Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Gita is one of the book on which people have written countless commentaries. Though I respect a person's judgement on choice of book but at the same time I believe that most of them can serve as guideline for particular mentality. ISKON gita might not be well suited for one person but when you think of a devotee who admire personal aspect of lord krishna it might be one of the best. I have seen some comment on Gandhi's gita as well as some remark on gandhi himself in a post. Its ridiculous to think that Gandhi is not admired among the youths of India. In my view its totally absurd conclusion that is reflected in post. I will respect avinash's personal view but not his conclusion about gandhi as viewed in india. It does not reflect view of India as a whole. India as a nation is honored that God has gifted her with such a universal personality. I will first comment on Gandhi's gita. I read this book long back and it might be true that Gandhi was inclined towards his Nonviolent movement but at the same time what is wrong about this? His book reflect his experiment with truth for which he has chosen a true nonviolence way. It might not be a very great book for doing lots of JAPA/Dhyana/Puja... but it might be an excellent book for People more inclined in selfless public service. ******** I don't know what Gandhi would have advised Sri Rama, since his wife Sita was abducted by ravana. Definetly he would have asked Rama not to fight, but that was not the case,he fought, killed Ravana and rescued Sita. No wonder Sri Rama is the national hero, a role model of India" ****** I don't think this conclusion in right at all. You are referring to a person who was devotee of ram all his life. The name of Lord "RAM" was on this lips when he died by bullet. Even the highest yogi wish to utter the name of god at last moment. There is not doubt in my mind that RAM is the role model and national hero in India but at the same time there is no doubt in my mind that Gandhi is one of the HERO as a devotee of Lord Ram. Two of the biggest world war in this world WORLD WAR I and II both happened during Gandhi's time and Indian Independence was Partly result of WW II. In world war II indian Solider fought with British with the approval of Indian National Congress ( which as per your Conclusion made Gandhi a saint in India).In my View its not Indian congress who helped in glorifying Gandhi but its Gandhi who blessed INC and made it one of the great forum for a NON VIOLENT movement world has never seen before. Doing Sadhana in Solitude as per strict rule and following NonViolence as defined by Gandhi is equally difficult. I would not comment on what Gandhi would have advised sri rama on Ravan but I would mention that he has said in his Autobiography that Bhagwad Gita was his guideline all his life and RamaCharit Manas(RAMAYAN) by Tulasidas was the best devotional book of his life. In simple term Lord Rama was his istha and his action were certainly a lightening path for Gandhi ****** Gandhi is not at all popular among Indian youth, surprisingly when I came to United states many westerners think Indians revere Gandhi, I would say yes but only old people. As a student, I never, never, never met any boy or girl in my school days impressed by Gandhi. Why Gandhi was made a saint in India is due to simple reason, due to INC or Indian National Congress ******* People revere a person based on there mentality. A person may respect Gandhi and revere Swami Vivekananda and Vice Versa. It does not make anyone less significant. As a Indian I have always met countless youth who were and are still impressed with Gandhi. I also think that many young people took part in Indian Freedom movement which was guided by Gandhi. Our First President Dr. Rajendra Prasad and First Prime-minister Nehru were not a old person when they started working with Gandhi. Though Indian Freedom was guided by many Patriotic event( Violent and Non-Violent) but whole world agrees that Gandhi was the Leader. Vivekananda was needed to transmute indian spirituality and gandhi was needed to guide Freedom movement which was also part of Awakening of India.Even Gandhi has said that that he was inspired by Vivekanada Ideals for Motherland. Gandhi once visited belur math and met with Swami Brahmananda. Swami Brhmananda himself said that Gandhi jee is a great spiritual personality . I have read many instances in Book SIVANANDA VANI where MahaPurush maharaj mentioned that though he sees lots of freedom fighter leader but he sees none as great as Gandhi. There are numerous example when spiritual and Political leader have worked together. Guru Arvinda Ghose initially was supporter of violent Freedom Movement Later he established his ashram in PandiChari and did intense sadhana. Many people believe that he was saint behind the empowerment of Indian Freedom movement on a more subtle level. ****** I can challange any body right now at this point to conduct survey on Gandhi's popularity in India among the youth(not old people) the result would be 90% against him. ***** "Times" magazine has marked Gandhi with ICON of Century so that probably is whole world's view. India-today survey too has said that Gandhi was The personality of Century. In fact its assumed that Gandhi will always come first so many survey exclude him as Choice. My purpose of writing this is not to challenge anything. I am just trying to say that the above statement is misleading. ******** In my high school he was a subject of numerous jokes ******** In my view this probably is some shortcoming on school or student's part. It make them laughable. Joke does not affect Gandhi's personality. I have expressed only my personal view on Gandhi. I do believe that India as a whole Consider him Father of Our Nation( Post Independent India). Hinduism and India has a long history of producing great spiritual leaders from time immemorial but on political arena Gandhi was someone who will definetely surpass the narrow boundary of Nation,religion and of course Time because of his NonViolence movement. Best Regards Ammachi, avinash ramidi <avinash7_99> wrote: > > Dear Madhuri, > > First of all you should avoid reading Bagvad Gita > comming from two sets of people, First from ISKON > second from GANDHI. Don't even dare to read Gandhi's > translation. He viewed everything with glassess of > Non-violence, wether reading ramayana, mahabaratha or > bagvad gita every thing seemed preaching non-violence. > > > Regards > Avinash. > > > > Send Flowers for Valentine's Day > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Namah Shivaya I agree with Rajesh. When i was a student in india, jokes nothwithstanding, all my friends , and almost all the students i moved with, had a great respect for Gandhiji. Even some of his worst critics admitted his Moral greatness . Ramana Maharishi Himself praised Gandhi's greatness - and so does AMMA. Check 'Awaken Children Vol1 ' where