Guest guest Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 Namah Shivaya all, It has been a divine time with Amma so far on the tour . I managed by Her grace to attend Her programs starting with the Seattle retreat and the evening programs at San Ramon . Amma is as usual ever fresh and beautiful . I guess most of you would have kept up with the updates at Amma.org . I want to repeat here a wonderful conversation some of my friends and I had with Amma on the night of June 20th here in San Ramon. I had just been telling some friends about how nice it would be if I could just walk up to Amma and talk to Her from the side ... well that night She answered my prayer- I went up to Her on the side to ask a personal question- then sat there and with a few friends next to me had a conversation with Her for the next couple of hours that has filled me up with all the answers that I perhaps ever need. Here is what happened. As i was sitting next to Amma, the conversation somehow went to the topic of householder devotees. As many of you know, Amma usually jokes about married life being like a bullock cart- one of the spouses is the bull that draws the cart, the other spouse is the cart and the children are the luggage the cart carries. Amma sometimes jokingly asks poeple to get married and says ' Mattu vandi ottura'-"Go drive the bullock cart". She had just joked like that with someone- and someone asked Her "Amma, if the spouses are the bull and the cart respectively, WHO IS THE DRIVER?" Amma replied " LIFE!" Amma then said "Life is the driver. Life will give you blows and teach you how to pull the cart!" At which point I asked : "Amma if YOU drive the cart then there is no problem isnt it?" Amma replied " YES. BUT NO ONE WANTS TO GIVE ME THE ROPE TO CONTROL THE CART. THEY RUN AWAY BEFORE I CAN TIE THE ROPE ON THEM". She was refering to the rope that the bull is tied with- in India you will see the bullock carts with the rope tied through the bull's nose. Amma said "They run away before I can tie the rope"- meaning very few surrender to Her and allow Her to drive the cart . So I asked Her " Amma how does surrender( saranagati) happen?". Amma replied "When you are hungry You will eat"-( I took it to mean that when you are hungry for God, surrender will happen). Amma then added "When you are hungry you will eat.... Saranagati- ..... that is very difficult". My friend Ullas asked Her "Amma if husband and wife are both spiritual minded, then isnt spiritual life possible after marriage?" Amma replied " Valara nalladu- thats very nice. if both of them are spiritual minded then thats a very happy circumstance- very good . But they shouldnt increase their attachments. - If they start having children and distract themselves with attachments, then that may lead to problems". Amma probably referred to the fact that there are many householder disciples of Hers who pratice celibacy and lead spiritual lives or pratice celibacy after having their first child . At this point in the conversation, Nandu walked in and the topic changed to Vedanta. Amma saw Nandu and said "Oh the vedantin has walked in" - and then asked him "What is vedanta?" " Amma doesnt know any vedanta.. People merely read books and preach vedanta without pratcising ". I said "Amma- you see the Yourself in all beings and hug them all- isnt this vedanta- what you do is vedanta in practice". Amma ignored that comment and spoke again : "Some people read books and they dont practice anything- they mere mouth'vedanta'. They say 'I am not the body' but their mouth waters if they see a delicious dish - they merely read books, dont do sadhana, lose their tempers all the time, dont cultivate virtues, ... and call themselves vedantins'. ( I was wondering if She was referring to me! ) Amma continued" Even Ramana Maharishi , who is accepted as a great vedantin talked about puja and japa- in his work the Upadesa Saram , Ramana says first the aspirant starts with puja, then japa, then tapas- then only when the mind is in 'leenasthithi'- in an absorbed state does the time come for Self enquiry'. 'People read vedanta, and decry bhakti- but they walk around Arunacahala like Sri Ramana did- isnt that bhakti- seeing God in a stone?" " In the olden days the Guru used to make the students stusy the shastras for 20 years. Only after 20 years of study, to a few selected worthy disciples the Guru used to give the Brahma Sutras- ( vedantic text on brahman). But nowadays people just buy a copy of the brahma Sutras and read them and dont practice anything". Amma then gave a few startling comments on Her own role- " In Ramana Maharishi's case a few advanced disciples came to Him and asked him spiritual questions. So he talked vedanta to them. In Amma's case thousands come- and they ask Me all sorts of questions-what job to take, should i buy a house, can i get a girlfriend etc etc- how can I talk vedanta to them?