Devi Bhava Flower Petal Thesis

[Guest guest]

On Saturday, August 9, 2003, at 12:57 PM, sprose1 wrote:

 

In a message dated 8/9/03 7:12:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

Ammachi writes:

Dear B.: Your method sounds interesting but I am unclear about it. Do

you

close the paper bag, with the layers of tissue and petals inside? If

so, how

would the sun get at it? And how would air get at it? If open, then

won't the

wind blow them away? Can you clarify what you mean, since you are

saying it

works for you? Avram

 

My dear brother Avram ,

 

With all the wisdoms you have shared in this thread....I am perplexed

by the above request......however I will attempt to be very

specific......but BEG my other less interested brothers and sister to

delete now, so that the amount of detail and potential for inaccuracy

of my reasoning will not take up precious time that you could be

meditating.

 

The principles are very antiquated. Drying petals naturally is like a

hand formed loaf of bread on a wooden palate in a stone oven...the

moisture is baked out of the form to dehydrate the ingredients, thus

leaving life force nutrition for the consumer. The petals willingly

release the moisture to return to the earth from whence they came. As

blessed and sacred petals, touched by our loving Mother, for our

healing and as symbol of her compassion in transforming us into more

loving beings, these tiny petals pack a punch of shakti. So I never

really expected them to "leave me" .....as I always know that Mother is

with me, protecting me, and that every morsel she offers me, is sacred

and I bond with it.

 

The wind could try to suck them away but I trust me to remain conscious

of the venturian effect in the car on the tiny petals, and Mothers

assist in retaining them for my continual transformation, as I am only

able to see her five days per year and generally only have two Devi

Bhavas in 365 days. I am not complaining.....I am merely stating the

importance of my focusing on this special opportunity and reaping the

wealth of the sacred petals on my puja.

 

The brown paper bags that the bookstore use are generally not waxed or

made of thick paper (wood base) product, in fact the seams often pry

open spontaneously, thus the bag is made of a natural product and is

porous enough to let air circulate thru it.... and it acts as a natural

oven environment with the tissue paper absorbing the moisture from the

flower petals as the suns rays are collected. Many tissues have more

than one layer, thus one ply, two ply, etc....and a four star hotel

often has three ply tissue, five star have four ply (just a little

humor)....and the thinner the layers of tissue with no petal touching

another will improve the moisture moving from the petal to the tissue.

 

Using plastic lined bags will inhibit the air circulation, thus the

mold. If I happen to forget a paper bag, I have been known to line the

back ledge of the car and the back seat with tissue and sprinkle the

petals evenly placed, not touching each other. This method requires

being conscious of the petal placement, not opening the windows at high

speeds, and having the desire to keep every sacred petal a chance to

have the rays of sunshine be absorbed in route home (usually 6-9 hour

drive).

 

Generally I drive with others to programs, so this method only works if

my traveling companion is as persistent and as committed to the open

drying method, and willing to have tissues with petals all over the

seats, thus not having windows open much more than a few inches. In

the summer, this is easy while having air conditioning on there is a

dehydrating process. In the November Michigan trip, it works the same

way if the heat is on in the car, the petals can be laid out....or the

paper bag/one ply at a time layered method works well in the back

window where the sun has direct access. The suns rays illuminate not

only the surface they hit...but they penetrate through............as

Amma sends the sun to our hearts and illuminates our souls....so does

the sun work thru the paper and amplify the shakti of each precious

petal within the paper pocket.

 

This reminds me of a prayer once offered of which I do not remember the

author, only the person who gave it to me.

 

“Gayatri to the Sun

You are the source of all power

Whose rays illuminate the whole world

Illuminate also my heart, so that it to can do your work.”

