Digest Number 861

[Guest guest]

wow is right!!

 

 

 

>Message: 1

> Wed, 2 Jul 2003 22:53:44 EDT

> Dianadevi

>Re: Tour update- conversation with Amma

>

>

>WOW!!!!

>

>In a message dated 7/2/03 5:46:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

>Ammachi writes:

>

><< Message: 1

> Tue, 1 Jul 2003 17:56:14 -0700 (PDT)

> balakrishnan Shankar <balakrishnan_sh

> Tour update- conversation with Amma

>

>

>

> Namah Shivaya all,

>

> It has been a divine time with Amma so far on the tour . I managed by Her

>grace to attend Her programs starting with the Seattle retreat and the

>evening

>programs at San Ramon . Amma is as usual ever fresh and beautiful . I guess

>most of you would have kept up with the updates at Amma.org .

>

> I want to repeat here a wonderful conversation some of my friends and I

>had with Amma on the night of June 20th here in San Ramon. I had just been

>telling some friends about how nice it would be if I could just walk up to

>Amma and

>talk to Her from the side ... well that night She answered my prayer- I went

>up to Her on the side to ask a personal question- then sat there and with a

>few friends next to me had a conversation with Her for the next couple of

>hours

>that has filled me up with all the answers that I perhaps ever need.

>

> Here is what happened.

>

> As i was sitting next to Amma, the conversation somehow went to the topic

>of householder devotees. As many of you know, Amma usually jokes about

>married

>life being like a bullock cart- one of the spouses is the bull that draws the

>cart, the other spouse is the cart and the children are the luggage the cart

>carries.

>

> Amma sometimes jokingly asks poeple to get married and says ' Mattu

>vandi ottura'-"Go drive the bullock cart".

>

> She had just joked like that with someone- and someone asked Her

> "Amma, if

>the spouses are the bull and the cart respectively, WHO IS THE DRIVER?"

>

> Amma replied " LIFE!"

>

> Amma then said "Life is the driver. Life will give you blows and teach

>you how to pull the cart!"

>

> At which point I asked : "Amma if YOU drive the cart then there is no

>problem isnt it?"

>

> Amma replied " YES. BUT NO ONE WANTS TO GIVE ME THE ROPE TO CONTROL THE

>CART. THEY RUN AWAY BEFORE I CAN TIE THE ROPE ON THEM".

>

> She was refering to the rope that the bull is tied with- in India you will

>see the bullock carts with the rope tied through the bull's nose.

>

> Amma said "They run away before I can tie the rope"- meaning very few

>surrender to Her and allow Her to drive the cart .

>

> So I asked Her " Amma how does surrender( saranagati) happen?".

>

> Amma replied "When you are hungry You will eat"-( I took it to mean that

>when you are hungry for God, surrender will happen).

>

> Amma then added "When you are hungry you will eat.... Saranagati- .....

>that is very difficult".

>

>

> My friend Ullas asked Her "Amma if husband and wife are both spiritual

>minded, then isnt spiritual life possible after marriage?"

>

> Amma replied " Valara nalladu- thats very nice. if both of them are

>spiritual minded then thats a very happy circumstance- very good . But they

>shouldnt increase their attachments. - If they start having children and

>distract

>themselves with attachments, then that may lead to problems". Amma probably

>referred to the fact that there are many householder disciples of Hers who

>pratice

>celibacy and lead spiritual lives or pratice celibacy after having their

>first

>child .

>

> At this point in the conversation, Nandu walked in and the topic

> changed to

>Vedanta.

>

> Amma saw Nandu and said "Oh the vedantin has walked in" - and then asked

>him "What is vedanta?"

>

> " Amma doesnt know any vedanta.. People merely read books and preach

>vedanta without pratcising ".

>

> I said "Amma- you see the Yourself in all beings and hug them all- isnt

>this vedanta- what you do is vedanta in practice".

>

> Amma ignored that comment and spoke again :

>

> "Some people read books and they dont practice anything- they mere

>mouth'vedanta'. They say 'I am not the body' but their mouth waters if

>they see a

>delicious dish - they merely read books, dont do sadhana, lose their tempers

>all the time, dont cultivate virtues, ... and call themselves vedantins'.

