Guest guest Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 This incident happened on September 14, Friday, 1984 in the Amritapuri ashram in India. A few days ago, one of the ashram residents in Amritapuri had transplanted a half-grown mango tree to another spot in the ashram. Thinking that it did not look good in its current location, and with the help of other residents, he transplanted the sapling. However, he did not consult Amma. About a couple of days later Amma made an unannounced inspection of the premises. On reaching a certain spot she said, "Something is missing. What is it?" Everyone turned pale; no one spoke. "Shiva! Where is the mango tree!" Amma exclaimed. All remained silent. No one dared to say a word. Amma once again enquired, "What happened to the mango tree? Has someone cut it down?" Finally one resident stepped forward, and in a very feeble voice said, "Amma Nedumudi moved the tree from here to the other side and we all helped him transplant it." "Where? Where did you plant it?" Amma said in a very worried tone. With the resident leading the way, Amma and the group walked to the place where the mango tree had been transplanted. Seeing its withered limbs, Amma called out in a heart-broken tone, "Shivane! What did you do to this tree? How could you do this? What a great sin you have committed. Why didn't you ask me before you moved it? I wouldn't have allowed you to do such a thing. I can't bear the sight of this poor wilted tree." There was much pain and concern in Amma's words; Her agony was even expressed on her face. She displayed the feelings and concern of a mother for her hurt child. Amma squatted down on the bare ground with her head down and her hands on her forehead. Those who stood near Amma noticed that she was wiping away tears. While some wondered why Amma would cry over such a silly matter, others were overwhelmed with admiration for the divine love and compassion that she could show toward all of nature, even toward plants. Moved by Amma's emotion, some could not control their own tears. "Children, please do not destroy life like this ever again. Such acts are not fitting for those on the spiritual path. Our goal is to feel life everywhere. We should avoid destruction. We have no right to destroy. We cannot create; therefore we should not destroy. Only God can create, sustain and destroy. All three are beyond our capacity." "We must remember that everything is sentient, that everything is full of consciousness and life. Everything exists in God." "When Amma talks about the 'world', she is not talking only about human beings. The 'world' includes everything - humans and animals, plants and trees - the whole of nature. It is true that human beings are the most visibly evolved creatures, but that doesn't mean other forms of life are without feelings. The Vedas and the Upanishads say that everything is pervaded by consciousness." "Man is dependent on Nature for his very existence. Nature is an indispensable part of life on earth. Without Nature, no creature, not man nor anything else, can live. Therefore, it is one of the foremost duties to lovingly care for all living things." Amma fasted that day, seeing the indiscriminate action of her children. Amma once again went up to the tree. This time she embraced it and kissed its trunk. As if addressing the very life of the tree or some deity which presided over it, she spoke, "My children acted indiscriminately. They are ignorant children. I consider it my own fault. How can it be otherwise? I have not taught them well enough for them to understand and feel that there is life in all of creation. I seek your forgiveness on my children's behalf. Forgive them for their ignorant act. " Amma once again embraced the tree and kissed it before walking directly back to the ashram. Everyone had thought that the tree was dead. It had shed all its leaves and its young trunk had gone limp. Not long after receiving mother's attention, the tree slowly began to show signs of life. And now, to everyone's great relief, it was again looking healthy and well. Only now did the residents realize the significance of Amma's embracing and kissing the tree. In doing so, she must have transmitted new life into it. Who can understand the meaning of Amma's actions... But we all know that at the substratum of all her actions and words lies " true love". Jai Ma, Ravi Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2003 Report Share Posted February 27, 2003 Ravi: > "Children, please do not destroy life like this ever > again. Such acts are not fitting for those on the > spiritual path. Our goal is to feel life everywhere. > We should avoid destruction. We have no right to > destroy. We cannot create; therefore we should not > destroy. Only God can create, sustain and destroy. All > three are beyond our capacity." > A very beautiful story you share with us! Wish I was there. If I was, I might be tempted to ask Amma some questions: Is the life of a flower any less important than the tree? How about a weed? Is its live any less important? It is only our judgement that separates flowers from weeds. How about a blade of grass? Is its life any less important? Or even cutting grass. Does that not do harm? Or cutting the blooms of the flowers to adorn our Temples and houses and festive occassions. Are we to let the weeds grow even if they choke out flowers? Even if they choke out the plants that give us food to survive? Or killing plants so we can extract their essences for our medicines? If we fail to destroy some plant life, it would hinder our transportation systems, prevent us from growing food and the planet would look like a jungle. How about the Ashram? Were trees and plants not destroyed in order to build the Temple and buildings to house the residents and visitors? Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2003 Report Share Posted February 27, 2003 Ravi: > Remember, the flower is a gift from the plant/tree on > which it grows! The tree gives us fruits and flowers > to enjoy just as the cow gives us its milk to nourish > us. > Does the plant/tree really GIVE us the gift? Does the tree GIVES us fruit? Does the cow GIVES us milk? The tree grows its fruits, but it is we who TAKE it. The plant, tree, cow, etc. do not have a choice. We takefrom it what we want. > The mango tree in the story below was apparently a > good soul that was close to Ammachi! > Ah, Ravi, APPARENTLY! Isn't this what you read into the story? Amma made no judgements about the tree's soul. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2003 Report Share Posted February 27, 2003 Bala: > difference between 'legitimate use' and > 'exploitation'. Ah, now there is a vey fine blurred line of gray. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2003 Report Share Posted February 27, 2003 Peter AS an aswer to your questions, I would refer you to Awaken Children Vol5 where Amma discusses the difference between 'legitimate use' and 'exploitation'. In that episode Amma chides an attendant for plucking more leaves than was strictly necessary. As regards Amma's reverence to all life, there are any number of episodes for that. Once a devotee saw a bug near Amma and was about to kill it.Amma stopped him from killing it, took the bug in Her hands, kept it near Her cheek giving it darshan, asked for a piece of cloth, put the bug in the cloth, put some flower petals in the cloth, tied the cloth into a bundle, and asked the devotee to take the cloth outside and release the bug carefully in the garden. namah shivaya bala --- pwhite0130 wrote: > Ravi: > > > "Children, please do not destroy life like this ever > > again. Such acts are not fitting for those on the > > spiritual path. Our goal is to feel life everywhere. > > We should avoid destruction. We have no right to > > destroy. We cannot create; therefore we should not > > destroy. Only God can create, sustain and destroy. All > > three are beyond our capacity." > > > > A very beautiful story you share with us! > > Wish I was there. If I was, I might be tempted to ask Amma some > questions: > > Is the life of a flower any less important than the tree? > > How about a weed? Is its live any less important? It is only our > judgement > that separates flowers from weeds. > > How about a blade of grass? Is its life any less important? > > Or even cutting grass. Does that not do harm? Or cutting the blooms > of the > flowers to adorn our Temples and houses and festive occassions. > > Are we to let the weeds grow even if they choke out flowers? Even > if they > choke out the plants that give us food to survive? > > Or killing plants so we can extract their essences for our > medicines? > > If we fail to destroy some plant life, it would hinder our > transportation > systems, prevent us from growing food and the planet would look > like a > jungle. > > How about the Ashram? Were trees and plants not destroyed in order > to build > the Temple and buildings to house the residents and visitors? > > Peter > > > > > Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2003 Report Share Posted February 27, 2003 Om Namah Shivaya Peter, Very valid questions. Here is what I think: >Is the life of a flower any less important than the > tree? Remember, the flower is a gift from the plant/tree on which it grows! The tree gives us fruits and flowers to enjoy just as the cow gives us its milk to nourish us. > How about a weed? Is its live any less important? It > is only our judgement that separates flowers from weeds. > How about a blade of grass? Is its life any less > important? > Are we to let the weeds grow even if they choke out > flowers? Even if they > choke out the plants that give us food to survive? > > Or killing plants so we can extract their essences > for our medicines? According to the Gita, every soul takes multiple births and moves to higher and higher life forms as per its karma. (We are at the top of the Karmic chain and became human because once upon a time we have been a plant, animal, etc and have done good deeds!) Say you are a plant and by your destruction, medicines are created to heal people. There you go, with 500 karmic bonus points! You can be a tree and if your good again, you can be a small animal..till finally one becomes a human. The human form is best adapted for realization. The mango tree in the story below was apparently a good soul that was close to Ammachi! Jai Ma, Ravi > > "Children, please do not destroy life like this > > ever > > again. Such acts are not fitting for those on the > > spiritual path. Our goal is to feel life > > everywhere. > > We should avoid destruction. We have no right to > > destroy. We cannot create; therefore we should not > > destroy. Only God can create, sustain and destroy. > > All three are beyond our capacity." Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2003 Report Share Posted February 27, 2003 --- Ravishankar Krishnan <ravkris wrote: > Om Namah Shivaya Peter, > Very valid questions. Here is what I think: > > >Is the life of a flower any less important than the > > tree? > > Remember, the flower is a gift from the plant/tree > on > which it grows! The tree gives us fruits and flowers > to enjoy just as the cow gives us its milk to > nourish > us. > > > > How about a weed? Is its live any less important? > It > > is only our judgement that separates flowers from > > weeds. > > > How about a blade of grass? Is its life any less > > important? > > > Are we to let the weeds grow even if they choke > out > > flowers? Even if they > > choke out the plants that give us food to survive? > > > > Or killing plants so we can extract their essences > > for our medicines? > > > According to the Gita, every soul takes multiple > births and moves to higher and higher life forms as > per its karma. (We are at the top of the Karmic > chain > and became human because once upon a time we have > been > a plant, animal, etc and have done good deeds!) > > Say you are a plant and by your destruction, > medicines > are created to heal people. There you go, with 500 > karmic bonus points! You can be a tree and if your > good again, you can be a small animal..till finally > one becomes a human. The human form is best adapted > for realization. > > The mango tree in the story below was apparently a > good soul that was close to Ammachi! > > Jai Ma, > Ravi > > > > > "Children, please do not destroy life like this > > > ever > > > again. Such acts are not fitting for those on > the > > > spiritual path. Our goal is to feel life > > > everywhere. > > > We should avoid destruction. We have no right to > > > destroy. We cannot create; therefore we should > not > > > destroy. Only God can create, sustain and > destroy. > > > All three are beyond our capacity." om Besides everything,In certain situations after cremation of human body, ashes are mixed with the soil and a new sapling is planted(recycle, giving and taking back) Namah Shivaya. > > > > Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > http://taxes./ > Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2003 Report Share Posted February 27, 2003 --- pwhite0130 wrote: > Ravi: > > > Remember, the flower is a gift from the plant/tree > on > > which it grows! The tree gives us fruits and > flowers > > to enjoy just as the cow gives us its milk to > nourish > > us. > > > > Does the plant/tree really GIVE us the gift? > > Does the tree GIVES us fruit? > > Does the cow GIVES us milk? > > The tree grows its fruits, but it is we who TAKE it. > > The plant, tree, cow, etc. do not have a choice. We > takefrom it what we want. Yes we take milk from animals but we are not killing the animlas, similarly we take fruits from trees but we dont kill them. Yes plants do have consciousness(proved by J.C. bose), but it is very subtle and sublime, when some one feeds on vegetables the suffering is much less than compared to eating meat (where animals had be slaughtered in pain and suffering). Then aren't tress depending on nature like sun, water, soil and nutreints formed after decomposition of animals and various plants. Its a cycle of prana or energy. regards Avinash > > > > The mango tree in the story below was apparently a > > good soul that was close to Ammachi! > > > > Ah, Ravi, APPARENTLY! Isn't this what you read into > the story? Amma made no > judgements about the tree's soul. > > Peter > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 Avinash: > we take fruits from trees but > we dont kill them. OK. Then how about a carrot or potato? In the act of taking these things for our survival, we kill them. Want a higher live form? What about a fish? > > when some one feeds > on vegetables the suffering is much less than compared > to eating meat (where animals had be slaughtered in > pain and suffering). Who are you refering to as suffering? The plant/animal or us eating them? How do you know that a potato dying suffers less than an animal dying? The potatos life is just as important to the potato as the animals life is to the animal. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 Om Namah Shivaya Peter, > Does the plant/tree really GIVE us the gift? Let me quote Amma here: "Children, be like the tree which gives shade even to those who cut it" Giving nature's bounty to us (all lifeforms included) is second nature to vegetation. Does a tree stop giving you shade just because you would like to cut it? > Does the tree GIVES us fruit? A tree produces fruits for propogation of its species, so that the fruit becomes a plant, then a tree and so on. However, the divine designer has given it a surplus amount of fruits to give to us! A few fruits do get propogated and that is the reason we still have fruit trees on this planet! > Does the cow GIVES us milk? By the same reasoning, a cow produces much MORE milk than its calf can consume. GoMata (cow as one of the five motherly forms) is more than happy to give us the excess milk, if we treat her well! [and in many cases, even though not well kept] > The tree grows its fruits, but it is we who TAKE it. > The plant, tree, cow, etc. do not have a choice. We > takefrom it what we want. All Im going to say is, take it or leave it! We need organic matter to survive. A potato or carrot does not have five sense organs like us, although it does respond to stimuli. Sure, the plant has life. But, in feeding us, it gains the karmic *brownie* points to become a higher life form. > Ah, Ravi, APPARENTLY! Isn't this what you read into > the story? Amma made no > judgements about the tree's soul. How many times has Mother told us not to be so judgemental? Apologies! Jai Ma, Ravi Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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