Amma mentions Gandhi . Nobody praised Gandhi as an avatar- they may not worship Him the way they worship Sri Rama, but almost everybody respects him as a great soul, a man of outstanding moral courage, and as a man who lived up to his conscience. While his philosophy of non violence may not be applicable in all cases , still he was right when he mentioned that the external struggle of the Gita is also referring to the inner struggle in man . bala --- "Rajesh <rajesh_1999" <rajesh_1999 wrote: > > Gita is one of the book on which people have written > countless > commentaries. Though I respect a person's judgement > on choice of book > but at the same time I believe that most of them can > serve as > guideline for particular mentality. ISKON gita might > not be well > suited for one person but when you think of a > devotee who admire > personal aspect of lord krishna it might be one of > the best. > > I have seen some comment on Gandhi's gita as well as > some remark on > gandhi himself in a post. Its ridiculous to think > that Gandhi is not > admired among the youths of India. In my view its > totally absurd > conclusion that is reflected in post. I will respect > avinash's > personal view but not his conclusion about gandhi as > viewed in india. > It does not reflect view of India as a whole. India > as a nation is > honored that God has gifted her with such a > universal personality. > > I will first comment on Gandhi's gita. I read this > book long back and > it might be true that Gandhi was inclined towards > his Nonviolent > movement but at the same time what is wrong about > this? His book > reflect his experiment with truth for which he has > chosen a true > nonviolence way. It might not be a very great book > for doing lots of > JAPA/Dhyana/Puja... but it might be an excellent > book for People more > inclined in selfless public service. > > ******** > I don't know what Gandhi would have advised Sri > Rama, since his wife > Sita was abducted by ravana. Definetly he would have > asked Rama not > to fight, but that was not the case,he fought, > killed Ravana and > rescued Sita. No wonder Sri Rama is the national > hero, a role model > of India" > ****** > I don't think this conclusion in right at all. You > are referring to a > person who was devotee of ram all his life. The name > of Lord "RAM" > was on this lips when he died by bullet. Even the > highest yogi wish > to utter the name of god at last moment. There is > not doubt in my > mind that RAM is the role model and national hero in > India but at the > same time there is no doubt in my mind that Gandhi > is one of the HERO > as a devotee of Lord Ram. Two of the biggest world > war in this world > WORLD WAR I and II both happened during Gandhi's > time and Indian > Independence was Partly result of WW II. In world > war II indian > Solider fought with British with the approval of > Indian National > Congress ( which as per your Conclusion made Gandhi > a saint in > India).In my View its not Indian congress who helped > in glorifying > Gandhi but its Gandhi who blessed INC and made it > one of the great > forum for a NON VIOLENT movement world has never > seen before. Doing > Sadhana in Solitude as per strict rule and following > NonViolence as > defined by Gandhi is equally difficult. I would not > comment on what > Gandhi would have advised sri rama on Ravan but I > would mention that > he has said in his Autobiography that Bhagwad Gita > was his guideline > all his life and RamaCharit Manas(RAMAYAN) by > Tulasidas was the best > devotional book of his life. In simple term Lord > Rama was his istha > and his action were certainly a lightening path for > Gandhi > > ****** > Gandhi is not at all popular among Indian youth, > surprisingly when I > came to United states many westerners think Indians > revere Gandhi, I > would say yes but only old people. As a student, I > never, never, > never met any boy or girl in my school days > impressed by Gandhi. Why > Gandhi was made a saint in India is due to simple > reason, due to INC > or Indian National Congress > ******* > People revere a person based on there mentality. A > person may respect > Gandhi and revere Swami Vivekananda and Vice Versa. > It does not make > anyone less significant. As a Indian I have always > met countless > youth who were and are still impressed with Gandhi. > I also think > that many young people took part in Indian Freedom > movement which > was guided by Gandhi. Our First President Dr. > Rajendra Prasad and > First Prime-minister Nehru were not a old person > when they started > working with Gandhi. Though Indian Freedom was > guided by many > Patriotic event( Violent and Non-Violent) but whole > world agrees that > Gandhi was the Leader. > Vivekananda was needed to transmute indian > spirituality and gandhi > was needed to guide Freedom movement which was also > part of Awakening > of India.Even Gandhi has said that that he was > inspired by > Vivekanada Ideals for Motherland. Gandhi once > visited belur math and > met with Swami Brahmananda. Swami Brhmananda himself > said that Gandhi > jee is a great spiritual personality . I have read > many instances in > Book SIVANANDA VANI where MahaPurush maharaj > mentioned that though he > sees lots of freedom fighter leader but he sees none > as great as > Gandhi. There are numerous example when spiritual > and Political > leader have worked together. Guru Arvinda Ghose > initially was > supporter of violent Freedom Movement Later he > established his > ashram in PandiChari and did intense sadhana. Many > people believe > that he was saint behind the empowerment of Indian > Freedom movement > on a more subtle level. > > ****** > I can challange any body right now at this point to > conduct survey on > Gandhi's popularity in India among the youth(not old > people) the > result would be 90% against him. > ***** > "Times" magazine has marked Gandhi with ICON of > Century so that > probably is whole world's view. > India-today survey too has said that Gandhi was The > personality of > Century. In fact its assumed that Gandhi will always > come first so > many survey exclude him as Choice. My purpose of > writing this is not > to challenge anything. I am just trying to say that > the above > statement is misleading. > ******** > In my high school he was a subject of numerous jokes > ******** > In my view this probably is some shortcoming on > school or student's > part. It make them laughable. Joke does not affect > Gandhi's > personality. > > > I have expressed only my personal view on Gandhi. I > do believe that > India as a whole Consider him Father of Our Nation( > Post Independent > India). Hinduism and India has a long history of > producing great > spiritual leaders from time immemorial but on > political arena Gandhi > was someone who will definetely surpass the narrow > boundary of > Nation,religion and of course Time because of his > NonViolence > movement. > > Best Regards > === message