Guest guest Posted July 13, 2003 Report Share Posted July 13, 2003 My humble prostrations to my beloved Amma and to all Her children at this site. I appreciate the postings about Guru Poornima, they enriched this special day for me. Yesterday two lovely young men came to my door. From their name tags I saw that they were Mormon missionaries. To save them time, I greeted them, said that I appreciated their visit, but that I was very comfortable in my faith, and was not interested in conversion. They asked me what church I attended, and I stumbled and said, "None, I am a Hindu." They looked aghast, and with my best wishes they went on their way. After this visit I thought about my response. I had never called myself a Hindu before, and wondered if this was acceptable. Can a person born in the west to Christian parents be a Hindu? Is one who has been blessed to be found by a Sat Guru, who sees the Divine as Mother, who performs pujas, meditates, does mantra japa, sings Bhajans, makes pilgrimages to India, and holds the teachings of Sanatana Dharma as most dear a Hindu? Or should I have told them that I was a devotee of the Divine Mother? That I practiced bhakti yoga? That I believe in eastern philosophy? I realize that it is the ego that seeks to label, to catagorize, but I would appreciate feedback on this subject. Jai Ma! Omana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2003 Report Share Posted July 13, 2003 > > Yesterday two lovely young men came to my door. From > their name tags > I saw that they were Mormon missionaries. To save > them time, I > greeted them, said that I appreciated their visit, > but that I was > very comfortable in my faith, and was not interested > in conversion. > They asked me what church I attended, and I stumbled > and said, "None, > I am a Hindu." They looked aghast, and with my best > wishes they went > on their way. I often see these Mormon missionaries in Toronto, on buses and subways or walking the streets. Very easy to spot, as they're extremely clean-cut - like they just stepped out of Leave it to Beaver - and wear name tags that say "Elder _______. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" As soon as I see one, I get out sight in a hurry to avoid being accosted. I also never answer my doorbell, unless someone has phoned first and I am expecting company. Il y a trop de weirdos. > > After this visit I thought about my response. I had > never called > myself a Hindu before, and wondered if this was > acceptable. Can a > person born in the west to Christian parents be a > Hindu? Is one who > has been blessed to be found by a Sat Guru, who sees > the Divine as > Mother, who performs pujas, meditates, does mantra > japa, sings > Bhajans, makes pilgrimages to India, and holds the > teachings of > Sanatana Dharma as most dear a Hindu? Or should I > have told them > that I was a devotee of the Divine Mother? That I > practiced bhakti > yoga? That I believe in eastern philosophy? > I would identify myself as a Hindu, for the same reasons as you. Just substitute Jewish for Christian parents. More particularly, I would identify as a Vaishnav (having received a Krishna mantra) and as a Shakta (Divine Mother devotee, not necessarily to the person of Mata Amritanandamayi, whom I consider more of a mother than a guru). I don't believe a formal conversion process is necessary, although some branches of Hinduism do accept converts in this way, such as the Shaivite lineage of Hinduism Today's late Satguru Sivaya Subramaniyaswami (himself an American-born Hindu). As they say in Hindi, GARVA SE KAHO HAM HINDU HAI!! (say with pride "I am a Hindu") Keval P.S...Guru Purnima at Amritapuri: http://www.amritapuri.org/latest/july/gurupurnima.htm (new page uploaded today!) SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2003 Report Share Posted July 13, 2003 Ammachi, "omanacrane" <eveningstar8@h...> wrote: > My humble prostrations to my beloved Amma and to all Her children at > this site. I appreciate the postings about Guru Poornima, they > enriched this special day for me. > > Yesterday two lovely young men came to my door. From their name tags > I saw that they were Mormon missionaries. To save them time, I > greeted them, said that I appreciated their visit, but that I was > very comfortable in my faith, and was not interested in conversion. > They asked me what church I attended, and I stumbled and said, "None, > I am a Hindu." They looked aghast, and with my best wishes they went > on their way. > > After this visit I thought about my response. I had never called > myself a Hindu before, and wondered if this was acceptable. Can a > person born in the west to Christian parents be a Hindu? Is one who > has been blessed to be found by a Sat Guru, who sees the Divine as > Mother, who performs pujas, meditates, does mantra japa, sings > Bhajans, makes pilgrimages to India, and holds the teachings of > Sanatana Dharma as most dear a Hindu? Or should I have told them > that I was a devotee of the Divine Mother? That I practiced bhakti > yoga? That I believe in eastern philosophy? > > I realize that it is the ego that seeks to label, to catagorize, but > I would appreciate feedback on this subject. > Jai Ma! > Omana Dear devotee in Ammachi, Being a Hindu has nothing to with ethnicity or origin. The essence of Sanatana Dharma is that, one is not the body one identifies with but Atman and one should realise this. Detachment is what matters, wether you are born into Hindu family or not. Om Namah shivaya, Avinash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 dear blessed brobther/sister om namah shivayah! there are so many defenitions for a hindu. those who believe in ahimsa (non-violence) is a hindu. you do not have to visit india or the temples in india to be a good hindu. he believes that the whole world is his family (vasudhaiva kudumbakam) and believes in the well being of all living things(loka samastha sukhino bhavanthu-meaning all living things in this universe be hail healthy and happy.) hindu believes in good karma and you can reach salvation through karma (good deeds and you duty). the promised land and thousands of houris for killing a believer of another religion is not a hindu idea for salvation. what hindu is seeking is not salvation, but moksha which is freedom from the repeated births and life and its agonies. you do not need to go to a temple though scientifically it has been proved very vitalising for both your soul and body as your chakras get balanced, charged and aura rejeuvenated. you can sit down pray and meditate at home because god is omnipotent and omnipresent. anne besant said that the whole world is a hindu. also there is another quote i would like to write here. mathru devo bhava, pitr devo bhava, adithi devo bhavo-meaning treatyour mother, father and the guest coming to your house as god. this is perhaps one principle that holds the hindu families together and the sanatana dharma to exist in this earth for ages. om namah shivayah. unni --- omanacrane <eveningstar8 wrote: > My humble prostrations to my beloved Amma and to all > Her children at > this site. I appreciate the postings about Guru > Poornima, they > enriched this special day for me. > > Yesterday two lovely young men came to my door. From > their name tags > I saw that they were Mormon missionaries. To save > them time, I > greeted them, said that I appreciated their visit, > but that I was > very comfortable in my faith, and was not interested > in conversion. > They asked me what church I attended, and I stumbled > and said, "None, > I am a Hindu." They looked aghast, and with my best > wishes they went > on their way. > > After this visit I thought about my response. I had > never called > myself a Hindu before, and wondered if this was > acceptable. Can a > person born in the west to Christian parents be a > Hindu? Is one who > has been blessed to be found by a Sat Guru, who sees > the Divine as > Mother, who performs pujas, meditates, does mantra > japa, sings > Bhajans, makes pilgrimages to India, and holds the > teachings of > Sanatana Dharma as most dear a Hindu? Or should I > have