly_e.htm">The account of an ex-student</A> > <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/p_holbach/eng/dark_e.htm">Sai Baba: the "Bad Side"</A> > I have researched some of these links before, and have heard from a former devotee very credible evidence of sexual molestation of his friend's son by Baba. Yet, I have been made aware on this forum that Amma allegedly compared herself as the moon (reflected Light) to his sun (originating Light). Very hard to put this together! Indeed! Either the charges aren't true. Or, Amma never said it, or said it in a context so bizarre or idiosyncratic as to be unintelligible, or we have to cut Realizers much more slack in terms of personal idiosyncrasies, like pederasty, murder, or whatever seems to suit their fancy at the moment. This is all very distasteful. All of it. I don't want to think of Baba as the sun and Amma the moon, and I don't want Amma to portray Herself in that way. Or, are all those people lying about him and he's A OK? I think he's got Power, to be sure, and I guess lots of devotees feel that they get the benefit, so what difference does it make to them what he does in his private chambers, as long as they get the upliftment that they obviously feel they get? Avram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2002 Report Share Posted December 29, 2002 Om Namah Shivaya, Jyotsna! I am so glad you shared that story. Mainly because I decided to fly Singapore Air and Silk Air to Trivandrum instead of Air India! But also of course because it's a lovely story of Amma's awareness of all her children. I am going to India in January (the 19th), and am having interesting issues coming up about it. Right now, I have a cold and some sort of stomach problem (they don't seem to be associated, started in different ways), and I'm worried about getting sick in India, or being sick for the flight, which I know can be a real problem for my ears! I'm still struggling with my decisions about shots, but I'll make a decision about that soon. Then I have all these thoughts about unworthiness. I don't meditate everyday. I forget to chant my mantra. I don't do much seva. I don't get to satsang often. What will She care that I'm coming to India? Will she even notice me? Then I think that it's selfish to even want her to notice me... yet, how can a child not want some attention from her mother? So I go back and forth about that. I wonder, why am I going? But of course I know it's the resistance of the mind to receiving her on a deeper level, and receiving the transformation I am likely to have in her presence - I'm guessing my ego will be reduced a bit more there! I try to remind myself of the things that I do do and that I do contribute to others and my community, but they don't seem selfless enough to me. Then, I realize that all these comparisons - am I good, am I pathetic, what am I? are a waste of my time. But they still go on in my head. Or I go back to worrying about whether I'll be healthy there. It's so interesting what a long journey like this, to the farthest country you can go to, will bring up. I keep trying to become quiet inside and just be with her within. I reaffirm my trust in her that she'll protect me and take care of me, and not give me anything that I can't handle (or my husband, who will be waiting patiently here at home for the month that I'm gone!). And that I don't have to be a perfect devotee to be worthy of visiting her there. I'd love to hear stories of what others have experienced before and during their India trips. Oh, but if you became deathly ill, please don't tell me about it - I don't need more to feed my fears right now! Blessings, Achintya > I'll start with a story. Some of you may have > already read another version of it, but this is > my version: > > In December of 1996, five of us devotees from > Seattle flew to India to be with Amma. It was > my first trip to India. I had always had a fear > of flying, but decided to push it aside and just > have faith and go. We went from Seattle to > Tokyo, from Tokyo to Singapore and then took an > Air India flight from Singapore to Trivandrum. > It was my first flight on a third world airline, > but I bravely said to myself, "People fly on these > planes every day, and nothing ever happens, so I'm > just not going to worry about it." Also on our > Singapore-Trivandrum flight were two devotees from > Los Angeles. > > In Amma's love, > Jyotsna > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2002 Report Share Posted December 29, 2002 --- Connie Habash <Connie wrote: > Om Namah Shivaya, Jyotsna! > I am so glad you shared that story. Mainly because > I decided to fly Singapore Air and Silk Air to > Trivandrum instead of Air India! But also > of course because it's a lovely story of Amma's > awareness of all her children. > >I'm glad you found it worthwhile! Amma is always aware, I'm convinced. Only sometimes She lets us know about it, and other times we have to take it on faith. Sometimes She even pretends not to know just to shake us up! > sick in India, or being sick for the flight, which I > know can be a real problem for my ears! I'm > still struggling with my decisions about shots, > but I'll make a decision about that soon. I'm sure you'll make the correct decisions. My advice is that if you have any cold whatsoever, take a decongestant before boarding so that your ears don't pain you. It has worked for me on other flights. > > Then I have all these thoughts about unworthiness. > I don't meditate everyday. I forget to chant my > mantra. I don't do much seva. I don't get to > satsang > often. What will She care that I'm coming to India? > Will she even notice me? Then I think that it's > selfish to even want her to notice me... yet, how >I understand your concerns. Yet you are a child going to see her mother. My guess is that She will receive you very warmly. She wants Her children to come "home." She'll no doubt teach you a few lessons along the way, but that's also because She loves you. You don't have to be "worthy" because you just are Her child. To paraphrase