truncated === Send Flowers for Valentine's Day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 And if anyone thinks that Gandhiji was irrelevenat outside India and his times, take a look at influence he had on Martin Luther King and his civil rights movement in the UNited States. Take a look at http://www.pbs.org/weta/forcemorepowerful/ to see how Gandhiji's thoughts have influenced non-violent movements around the world. While it's true that his ideas may not be suitable for everybody in every age, he was certainly worthy of more respect that what Avinash says, and he speaks only for himself, not for the rest of India. -Girish On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, balakrishnan Shankar wrote: > Namah Shivaya > > I agree with Rajesh. When i was a student in india, > jokes nothwithstanding, all my friends , and almost > all the students i moved with, had a great respect for > Gandhiji. Even some of his worst critics admitted his > Moral greatness . > > Ramana Maharishi Himself praised Gandhi's greatness > - and so does AMMA. Check 'Awaken Children Vol1 ' > where Amma mentions Gandhi . > > Nobody praised Gandhi as an avatar- they may not > worship Him the way they worship Sri Rama, but almost > everybody respects him as a great soul, a man of > outstanding moral courage, and as a man who lived up > to his conscience. > > While his philosophy of non violence may not be > applicable in all cases , still he was right when he > mentioned that the external struggle of the Gita is > also referring to the inner struggle in man . > > bala > > > > --- "Rajesh <rajesh_1999" > <rajesh_1999 wrote: > > > > Gita is one of the book on which people have written > > countless > > commentaries. Though I respect a person's judgement > > on choice of book > > but at the same time I believe that most of them can > > serve as > > guideline for particular mentality. ISKON gita might > > not be well > > suited for one person but when you think of a > > devotee who admire > > personal aspect of lord krishna it might be one of > > the best. > > > > I have seen some comment on Gandhi's gita as well as > > some remark on > > gandhi himself in a post. Its ridiculous to think > > that Gandhi is not > > admired among the youths of India. In my view its > > totally absurd > > conclusion that is reflected in post. I will respect > > avinash's > > personal view but not his conclusion about gandhi as > > viewed in india. > > It does not reflect view of India as a whole. India > > as a nation is > > honored that God has gifted her with such a > > universal personality. > > > > I will first comment on Gandhi's gita. I read this > > book long back and > > it might be true that Gandhi was inclined towards > > his Nonviolent > > movement but at the same time what is wrong about > > this? His book > > reflect his experiment with truth for which he has > > chosen a true > > nonviolence way. It might not be a very great book > > for doing lots of > > JAPA/Dhyana/Puja... but it might be an excellent > > book for People more > > inclined in selfless public service. > > > > ******** > > I don't know what Gandhi would have advised Sri > > Rama, since his wife > > Sita was abducted by ravana. Definetly he would have > > asked Rama not > > to fight, but that was not the case,he fought, > > killed Ravana and > > rescued Sita. No wonder Sri Rama is the national > > hero, a role model > > of India" > > ****** > > I don't think this conclusion in right at all. You > > are referring to a > > person who was devotee of ram all his life. The name > > of Lord "RAM" > > was on this lips when he died by bullet. Even the > > highest yogi wish > > to utter the name of god at last moment. There is > > not doubt in my > > mind that RAM is the role model and national hero in > > India but at the > > same time there is no doubt in my mind that Gandhi > > is one of the HERO > > as a devotee of Lord Ram. Two of the biggest world > > war in this world > > WORLD WAR I and II both happened during Gandhi's > > time and Indian > > Independence was Partly result of WW II. In world > > war II indian > > Solider fought with British with the approval of > > Indian National > > Congress ( which as per your Conclusion made Gandhi > > a saint in > > India).In my View its not Indian congress who helped > > in glorifying > > Gandhi but its Gandhi who blessed INC and made it > > one of the great > > forum for a NON VIOLENT movement world has never > > seen before. Doing > > Sadhana in Solitude as per strict rule and following > > NonViolence as > > defined by Gandhi is equally difficult. I would not > > comment on what > > Gandhi would have advised sri rama on Ravan but I > > would mention that > > he has said in his Autobiography that Bhagwad Gita > > was his guideline > > all his life and RamaCharit Manas(RAMAYAN) by > > Tulasidas was the best > > devotional book of his life. In simple term Lord > > Rama was his istha > > and his action were certainly a lightening path for > > Gandhi > > > > ****** > > Gandhi is not at all popular among Indian youth, > > surprisingly when I > > came to United states many westerners think Indians > > revere Gandhi, I > > would say yes but only old people. As a student, I > > never, never, > > never met any boy or girl in my school days > > impressed by Gandhi. Why > > Gandhi was made a saint in India is due to simple > > reason, due to INC > > or Indian National Congress > > ******* > > People revere a person based on there mentality. A > > person may respect > > Gandhi and revere Swami Vivekananda and Vice Versa. > > It does not make > > anyone less significant. As a Indian I have always > > met countless > > youth who were and are still impressed with Gandhi. > > I also think > > that many young people took part in Indian Freedom > > movement which > > was guided by Gandhi. Our First President Dr. > > Rajendra Prasad and > > First Prime-minister Nehru were not a old person > > when they started > > working with Gandhi. Though Indian Freedom was > > guided by many > > Patriotic event( Violent and Non-Violent) but whole > > world agrees that > > Gandhi was the Leader. > > Vivekananda was needed to transmute indian > > spirituality and gandhi > > was needed to guide Freedom movement which was also > > part of Awakening > > of India.Even Gandhi has said that that he was > > inspired by > > Vivekanada Ideals for Motherland. Gandhi once > > visited belur math and > > met with Swami Brahmananda. Swami Brhmananda himself > > said that Gandhi > > jee is a great spiritual personality . I have read > > many instances in > > Book SIVANANDA VANI where MahaPurush maharaj > > mentioned that though he > > sees lots of freedom fighter leader but he sees none > > as great as > > Gandhi. There are numerous example when spiritual > > and Political > > leader have worked together. Guru Arvinda Ghose > > initially was > > supporter of violent Freedom Movement Later he > > established his > > ashram in PandiChari and