told them > that I was a devotee of the Divine Mother? That I > practiced bhakti > yoga? That I believe in eastern philosophy? > > I realize that it is the ego that seeks to label, to > catagorize, but > I would appreciate feedback on this subject. > Jai Ma! > Omana > > > SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 You ask whether a Westerner can identify him/herself as a Hindu because s/he does certain practices and is a follower of Amma. I have struggled with this question in the years when I tried to be the "good devotee". I don't think it is really possible. I also ask - why would a non-Indian want to identify himself as Hindu? Isn't it just part of the play acting that goes on around Amma, the desire to be part of the group, etc., all the stuff that has turned it into a cult? I love Amma dearly but follow a different spiritual practice. I have become so turned off by the pseudo- Hindu stuff that goes on around Amma that I could not bring myself to go see her this year - and I'm fine with that decision. I did a long meditation retreat instead and it was just what I needed. (Actually had a deep experience of Amma there, so I know I had her blessings). Don't you wonder why, after all these years, there are still about the same number of people who come to see Amma? It is because Westerners hear the words 'Hindu guru' and are immediately repelled because of all the negative associations that brings, then they see Westerners dressed in saris and dhotis and, worse yet, see them behave so strangely and inappropiriately in public - so they don't come back. Let Hinduism be for the Indians. Westerners should remain true to their own culture and need not get swept up into the exoticism of the East. All that is just another trip, another false identity. After all, Amma is true, is she not? and she hasn't come to the West to establish a religion, has she?. I think these comments may rattle a few cages, but this is a forum. Susheelan Ammachi, "avinash7_99" < avinash7_99> wrote: > Ammachi, "omanacrane" < eveningstar8@h...> > wrote: > > My humble prostrations to my beloved Amma and to all Her children > at > > this site. I appreciate the postings about Guru Poornima, they > > enriched this special day for me. > > > > Yesterday two lovely young men came to my door. From their name > tags > > I saw that they were Mormon missionaries. To save them time, I > > greeted them, said that I appreciated their visit, but that I was > > very comfortable in my faith, and was not interested in conversion. > > They asked me what church I attended, and I stumbled and > said, "None, > > I am a Hindu." They looked aghast, and with my best wishes they > went > > on their way. > > > > After this visit I thought about my response. I had never called > > myself a Hindu before, and wondered if this was acceptable. Can a > > person born in the west to Christian parents be a Hindu? Is one who > > has been blessed to be found by a Sat Guru, who sees the Divine as > > Mother, who performs pujas, meditates, does mantra japa, sings > > Bhajans, makes pilgrimages to India, and holds the teachings of > > Sanatana Dharma as most dear a Hindu? Or should I have told them > > that I was a devotee of the Divine Mother? That I practiced bhakti > > yoga? That I believe in eastern philosophy? > > > > I realize that it is the ego that seeks to label, to catagorize, > but > > I would appreciate feedback on this subject. > > Jai Ma! > > Omana > > Dear devotee in Ammachi, > Being a Hindu has nothing to with ethnicity or origin. The essence of > Sanatana Dharma is that, one is not the body one identifies with but > Atman and one should realise this. Detachment is what matters, wether > you are born into Hindu family or not. > > Om Namah shivaya, > Avinash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 > after all these > years, there are still about the same number of > people who > come to see Amma? Really? The number of devotees has been growing exponentially since her first U.S. tour back in 1987 or '88, n'est-ce pas? I would like to go back to the small gatherings Amma used to have some 15 years ago. It is because Westerners hear the > words > 'Hindu guru' The media is partially to blame for this. I can't think how many times I have read an article about Amma's tour in a mainstream mass-circulation newspaper that refers to Amma as a "guru" or "Hindu spiritual leader". The articles often perpetuate the cult stereotype with sometimes irrelevant references to "exotic Indian music" or even Amma's oversize nose ring. > Let Hinduism be for the Indians. Westerners > should > remain true to their own culture and need not get > swept up into > the exoticism of the East. In that case, for Amma's U.S. programs why don't we keep our shoes on and sit on pews. Instead of Hershey's kisses we can receive communion wafers or Kiddush wine. And instead of bhajans, we can sing "Rock of Ages" or "Sh'ma Yisrael". IMHO, a lot of devotees are drawn to eastern spirituality because their own western Judeo-Christian culture is spiritually void or they have had bad experiences with Christianity or Judaism while growing up. (myself, I got so sick of the Holocaust guilt trip, I became convinced that God died in a gas chamber in 1943) If you'll excuse me, I've gotta go and wash my kurta and dhoti. Keval SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 Susheelan -- you have a Hindu-sounding name. Are YOU a "Westerner" or a Hindu? Long before I met Amma, I was fascinated by Hindu culture. In 1980, when I moved to Flushing, I discovered The Ganesh Temple on Bowne Street. I entered, took off my shoes, and walked directly to the main shrine of Ganesha. I lost consciousness for 15 minutes (yet remained standing), and awoke with my face wet with tears, filled with the unerring feeling that I had "come home." I think different people get different things from Amma. She is "ecumenical," and gives her blessing to everyone, regardless of their spiritual practice. Personally, I am convinced of my own various reincarnations, and I feel I have been Hindu in a past life. K. N. Rao, a distinguished Vedic astrologer, read my horoscope some years ago. He pointed out that Rahu (the Moon's North Node) was conjunct my Jupiter, and this would indicate an obsession with a culture outside the one I was born in. It's a possibility... :-) -- Len/ Kalipadma On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 01:26:02 -0000 "susheelanji" <susheelanji writes: > You ask whether a Westerner can identify him/herself as a > Hindu because s/he does certain practices and is a follower of > Amma. I have struggled with this question in the years when I > tried to be the "good devotee". I don't think it is really possible. > I > also ask - why would a non-Indian want to identify himself as > Hindu? Isn't it just part of the play acting that goes on around > Amma, the desire to be part of the group, etc., all the stuff that > has turned it into a cult? I love Amma dearly but follow a different > > spiritual practice. I have become so turned off by the pseudo- > Hindu stuff that goes on around Amma that I could not bring > myself to go see her this year - and I'm fine with that decision. I > did a long meditation retreat instead and it was just what I > needed. (Actually had a deep experience of Amma there, so I > know I had her blessings). Don't you wonder why, after all these > years, there are still about the same number of people who > come to see Amma? It is because Westerners hear the words > 'Hindu guru' and are immediately repelled because of all the > negative associations that brings, then they see Westerners > dressed in saris and dhotis and, worse yet, see them behave so > strangely and inappropiriately in public - so they don't come > back. Let Hinduism be for the Indians. Westerners should > remain true to their own culture and need not get swept up into > the exoticism of the East. All that is just another trip, another > false identity. After all, Amma is true, is she not? and she hasn't > come to the West to establish a religion, has she?. I think these > comments may rattle a few