>

> ( I was wondering if She was referring to me! )

>

> Amma continued" Even Ramana Maharishi , who is accepted as a great

>vedantin talked about puja and japa- in his work the Upadesa Saram ,

>Ramana says

>first the aspirant starts with puja, then japa, then tapas- then only when

>the

>mind is in 'leenasthithi'- in an absorbed state does the time come for Self

>enquiry'.

>

> 'People read vedanta, and decry bhakti- but they walk around Arunacahala

>like Sri Ramana did- isnt that bhakti- seeing God in a stone?"

>

> " In the olden days the Guru used to make the students stusy the shastras

>for 20 years. Only after 20 years of study, to a few selected worthy

>disciples

>the Guru used to give the Brahma Sutras- ( vedantic text on brahman). But

>nowadays people just buy a copy of the brahma Sutras and read them and dont

>practice anything".

>

> Amma then gave a few startling comments on Her own role- " In Ramana

>Maharishi's case a few advanced disciples came to Him and asked him spiritual

>questions. So he talked vedanta to them. In Amma's case thousands come-

>and they ask

>Me all sorts of questions-what job to take, should i buy a house, can i get a

>girlfriend etc etc- how can I talk vedanta to them?- all kinds of people come

>to Amma- doctors, lawyers, engineers, clerks-prostitutes, theives ...... Can

>Amma start talking vedanta to all of them? Amma has to come to their level

>and talk to them".

>

> Amma again said " I have descended into the market place".( the crowd

>laughed ). "I am not selling diamonds now- i have to start selling trivial

>things,

>then give people the diamonds when they are ready for it".

>

> Then Amma drew a great comparison - "Krishna was also like this- He had to

>talk to everyone about their dharma- to the student, to the teacher, to the

>sioldier etc.. He too had to deal with the masses".

>

> I felt this was a great comparision and just then the conversation

>literally took off :

>

> Nandu asked Amma:" Amma, some people say that realizing God is greater

> than

>Realizing Brahman. Is this true?"

>

> Amma said" No they are the same- but one can have a vision of God- Iswara

>Darsan but still not give up the ego and be fully realized- like Namdev".

>

> ( Amma was referring to the saint Namdev who used to visions of Sri

> Krishna

>but still did not give up his ego- he bcame fully realized only after that).

>

> At this point, by sheer grace , I was inspired to ask what i think is THE

>question of my life:

>

> " AMMA, YOU TALK ABOUT PEOPLE WHO GET A VISION OF GOD- ISWARA DARSHAN-

>AMMA, WE ARE SEEING YOU NOW IN FRONT OF US- WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN

>SEEING YOU AND HAVING A VISION OF GOD?"

>

>

> AMMA looked at me and very simply and spontaneously replied :

>

> "That depends upon your Manobhava- attitude . ..... Arjuna saw Krishna

>only as a friend- but later on when he realized the truth, he saw Krishna as

>God".

>

> We were all stunned by the answer. I was blown away by the utter

>simplicity of the reply- The comparision again between Krishna and

>Herself- and the

>reference to Arjuna's point of view.

>

> Pressing the point, I asked another question:

>

> "Amma, then how how does one develop the attitude to see you as God?".

>

> Amma replied " GET LOST!" ( in tamil She said 'Nee Poda ".) "Amma doesnt

>want anyone to see Her as God. On the contrary Amma wants to see all of you

>as God and worship you as such. Today people will call me God- tomorow they

>will call me something else. Amma knows who has real faith and who is giving

>mere lip service-when Amma tests them, then the truth will come out -if they

>really feel what they say. Amma is not interested in anyone calling Her God".

>

>

> The conversation ended there - frankly i was too stunned by that reply of

>Hers. Basically She was saying that like Arjuna saw Krishna as a friend

>first

>we are seeing Her as a normal person. But when he realized the truth He saw

>who Krishna really was. Similarly , depending upon our manobhava, Amma is

>either a simple lady from India- or if we realize the truth- we will

>see who She

>really is - God.

>

>

> Jai Ma

>

> bala >>

>

>

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