did intense sadhana. Many > > people believe > > that he was saint behind the empowerment of Indian > > Freedom movement > > on a more subtle level. > > > > ****** > > I can challange any body right now at this point to > > conduct survey on > > Gandhi's popularity in India among the youth(not old > > people) the > > result would be 90% against him. > > ***** > > "Times" magazine has marked Gandhi with ICON of > > Century so that > > probably is whole world's view. > > India-today survey too has said that Gandhi was The > > personality of > > Century. In fact its assumed that Gandhi will always > > come first so > > many survey exclude him as Choice. My purpose of > > writing this is not > > to challenge anything. I am just trying to say that > > the above > > statement is misleading. > > ******** > > In my high school he was a subject of numerous jokes > > ******** > > In my view this probably is some shortcoming on > > school or student's > > part. It make them laughable. Joke does not affect > > Gandhi's > > personality. > > > > > > I have expressed only my personal view on Gandhi. I > > do believe that > > India as a whole Consider him Father of Our Nation( > > Post Independent > > India). Hinduism and India has a long history of > > producing great > > spiritual leaders from time immemorial but on > > political arena Gandhi > > was someone who will definetely surpass the narrow > > boundary of > > Nation,religion and of course Time because of his > > NonViolence > > movement. > > > > Best Regards > > > === message truncated === > > > > > Send Flowers for Valentine's Day > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > Ammachi > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Om Namah Shivaya All, Gandhi: Some say he was too soft natured and allowed India to be divided into two. I say, he was shrewd and streetsmart. Who wants to keep a few million jihadis in the backyard? Dont let his frail frame fool you. Inside was a dynamite, strong enough to convince the British who had earlier refused to leave inspite of many violent uprisings. If Gandhi were alive today, he wouldnt be preaching non-violence alone. A lot of today's urban Indian youth is hooked onto satellite TV, MTV, the latest electronics and they try to be just like their western counterparts - why,even dating is a popular pastime :-) [1.Wonder what Gandhiji would say to all that 2. If you held a poll on whether they admire Aishwarya Rai (a former Miss World) or Gandhi, they are likely to say, Aish!] This generation (including myself), takes freedom for granted. Of course, there are definitely people who believe in Gandhian values, but not too many young people. What is important is that, Gandhiji's path was valid in the timeframe and context of India's freedom movement. We dont have him now, to tell us what is the right path. So, please dont "assume" that he will ask you to do such and such. If he were alive, his approach to today's problems would probably be different than what he said in 1947! [Keep in mind, India was a poor country then. Read President Abdul Kalam's India:A vision for 2020 to get a feel as to where its heading.] Before he left in 1951, Lord Mountbatten said, "In 50 years, this country will go to the dogs". No thank you Mounty, ...we have had great political leaders like Gandhi and spiritual giants like Ammachi, who is here to preserve and restore India's glorious heritage and to undo the wrongs done by plunderers such as yourself. Jai Ma, Ravi Send Flowers for Valentine's Day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 --- "Rajesh <rajesh_1999" <rajesh_1999 wrote: > > Gita is one of the book on which people have written > countless > commentaries. Though I respect a person's judgement > on choice of book > but at the same time I believe that most of them can > serve as > guideline for particular mentality. ISKON gita might > not be well > suited for one person but when you think of a > devotee who admire > personal aspect of lord krishna it might be one of > the best. > > I have seen some comment on Gandhi's gita as well as > some remark on > gandhi himself in a post. Its ridiculous to think > that Gandhi is not > admired among the youths of India. In my view its > totally absurd > conclusion that is reflected in post. I will respect > avinash's > personal view but not his conclusion about gandhi as > viewed in india. > It does not reflect view of India as a whole. India > as a nation is > honored that God has gifted her with such a > universal personality. > > I will first comment on Gandhi's gita. I read this > book long back and > it might be true that Gandhi was inclined towards > his Nonviolent > movement but at the same time what is wrong about > this? His book > reflect his experiment with truth for which he has > chosen a true > nonviolence way. It might not be a very great book > for doing lots of > JAPA/Dhyana/Puja... but it might be an excellent > book for People more > inclined in selfless public service. > > ******** > I don't know what Gandhi would have advised Sri > Rama, since his wife > Sita was abducted by ravana. Definetly he would have > asked Rama not > to fight, but that was not the case,he fought, > killed Ravana and > rescued Sita. No wonder Sri Rama is the national > hero, a role model > of India" > ****** > I don't think this conclusion in right at all. You > are referring to a > person who was devotee of ram all his life. The name > of Lord "RAM" > was on this lips when he died by bullet. Even the > highest yogi wish > to utter the name of god at last moment. There is > not doubt in my > mind that RAM is the role model and national hero in > India but at the > same time there is no doubt in my mind that Gandhi > is one of the HERO > as a devotee of Lord Ram. Two of the biggest world > war in this world > WORLD WAR I and II both happened during Gandhi's > time and Indian > Independence was Partly result of WW II. In world > war II indian > Solider fought with British with the approval of > Indian National > Congress ( which as per your Conclusion made Gandhi > a saint in > India).In my View its not Indian congress who helped > in glorifying > Gandhi but its Gandhi who blessed INC and made it > one of the great > forum for a NON VIOLENT movement world has never > seen before. Doing > Sadhana in Solitude as per strict rule and following > NonViolence as > defined by Gandhi is equally difficult. I would not > comment on what > Gandhi would have advised sri rama on Ravan but I > would mention that > he has said in his Autobiography that Bhagwad Gita > was his guideline > all his life and RamaCharit Manas(RAMAYAN) by > Tulasidas was the best > devotional book of his life. In simple term Lord > Rama was his istha > and his action were certainly a lightening path for > Gandhi > > ****** > Gandhi is not at all popular among Indian youth, > surprisingly when I > came to United states many westerners think Indians > revere Gandhi, I > would say yes but