Cultish behavior, emotional expression

[Guest guest]

I believe a "cult" is determined by its

founder/leader, not by the behavior of the devotees.

In fact, one can look up the definition of a cult and

see that Amma is not leading one. If some devotees

are far more emotive than others, I don't belive that

means they are behaving cultish.

 

Amma will guide us ultimately, not each other. We can

offer advice, but I think it's important for us all to

remember than one of the fundamental needs driving the

guru-disciple relationship is the disciples' need for

spiritual guidance. The guru can help us determine

what is real and what is not.

 

>From what I've read in Awaken Children, Amma says it

is okay to see her as God as long as we remember that

"God is electricity and she is a lightbulb". With

that understanding in mind, of what immeasurable force

lies behind her, we are free to see her as God's form.

She leaves it up to us, whether we see God as

formless or with form, and with whatever form we

identify we are free to commune. Some devotees choose

Amma's physical body as the form of God to which they

pray and cry for.

 

Because she herself says that it is fine to pray to

God with a form, and that we are free to see her

physical body as that form, I believe it's okay to cry

to be close to Amma, specifically. If this particular

form of worship is inappropriate for someone, Amma

will give them guidance in this life or the next, or

the next.

 

On that note, we are all on the path, on different

parts of it. I shouldn't expect or wish or hope that

others will walk the same part of the path the same

way I do.

 

With love,

Gabriela

 

Amma says...

 

"Constant waiting, waiting with intense longing for

the Lord's or the Guru's arrival is the sign of a true

devotee. Such a seeker is always ready to receive Him;

therefore, he is always prepared both internally and

externally to welcome his Guru or Lord.

 

"Crying to God for five minutes is equal to one hour

of meditation. If tears are not coming by themselves,

try to cry by thinking, ‘Why am I not able to cry?’

Try to develop devotion. That is the easiest way."

 

"Faith and obedience in the Satguru will give us

self-confidence. Obedience to the Guru is very

important. The Guru is the all-pervading Parabrahman

(Absolute Self) in human form; therefore, he is

immanent."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namah Shivaya,

My husband and I were both involved in Siddha Yoga for several years in the late

'70s and erly '80s. We met Mother a

long time ago.

 

I believe that we all should use our discrimination. I have read the "leaving

SY" web site and list In my opinion,

there are no similarities between the SY and MA organizations or experience.

 

At Her Feet

Prasadini

 

Miranda Soliz wrote:

 

> I believe a "cult" is determined by its

> founder/leader, not by the behavior of the devotees.

> In fact, one can look up the definition of a cult and

> see that Amma is not leading one. If some devotees

> are far more emotive than others, I don't belive that

> means they are behaving cultish.

>

> Amma will guide us ultimately, not each other. We can

> offer advice, but I think it's important for us all to

> remember than one of the fundamental needs driving the

> guru-disciple relationship is the disciples' need for

> spiritual guidance. The guru can help us determine

> what is real and what is not.

>

> >From what I've read in Awaken Children, Amma says it

> is okay to see her as God as long as we remember that

> "God is electricity and she is a lightbulb". With

> that understanding in mind, of what immeasurable force

> lies behind her, we are free to see her as God's form.

> She leaves it up to us, whether we see God as

> formless or with form, and with whatever form we

> identify we are free to commune. Some devotees choose

> Amma's physical body as the form of God to which they

> pray and cry for.

>

> Because she herself says that it is fine to pray to

> God with a form, and that we are free to see her

> physical body as that form, I believe it's okay to cry

> to be close to Amma, specifically. If this particular

> form of worship is inappropriate for someone, Amma

> will give them guidance in this life or the next, or

> the next.

>

> On that note, we are all on the path, on different

> parts of it. I shouldn't expect or wish or hope that

> others will walk the same part of the path the same

> way I do.

>

> With love,

> Gabriela

>

> Amma says...

>

> "Constant waiting, waiting with intense longing for

> the Lord's or the Guru's arrival is the sign of a true

> devotee. Such a seeker is always ready to receive Him;

> therefore, he is always prepared both internally and

> externally to welcome his Guru or Lord.

>

> "Crying to God for five minutes is equal to one hour

> of meditation. If tears are not coming by themselves,

> try to cry by thinking, ‘Why am I not able to cry?’

> Try to develop devotion. That is the easiest way."

>

> "Faith and obedience in the Satguru will give us

> self-confidence. Obedience to the Guru is very

> important. The Guru is the all-pervading Parabrahman

> (Absolute Self) in human form; therefore, he is

> immanent."

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!