Yogananda, "the birthmark of infinity is in your soul, Her kiss of immortality is on your brow." You've already got it made! The rest is just details! (Ha, ha!) > > I try to remind myself of the things that I do do > and that > I do contribute to others and my community, but they > don't seem selfless enough to me. Then, I realize > that > all these comparisons - am I good, am I pathetic, > what > am I? are a waste of my time. But they still go on > in > my head. Or I go back to worrying about whether > I'll > be healthy there. It's so interesting what a long > journey like this. I was so anxious about my first trip to India that I gave myself (and still do) permission to feel anything that I felt there. My self-given mantra became, "If I don't like it I never have to go back." Of course I loved it; it seemed more like home than home. Now I die a little each day just wanting to be there. So just inwardly give it all to Her. > > > I'd love to hear stories of what others have > experienced > before and during their India trips. Oh, but if you > > became deathly ill, please don't tell me about it - > I don't > need more to feed my fears right now! > I told someone after my first trip that I felt like I was in a "state of grace" the whole time I was there. To my great surprise, the response was "Well, you LOOKED like you were in a state of grace the whole time there!" I may be wrong, but I somewhat attribute the "state of grace" to something that happened my first morning in Amritapuri. I was just coming out of the temple after the 1,000 Names, and was approached by an Indian man who urgently told me he had a boat that I could rent for a cruise through the Kerala back- waters. Nothing would do him except that I come with him to see this boat. (My friends know that I have very little sales resistance, and I was too new to the ashram to have any idea that his being there and approaching me in that way was strictly against ashram rules.) I was pretty sure I didn't want to go on this boat ride, but he was insistent and I went. When we got to the boat, it was very nice with a western toilet (!) and a chef and kitchen on board. the boat was moored among the lush coconut palms, and suddenly, the idea of cruising those Kerala waterways seemed very seductive. For a few moments I was tempted. (I was also new to the insistent way the salesman didn't want to let me say no.) He kept saying what a nice boat it was, and of course I agreed. But then I checked in with my heart and knew that I had not come all this way (risking a plane crash, etc.) to ply the Keralan waterways in a rented boat. I recalled what Amma said when she was brought to a house to do sewing and was instead asked to bring tea to a young man, (the traditional way a bride and groom are introduced in those parts). She said, I did not come here to bring tea. I came here to sew." or words to that effect. So I drew myself up and said very firmly, "I did not come here to ride in a boat!" (Heck, I'm from Seattle, where there are lots of boats!) To his insistent pleas, I just kept repeating, "Yes, the boat is very nice, but I did not come here to ride in a boat!" The I would say the only Malayalam phrase I knew. (Forgive the spelling, Malayalam speakers.) "Amma, gnan enum ennekum nigalode irrikuvan agrihikkinu!" I learned this phrase from a (grudging) Christian Malayalee at work. It's supposed to mean, "Amma, I want to be with you forever and forever!" Well, what could they say to that? Not much. I left and that was the end of that. But somehow, I felt like I had passed a test of some kind. Perhaps that was why I felt so divinely protected the whole time I was there. Stumbling around in the dark up on the top of the temple where there are a lot of uneven floors, I didn't even fall. It was just uncanny. I realized at that time that something unusual was afoot. Well, I'm sorry if I've been long-winded, or it talking about my own experience has been unpleasant for anyone. In Amma's love, Jyotsna > > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2002 Report Share Posted December 29, 2002 Dear Jyotsna, thank you for being long winded. Please get a second wind and write more. For those devotees who do not have the opportunity to visit Amritapuri, (like me), your story makes the experience of being at Amma's ashram more vivid in my mind and heart. In Amma's Love, Sara J. Ammachi, Ellen Lamb <jyotsna2> wrote: > > --- Connie Habash <Connie@a...> wrote: > > Om Namah Shivaya, Jyotsna! > > I am so glad you shared that story. Mainly because > > I decided to fly Singapore Air and Silk Air to > > Trivandrum instead of Air India! But also > > of course because it's a lovely story of Amma's > > awareness of all her children. > > > > >I'm glad you found it worthwhile! Amma is always > aware, I'm convinced. Only sometimes She lets us > know about it, and other times we have to take it > on faith. Sometimes She even pretends not to know > just to shake us up! > > > sick in India, or being sick for the flight, which I > > know can be a real problem for my ears! I'm > > still struggling with my decisions about shots, > > but I'll make a decision about that soon. > > I'm sure you'll make the correct decisions. My > advice is that if you have any cold whatsoever, take > a decongestant before boarding so that your ears > don't pain you. It has worked for me on other > flights. > > > > > Then I have all these thoughts about unworthiness. > > I don't meditate everyday. I forget to chant my > > mantra. I don't do much seva. I don't get to > > satsang > > often. What will She care that I'm coming to India? > > Will she even notice me? Then I think that it's > > selfish to even want her to notice me... yet, how > > >I understand your concerns. Yet you are a child > going to see her mother. My guess is that She will > receive you very warmly. She wants Her children > to come "home." She'll no doubt teach you a few > lessons along the way, but that's also because She > loves you. You don't have to be "worthy" because > you just are Her child. To paraphrase Yogananda, > "the