only old people. As a student, I > never, never, > never met any boy or girl in my school days > impressed by Gandhi. Why > Gandhi was made a saint in India is due to simple > reason, due to INC > or Indian National Congress > ******* > People revere a person based on there mentality. A > person may respect > Gandhi and revere Swami Vivekananda and Vice Versa. > It does not make > anyone less significant. As a Indian I have always > met countless > youth who were and are still impressed with Gandhi. > I also think > that many young people took part in Indian Freedom > movement which > was guided by Gandhi. Our First President Dr. > Rajendra Prasad and > First Prime-minister Nehru were not a old person > when they started > working with Gandhi. Though Indian Freedom was > guided by many > Patriotic event( Violent and Non-Violent) but whole > world agrees that > Gandhi was the Leader. > Vivekananda was needed to transmute indian > spirituality and gandhi > was needed to guide Freedom movement which was also > part of Awakening > of India.Even Gandhi has said that that he was > inspired by > Vivekanada Ideals for Motherland. Gandhi once > visited belur math and > met with Swami Brahmananda. Swami Brhmananda himself > said that Gandhi > jee is a great spiritual personality . I have read > many instances in > Book SIVANANDA VANI where MahaPurush maharaj > mentioned that though he > sees lots of freedom fighter leader but he sees none > as great as > Gandhi. There are numerous example when spiritual > and Political > leader have worked together. Guru Arvinda Ghose > initially was > supporter of violent Freedom Movement Later he > established his > ashram in PandiChari and did intense sadhana. Many > people believe > that he was saint behind the empowerment of Indian > Freedom movement > on a more subtle level. > > ****** > I can challange any body right now at this point to > conduct survey on > Gandhi's popularity in India among the youth(not old > people) the > result would be 90% against him. > ***** > "Times" magazine has marked Gandhi with ICON of > Century so that > probably is whole world's view. > India-today survey too has said that Gandhi was The > personality of > Century. In fact its assumed that Gandhi will always > come first so > many survey exclude him as Choice. My purpose of > writing this is not > to challenge anything. I am just trying to say that > the above > statement is misleading. > ******** > In my high school he was a subject of numerous jokes > ******** > In my view this probably is some shortcoming on > school or student's > part. It make them laughable. Joke does not affect > Gandhi's > personality. > > > I have expressed only my personal view on Gandhi. I > do believe that > India as a whole Consider him Father of Our Nation( > Post Independent > India). Hinduism and India has a long history of > producing great > spiritual leaders from time immemorial but on > political arena Gandhi > was someone who will definetely surpass the narrow > boundary of > Nation,religion and of course Time because of his > NonViolence > movement. > > Best Regards > === message truncated === Dear Rajesh, I think we are living in paralell worlds. I am surprised by your mail. You rely on magzines like INDIA TODAY were Hindu bashing is pastime. I know what kind of survey's they conduct, they go to some metropolitan cities and ask few 1000 people in a country of 1 billion plus. You must be kidding when you say Indain Kids respect Gandhi. Tell me what do Indians do on Oct 2( Gandhi's birthday, a national holiday in India).Supposed to be mourning, but people go to Movies,youngsters hang arround in pizzeria and restaurants or clubs, elders get together and have some chat or have some alchohol. Yes Ramakrishna Mission people had good opinions on everybody. Nehru and his family met Swami Shivanada(Tarak). Swamiji had very good opinions about Nehru and his family.But u know Nehru right, his character, worst prime minister India ever had, screwing up Kashmir issue,less said about his personal chracter is the better. Why go to extent of opinions of Monks of Ramkrishne Mission. Consider a serial killer having darshan with Ammachi, Ammachi would really like that son, praising his good qualities. Say in Nehru case we can praise for establishing IIT's. Indian army fought in world war was not due to Gandhi but due Subhash Chandra Bose( azad hind fauj). You know what did Gandhi liked after independence, not have an Indian army, because that signifies fighting, 'army' means voilence. It has no existence in Gandhi's dictionary. But what happend in 1948 pakistan attcked India, if not of Indian army , India would have faced heavy lossess. Please dont force me to state what Gandhi adviced Winston Churchill, when later asked former's help in dealing with Hitler, when Nazis where about to invade England. Goa was released from Potuguese, when Nehru threatend with dire consequences if they don't leave India, similarly Hyderabad was released from Nizam when Patel has given similar threat, not by those typical "Fasting to death" getures of Gandhi. Gandhi was stubborn, he always wanted things to be done in his way, any objections what so ever, then he would do his as usual "fasting to death". I can site numerous instances from his life after joining Indian Politics. Starting from Mophlah rebellion(1920-21) to partition of India, how he decieved millions of Indians by his extreme pessimistic views. Please don't let me start on relationship existed between Gandhi and Sri Auribindo,for your kind information Sri Aurbindo's views never synchronised with Gandhi's. Gandhi was made India's satguru by INC, who capitalised on his image every time they went to election's since than. As for my knowledge goes Rajesh, your understading of Gandhi and Indian leaders is limited to CBSE or ICSE books you must have read in high school, or some books written by INC sympathisers, or what ever you get through "Times of India","out look" etc. Gandhi was raised to such a absurd state that little bit criticism on his part would send chills to laidback, armchair Ganhians. Couple of years back there was a Marati theatre,drama running in Mumbai, this drama expressed the view of Nathuram Godse(person who shot Gandhi). For Gandhians this was a shock, they created such a havoc that the drama has to be cancelled. They absolutley have no patience in understanding Nathuram or his views. For Gandhians Nathuram is Hitler, they are least bothered or concerned about his perspectives. After 9-11 we try to know what made Bin Laden to act in that way, who is he, why did he do it?. But for Gandhians this question does'nt arise,Godse is untouchable, he should be shunned, nothing should be discussed about him, he is just evil. In India right know little bit of critisicm of Gandhi would brand you as Anti-national,spoilt brat etc. This is mass hypnosis. Brother Rajesh belive me you are certainly missing ground reality. For weterners I don't even want to respond to their mials. Their ignorance can be forgiven, when they have first hand knwolegdge of Gandhi form Martin Luther King Jr or the famous Hollywood movie which won many Oscar awards. They don't stay in India, they don't have to expereince Cancerious Hindu-muslim problem, they have absolutley no iota of prevailing situations in India. Regards Avinash. Send Flowers for Valentine's Day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 om amritesvaryai namah >>For weterners I don't even want to respond to their mials. Their ignorance can be forgiven, when they have first hand knwolegdge of Gandhi form Martin Luther King Jr or the famous Hollywood movie which won many Oscar awards. They don't stay in India, they don't have to expereince Cancerious Hindu-muslim problem, they have absolutley no iota of prevailing situations in India.