cages, but this is a forum. > > Susheelan > ______________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 01:26:02 -0000, susheelanji <susheelanji wrote: > You ask whether a Westerner can identify him/herself as a Hindu because > s/he does certain practices and is a follower of Amma. I have struggled > with this question in the years when I tried to be the "good devotee". I > don't think it is really possible. Perhaps it is not your path; it certainly seems to appeal to many others. > I also ask - why would a non-Indian want to identify himself as Hindu? If the non-Indian adopts the religion of India, that person is Hindu in religion. Hindu is a term coined by the West to refer to the things of India, esp. religion and language. It's just "Indi-" with an "H". Hindi, Hindu. > Isn't it just part of the play acting that goes on around Amma, the > desire to be part of the group, etc., all the stuff that has turned it > into a cult? I love Amma dearly but follow a different spiritual > practice. I have become so turned off by the pseudo- > Hindu stuff that goes on around Amma Quite a value judgment there, Susheelan! Who says it's a cult? And why "pseudo"? A large percentage of the people who go to see Amma are Indian. As for the rest, well, motivations vary. > Don't you wonder why, after all these years, there are still about the > same number of people who come to see Amma? I've observed the exact opposite. When I first saw Her in the late '80s it was in a small hall which was only 1/3 filled. 200 people, at best. Now there are thousands. > It is because Westerners hear the words 'Hindu guru' and are immediately > repelled because of all the negative associations that brings, then they > see Westerners dressed in saris and dhotis and, worse yet, see them > behave so strangely and inappropiriately in public - so they don't come > back. People who come to Amma tend to have already been through some sorting; if they couldn't take the more exotic aspects they wouldn't be there in the first place. Anyway, people who have fallen in love do tend to behave strangely and inappropriately. Who can control that? Would you really want to? People have to work it out for themselves. > Let Hinduism be for the Indians. Westerners should remain true to their > own culture and need not get swept up into the exoticism of the East. In many cases that's exactly what they want and need to do. Western culture with it's Jesus-only exclusivism, patriarchalism, triumphalism, and aggression, has left them cold. Amma is the least Westernized teacher I know of . Her visit is a travelling South Indian village, with it's warm hospitality, hot music, and devotional fervor. That's part of what many of us find so appealing. > All that is just another trip, another false identity. It's Divine play. Lighten up! Ramlal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 Om Amriteswaryai Namaha! Wow! That was a really thought-provoking response, Shusheelanji! Thouroghly rattled my cage, which I am grateful for because it sent me into a deep loving rememberance of why I am a Hindu. My Dad went to India for some time during my childhood, as a devotee of Sathya Sai Baba. When he came home, my grandparents and I went to his bhajans and satsang group every week. I was deeply interested in Hindu philosophy, and totally absorbed and believed everything I learned. Let me impart that I am very much an American, and very pale-skinned, as well. I considered myself to be Hindu when I was six. I went to a school with lots of other white American children who were almost all Christian or Jewish. I chose not to participate in Christmas or Easter celebrations at school, not because Hinduism told me not to, but because I simply did not identify with the spiritual significance of those holy days. I remember that there was one boy in my class who was a Buddhist. He, like me, also had red hair and freckles. People always asked us what church we went to, or what kind of Christian we were. Some informed us that their parents had told them that my friend and I would burn in hell. Once a teacher asked me why I would chose to follow a religion that didn't identify with my own culture! I searched for so long for my guru, and as Amma swept into my life, I began to sense that She has been here all along. I believe that She guided me to this path long before I met Her in the flesh. I know what you mean about the scene around Amma seeming like part of the trip. In a way it is. Some of the people are undoubtedly there for that, to be part of a scene. But that does in no way negate the benefit that yhey recieve from being in the Divine Mother's presense. You have a choice. You can focus on how many people are there for the "wrong reasons," or you can enjoy Her infinite bliss and compassion. Not to knock you for not going to see Her, I'm glad you followed your heart, and it sounds like you had a beautiful experience at the retreat. Let God do her own work. It's not our job to judge how others are walking the spiritual path. Be glad that they are! As for myself, I may be the white girl in a Sari, but I am every bit a disciple of Ammachi, a composer of bhajans, a practitioner and teacher of Yoga, a vegetarian, a bhakti yogini, and most definately, a Hindu. Lokah Samasta Sukhino Bhavantu.... Brianna --- susheelanji <susheelanji wrote: > You ask whether a Westerner can identify him/herself > as a > Hindu because s/he does certain practices and is a > follower of > Amma. I have struggled with this question in the > years when I > tried to be the "good devotee". I don't think it is > really possible. > I > also ask - why would a non-Indian want to identify > himself as > Hindu? Isn't it just part of the play acting that > goes on around > Amma, the desire to be part of the group, etc., all > the stuff that > has turned it into a cult? I love Amma dearly but > follow a different > spiritual practice. I have become so turned off by > the pseudo- > Hindu stuff that goes on around Amma that I could > not bring > myself to go see her this year - and I'm fine with > that decision. I > did a long meditation retreat instead and it was > just what I > needed. (Actually had a deep experience of Amma > there, so I > know I had her blessings). Don't you wonder why, > after all these > years, there are still about the same number of > people who > come to see Amma? It is because Westerners hear the > words > 'Hindu guru' and are immediately repelled because of > all the > negative associations that brings, then they see > Westerners > dressed in saris and dhotis and, worse yet, see them > behave so > strangely and inappropiriately in public - so they > don't come > back. Let Hinduism be for the Indians. Westerners > should > remain true to their own culture and need not get > swept up into > the exoticism of the East. All that is just another > trip, another > false identity. After all, Amma is true, is she not? > and she hasn't > come to the West to establish a religion, has she?. > I think these > comments may rattle a few cages, but this is a > forum. > > Susheelan > > Ammachi, "avinash7_99" < > avinash7_99> wrote: > > Ammachi, "omanacrane" < > eveningstar8@h...