 

More about Devi Bhava petals..........I have a tested method of

obtaining large quantities of Devi Bhava petals specifically offered to

me by Mother during the walk around that has been remarkable

successful. I share this information now for two reason.....(1) flower

petals stain the carpets of the hotels , especially if the petals are

ground in the carpet with repeated trampling. The environmental staff,

of at least two hotels have mentioned this to be a problem. While

petals are showered during daily darshan, there are San Ramon owned

carpets beneath Mother that continually absorb the color. (2) If we all

had ways to collect petals and have fewer fall to the floor, less would

be lost or taken up by vacuum cleaners.

 

So...with this in mind....I took a 13 gallon plastic bag (since the

base is broad, not concerned about the depth of the bag) with pull

string and fold it in my pocket on Devi Bhava night. As Amma Amma Tyae

starts and the line starts to move, I attempt to be closest to the

stage while moving near Amma.

This July, in Chicago, I quickly placed the bag over my head holding

the sides up and resting the base of the bag over my crown chakra (just

as I neared the stage) ……and Amma specifically took a step forward and

I felt a hug fist of petals hit my crown chakra, ….and danced on with

joy, knowing that I had received a distinct and personalized fist of

flowers….I cheered and Amma smiled….then I quickly closed the bag…..to

retrieve all that I was given by my Mother. Of course, I removed the

petals from the plastic and started the layering methods on tissue

…………..So………..I thought……this method of collection would save the

carpets if all devotees wore collecting vessels. So……

I have been attempting to design a Devi Bhava Crown Hat/Cap for

devotees to wear at the end of Devi Bhava which would be purchased on

Devi Bhava night to any devotee who chooses to support Mothers

Charities. This crown hat/cap has a lip or rim around the top of the

head with a paper tray over the crown, similar to a chefs white paper

hat, a sailors hat, or armed service-mans folded cap…….but would be

aesthetically pleasing. Who more creative could decorate for sale on

Devi Bhava night but our teens…..with all their entrepreneurial energy

and creativity------.they love projects that allow them to set up a

table and promote their products for Mother’s charities. Should any of

the devotees reading this message have access to large quantities of

chefs paper hats in bulk, please email me directly. Feel free to offer

this idea to any satsong leader who feels their teens might find this

idea one in which they could execute a reasonably clever and profitable

outcome for Mother's charities. Those in San Ramon area, say Wise

Brother Bala, might ask Dayamrita Swami if this crown vessel idea is

acceptable.

 

BTW: I keep the petals, foil and the miniature paper tail on the

Hershey kisses, the plastic holy water solo cups and lids, etc in a

wooden box for a decade.....as Swamiji or maybe Swami Ramakrishna once

challenged us to keep ALL that Mother gave us, including the foil of

the kiss....of which I am still trying to determine what work of art

could be created, then sent to the bookstore for resale for charities.

I am still perplexed about a prototype of miniature foil. Maybe a

devotee will offer this to our young teens who are so powerful with

ideas and so motivated to assist in Mothers charities.

 

Om Namah Shivaya,

Amritavarshini

 

On Saturday, August 9, 2003, at 12:57 PM, sprose1 wrote:

 

> In a message dated 8/9/03 7:12:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> Ammachi writes:

> Dear B.: Your method sounds interesting but I am unclear about it.

> Do you

> close the paper bag, with the layers of tissue and petals inside? If

> so, how

> would the sun get at it? And how would air get at it? If open, then

> won't the

> wind blow them away? Can you clarify what you mean, since you are

> saying it

> works for you? Avram

>> Message: 13

>> Fri, 8 Aug 2003 22:40:56 -0500

>> "b.edmonds" <edmondsb

>> Drying Devi Bhava Flower petals

>>

>> Namah Shivaya Bros &Sisters

>>

>> Immediate after Devi Bhava, I attend to my petals, even before I rest

>> prior to driving. I have had the most luck taking a small brown

>> paper

>> sack (left over from bookstall purchases) and making very thin layers

>> of tissues or paper toweling with petals on each level loosely

>> arranging them. Then I fold the outside edge , place them in the back

>> window ledge of my car or on the dash near Mothers picture, and let

>> the

>> rays of sunshine do the work to illuminate the shakti. By the time I

>> am

>> home, they are ready for my puja. I have used plastic bags for outside

>> liners, but the petals need to breathe or they will mold. Craft stores

>> sell a crystalline product which will assist in keeping the true

>> color,

>> but is not as natural. To press the flowers in books or under heavy

>> objects seems to be in direct contrast to our Mothers lovingly

>> showering us with petals and hugs.........