>

> Ammachi

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

[Guest guest]

--- ons20022001 <ons20022001 wrote:

> Ammachi, ganesh108

 

Dear ONS,

 

Thank you for this post. I am looking forward to

dipping into "Sun at Midnight," even though I'm

a little suspect of Andrew Harvey for leaving

his guru. The book I recommend for dealing with the

guru vs. self-ownership issue is "Balancing Heaven and

Earth" by Robert Johnson, a noted Jungian therapist.

I feel like this book saved my life and my sanity

around the issue of Amma. If you are a deeply

sensitive and intuitive person, Johnson will seem

like a soulmate!

 

In Amma's love,

Jyotsna

>

>

> We need to keep ownership of our decisions

> and actions,

>

> Anyway for those who have no experience of cults

> (first, thank God

> you don't) there are resources that you can access.

>

> 1. www.leavingsiddhayoga.net and

> 2. a book called "Sun at Midnight" by Andrew

>Harvey

>

> My advice to people who are still open enough in

> their spiritual

> journey is that we should do our sadhana with

> awareness and not with

> blind faith. That is all.

>

> Om Shanti

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Ammachi, "E. Lamb" <jyotsna2> wrote:

 

> Dear ONS,

>

> Thank you for this post. I am looking forward to

> dipping into "Sun at Midnight," even though I'm

> a little suspect of Andrew Harvey for leaving

> his guru.

>

> In Amma's love,

> Jyotsna

 

 

Dear Jyotsna,

 

It has been a while since I read this book. I remember it as being a

case of the guru using him and then throwing him out when he had

served his purpose.... so a case of betrayal, abandonment....

Andrew, who had been the right-hand man for his guru for several

decades (?) knew all the secrets of guru groups. He decided to blow

the whistle so other westerners would not fall hook, line and sinker

for anyone who stands up and says he is a guru and asks you to trust

your experiences. Your experiences are just that, he says.

 

Most of Hinduism as it is practiced today is tantric - so a lot of

magic is passed off as divinity or God's energy. SO BEWARE, people.

 

What I am finding among many of Amma's devotees is that they are

faced with adversity, with challenges - health, wealth, relationship

etc. and feel that they can turn their lives over to Amma and let

her run it for them. In my opinion, it is a recipe for disaster and

westerners are more likely to be taken advantage off. The Hindus

themselves (I am not talking about expatriate Indians who I think

are as clueless as we are) but the Hindus living in India have the

social context in which to place the guru. They go to a guru for

advice but use their own discrimination, experience and judgement to

apply it to their lives unlike us westerners who have largely failed

to grasp the essence of the guru-disciple relationship and follow

blindly.

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:30:20 -0000, ons20022001 <ons20022001

wrote:

 

> What I am finding among many of Amma's devotees is that they are faced

> with adversity, with challenges - health, wealth, relationship etc. and

> feel that they can turn their lives over to Amma and let her run it for

> them. In my opinion, it is a recipe for disaster and westerners are more

> likely to be taken advantage off. The Hindus themselves (I am not talking

> about expatriate Indians who I think are as clueless as we are) but the

> Hindus living in India have the social context in which to place the

> guru. They go to a guru for advice but use their own discrimination,

> experience and judgement to apply it to their lives unlike us westerners

> who have largely failed to grasp the essence of the guru-disciple

> relationship and follow blindly.

 

Thank you! This has been a most valuable discussion, and now you've hit it

squarely on the head with this post.

 

What a seduction it must be for the guru him/herself - to have legions of

disciples ready to walk off a cliff (figuratively) to fulfill the guru's

vaguest whim! Even if the guru can withstand this temptation it often

happens that the people around the guru cannot. Hence the problems of

money, power, and sex. Certainly the lead must be with the guru, but the

disciple must live sensibly and take responsibility. The one does not

exclude the other - and that's cool with a true guru.

 

Pranams,

Ramlal

 

 

 

 

 

--

Aum Amriteshvaryai Namah!

[Guest guest]

> Namah Shivaya,

> My husband and I were both involved in Siddha Yoga

> for several years in the late '70s and erly '80s. We

> met Mother a

> long time ago.

>

> I believe that we all should use our discrimination.

> I have read the "leaving SY" web site and list In

> my opinion,

> there are no similarities between the SY and MA

> organizations or experience.

>

 

Anyone with half, or even 1/16th, of a brain should

steer clear of Gurumayi and the SYDA organization.

Comparing Gurumayi to Amma is like comparing a Yugo to

a Rolls Royce.