> > > wrote: > > > My humble prostrations to my beloved Amma and to > all Her > children > > at > > > this site. I appreciate the postings about Guru > Poornima, > they > > > enriched this special day for me. > > > > > > Yesterday two lovely young men came to my door. > From their > name > > tags > > > I saw that they were Mormon missionaries. To > save them > time, I > > > greeted them, said that I appreciated their > visit, but that I was > > > very comfortable in my faith, and was not > interested in > conversion. > > > They asked me what church I attended, and I > stumbled and > > said, "None, > > > I am a Hindu." They looked aghast, and with my > best wishes > they > > went > > > on their way. > > > > > > After this visit I thought about my response. I > had never called > > > myself a Hindu before, and wondered if this was > acceptable. > Can a > > > person born in the west to Christian parents be > a Hindu? Is > one who > > > has been blessed to be found by a Sat Guru, who > sees the > Divine as > > > Mother, who performs pujas, meditates, does > mantra japa, > sings > > > Bhajans, makes pilgrimages to India, and holds > the > teachings of > > > Sanatana Dharma as most dear a Hindu? Or should > I have > told them > > > that I was a devotee of the Divine Mother? That > I practiced > bhakti > > > yoga? That I believe in eastern philosophy? > > > > > > I realize that it is the ego that seeks to > label, to catagorize, > > but > > > I would appreciate feedback on this subject. > > > Jai Ma! > > > Omana > > > > Dear devotee in Ammachi, > > Being a Hindu has nothing to with ethnicity or > origin. The > essence of > > Sanatana Dharma is that, one is not the body one > identifies > with but > > Atman and one should realise this. Detachment is > what > matters, wether > > you are born into Hindu family or not. > > > > Om Namah shivaya, > > Avinash. > > SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 om amriteshwaryai namah. everybody has the need to belong but why don't just focus on spiritual practice? or does that happen only when there's an outer label? shouldn't the real change come from within? I AM THIS. NOT THAT. (AND I DON'T LIKE YOUR DHOTI EITHER) is that what people understand of detaching themselves and identifying with their atman? are we there yet? that's why i go to the programs to enjoy amma's divine presence and not the presence of the freaks. well - of course - i am a freak myself. a freak is a freak is a freak is a freak = freakscene. and every freak is free to enjoy mothers presence wherever on the planet. the divine mother is everywhere but i am not . . . lokah samastah sukhino bhavantu. in amma -c SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 I was talking to a friend last night about this discussion thread and I brought up the suggestion put forth that "Westerners should remain true to their own culture", and I thought... "WHICH ONE???" Should I be more American? (I am, by the way, down to shorts and a tee shirt every day) Should I be more Mexican? (I'm very much that, too. I have five names to prove it!) Should I be more indigenous, Cherokee or Yaqui like some of my great- grandparents? Should I be Spanish like my other ancestors? Should I be Catholic? ~~~ Maybe I should be an Atheist - both my parents were... That's the culture I was brought up in, anyway. ~~~ Ammachi, "susheelanji" <susheelanji@n...> wrote: > You ask whether a Westerner can identify him/herself as a > Hindu because s/he does certain practices and is a follower of > Amma. I have struggled with this question in the years when I > tried to be the "good devotee". I don't think it is really possible. > I > also ask - why would a non-Indian want to identify himself as > Hindu? Isn't it just part of the play acting that goes on around > Amma, the desire to be part of the group, etc., all the stuff that > has turned it into a cult? I love Amma dearly but follow a different > spiritual practice. I have become so turned off by the pseudo- > Hindu stuff that goes on around Amma that I could not bring > myself to go see her this year - and I'm fine with that decision. I > did a long meditation retreat instead and it was just what I > needed. (Actually had a deep experience of Amma there, so I > know I had her blessings). Don't you wonder why, after all these > years, there are still about the same number of people who > come to see Amma? It is because Westerners hear the words > 'Hindu guru' and are immediately repelled because of all the > negative associations that brings, then they see Westerners > dressed in saris and dhotis and, worse yet, see them behave so > strangely and inappropiriately in public - so they don't come > back. Let Hinduism be for the Indians. Westerners should > remain true to their own culture and need not get swept up into > the exoticism of the East. All that is just another trip, another > false identity. After all, Amma is true, is she not? and she hasn't > come to the West to establish a religion, has she?. I think these > comments may rattle a few cages, but this is a forum. > > Susheelan > > Ammachi, "avinash7_99" < > avinash7_99> wrote: > > Ammachi, "omanacrane" < > eveningstar8@h...> > > wrote: > > > My humble prostrations to my beloved Amma and to all Her > children > > at > > > this site. I appreciate the postings about Guru Poornima, > they > > > enriched this special day for me. > > > > > > Yesterday two lovely young men came to my door. From their > name > > tags > > > I saw that they were Mormon missionaries. To save them > time, I > > > greeted them, said that I appreciated their visit, but that I was > > > very comfortable in my faith, and was not interested in > conversion. > > > They asked me what church I attended, and I stumbled and > > said, "None, > > > I am a Hindu." They looked aghast, and with my best wishes > they > > went > > > on their way. > > > > > > After this visit I thought about my response. I had never called > > > myself a Hindu before, and wondered if this was acceptable. > Can a > > > person born in the west to Christian parents be a Hindu? Is > one who > > > has been blessed to be found by a Sat Guru, who sees the > Divine as > > > Mother, who performs pujas, meditates, does mantra japa, > sings > > > Bhajans, makes pilgrimages to India, and holds the > teachings of > > > Sanatana Dharma as most dear a Hindu? Or should I have > told them > > > that I was a devotee of the Divine Mother? That I practiced > bhakti > > > yoga? That I believe in eastern philosophy? > > > > > > I realize that it is the ego that seeks to label, to catagorize, > > but > > > I would appreciate feedback on this subject. > > > Jai Ma! > > > Omana > > > > Dear devotee in Ammachi, > > Being a Hindu has nothing to with ethnicity or origin. The > essence of > > Sanatana Dharma is that, one is not the body one identifies > with but > > Atman and one should realise this. Detachment is what > matters, wether > > you are born into Hindu family or not. > > > > Om Namah shivaya, > > Avinash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 Susheelan, are you from KC? Jai Ma! --Jami Aravind --- susheelanji <susheelanji wrote: > You ask whether a Westerner can identify him/herself > as a > Hindu because s/he does certain practices and is a > follower of > Amma. I have struggled with this question in the > years when I > tried to be the "good devotee". I don't think it is > really possible. > I > also ask - why would a non-Indian want to identify > himself as > Hindu? Isn't it just part of the play acting that > goes on around > Amma, the desire to be part of the group, etc., all > the stuff that > has turned it into a cult? I love Amma dearly but > follow a different > spiritual practice. I have become so turned off by > the pseudo- > Hindu stuff that goes on around Amma that I could > not bring > myself to go see her this year - and I'm fine with > that decision. I > did a long meditation retreat instead and it was > just what I > needed. (Actually had a deep experience of Amma > there, so I > know I had her blessings). Don't you wonder why, > after all these > years, there are still about the same number of > people who > come to see Amma? It is because Westerners hear the > words > 'Hindu guru' and are immediately repelled because of > all the > negative associations that brings, then they see > Westerners > dressed in saris and dhotis and, worse yet, see them > behave so > strangely and inappropiriately in public - so they > don't come > back. Let Hinduism be for the Indians. Westerners > should > remain true to their own culture and need not get > swept up into > the exoticism of the East. All that is just another > trip, another > false identity. After all, Amma is true, is she not? > and she hasn't > come to the West to establish a religion, has she?. > I think these > comments may rattle a few cages, but this is a > forum. > > Susheelan > > Ammachi, "avinash7_99" < > avinash7_99> wrote: > > Ammachi, "omanacrane" < > eveningstar8@h...