>> ONS,

>> Amritavarshini

>

>

>

>

>

>

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> Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!

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> Ammachi

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I see the indiana.edu in your address, and wonder who

is your faculty advisor for your doctoral dissertation

on devi bhava flower petals. Good luck defending your

thesis BTW, I.U. is my father's alma mater (PhD in

Psychology, 1962)

 

I don't take such extraordinary means to preseve devi

bhava petals. A few days after I get them home, they

dry out and disintegrate, and I sprinkle the remnant

crumbs on my altar, and that's that until the next

darshan. I do pick up loose petals from the floor,

and stuff them into whatver is handy - a plastic

sandwich bag, or a paper bookstore bag, or even the

pages of a Bhajanamritam book. I hang on to the foil

Hershey Kiss wrappers for a while, but I usually eat

the Kiss within 3 minutes after having darshan.

Although once last year at the Michigan devi bhava,

Amma unwrapped the kiss and popped it into my mouth.

 

I've also noted purple stains on my white

stuff..particularly the seat of my pants, which I

presume were caused by flower petals on the floor.

 

Keval

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I am very surprised at the way some are addressing my

flower petal drying suggestion. I was simply trying to

help. "The microwave thing" is a trick that is used by

many crafters to dry the petals quickly and with no

damage to the petals whatsoever.

 

I am also surprised that some would suggest that

microwaves can destroy or counteract the shakti in the

petals. I cannot believe that the shakti can be

destroyed! And, if microwaves can do this, then we

best be sure not to store anything in plastic, or use

any Windex to clean the picture frames, or use Tide to

wash any fabric, or use anything else that is not "the

natural way", else it will destroy shakti or something

else. I also remember that Amma gives us Hershey's

kisses. Are they "pure" or "natural"? No.

 

So, which is worse? Letting the petals get destroyed

by mold, crumpled, or microwaves?

 

I mean no disrespect. I will be the first to stand up

and say that we all approach Amma according to our own

dharma. While some may feel that microwaving petals is

"WRONG", please remember that not all of us approach

things from the same way, and only try to help.

 

With love,

Erica

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Cool Erica. Very well said.

In Compassionate Service

malati

 

<< I am very surprised at the way some are addressing my

flower petal drying suggestion. I was simply trying to

help. "The microwave thing" is a trick that is used by

many crafters to dry the petals quickly and with no

damage to the petals whatsoever.

 

I am also surprised that some would suggest that

microwaves can destroy or counteract the shakti in the

petals. I cannot believe that the shakti can be

destroyed! And, if microwaves can do this, then we

best be sure not to store anything in plastic, or use

any Windex to clean the picture frames, or use Tide to

wash any fabric, or use anything else that is not "the

natural way", else it will destroy shakti or something

else. I also remember that Amma gives us Hershey's

kisses. Are they "pure" or "natural"? No.

 

So, which is worse? Letting the petals get destroyed

by mold, crumpled, or microwaves?

 

I mean no disrespect. I will be the first to stand up

and say that we all approach Amma according to our own

dharma. While some may feel that microwaving petals is

"WRONG", please remember that not all of us approach

things from the same way, and only try to help.

 

With love,

Erica

 

>>

[Guest guest]

Dear Erica,

 

I too was only trying to help by explaining what the Hindus

themselves do. I am not an indian or a hindu but am very good

friends with several devout Hindu families. They wouldn't apply any

kind of heat to these flowers. Infact, They wouldn't keep these

flowers period. Once it is offered to God, it remains on the pooja

until it is cleaned for the next morning's worship. The old flowers

are then thrown away in a stream or buried. Ofcourse, the western

culture is to hold on to everything and so we go to an Eastern

religion and try to adapt it to our ways. Is it any wonder that

Hindus don't want us to visit their temples or practice their

religion. If we do they try to be tolerant of us.