 

I've never met Gurumayi (they probably wouldn't let me

into the South Fallsburgh ashram even if I wanted to),

but I've read enough about her on the

leavingsiddhayoga.org site and in a New Yorker article

published in 1994 to convince me that SYDA is a

rotten, corrupt organization. I've met a number of

ex-SYDA devotees who weren't at all sorry to see the

last of Gurumayi. If Malti Shetty (aka

Gurumayi)claims to be a renunciate, why does she need

to dress like a fashion idol, with a collection of

hats that rivals Imelda Marco's shoe collection? What

a sham.

 

Keval

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I left SYDA yoga at about the time Gurumayi took over. Does this still

give me 1/16th of a brain, or do I get credit for a little more --- say

1/8th?

Prasadini

 

Mike Brooker wrote:

 

> > Namah Shivaya,

> > My husband and I were both involved in Siddha Yoga

> > for several years in the late '70s and erly '80s. We

> > met Mother a

> > long time ago.

> >

> > I believe that we all should use our discrimination.

> > I have read the "leaving SY" web site and list In

> > my opinion,

> > there are no similarities between the SY and MA

> > organizations or experience.

> >

>

> Anyone with half, or even 1/16th, of a brain should

> steer clear of Gurumayi and the SYDA organization.

> Comparing Gurumayi to Amma is like comparing a Yugo to

> a Rolls Royce.

>

> I've never met Gurumayi (they probably wouldn't let me

> into the South Fallsburgh ashram even if I wanted to),

> but I've read enough about her on the

> leavingsiddhayoga.org site and in a New Yorker article

> published in 1994 to convince me that SYDA is a

> rotten, corrupt organization. I've met a number of

> ex-SYDA devotees who weren't at all sorry to see the

> last of Gurumayi. If Malti Shetty (aka

> Gurumayi)claims to be a renunciate, why does she need

> to dress like a fashion idol, with a collection of

> hats that rivals Imelda Marco's shoe collection? What

> a sham.

>

> Keval

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Sponsor

[Click Here!]

 

>

> Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!

>

> Ammachi

>

>

>

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I went to South Fallsburgh with a Western meditation group I belonged to,

sometime in the late 1970s. Baba Muktananda (he was still alive back

then) initiated me into Shaktipat with a wink and a bop on the head with

a peacock feather. I was impressed with him.

 

More recently, here in Noo Yawk City, I went with a friend to a SYDA

celebration of Shiva Ratri. I found it significant that nowhere during

the public ritual was there a <Murthi> of Lord Shiva -- all the

devotionbal items were of Gurumayi. Gurumayi is a strikingly

good-looking woman, and her penchant for a wide assortment of hats can be

written off as part of her <leela>. Still, she has barely a fraction of

the charisma, presence, and shakti of our own chubby, plain-looking Amma.

 

I've also noticed that most of the SYDA functions are very expensive, and

they seem to aim for a well-heeled, Yuppie audience. All of Amma's

public functions are free, with contributions accepted, of course.

 

-- Len/ Kalipadma

 

 

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 06:51:02 -0700 (PDT) Mike Brooker

<patria1818 writes:

>

> Anyone with half, or even 1/16th, of a brain should

> steer clear of Gurumayi and the SYDA organization.

> Comparing Gurumayi to Amma is like comparing a Yugo to

> a Rolls Royce.

>

> I've never met Gurumayi (they probably wouldn't let me

> into the South Fallsburgh ashram even if I wanted to),

> but I've read enough about her on the

> leavingsiddhayoga.org site and in a New Yorker article

> published in 1994 to convince me that SYDA is a

> rotten, corrupt organization. I've met a number of

> ex-SYDA devotees who weren't at all sorry to see the

> last of Gurumayi. If Malti Shetty (aka

> Gurumayi)claims to be a renunciate, why does she need

> to dress like a fashion idol, with a collection of

> hats that rivals Imelda Marco's shoe collection? What

> a sham.

>

> Keval

>

 

 

______________

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[Guest guest]

I was under the impression that Andrew Harvey had fallen in love with a

man, and his Guru told him that homosexuality was unacceptable. This was

the primary reason Harvey and Mother Meera parted company.

 

-- Len/ Kalipadma

 

 

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:30:20 -0000 "ons20022001" <ons20022001

writes:

>

> It has been a while since I read this book. I remember it as being a

> case of the guru using him and then throwing him out when he had

> served his purpose.... so a case of betrayal, abandonment....

> Andrew, who had been the right-hand man for his guru for several

> decades (?) knew all the secrets of guru groups. He decided to blow

> the whistle so other westerners would not fall hook, line and sinker

> for anyone who stands up and says he is a guru and asks you to trust

> your experiences. Your experiences are just that, he says.

>

> Most of Hinduism as it is practiced today is tantric - so a lot of

> magic is passed off as divinity or God's energy. SO BEWARE, people.

>

 

______________

The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!

Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!

Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!