> > > wrote: > > > My humble prostrations to my beloved Amma and to > all Her > children > > at > > > this site. I appreciate the postings about Guru > Poornima, > they > > > enriched this special day for me. > > > > > > Yesterday two lovely young men came to my door. > From their > name > > tags > > > I saw that they were Mormon missionaries. To > save them > time, I > > > greeted them, said that I appreciated their > visit, but that I was > > > very comfortable in my faith, and was not > interested in > conversion. > > > They asked me what church I attended, and I > stumbled and > > said, "None, > > > I am a Hindu." They looked aghast, and with my > best wishes > they > > went > > > on their way. > > > > > > After this visit I thought about my response. I > had never called > > > myself a Hindu before, and wondered if this was > acceptable. > Can a > > > person born in the west to Christian parents be > a Hindu? Is > one who > > > has been blessed to be found by a Sat Guru, who > sees the > Divine as > > > Mother, who performs pujas, meditates, does > mantra japa, > sings > > > Bhajans, makes pilgrimages to India, and holds > the > teachings of > > > Sanatana Dharma as most dear a Hindu? Or should > I have > told them > > > that I was a devotee of the Divine Mother? That > I practiced > bhakti > > > yoga? That I believe in eastern philosophy? > > > > > > I realize that it is the ego that seeks to > label, to catagorize, > > but > > > I would appreciate feedback on this subject. > > > Jai Ma! > > > Omana > > > > Dear devotee in Ammachi, > > Being a Hindu has nothing to with ethnicity or > origin. The > essence of > > Sanatana Dharma is that, one is not the body one > identifies > with but > > Atman and one should realise this. Detachment is > what > matters, wether > > you are born into Hindu family or not. > > > > Om Namah shivaya, > > Avinash. > > SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 01:26:02 -0000, susheelanji <susheelanji wrote: > You ask whether a Westerner can identify him/herself as a Hindu because > s/he does certain practices and is a follower of Amma. I have struggled > with this question in the years when I tried to be the "good devotee". I > don't think it is really possible. Perhaps it is not your path; it certainly seems to appeal to many others. > I also ask - why would a non-Indian want to identify himself as Hindu? If the non-Indian adopts the religion of India, that person is Hindu in religion. Hindu is a term coined by the West to refer to the things of India, esp. religion and language. It's just "Indi-" with an "H". Hindi, Hindu. > Isn't it just part of the play acting that goes on around Amma, the > desire to be part of the group, etc., all the stuff that has turned it > into a cult? I love Amma dearly but follow a different spiritual > practice. I have become so turned off by the pseudo- > Hindu stuff that goes on around Amma Quite a value judgment there, Susheelan! Who says it's a cult? And why "pseudo"? A large percentage of the people who go to see Amma are Indian. As for the rest, well, motivations vary. > Don't you wonder why, after all these years, there are still about the > same number of people who come to see Amma? I've observed the exact opposite. When I first saw Her in the late '80s it was in a small hall which was only 1/3 filled. 200 people, at best. Now there are thousands. > It is because Westerners hear the words 'Hindu guru' and are immediately > repelled because of all the negative associations that brings, then they > see Westerners dressed in saris and dhotis and, worse yet, see them > behave so strangely and inappropiriately in public - so they don't come > back. People who come to Amma tend to have already been through some sorting; if they couldn't take the more exotic aspects they wouldn't be there in the first place. Anyway, people who have fallen in love do tend to behave strangely and inappropriately. Who can control that? Would you really want to? People have to work it out for themselves. > Let Hinduism be for the Indians. Westerners should remain true to their > own culture and need not get swept up into the exoticism of the East. In many cases that's exactly what they want and need to do. Western culture with it's Jesus-only exclusivism, patriarchalism, triumphalism, and aggression, has left them cold. Amma is the least Westernized teacher I know of . Her visit is a travelling South Indian village, with it's warm hospitality, hot music, and devotional fervor. That's part of what many of us find so appealing. > All that is just another trip, another false identity. It's Divine play. Lighten up! Ramlal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 American surfer-dude Michael Riggs went to India in the late 1960's, studied with Guru Neem Karoli Baba, who re-named him Bhagavan Das, and became famous when Ram Dass (born Richard Alpert) wrote about him in his best-selling book, "Be Here Now." Bhagvan Das often travels with Ammachi these days. A friend of mine attended a teaching by Bhagavan Das recently, and BD said that Westerners should not "change their religion" when exposed to Hindu thought. "I still worship Jesus," explained Bhagavan Das, showing a cross dangling from the guru bead of his <mala> (Hindu meditation rosary). "It's just that my image of Jesus has come more and more to resemble Shiva." -- Len/ Kalipadma On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:23:37 -0000 "MSoliz" <msoliz2000 writes: > I was talking to a friend last night about this discussion thread and > > I brought up the suggestion put forth that "Westerners should remain > > true to their own culture", and I thought... "WHICH ONE???" > > Should I be more American? (I am, by the way, down to shorts and a > tee shirt every day) > Should I be more Mexican? (I'm very much that, too. I have five > names > to prove it!) > Should I be more indigenous, Cherokee or Yaqui like some of my > great- > grandparents? > Should I be Spanish like my other ancestors? > Should I be Catholic? > > ~~~ > > Maybe I should be an Atheist - both my parents were... > That's the culture I was brought up in, anyway. > ______________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 > Let Hinduism be for the Indians. I disagree... Let Hinduism be for anyone who wants it. Why let the behavior of a few Westerners taint how we see all Western Hindus? I don't let a few rattlesnake wrestlers in the Southern U.S. taint how I see all Christians. If their behavior seems inappropriate, shouldn't we try to understand why it bothers us? Does it stir negative feelings within us? Are we unable to feel compassion for them for some reason? If following Hindu tenets brings one closer to God, then shouldn't they follow their heart? > why would a non-Indian want to identify himself as > Hindu? Hinduism is not a race or ethnicity, but a belief system. Practices don't make a religion, but faith does, and regardless of our exterior ethnic identity, we should be true to our faith. God doesn't care how we see Him, only that we do in whatever way makes Him inviting, makes Him comfortable for us. Amma prescribes mantra and bajhans, all in Sanskrit, Malayalam, etc., words used in the Hindu faith, words not in any Western language. She tells us to gather together and practice these words. She uses examples from the Hindu epics and Indian mythology. I'm still very new to Amma, so correct me if I'm wrong. It's easy for me to see why someone would begin adopting the Indian lifestyle; India becomes a spiritual home for many people. Namaste, Gabriela Ammachi, "susheelanji" <susheelanji@n...