 

The shakti cannot be destroyed or harmed but the Eastern reasoning

is that she is treated exactly or more respectfully than we would

each other. IF we wouldn't microwave each other why would we

microwave flowers that have been blessed and therefore full of

shakti. Anyway, I offered this information to help not create a

fight on Amma's beautiful newsgroup.

 

Om Shanti

 

Ammachi, Erica <sugarandbrine> wrote:

> I am very surprised at the way some are addressing my

> flower petal drying suggestion. I was simply trying to

> help. "The microwave thing" is a trick that is used by

> many crafters to dry the petals quickly and with no

> damage to the petals whatsoever.

>

> I am also surprised that some would suggest that

> microwaves can destroy or counteract the shakti in the

> petals. I cannot believe that the shakti can be

> destroyed!

[Guest guest]

I certainly am not trying to start any fight! I was

only stating my own opinion on the matter which was

not even directed at you or anyone else.

 

My point was that the flower petals are, by nature,

transient, just as we all are. Just as beautiful

murthis are made of mud and clay and submerged into

the Ganges, we too will turn to dust one day, as will

the flower petals. We are all more than "that".

 

I saved a few of the petals myself and keep them

(dried) inside the picture frame I have with Amma's

picture. They are there only as a reminder of my

experience. However, my Indian Hindu husband rather

turned up his nose at the idea of saving them too. He

laughed when I told him that I felt like they were a

reminder of Amma's blessings. He said that Her

blessings are not held in flower petals. They simply

ARE. I guess this is what I was trying to get across

-- not a fight. I apologize if it came across that

way.

 

With Love,

Erica

 

--- ons20022001 <ons20022001 wrote:

> Dear Erica,

>

> I too was only trying to help by explaining what the

> Hindus

> themselves do. I am not an indian or a hindu but am

> very good

> friends with several devout Hindu families. They

> wouldn't apply any

> kind of heat to these flowers. Infact, They wouldn't

> keep these

> flowers period. Once it is offered to God, it

> remains on the pooja

> until it is cleaned for the next morning's worship.

> The old flowers

> are then thrown away in a stream or buried.

> Ofcourse, the western

> culture is to hold on to everything and so we go to

> an Eastern

> religion and try to adapt it to our ways. Is it any

> wonder that

> Hindus don't want us to visit their temples or

> practice their

> religion. If we do they try to be tolerant of us.

>

> The shakti cannot be destroyed or harmed but the

> Eastern reasoning

> is that she is treated exactly or more respectfully

> than we would

> each other. IF we wouldn't microwave each other why

> would we

> microwave flowers that have been blessed and

> therefore full of

> shakti. Anyway, I offered this information to help

> not create a

> fight on Amma's beautiful newsgroup.

>

> Om Shanti

>

> Ammachi, Erica

> <sugarandbrine> wrote:

> > I am very surprised at the way some are addressing

> my

> > flower petal drying suggestion. I was simply

> trying to

> > help. "The microwave thing" is a trick that is

> used by

> > many crafters to dry the petals quickly and with

> no

> > damage to the petals whatsoever.

> >

> > I am also surprised that some would suggest that

> > microwaves can destroy or counteract the shakti in

> the

> > petals. I cannot believe that the shakti can be

> > destroyed!

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I usually save the flower petals until they disintegrate, too. What I

<have> begun doing is bringing a small water-tight dropper bottle to the

Puja before Devi Bhava, and taking home the holy water that Amma

distributes. I put five drops on my Narmada Shiva-lingam when I do Puja

at home. A friend who's into Santeria gave me a recipe for a psychically

cleansing wash to mist-spray around doors and windows, and in corners of

the room. Among the ingredients was Holy Water from a Catholic church --

and I'm NOT in any fashion Christian! -- so I substitute the Hindu Holy

Water.