- all kinds of people come to Amma- doctors, lawyers, engineers, clerks-prostitutes, theives ...... Can Amma start talking vedanta to all of them? Amma has to come to their level and talk to them". Amma again said " I have descended into the market place".( the crowd laughed ). "I am not selling diamonds now- i have to start selling trivial things, then give people the diamonds when they are ready for it". Then Amma drew a great comparison - "Krishna was also like this- He had to talk to everyone about their dharma- to the student, to the teacher, to the sioldier etc.. He too had to deal with the masses". I felt this was a great comparision and just then the conversation literally took off : Nandu asked Amma:" Amma, some people say that realizing God is greater than Realizing Brahman. Is this true?" Amma said" No they are the same- but one can have a vision of God- Iswara Darsan but still not give up the ego and be fully realized- like Namdev". ( Amma was referring to the saint Namdev who used to visions of Sri Krishna but still did not give up his ego- he bcame fully realized only after that). At this point, by sheer grace , I was inspired to ask what i think is THE question of my life: " AMMA, YOU TALK ABOUT PEOPLE WHO GET A VISION OF GOD- ISWARA DARSHAN- AMMA, WE ARE SEEING YOU NOW IN FRONT OF US- WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SEEING YOU AND HAVING A VISION OF GOD?" AMMA looked at me and very simply and spontaneously replied : "That depends upon your Manobhava- attitude . ..... Arjuna saw Krishna only as a friend- but later on when he realized the truth, he saw Krishna as God". We were all stunned by the answer. I was blown away by the utter simplicity of the reply- The comparision again between Krishna and Herself- and the reference to Arjuna's point of view. Pressing the point, I asked another question: "Amma, then how how does one develop the attitude to see you as God?". Amma replied " GET LOST!" ( in tamil She said 'Nee Poda ".) "Amma doesnt want anyone to see Her as God. On the contrary Amma wants to see all of you as God and worship you as such. Today people will call me God- tomorow they will call me something else. Amma knows who has real faith and who is giving mere lip service-when Amma tests them, then the truth will come out -if they really feel what they say. Amma is not interested in anyone calling Her God". The conversation ended there - frankly i was too stunned by that reply of Hers. Basically She was saying that like Arjuna saw Krishna as a friend first we are seeing Her as a normal person. But when he realized the truth He saw who Krishna really was. Similarly , depending upon our manobhava, Amma is either a simple lady from India- or if we realize the truth- we will see who She really is - God. Jai Ma bala SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 WOW!!!! In a message dated 7/2/03 5:46:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Ammachi writes: << Message: 1 Tue, 1 Jul 2003 17:56:14 -0700 (PDT) balakrishnan Shankar <balakrishnan_sh Tour update- conversation with Amma Namah Shivaya all, It has been a divine time with Amma so far on the tour . I managed by Her grace to attend Her programs starting with the Seattle retreat and the evening programs at San Ramon . Amma is as usual ever fresh and beautiful . I guess most of you would have kept up with the updates at Amma.org . I want to repeat here a wonderful conversation some of my friends and I had with Amma on the night of June 20th here in San Ramon. I had just been telling some friends about how nice it would be if I could just walk up to Amma and talk to Her from the side ... well that night She answered my prayer- I went up to Her on the side to ask a personal question- then sat there and with a few friends next to me had a conversation with Her for the next couple of hours that has filled me up with all the answers that I perhaps ever need. Here is what happened. As i was sitting next to Amma, the conversation somehow went to the topic of householder devotees. As many of you know, Amma usually jokes about married life being like a bullock cart- one of the spouses is the bull that draws the cart, the other spouse is the cart and the children are the luggage the cart carries. Amma sometimes jokingly asks poeple to get married and says ' Mattu vandi ottura'-"Go drive the bullock cart". She had just joked like that with someone- and someone asked Her "Amma, if the spouses are the bull and the cart respectively, WHO IS THE DRIVER?" Amma replied " LIFE!" Amma then said "Life is the driver. Life will give you blows and teach you how to pull the cart!" At which point I asked : "Amma if YOU drive the cart then there is no problem isnt it?" Amma replied " YES. BUT NO ONE WANTS TO GIVE ME THE ROPE TO CONTROL THE CART. THEY RUN AWAY BEFORE I CAN TIE THE ROPE ON THEM". She was refering to the rope that the bull is tied with- in India you will see the bullock carts with the rope tied through the bull's nose. Amma said "They run away before I can tie the rope"- meaning very few surrender to Her and allow Her to drive the cart . So I asked Her " Amma how does surrender( saranagati) happen?". Amma replied "When you are hungry You will eat"-( I took it to mean that when you are hungry for God, surrender will happen). Amma then added "When you are hungry you will eat.... Saranagati- ..... that is very difficult". My friend Ullas asked Her "Amma if husband and wife are both spiritual minded, then isnt spiritual life possible after marriage?" Amma replied " Valara nalladu- thats very nice. if both of them are spiritual minded then thats a very happy circumstance- very good . But they shouldnt increase their attachments. - If they start having children and distract themselves with attachments, then that may lead to problems". Amma probably referred to the fact that there are many householder disciples of Hers who pratice celibacy and lead spiritual lives or pratice celibacy after having their first child . At this point in the conversation, Nandu walked in and the topic changed to Vedanta. Amma saw Nandu and said "Oh the vedantin has walked in" - and then asked him "What is vedanta?" " Amma doesnt know any vedanta.. People merely read books and preach vedanta without pratcising ". I said "Amma- you see the Yourself in all beings and hug them all- isnt this vedanta- what you do is vedanta in practice". Amma ignored that comment and spoke again : "Some people read books and they dont practice anything- they mere mouth'vedanta'. They say 'I am not the body' but their mouth waters if they see a delicious dish - they merely read books, dont do sadhana, lose their tempers all the time, dont cultivate virtues, ... and call themselves vedantins'. ( I was wondering if She was referring to me! ) Amma continued" Even Ramana Maharishi , who is accepted as a great vedantin talked about puja and japa- in his work the Upadesa Saram , Ramana says first the aspirant starts with puja, then japa, then tapas- then only when the mind is in 'leenasthithi'- in an absorbed state does the time come for Self enquiry'. 'People read vedanta, and decry bhakti- but they walk around Arunacahala like Sri Ramana did- isnt that bhakti- seeing God in a stone?" " In the olden days the Guru used to make the students stusy the shastras for 20 years. Only after 20 years of study, to a few selected worthy disciples the Guru used to give the Brahma Sutras- ( vedantic text on brahman). But nowadays people just buy a copy of the brahma Sutras and read them and dont practice anything". Amma then gave a few startling comments on Her own role- " In Ramana Maharishi's case a few advanced disciples came to Him and asked him spiritual questions. So he talked vedanta to them. In Amma's case thousands come- and they ask Me all sorts of questions-what job to take, should i buy a house, can i get a girlfriend etc etc- how can I talk vedanta to them?- all kinds of people come to Amma- doctors, lawyers, engineers, clerks-prostitutes, theives ...... Can Amma start talking vedanta to all of them? Amma has to come to their level and talk to them". Amma again said " I have descended into the market place".( the crowd laughed ). "I am not selling diamonds now- i have to start selling trivial things, then give people the diamonds when they are ready for it". Then Amma drew a great comparison - "Krishna was also like this- He had to talk to everyone about their dharma- to the student, to the teacher, to the sioldier etc.. He too had to deal with the masses". I felt this was a great comparision and just then the conversation literally took off : Nandu asked Amma:" Amma, some people say that realizing God is greater than Realizing Brahman. Is this true?" Amma said" No they are the same- but one can have a vision of God- Iswara Darsan but still not give up the ego and be fully realized- like Namdev". ( Amma was referring to the saint Namdev who used to visions of Sri Krishna but still did not give up his ego- he bcame fully realized only after that). At this point, by sheer grace , I was inspired to ask what i think is THE question of my life: " AMMA, YOU TALK ABOUT PEOPLE WHO GET A VISION OF GOD- ISWARA DARSHAN- AMMA, WE ARE SEEING YOU NOW IN FRONT OF US- WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SEEING YOU AND HAVING A VISION OF GOD?" AMMA looked at me and very simply and spontaneously replied : "That depends upon your Manobhava- attitude . ..... Arjuna