> wrote: > You ask whether a Westerner can identify him/herself as a > Hindu because s/he does certain practices and is a follower of > Amma. I have struggled with this question in the years when I > tried to be the "good devotee". I don't think it is really possible. > I > also ask - why would a non-Indian want to identify himself as > Hindu? Isn't it just part of the play acting that goes on around > Amma, the desire to be part of the group, etc., all the stuff that > has turned it into a cult? I love Amma dearly but follow a different > spiritual practice. I have become so turned off by the pseudo- > Hindu stuff that goes on around Amma that I could not bring > myself to go see her this year - and I'm fine with that decision. I > did a long meditation retreat instead and it was just what I > needed. (Actually had a deep experience of Amma there, so I > know I had her blessings). Don't you wonder why, after all these > years, there are still about the same number of people who > come to see Amma? It is because Westerners hear the words > 'Hindu guru' and are immediately repelled because of all the > negative associations that brings, then they see Westerners > dressed in saris and dhotis and, worse yet, see them behave so > strangely and inappropiriately in public - so they don't come > back. Let Hinduism be for the Indians. Westerners should > remain true to their own culture and need not get swept up into > the exoticism of the East. All that is just another trip, another > false identity. After all, Amma is true, is she not? and she hasn't > come to the West to establish a religion, has she?. I think these > comments may rattle a few cages, but this is a forum. > > Susheelan > > Ammachi, "avinash7_99" < > avinash7_99> wrote: > > Ammachi, "omanacrane" < > eveningstar8@h...> > > wrote: > > > My humble prostrations to my beloved Amma and to all Her > children > > at > > > this site. I appreciate the postings about Guru Poornima, > they > > > enriched this special day for me. > > > > > > Yesterday two lovely young men came to my door. From their > name > > tags > > > I saw that they were Mormon missionaries. To save them > time, I > > > greeted them, said that I appreciated their visit, but that I was > > > very comfortable in my faith, and was not interested in > conversion. > > > They asked me what church I attended, and I stumbled and > > said, "None, > > > I am a Hindu." They looked aghast, and with my best wishes > they > > went > > > on their way. > > > > > > After this visit I thought about my response. I had never called > > > myself a Hindu before, and wondered if this was acceptable. > Can a > > > person born in the west to Christian parents be a Hindu? Is > one who > > > has been blessed to be found by a Sat Guru, who sees the > Divine as > > > Mother, who performs pujas, meditates, does mantra japa, > sings > > > Bhajans, makes pilgrimages to India, and holds the > teachings of > > > Sanatana Dharma as most dear a Hindu? Or should I have > told them > > > that I was a devotee of the Divine Mother? That I practiced > bhakti > > > yoga? That I believe in eastern philosophy? > > > > > > I realize that it is the ego that seeks to label, to catagorize, > > but > > > I would appreciate feedback on this subject. > > > Jai Ma! > > > Omana > > > > Dear devotee in Ammachi, > > Being a Hindu has nothing to with ethnicity or origin. The > essence of > > Sanatana Dharma is that, one is not the body one identifies > with but > > Atman and one should realise this. Detachment is what > matters, wether > > you are born into Hindu family or not. > > > > Om Namah shivaya, > > Avinash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 --- susheelanji <susheelanji wrote: > You ask whether a Westerner can identify him/herself > as a > Hindu because s/he does certain practices and is a > follower of > Amma. I have struggled with this question in the > years when I > tried to be the "good devotee". I don't think it is > really possible. > I > also ask - why would a non-Indian want to identify > himself as > Hindu? Isn't it just part of the play acting that > goes on around > Amma, the desire to be part of the group, etc., all > the stuff that > has turned it into a cult? I love Amma dearly but > follow a different > spiritual practice. I have become so turned off by > the pseudo- > Hindu stuff that goes on around Amma that I could > not bring > myself to go see her this year - and I'm fine with > that decision. I > did a long meditation retreat instead and it was > just what I > needed. (Actually had a deep experience of Amma > there, so I > know I had her blessings). Don't you wonder why, > after all these > years, there are still about the same number of > people who > come to see Amma? It is because Westerners hear the > words > 'Hindu guru' and are immediately repelled because of > all the > negative associations that brings, then they see > Westerners > dressed in saris and dhotis and, worse yet, see them > behave so > strangely and inappropiriately in public - so they > don't come > back. Let Hinduism be for the Indians. Westerners > should > remain true to their own culture and need not get > swept up into > the exoticism of the East. All that is just another > trip, another > false identity. After all, Amma is true, is she not? > and she hasn't > come to the West to establish a religion, has she?. > I think these > comments may rattle a few cages, but this is a > forum. > > Susheelan > > Ammachi, "avinash7_99" < > avinash7_99> wrote: > > Ammachi, "omanacrane" < > eveningstar8@h...> > > wrote: > > > My humble prostrations to my beloved Amma and to > all Her > children > > at > > > this site. I appreciate the postings about Guru > Poornima, > they > > > enriched this special day for me. > > > > > > Yesterday two lovely young men came to my door. > From their > name > > tags > > > I saw that they were Mormon missionaries. To > save them > time, I > > > greeted them, said that I appreciated their > visit, but that I was > > > very comfortable in my faith, and was not > interested in > conversion. > > > They asked me what church I attended, and I > stumbled and > > said, "None, > > > I am a Hindu." They looked aghast, and with my > best wishes > they > > went > > > on their way. > > > > > > After this visit I thought about my response. I > had never called > > > myself a Hindu before, and wondered if this was > acceptable. > Can a > > > person born in the west to Christian parents be > a Hindu? Is > one who > > > has been blessed to be found by a Sat Guru, who > sees the > Divine as > > > Mother, who performs pujas, meditates, does > mantra japa, > sings > > > Bhajans, makes pilgrimages to India, and holds > the > teachings of > > > Sanatana Dharma as most dear a Hindu? Or should > I have > told them > > > that I was a devotee of the Divine Mother? That > I practiced > bhakti > > > yoga? That I believe in eastern philosophy? > > > > > > I realize that it is the ego that seeks to > label, to catagorize, > > but > > > I would appreciate feedback on this subject. > > > Jai Ma! > > > Omana > > > > Dear devotee in Ammachi, > > Being a Hindu has nothing to with ethnicity or > origin. The > essence of > > Sanatana Dharma is that, one is not the body one > identifies > with but > > Atman and one should realise this. Detachment is > what > matters, wether > > you are born into Hindu family or not. > > > > Om Namah shivaya, > > Avinash. > Hi susheelan, I want to share few thoughts. We are living in a global village, so notions like East and West are obsolete. By the way whats wrong in weterners identifyig with hinduism. If Indians in India accept christianity, why not westeners accept Hinduism. Belive it or not almost every school in India is run by one or other christian denomination like Catholic, Protestant, Seventh Day Aventists. Few top colleges that come to my mind are St. Xavier's in Bombay, Presidency in Calcutta, Layola in Chennai(madras), St. Francis in Hyderabad. By the way just like westeners in Saris and dhotis you do find Indian christians in suits who could rival southern baptists like Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Billy Graham. Its not hard to find 'brown' Benjamins, Christophors, Sebastians in India. If my memory is right Pope was given a red carpet welcome in India, while our nighbouring country China would not allow him to enter and our dear Islamic Pakistan forget about it. What I am trying convey is this, we are living in giobalisation, people in their lives may come across different paths that may touch a chord with them. If Indians accept christianity and Islam, I don't see any wrong with some westerners identifying with sanatana dharma. In this modern world, people can change their gender, can't