 

I sometimes offer Amma's holy water as <prasad> to be ingested after a

ritual... but one visitor complained, "Ugh! There's <camphor> in this

water, isn't there? It'll negate all my homeopathic remedies!"

 

-- Len/ Kalipadma

 

 

On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 08:15:10 -0700 (PDT) Mike Brooker

<patria1818 writes:

>

> I don't take such extraordinary means to preseve devi

> bhava petals. A few days after I get them home, they

> dry out and disintegrate, and I sprinkle the remnant

> crumbs on my altar, and that's that until the next

> darshan. I do pick up loose petals from the floor,

> and stuff them into whatver is handy - a plastic

> sandwich bag, or a paper bookstore bag, or even the

> pages of a Bhajanamritam book. I hang on to the foil

> Hershey Kiss wrappers for a while, but I usually eat

> the Kiss within 3 minutes after having darshan.

> Although once last year at the Michigan devi bhava,

> Amma unwrapped the kiss and popped it into my mouth.

>

> I've also noted purple stains on my white

> stuff..particularly the seat of my pants, which I

> presume were caused by flower petals on the floor.

>

 

 

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[Guest guest]

The MOTHERLODE!!!

Heavenly Ammachi fistfull on your crown charkra!!! Jai Lakshmi Devi Ma!!!

 

Next tour Devi Bhava everybody watch out for Srimati Amritavarshini, and the

original 13 gallon bag yogasana!!

 

In a message dated 8/11/03 7:09:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

Ammachi writes:

 

<< This July, in Chicago, I quickly placed the bag over my head holding

the sides up and resting the base of the bag over my crown chakra (just

as I neared the stage) ……and Amma specifically took a step forward and

I felt a hug fist of petals hit my crown chakra, ….and danced on with

joy, knowing that I had received a distinct and personalized fist of

flowers….I cheered and Amma smiled….then I quickly closed the bag…. >>

[Guest guest]

Ammachi, Erica <sugarandbrine> wrote:

 

> I saved a few of the petals myself and keep them

> (dried) inside the picture frame I have with Amma's

> picture. They are there only as a reminder of my

> experience. However, my Indian Hindu husband rather

> turned up his nose at the idea of saving them too. He

> laughed when I told him that I felt like they were a

> reminder of Amma's blessings. He said that Her

> blessings are not held in flower petals. They simply

> ARE.

> With Love,

> Erica

 

>

I guess what Westerners are missing out on is the 'essence' of

Hinduism. Yes, the blessings just are; you don't have to transfer

tham to flowers and hold on to those flowers to feel the blessings.

However, that does not mean there is no shakti in the flower,

especially Devi Bhava flowers. The Indian way would be to pick them

up with reverence, place them on your puja - untreated and return

them to nature the next day. Letting go seems to be a very western

problem and we carry it into everything we do.

 

What I find many of us westerners doing is adapting Hindu ways to

our own western 'culture' and then creating more karma for ourselves

from slighting the shakti. It takes a while for us, for example to

realize that their is consciousness in sandals and in a hat but each

has its place. You will find people carrying their sandals back to

back with their bhajan books into a hall where Amma and others are

singing bhajans. Or stretch their legs in Amma's or someone else's

direction. How many times have the swamis reminded us that the hall

IS a temple, yet, how many get it. It is the 'essence' of Hinduism

that we are missing out on and are creating problems for ourselves.

To each his own, I guess. Anyway, this is it for me on this subject.

[Guest guest]

Aum Amriteshwaryai Namah...

 

Whether holding on to Mother's Devi Bhava petalling as prasad is a Western

vs. a Hindu thing seems to beg the question. For my recollection of the

announcement which follows Mother's retreat into the temple at the end of

the Bhava is thus: The flower petals are consecrated and may be gathered

to take home, spread around the garden, etc. etc. Also, aren't the Amma

dolls stuffed with dried Devi Bhava petals? Both suggest to me that

Mother herself is encouraging us to treat them as talismans if we need

them to be or are so inclined.