<< umm, i'm sorry, but some of us westerners have as well developed an understanding of Gandhi as Indians like yourself Avinash...probably more in some ways because we can look at him within the global context better because we aren't as blinded by a misguided 'nationalism', such as you seem to have. you have a very elitist attitude, which only reflects badly on your arguments... yes, Gandhi's methods and philosophy were sometimes ill-advised or altogether wrong....i myself am at odds with much of it, particularly with his interference during Partition, which, as Sri Aurobindo made clear at the time, should not have been allowed to happen, as it would divide India in worse ways in the future...as it has. on this point, and probably a few others i would agree with you. but if you discriminate a little bit better, you'll see that his memory and model of moral courage and conviction doesn't deserve the hard line you've taken with him...you have to look at the NET EFFECT of Gandhi's mission in order to properly appreciate it, and not focus so much on the small and relatively insignificant human failings....Mother India would be far worse off had She not been given the right impetus toward self-determination which Her child Gandhi helped bring about when he did. yes, naturally, he was flawed, because he wasn't a Self-Realized Spiritual Master, but so what? he did more good for more people than you or i will probably ever do. humble yourself a bit, if you please... despite what you may believe, Gandhi's effect on India, and indeed the world, has been predominantly positive, and you and every other one of your countrymen and women, as well as every human being, owe him a great debt of gratitude...i'm sorry for you if you can't recognize this. In Amma, ~sucetas mon~ om lokah samastah sukhino bhavantu _______________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Om Namah Sivaya all, the discussion has been diverted from talk of Amma, and i am partly responsible.....its so easy to get caught up in the mind sometimes...its so tricky and sticky.....and sorry Avinash...i respect your views, though i disagree with them. GandhiGandhiGandhi...blahblahblah....sorry sorry sorry.... .....AmmaAmmaAmma..... - sucetas _______________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Dear Sucetas Mon, > we aren't as blinded by a misguided > 'nationalism', such as you seem > to have. you have a very elitist attitude, which > only reflects badly on your > arguments... I sincerely don't know what do you mean by this. Didn't I said in my mail, little bit of critisicm of Gandhi, would agonize Gandhians and they would call by all kinds of names like anti-national,spoilt brat now this "blinded by misguided natinalism" also belongs to that catogery. You youself confessed that Gandhi was not Self realised,this what I want to say. How can you except some one to read Bagvad Gita written by unrealised soul,Bagvad Gita literally means 'song of the Self'. When unrealised person writes it is written by his ego,in Gandhi's case he would interpret according to his ideals. Anyway your views are yours and my views are mine. We don't need to change anybody besides ourselves. I apolozige you and all the readers if they were hurted by my mails, but aren't we human beings with our own egos it takes some time to lose it. This is going to be my last mail on this subject. regards Avinash Send Flowers for Valentine's Day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 My Dear Avinash, Amma said while accepting Gandhi-king award- In Her acceptance speech, Amma praised the work of both Mahatma Gandhi and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. She said, "This award is in the name of two great beings who fearlessly devoted their lives towards the cause of peace, harmony and equality. Amma accepts this award on behalf of all those who pray and work for peace the world over. May this be an inspiration for people everywhere to redouble their efforts in bringing peace to our planet." "Gandhiji and Martin Luther King, Jr. were able to fulfill their mission in life not only due to the support they received from people but also they were pure at heart." In this world we have to respect all views and assimilate whatever we think is best for our deveopment. There is Parallel world for all people in this world yet people make friends and foes. There is always some convergence among this world of diverse ideas. Let us try to find out if at all we can find some converging path among our ideas. Whatever may be the differnce between our opinion, we should be free in voicing our opinion in a respectful way. I truly believe and respect your young, honest and spirited view. I hope you will agree with me that despite that we can always have some or many points on which we can disagree. In last few years I have read India today or Outlook magzines for probably couple of hours. I donot have any specific choice of magazine which I read. There will always be Hindu bashing and Hindu Loving article in various magazines but Whatever I responded in post are my personal opinion based on my common sense. It of course has some Bookish knowledge behind it( Sorry I am not a CBSE or ICSE passed candidate- **** Tell me what do Indians do on Oct 2( Gandhi's birthday, a national holiday in India).Supposed to be mourning, but people go to Movies,youngsters hang arround in pizzeria and restaurants or clubs, elders get together and have some chat or have some alchohol. ****** First oct 2 is celebration day. Comming to the question of behavious or people on that day ... yes It can be celebrated in a better way but we as a people are at fault for this. Its not specific to Gandhi. I donot think you can name any other leader for whom this does not apply. There are always follower who are honest and make every effort to follow a idea and there are follower who just respect and acknowledge a admirable personality. Though I said to you that I admire Gandhi from my heart but I canot claim that I follow his path honestly. It does not mean that any person can tell me that I donot respect Gandhi **** I know