they change their belief. Om Avinash. SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 That's interesting... Years ago, after I began identifying as a Hindu, I found my relationship with Jesus and especially Mary/Virgen de Guadalupe deepened significantly. --- kalipadma wrote: > > American surfer-dude Michael Riggs went to India in > the late 1960's, > studied with Guru Neem Karoli Baba, who re-named him > Bhagavan Das, and > became famous when Ram Dass (born Richard Alpert) > wrote about him in his > best-selling book, "Be Here Now." > > Bhagvan Das often travels with Ammachi these days. > A friend of mine > attended a teaching by Bhagavan Das recently, and BD > said that Westerners > should not "change their religion" when exposed to > Hindu thought. "I > still worship Jesus," explained Bhagavan Das, > showing a cross dangling > from the guru bead of his <mala> (Hindu meditation > rosary). "It's just > that my image of Jesus has come more and more to > resemble Shiva." > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:23:37 -0000 "MSoliz" > <msoliz2000 > writes: > > I was talking to a friend last night about this > discussion thread and > > > > I brought up the suggestion put forth that > "Westerners should remain > > > > true to their own culture", and I thought... > "WHICH ONE???" > > > > Should I be more American? (I am, by the way, down > to shorts and a > > tee shirt every day) > > Should I be more Mexican? (I'm very much that, > too. I have five > > names > > to prove it!) > > Should I be more indigenous, Cherokee or Yaqui > like some of my > > great- > > grandparents? > > Should I be Spanish like my other ancestors? > > Should I be Catholic? > > > > ~~~ > > > > Maybe I should be an Atheist - both my parents > were... > > That's the culture I was brought up in, anyway. > > > > > ______________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno > SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up > today! > SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 Wow! I hope we meet someday because I too got dragged into all this by the noose of Lord Ganehsa, very effectively wielded in Flushing temple. I went ot hear Swami Chinmayananda give a talk. I had never been to a Hindu temple before, only to some talks by Swami Dayananda. I wasn't entirely clear what a Swami was, but thought it could be someone who was a little suspect from the great authority of our silent movies. I FREAKED out when I saw the statue of Ganesha in the center of the temple. After all, a fat man with an elephant's head!!! How completely unAmerican...at least the overweight part! And lots of people were bowing to the statue. Since I was so curious to hear Swami Chinmayananda for the first time, I stayed and watched my mind carry on. At one paint I thought of the phrase "God is everywhere." I was willing to let God be anywhere except in that black statue. The problem was in my thinking. I promised to return to the Flushing temple until I could see God in that statue of Ganesha. That was the beginning of many amazing blessings in my life. Aikya Ammachi, kalipadma@j... wrote: > > Susheelan -- you have a Hindu-sounding name. Are YOU a "Westerner" or a > Hindu? > > Long before I met Amma, I was fascinated by Hindu culture. In 1980, when > I moved to Flushing, I discovered The Ganesh Temple on Bowne Street. I > entered, took off my shoes, and walked directly to the main shrine of > Ganesha. I lost consciousness for 15 minutes (yet remained standing), > and awoke with my face wet with tears, filled with the unerring feeling > that I had "come home." > > I think different people get different things from Amma. She is > "ecumenical," and gives her blessing to everyone, regardless of their > spiritual practice. Personally, I am convinced of my own various > reincarnations, and I feel I have been Hindu in a past life. > > K. N. Rao, a distinguished Vedic astrologer, read my horoscope some years > ago. He pointed out that Rahu (the Moon's North Node) was conjunct my > Jupiter, and this would indicate an obsession with a culture outside the > one I was born in. It's a possibility... :-) > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 01:26:02 -0000 "susheelanji" > <susheelanji@n...> writes: > > You ask whether a Westerner can identify him/herself as a > > Hindu because s/he does certain practices and is a follower of > > Amma. I have struggled with this question in the years when I > > tried to be the "good devotee". I don't think it is really possible. > > I > > also ask - why would a non-Indian want to identify himself as > > Hindu? Isn't it just part of the play acting that goes on around > > Amma, the desire to be part of the group, etc., all the stuff that > > has turned it into a cult? I love Amma dearly but follow a different > > > > spiritual practice. I have become so turned off by the pseudo- > > Hindu stuff that goes on around Amma that I could not bring > > myself to go see her this year - and I'm fine with that decision. I > > did a long meditation retreat instead and it was just what I > > needed. (Actually had a deep experience of Amma there, so I > > know I had her blessings). Don't you wonder why, after all these > > years, there are still about the same number of people who > > come to see Amma? It is because Westerners hear the words > > 'Hindu guru' and are immediately repelled because of all the > > negative associations that brings, then they see Westerners > > dressed in saris and dhotis and, worse yet, see them behave so > > strangely and inappropiriately in public - so they don't come > > back. Let Hinduism be for the Indians. Westerners should > > remain true to their own culture and need not get swept up into > > the exoticism of the East. All that is just another trip, another > > false identity. After all, Amma is true, is she not? and she hasn't > > come to the West to establish a religion, has she?. I think these > > comments may rattle a few cages, but this is a forum. > > > > Susheelan > > > > > ______________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 ... ... now, in the endtimes ... the death of Mother Ocean, Cetacea, the World Forest ... there are no more Hindus, Taoists, Moslems, Jews, Buddhists, Christians ... We are all Earthlings ... and sentient Earthlings only if we NOW COME TOGETHER ... create a vehicle for global decisionmaking ... and end the violence against self, sister, and Gaia ... Millennium [and in coming together, giving up our 'cults', accepting HER love and wisdom, healing our planet, we can then realize and preserve the depths of our ancestral teachings in a thousand times greater detail and security ... without the ambiguity, without the confusion and ignorance, in calm and clarity, AND creation ...] ... .. Plus - For a better Internet experience http://uk.promotions./yplus/yoffer.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 yeah, the ganesha temple is a r e a l thrill. i was there for 2 ayyappa pujas last december with my indian friends. we circumbulated the big ganesha shrine and passed all the other deities represented in little shrines along the temple. and there was amma in the mind, it was almost a god overdose if there is such a thing ;-)) jai ma! -c --- Aikya Param <aikya wrote: > Wow! I hope we meet someday because I too got > dragged into all this > by the noose of Lord Ganehsa, very effectively > wielded in Flushing > temple. I went ot hear Swami Chinmayananda give a > talk. I had never > been to a Hindu temple before, only to some talks by > Swami > Dayananda. I wasn't entirely clear what a Swami > was, but thought it > could be someone who was a little suspect from the > great authority of > our silent movies. I FREAKED out when I saw the > statue of Ganesha in > the center of the temple. After all, a fat man with > an elephant's > head!!! How completely unAmerican...at least the > overweight part! > And lots of people were bowing to the statue. > > Since I was so curious to hear Swami Chinmayananda > for the first > time, I stayed and watched my mind carry on. At one > paint I thought > of the phrase "God is everywhere." I was