 

I myself would never microwave them, but this could be a generational

divide between those who grew up with mothers suspicious of the

radio-cookers and those who took them for granted as convenient devices.

At least that's my reading of the mutual shock and startling responses to

each other's "techniques" of preservation.

 

I did, however, separate the arm full of shakti Mamma blasted me with in

D.C. from the petals I picked up off the floor, which I brought home to my

college roommate hostess in Vienna, VA. Her three year old found the cup

at some point and gleefully hurled them into the air like a little Devi.

 

Now what does one do with the vibhuti (sacred ash) prasad? Save, use as

topical medicine? oral medicine? for archana?? thanks for the advice.

 

xo prashanti

[Guest guest]

Namaste to all... _/\_

 

I guess this topic is about more than flower petals,

ay?

 

My point was that Amma lives in our hearts, not in any

flower petals or prasad. I treat the flower petals

with respect, but not as if they are the essence of

Amma herself.

 

Tat twam asi. I am that, the flower petals are that,

you are all that, Amma is certainly that. As I said,

all of us and all of these "things" are -- by nature

-- transient. It's all maya, and it depends on our own

level of detachment whether we see that or not.

 

Our intent shapes our actions (karmas) and the results

of the karmas. If we put the petals in the microwave

with the intent of preserving them and treating them

respectfully, then the results will be as such. If we

put them in the nuker to see if they will blow up,

then the results will fall in line with that as well.

 

It is just the same as the difference between a

surgeon and a murderer: both make cuts with a knife,

but come from compeltely different places (intent).

The karmic debts are certainly different for someone

intending to save a life rather than take a life!

 

I suppose I come from a different mode of thought from

most of the people on this list, which is why my

thinking is so different, misunderstood, and frowned

upon.

 

I bow to all of you, and see the Divinity inside each

of you.

 

With love,

Padmakshi

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

-

> Also, aren't the Amma

> dolls stuffed with dried Devi Bhava petals?

 

No, you pull the Amma doll open in the middle and

there is a smaller doll inside. And you pull apart

the smaller doll to find an even smaller one inside.

And a still smaller one inside that, etc... like those

Russian "Matroshka" dolls.

 

OK, now that I've extracted my tongue from my cheek..

yes, the Amma dolls have devi bhava petals inside.

And who knows what else. They don't come with a "do

not remove under penalty of law" label like most

stuffed toys.

 

Keval

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 06:10:17 -0700 (PDT), Mike Brooker

<patria1818 wrote:

 

>> Also, aren't the Amma

>> dolls stuffed with dried Devi Bhava petals?

>

<snip>

> yes, the Amma dolls have devi bhava petals inside. And who knows what

> else.

 

 

"The dolls are made of pure white wool, which is diligently wound, pressed

and stuffed into the pre-sown body shapes. This is a crucial process. The

doll body has to be hard and strong enough to withstand constant handling.

The wool has to be very tightly packed but even. The head is the most

important part. It is the first shape to be made and begins with winding

the wool around dried flower petals from Amma's Devi Bhava.

 

"The maker has to have skill both in stuffing and forming the shapes for

the eyes, nose and mouth. The head has to be sewn so that it sits nicely on

the body. Then the eyes, ears, arms, hands legs and feet have to be exactly

made and sewn on so that both sides are equal. The hair is made of pure

black mohair and every strand is carefully measured before sewing into

place. Every doll is embossed with a heart sewn with gold thread.

 

"Lastly the dolls are dressed, sometimes with material taken from Amma's

saris or Devi Bhava costume. Even jewels and cloth from the temple's Kali

deity are sometimes given to make doll clothes. The malas for the bigger

dolls contain three beads from Amma's Devi Bhava malas."

 

>From http://www.amritapuri.org/products/dolls.htm

 

Pranams,

Ramlal

 

--

Aum Amriteshvaryai Namah