saw Krishna only as a friend- but later on when he realized the truth, he saw Krishna as God". We were all stunned by the answer. I was blown away by the utter simplicity of the reply- The comparision again between Krishna and Herself- and the reference to Arjuna's point of view. Pressing the point, I asked another question: "Amma, then how how does one develop the attitude to see you as God?". Amma replied " GET LOST!" ( in tamil She said 'Nee Poda ".) "Amma doesnt want anyone to see Her as God. On the contrary Amma wants to see all of you as God and worship you as such. Today people will call me God- tomorow they will call me something else. Amma knows who has real faith and who is giving mere lip service-when Amma tests them, then the truth will come out -if they really feel what they say. Amma is not interested in anyone calling Her God". The conversation ended there - frankly i was too stunned by that reply of Hers. Basically She was saying that like Arjuna saw Krishna as a friend first we are seeing Her as a normal person. But when he realized the truth He saw who Krishna really was. Similarly , depending upon our manobhava, Amma is either a simple lady from India- or if we realize the truth- we will see who She really is - God. Jai Ma bala >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Dear balaji I really liked your conversation with Amma. Please share your view about surrender. what is total surrender. Is it that we leave everything and and serve amma in her ashram or do our assigned duty at our place? Jai Ma amma's child Ammachi, balakrishnan Shankar <balakrishnan_sh> wrote: > > > Namah Shivaya all, > > It has been a divine time with Amma so far on the tour . I managed by Her grace to attend Her programs starting with the Seattle retreat and the evening programs at San Ramon . Amma is as usual ever fresh and beautiful . I guess most of you would have kept up with the updates at Amma.org . > > I want to repeat here a wonderful conversation some of my friends and I had with Amma on the night of June 20th here in San Ramon. I had just been telling some friends about how nice it would be if I could just walk up to Amma and talk to Her from the side ... well that night She answered my prayer- I went up to Her on the side to ask a personal question- then sat there and with a few friends next to me had a conversation with Her for the next couple of hours that has filled me up with all the answers that I perhaps ever need. > > Here is what happened. > > As i was sitting next to Amma, the conversation somehow went to the topic of householder devotees. As many of you know, Amma usually jokes about married life being like a bullock cart- one of the spouses is the bull that draws the cart, the other spouse is the cart and the children are the luggage the cart carries. > > Amma sometimes jokingly asks poeple to get married and says ' Mattu vandi ottura'-"Go drive the bullock cart". > > She had just joked like that with someone- and someone asked Her "Amma, if the spouses are the bull and the cart respectively, WHO IS THE DRIVER?" > > Amma replied " LIFE!" > > Amma then said "Life is the driver. Life will give you blows and teach you how to pull the cart!" > > At which point I asked : "Amma if YOU drive the cart then there is no problem isnt it?" > > Amma replied " YES. BUT NO ONE WANTS TO GIVE ME THE ROPE TO CONTROL THE CART. THEY RUN AWAY BEFORE I CAN TIE THE ROPE ON THEM". > > She was refering to the rope that the bull is tied with- in India you will see the bullock carts with the rope tied through the bull's nose. > > Amma said "They run away before I can tie the rope"- meaning very few surrender to Her and allow Her to drive the cart . > > So I asked Her " Amma how does surrender( saranagati) happen?". > > Amma replied "When you are hungry You will eat"-( I took it to mean that when you are hungry for God, surrender will happen). > > Amma then added "When you are hungry you will eat.... Saranagati- ...... that is very difficult". > > > My friend Ullas asked Her "Amma if husband and wife are both spiritual minded, then isnt spiritual life possible after marriage?" > > Amma replied " Valara nalladu- thats very nice. if both of them are spiritual minded then thats a very happy circumstance- very good . But they shouldnt increase their attachments. - If they start having children and distract themselves with attachments, then that may lead to problems". Amma probably referred to the fact that there are many householder disciples of Hers who pratice celibacy and lead spiritual lives or pratice celibacy after having their first child . > > At this point in the conversation, Nandu walked in and the topic changed to Vedanta. > > Amma saw Nandu and said "Oh the vedantin has walked in" - and then asked him "What is vedanta?" > > " Amma doesnt know any vedanta.. People merely read books and preach vedanta without pratcising ". > > I said "Amma- you see the Yourself in all beings and hug them all- isnt this vedanta- what you do is vedanta in practice". > > Amma ignored that comment and spoke again : > > "Some people read books and they dont practice anything- they mere mouth'vedanta'. They say 'I am not the body' but their mouth waters if they see a delicious dish - they merely read books, dont do sadhana, lose their tempers all the time, dont cultivate virtues, ... and call themselves vedantins'. > > ( I was wondering if She was referring to me! ) > > Amma continued" Even Ramana Maharishi , who is accepted as a great vedantin talked about puja and japa- in his work the Upadesa Saram , Ramana says first the aspirant starts with puja, then japa, then tapas- then only when the mind is in 'leenasthithi'- in an absorbed state does the time come for Self enquiry'. > > 'People read vedanta, and decry bhakti- but they walk around Arunacahala like Sri Ramana did- isnt that bhakti- seeing God in a stone?" > > " In the olden days the Guru used to make the students stusy the shastras for 20 years. Only after 20 years of study, to a few selected worthy disciples the Guru used to give the Brahma Sutras- ( vedantic text on brahman). But nowadays people just buy a copy of the brahma Sutras and read them and dont practice anything". > > Amma then gave a few startling comments on Her own role- " In Ramana Maharishi's case a few advanced disciples came to Him and asked him spiritual questions. So he talked vedanta to them. In Amma's case thousands come- and they ask Me all sorts of questions-what job to take, should i buy a house, can i get a girlfriend etc etc- how can I talk vedanta to them?- all kinds of people come to Amma- doctors, lawyers, engineers, clerks-prostitutes, theives ...... Can Amma start talking vedanta to all of them? Amma has to come to their level and talk to them". > > Amma again said " I have descended into the market place".( the crowd laughed ). "I am not selling diamonds now- i have to start selling trivial things, then give people the diamonds when they are ready for it". > > Then Amma drew a great comparison - "Krishna was also like this- He had to talk to everyone about their dharma- to the student, to the teacher, to the sioldier etc.. He too had to deal with the masses". > > I felt this was a great comparision and just then the conversation literally took off : > > Nandu asked Amma:" Amma, some people say that realizing God is greater than Realizing Brahman. Is this true?" > > Amma said" No they are the same- but one can have a vision of God- Iswara Darsan but still not give up the ego and be fully realized- like Namdev". > > ( Amma was referring to the saint Namdev who used to visions of Sri Krishna but still did not give up his ego- he bcame fully realized only after that). > > At this point, by sheer grace , I was inspired to ask what i think is THE question of my life: > > " AMMA, YOU TALK ABOUT PEOPLE WHO GET A VISION OF GOD- ISWARA DARSHAN- AMMA, WE ARE SEEING YOU NOW IN FRONT OF US- WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SEEING YOU AND HAVING A VISION OF GOD?" > > > AMMA looked at me and very simply and spontaneously replied : > > "That depends upon your Manobhava- attitude . ..... Arjuna saw Krishna only as a friend- but later on when he realized the truth, he saw Krishna as God". > > We were all stunned by the answer. I was blown away by the utter simplicity of the reply- The comparision again between Krishna and Herself- and the reference to Arjuna's point of view. > > Pressing the point, I asked another question: > > "Amma, then how how does one develop the attitude to see you as God?". > > Amma replied " GET LOST!" ( in tamil She said 'Nee Poda ".) "Amma doesnt want anyone to see Her as God. On the contrary Amma wants to see all of you as God and worship you as such. Today people will call me God- tomorow they will call me something else. Amma knows who has real faith and who is giving mere lip service-when Amma tests them, then the truth will come out -if they really feel what they say. Amma is not interested in anyone calling Her God". > > > The conversation ended there - frankly i was too stunned by that reply of Hers. Basically She was saying that like Arjuna saw Krishna as a friend first we are seeing Her as a normal person. But when he realized the truth He saw who Krishna really was. Similarly , depending upon our manobhava, Amma is either a simple lady from India- or if we realize the truth- we will see who She really is - God. > > > Jai Ma > > bala > > > > > > > SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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