willing to > let God be > anywhere except in that black statue. The problem > was in my > thinking. I promised to return to the Flushing > temple until I could > see God in that statue of Ganesha. That was the > beginning of many > amazing blessings in my life. > > Aikya > Ammachi, kalipadma@j... > wrote: > > > > Susheelan -- you have a Hindu-sounding name. Are > YOU a "Westerner" > or a > > Hindu? > > > > Long before I met Amma, I was fascinated by Hindu > culture. In > 1980, when > > I moved to Flushing, I discovered The Ganesh > Temple on Bowne > Street. I > > entered, took off my shoes, and walked directly to > the main shrine > of > > Ganesha. I lost consciousness for 15 minutes (yet > remained > standing), > > and awoke with my face wet with tears, filled with > the unerring > feeling > > that I had "come home." > > > > I think different people get different things from > Amma. She is > > "ecumenical," and gives her blessing to everyone, > regardless of > their > > spiritual practice. Personally, I am convinced of > my own various > > reincarnations, and I feel I have been Hindu in a > past life. > > > > K. N. Rao, a distinguished Vedic astrologer, read > my horoscope some > years > > ago. He pointed out that Rahu (the Moon's North > Node) was conjunct > my > > Jupiter, and this would indicate an obsession with > a culture > outside the > > one I was born in. It's a possibility... :-) > > > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > > > > On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 01:26:02 -0000 "susheelanji" > > <susheelanji@n...> writes: > > > You ask whether a Westerner can identify > him/herself as a > > > Hindu because s/he does certain practices and is > a follower of > > > Amma. I have struggled with this question in the > years when I > > > tried to be the "good devotee". I don't think it > is really > possible. > > > I > > > also ask - why would a non-Indian want to > identify himself as > > > Hindu? Isn't it just part of the play acting > that goes on around > > > Amma, the desire to be part of the group, etc., > all the stuff > that > > > has turned it into a cult? I love Amma dearly > but follow a > different > > > > > > spiritual practice. I have become so turned off > by the pseudo- > > > Hindu stuff that goes on around Amma that I > could not bring > > > myself to go see her this year - and I'm fine > with that decision. > I > > > did a long meditation retreat instead and it was > just what I > > > needed. (Actually had a deep experience of Amma > there, so I > > > know I had her blessings). Don't you wonder why, > after all these > > > years, there are still about the same number of > people who > > > come to see Amma? It is because Westerners hear > the words > > > 'Hindu guru' and are immediately repelled > because of all the > > > negative associations that brings, then they see > Westerners > > > dressed in saris and dhotis and, worse yet, see > them behave so > > > strangely and inappropiriately in public - so > they don't come > > > back. Let Hinduism be for the Indians. > Westerners should > > > remain true to their own culture and need not > get swept up into > > > the exoticism of the East. All that is just > another trip, another > > > false identity. After all, Amma is true, is she > not? and she > hasn't > > > come to the West to establish a religion, has > she?. I think these > > > comments may rattle a few cages, but this is a > forum. > > > > > > Susheelan > > > > > > > > > > ______________ > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno > SpeedBand! > > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up > today! > > SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 Namah Shivaya, "It's just > that my image of Jesus has come more and more to resemble Shiva." As a westerner raised in Christian culture, mine has come more and more to resemble Amma, the fisherwoman who teaches with parables and suffers all her children to come unto her. p. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 Namah Shivaya, > Amma prescribes mantra and bajhans, all in Sanskrit, Malayalam, etc., she has prescribed in Hebrew. p. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Each person follows his/her own dharma. Some approach Amma because it is their dharma to follow her and see her as manifestation of God herself. Some see her as Guruji, some as mother, etc. Every person sees Amma and "religion" differently because we're all at different points in our spiritual development. You cannot give a first grader a college exam. With love, Erica --- Ramlal <conte wrote: > On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 01:26:02 -0000, susheelanji > <susheelanji > wrote: > > > You ask whether a Westerner can identify > him/herself as a Hindu because > > s/he does certain practices and is a follower of > Amma. I have struggled > > with this question in the years when I tried to be > the "good devotee". I > > don't think it is really possible. SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 01:26:02 -0000, susheelanji > <susheelanji > wrote: > Isn't it just part of the play acting that goes on > around Amma, the > desire to be part of the group, etc., all the > stuff that has turned it > into a cult? I love Amma dearly but follow a > different spiritual > practice. I have become so turned off by the > pseudo- > Hindu stuff that goes on around Amma. Susheelan-ji, I think I know you, yes? From KC. I roomed with you at my first retreat in San Ramon? (If not, my apologies). My 2 cents: being with Amma I notice how the people around push my buttons. It's very intense. But I think it's part of the work Mother wants us to do. We get to see the workings of our minds in excruciating detail in Her presence. But ultimately I don't think we're seeing anything new. Those irritations with people occur in the work-a-day world all the time. We just notice it big-time when we are with Mother. And invariably the person who is most getting on my nerves will be the person I do seva with or who sits in my group of four during atma-puja. Amma loves doing this. As for being "Hindu," I'm a white-guy Hindu myself. My experience is that I don't have a "choice" in the matter. I didn't choose to be a Hindu or a follower of Sanatana Dharma or whatever. I just noticed one day that it was the most accurate description. Not a very good Hindu at all, at all. But a bad Hindu more than anything else. It's all just labels anyway, like others have more eloquently said. Jai Maa! --Aravind Jami SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2003 Report Share Posted July 19, 2003 hmmm... when I am around Amma what is usually notice is that I am a totally rotten person compared to everyone else around:-). There are some truly wonderful people who spend day in and day out doing the most mundane things, without sleep sometimes and who are perpetually in good humour. I guess there are different lessons for each of us to learn. yogaman > My 2 cents: being with Amma I notice how the people > around push my buttons. It's very intense. But I > think it's part of the work Mother wants us to do. We > get to see the workings of our minds in excruciating > detail in Her presence. But ultimately I don't think > we're seeing anything new. Those irritations with > people occur in the work-a-day world all the time. We > just notice it big-time when we are with Mother. And > invariably the person who is most getting on my nerves > will be the person I do seva with or who sits in my > group of four during atma-puja. Amma loves doing > this. > > As for being "Hindu," I'm a white-guy Hindu myself. > My experience is that I don't have a "choice" in the > matter. I didn't choose to be a Hindu or a follower > of Sanatana Dharma or whatever. I just noticed one > day that it was the most accurate description. Not a > very good Hindu at all, at all. But a bad Hindu more > than anything else. It's all just labels anyway, like > others have more eloquently said. > > Jai Maa! > --Aravind Jami > > > > > SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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