what kind of survey's they conduct, they go to some metropolitan cities and ask few 1000 people in a country of 1 billion plus. **** What other method will you suggest just to get an rough estimate? There were survey from numerous magazine and almost all of them came with identical conculsion ******* Yes Ramakrishna Mission people had good opinions on everybody. Nehru and his family met Swami Shivanada(Tarak). Swamiji had very good opinions about Nehru and his family.But u know Nehru right, his character, worst prime minister India ever had, screwing up Kashmir issue,less said about his personal chracter is the better. Why go to extent of opinions of Monks of Ramkrishne Mission. Consider a serial killer having darshan with Ammachi, Ammachi would really like that son, praising his good qualities. Say in Nehru case we can praise for establishing IIT's. ******** I have some fundamental difference with you here. I personally will give (or at least believe) 99.99% of credit to the wording of Saints in confirming my view about gandhi. It is said that its almost imposible to understand the gratness of a spiritual leader because to understand you need to be more evolved then him and if you are not that much evolved then you canot claim that you understand him. Your example of serial killer and ammachi does not suit Gandhi in my view.Two instances which I gave in my last post when Rakhal Maharaj and Mahapursh Maharaj from ramakrishna Mission Praised Gandhi to there disciple, both were in absense of Gandhi. ***** when Patel has given similar threat, not by those typical "Fasting to death" getures of Gandhi. Gandhi was stubborn, he always wanted things to be done in his way, any objections what so ever, then he would do his as usual "fasting to death". ***** There are not many instances when Gandhi used "Fasting to death" approach. Though he was a great believer of Fast in his personal life, in public life there are only two instances. One was in Choura- Chouri incident when People Burnt alive some policeman. His fast to death was to avoid furthor Bloodshed .Another was post independence Hindu-Muslim riots. How many soul can Fast To death for such a cause? Was there any one in those poisonous political atmosphere who can claim to stop a riot just be announcing that He will fast to death if people donot stop Riot? It only shows his greatness and the high values for which he sacrificed his life. Imagine the control he has over people of india even among the violent people!!!!! They stopped fighting just because they knew that He is honest in his intention to fast to death and no one wanted to be blamed ( and blamed by his own self not by any thing external) for his death. In todays Political life when political leader pay millions of dollar to do a successful or unsuccessful election event whom can you think at per in winning the heart of people. It was merit of Gandhi's good work which compelled people to stop Violence when he started his Fasting to death ******** Starting from Mophlah rebellion(1920-21) to partition of India, how he decieved millions of Indians by his extreme pessimistic views. ******** I will not use the word decieved here. There might be "n" numbers of reason for a person to disagree with Gandhi's view on a problem ... I canot imagine a person telling me that Gandhi deceived india. You can use those word for a person who does not have his heart,mind and action in sync. I doubt that any person will say that about Gandhi. though you can find a large number of people disagreeing with Gandhi's NONVIOLENCE approach. ********* Please don't let me start on relationship existed between Gandhi and Sri Auribindo,for your kind information Sri Aurbindo's views never synchronised with Gandhi's. ******** I agree with you on difference of opinion in Auribindo and Gandhi. But whats the big deal about this? Auribindo was revolutionary Freedom fighter who chose Violence against British rule. Gandhi did not believe in this. In his later part of political life Auribindo moved to Pandhichari for more intense Spiritual life then formal political movement for india. If you read a book "Pilgrims of Stars" written by disciple of Aurbindo Dilip Kumar Roy,a Friend of Subhash Chandra bose.... bose did not regard this a correct action. What I am trying to say is that even among two revolutionary leader of Freedom movement there was difference of Opinion.In my view All were great son of india , much more qualified then normal human being. "*** As for my knowledge goes Rajesh, your understading of Gandhi and Indian leaders is limited to CBSE or ICSE books you must have read in high school, or some books written by INC sympathisers, or what ever you get through "Times of India","out look" etc. **** well....I will have to agree with you on this point. but may be you will give this a thought that some of them also come from my personal feeling and whatever my mind is capable of assimilating after reading it - ******** Gandhi was raised to such a absurd state that little bit criticism on his part would send chills to laidback, armchair Ganhians. Couple of years back there was a Marati theatre,drama running in Mumbai, this drama expressed the view of Nathuram Godse(person who shot Gandhi). For Gandhians this was a shock, they created such a havoc that the drama has to be cancelled. They absolutley have no patience in understanding Nathuram or his views. For Gandhians Nathuram is Hitler, theya are least bothered or concerned about his perspectives. ********* Of course for Gandhian Nathuram godse is considered a killer and Please donot expect them to treat killer of Gandhi with respect. If you expect them to treat Nathuram with respect you are not living in real world. What I find wroth mentioning is that Brother of Nathuram Gopal Godse has written a book on Gandhi Assasination " WHY I KILLED GANDHI" which is not banned in india. Can you find an example of tolerence where a country consider a person Father of Nation and at the same time provide full access to a Book justifying the Assasination of Gandhi ? **** They don't stay in India, they don't have to expereince Cancerious Hindu-muslim problem, they have absolutley no iota of prevailing situations in India. ***** I think there is always something in this world which causes problem at Individual, society , nation or Universe level. No period and country is exception to that. Hindu-muslim is a problem in india but so is Hindu-Hindu, caste- Caste, Muslim-Muslim......... In our struggle for finding correct path let us hope that we will find something which will make us grow in our path by assimilating ideas of other people at the same time not distroying the uniqueness of other path. I respect your view and approach but at the same time I feel that they are not meant for me at this stage of my life. Amma said while accepting Gandhi-king award- "Gandhiji and Martin Luther King, Jr. were able to fulfill their mission in life not only due to the support they received from people but also they were pure at heart." Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 --- "Rajesh <rajesh_1999" <rajesh_1999 wrote: > My Dear Avinash, > > Amma said while accepting Gandhi-king award- > In Her acceptance speech, Amma praised the work of > both Mahatma > Gandhi and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. She said, > "This award is in > the name of two great beings who fearlessly devoted > their lives > towards the cause of peace, harmony and equality. > Amma accepts this > award on behalf of all those who pray and work for > peace the world > over. May this be an inspiration for people > everywhere to redouble > their efforts in bringing peace to our planet." > > "Gandhiji and Martin Luther King, Jr. were able to > fulfill their > mission in life not only due to the support they > received from people > but also they were pure at heart." > > > In this world we have to respect all views and > assimilate whatever we > think is best for our deveopment. > There is Parallel world for all people in this world > yet people make > friends and foes. There is always some > convergence among this world of diverse ideas. Let > us try to find out > if at all we can find some converging path among our > ideas. > Whatever may be the differnce between our opinion, > we should be free > in voicing our opinion in a respectful way. I truly > believe and > respect your young, honest and spirited view. > I hope you will agree with me that despite that we > can always have > some or many points on which we can disagree. > In last few years I have read India today or Outlook > magzines for > probably couple of hours. I donot have any specific > choice of magazine > which I read. There will always be Hindu bashing and > Hindu Loving > article in various magazines but Whatever I > responded in post are my > personal opinion > based on my common sense. It of course has some > Bookish knowledge > behind it( Sorry I am not a CBSE or ICSE passed > candidate- > > **** > Tell me what do Indians do on Oct 2( Gandhi's > birthday, a national > holiday in India).Supposed to be mourning, but > people go to > Movies,youngsters hang arround in pizzeria and > restaurants or clubs, > elders get together and have some chat or have some > alchohol. > ****** > First oct 2 is celebration day. Comming to the > question of behavious > or people on that day ... yes It can be celebrated > in a better way > but we as a people are at fault for this. Its not > specific to Gandhi. > I donot think you can name any other leader for whom > this does not > apply. There are always follower who are honest and > make every effort > to follow a idea and there are follower who just > respect and > acknowledge a admirable personality. Though I said > to you that I > admire Gandhi from my heart but I canot claim that I > follow his path > honestly. It does not mean that any person can tell > me that I donot > respect Gandhi > **** > I know what kind of survey's they conduct, they go > to some > metropolitan cities and ask few 1000 people in a > country of 1 billion > plus. > **** > What other method will you suggest just to get an > rough estimate? > There were survey from numerous magazine and almost > all of them came > with identical conculsion > ******* > Yes Ramakrishna Mission people had good opinions > on everybody. Nehru and his family met Swami > Shivanada(Tarak). Swamiji had very good opinions > about > Nehru and his family.But u know Nehru right, his > character, worst prime minister India ever had, > screwing up Kashmir issue,less said about his > personal > chracter is the better. Why go to extent of opinions > of Monks of Ramkrishne Mission. Consider a serial > killer having darshan with Ammachi, Ammachi would > really like that son, praising his good qualities. > Say > in Nehru case we can praise for establishing IIT's. > ******** > I have some fundamental difference with you here. I > personally will > give (or at least believe) 99.99% of credit to the > wording of Saints > in confirming my view about gandhi. It is said that > its almost > imposible to understand the gratness of a spiritual > leader because > to understand you need to be more evolved then him > and if you are not > that much evolved then you canot claim that you > understand him. Your > example of serial killer and ammachi does not suit > Gandhi in my > view.Two instances which I gave in my last post when > Rakhal Maharaj > and Mahapursh Maharaj from ramakrishna Mission > Praised Gandhi to > there disciple, both were in absense of Gandhi. > > > ***** > when Patel has given similar threat, not by those > typical "Fasting to > death" > getures of Gandhi. Gandhi was stubborn, he always > wanted things to be done in his way, any objections > what so ever, then he would do his as usual "fasting > to death". > ***** > There are not many instances when Gandhi used > "Fasting to death" > approach. Though he was a great believer of Fast in > his personal > life, in public life there are only two instances. > One was in Choura- > Chouri incident when People Burnt alive some > policeman. His fast to > death was to avoid furthor Bloodshed .Another was > post independence > Hindu-Muslim riots. How many soul can Fast To death > for such a cause? > Was there any one in those poisonous political > atmosphere who can > claim to stop a riot just be announcing that He will > fast to death if > people donot stop Riot? It only shows his greatness > and the high > values for which he sacrificed his life. Imagine the > control he has > over people of india even among the violent > people!!!!! They stopped > fighting just because they knew that He is honest in > his intention to > fast to death and no one wanted to be blamed ( and > blamed by his own > self not by any thing external) for his death. In > todays Political > life when political leader pay millions of dollar to > do a successful > or unsuccessful election event whom can you think at > per in winning > the heart of people. It was merit of Gandhi's good > work which > compelled people to stop Violence when he started > his Fasting to death > ******** > Starting from Mophlah rebellion(1920-21) to > partition of India, how > he decieved millions of Indians by his extreme > pessimistic views. > ******** > I will not use the word decieved here. There might > be "n" numbers of > reason for a person to disagree with Gandhi's view > on a problem ... I > canot imagine a person telling me that Gandhi > deceived india. You can > use those word for a person who does not have his > heart,mind and > action in sync. I doubt that any person will say > that about Gandhi. > though you can find a large number of people > disagreeing with > Gandhi's NONVIOLENCE approach. > > > ********* > === message truncated === Dear Rajesh, You are correct. Send Flowers for Valentine's Day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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