birthmark of infinity is in your soul, Her > kiss of immortality is on your brow." You've > already got it made! The rest is just details! > (Ha, ha!) > > > > > I try to remind myself of the things that I do do > > and that > > I do contribute to others and my community, but they > > don't seem selfless enough to me. Then, I realize > > that > > all these comparisons - am I good, am I pathetic, > > what > > am I? are a waste of my time. But they still go on > > in > > my head. Or I go back to worrying about whether > > I'll > > be healthy there. It's so interesting what a long > > journey like this. > > I was so anxious about my first trip to India that > I gave myself (and still do) permission to feel > anything that I felt there. My self-given mantra > became, "If I don't like it I never have to go back." > Of course I loved it; it seemed more like home > than home. Now I die a little each day just wanting > to be there. So just inwardly give it all to Her. > > > > > > I'd love to hear stories of what others have > > experienced > > before and during their India trips. Oh, but if you > > > > became deathly ill, please don't tell me about it - > > I don't > > need more to feed my fears right now! > > > I told someone after my first trip that I felt like > I was in a "state of grace" the whole time I was > there. To my great surprise, the response was > "Well, you LOOKED like you were in a state of grace > the whole time there!" > > I may be wrong, but I somewhat attribute the "state > of grace" to something that happened my first morning > in Amritapuri. I was just coming out of the temple > after the 1,000 Names, and was approached by an > Indian man who urgently told me he had a boat that > I could rent for a cruise through the Kerala back- > waters. Nothing would do him except that I come > with him to see this boat. (My friends know that > I have very little sales resistance, and I was too > new to the ashram to have any idea that his being > there and approaching me in that way was strictly > against ashram rules.) > > I was pretty sure I didn't want to go on this > boat ride, but he was insistent and I went. > When we got to the boat, it was very nice with > a western toilet (!) and a chef and kitchen on > board. the boat was moored among the lush > coconut palms, and suddenly, the idea of cruising > those Kerala waterways seemed very seductive. > For a few moments I was tempted. (I was also > new to the insistent way the salesman didn't want > to let me say no.) He kept saying what a nice > boat it was, and of course I agreed. But then > I checked in with my heart and knew that I had not > come all this way (risking a plane crash, etc.) to > ply the Keralan waterways in a rented boat. > > I recalled what Amma said when she was brought to > a house to do sewing and was instead asked to bring > tea to a young man, (the traditional way a bride and > groom are introduced in those parts). She said, > I did not come here to bring tea. I came here to > sew." or words to that effect. > > So I drew myself up and said very firmly, "I did not > come here to ride in a boat!" (Heck, I'm from > Seattle, > where there are lots of boats!) To his insistent > pleas, I just kept repeating, "Yes, the boat is > very nice, but I did not come here to ride in a > boat!" The I would say the only Malayalam phrase > I knew. (Forgive the spelling, Malayalam speakers.) > "Amma, gnan enum ennekum nigalode irrikuvan > agrihikkinu!" > I learned this phrase from a (grudging) Christian > Malayalee at work. It's supposed to mean, "Amma, I > want to be with you forever and forever!" > > Well, what could they say to that? Not much. I left > and that was the end of that. > > But somehow, I felt like I had passed a test of > some kind. Perhaps that was why I felt so divinely > protected the whole time I was there. Stumbling > around in the dark up on the top of the temple > where there are a lot of uneven floors, I didn't > even fall. It was just uncanny. I realized at > that time that something unusual was afoot. > > > Well, I'm sorry if I've been long-winded, or it > talking about my own experience has been unpleasant > for anyone. > > In Amma's love, > Jyotsna > > > > > > > > > > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2002 Report Share Posted December 30, 2002 --- "saramj33 <saramj" <saramj wrote: > Dear Jyotsna, > > thank you for being long winded. Please get a second > wind and write > more. For those devotees who do not have the > opportunity to visit > Amritapuri, (like me), your story makes the > experience of being at > Amma's ashram more vivid in my mind and heart. > > In Amma's Love, > Sara J. > > Dear Sara, Actually, I had been thinking of sharing more experiences with this list. I think I will also (for people like yourself) share some of the diary entries from my first trip to India. If anyone is offended by this, you are welcome just to delete my posts without reading them. I won't be offended. Also, if I seem to say "negative" things in my diary--about India, for example, just remember this is a westerner's first exposure to that magical land, and I can't change my reactions to suit others' taste. I am a very imperfect devotee. Thanks for your kind words, Sara! In Amma's love, Jyotsna > > > > > > > === message truncated === Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2002 Report Share Posted December 30, 2002 --- Ellen Lamb <jyotsna2 wrote: > Then I would say the only Malayalam phrase > I knew. (Forgive the spelling, Malayalam speakers.) > "Amma, gnan enum ennekum nigalode irrikuvan > agrihikkinu!" > I learned this phrase from a (grudging) Christian > Malayalee at work. It's supposed to mean, "Amma, I > want to be with you forever and forever!" I love this so much. It reminds me of the bhajan "Hridaya nivasini Amme," which says, "Mother has told me that Mother and I are not two; We are One, but I do not yet perceive this. I just want to stay with Her and be Her child." Jai Ma --Aravind Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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