Guest guest Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Namah Shivaya. Who is a true Guru? Even more, who is YOUR true Guru? This is not an easy topic to understand / discuss. The best way of finding out a true Guru is to do a series of checks. First, 'check your own heart' to get a feel of how comfortable you are around a person Then, see if you enjoy being with the person. Next check if your mind quietens considerably (or fully) while in the presence of this person (regardless of whether he/she has been declared spiritually potent to be a Guru or not). Then, check to see if you feel a sense of deep peace. If these answers are yes, ask yourself if you will feel 'at home' with this person for the rest of your life. If you feel 'yes' to this too (the huger the feeling of 'yes' the better), you have found your guru. I would emphasize on internal indicators more than external ones. External indicators can be misleading.... a kind-looking figure may not be totally devoid of wants and desires, and vive-versa. (this is a big theme with many subtle points, and that can be explored across many posts, so this is all I will say here now). Intuition is the barometer. History has shown us that there are countless 'seemingly rascally' saint figures, but they have been proven to be genuine saints who used their own methods to teach their students. Many of them used swear words, or looked like they used to get very angry. It was upto the student to discern what was behind such 'spiritually socially shocking' gestures.... These masters didnt care if the students misunderstood them. But if they did understand their masters, then all the grace and love poured out on them. Sounds unfair? not really. The point they were making (in my perception) is of complete surrender. If the disciple had already accepted the master as their all-in-all, and could unflinchingly surrender to the crudest gestures that the master made, the disciple was worthy of the 'final initiation'. While it is very difficult to know who your true Guru is (and I should know because I had been shopping for a Guru for so many years), the difficult reality is that only you know who your Guru is, and that no one else can even remotely help you find him. The only entities that can help you find your guru are YOUR BURNING DESIRE for liberation, and your intuition. Jai Ma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Namah Shivaya. I do not see the relation between self-analysis and the tantrics' tactics that you talk about. It is pretty obvious that you feel enormously short-changed and betrayed with your experiences with Siddha Yoga. and I feel sorry for you, very much. But in your hurt, and may be because what I said reminds you of those times, I request that you do not confuse them both to be the same.... Intuition has nothing to do with being hypnotized..... In a way it has EVERYTHING to do with being hypnotized, but not in the way you described below. Also, to make it clearer, I have not said anything that is 'anti- Amma' in all this. I cannot think of making any statement like that. This is not about, or against, anyone. It is about the process (conscious or sub-conscious) that each one must go through while trying to find one's Guru. Remember that Sw. Vivekanada had once said: "We have only one purpose in life - to find our Guru. Once that is done, our minds must die, and the Guru's must take over". Jai Ma! Ammachi, "ons20022001" <ons20022001> wrote: > Dear Manoj: > > Thank you for your detailed check list of who a Guru is. I have > heard all of these in Siddha Yoga and other notorious groups I have > read about. > > The so-called inner experience is just that. Tantrics, and much of > Hinduism has become tantric, can simulate experiences for the > gullible and for those who not present in the here and now. They > tantric, con artist gurus use it to entrap people. > > With Baba Muktananda and Gurumayi, they would create magic in > people's lives - a job, a child, cure an illness, but they would do > it one by one to entrap. So people would follow them from program to > program in the hope of getting more. Finally, Baba and Gurumayi > would make it more and more difficult for these people to get those > goodies they were throwing at them. That is where a lot of people > felt entraped. They had spent or handed over all their money to > these con artists and had nothing for themselves. or Baba and > Gurumayi would simply create more and more trouble in their lives so > that they would always have a devotee base to do free labour, give > more money, make up the crowds we used to see in their ashrams.. > > > Ammachi, "manoj_menon" <manoj_menon> > wrote: > > Namah Shivaya. > > > > Who is a true Guru? Even more, who is YOUR true Guru? > > > > This is not an easy topic to understand / discuss. > > > > The best way of finding out a true Guru is to do a series of > checks. > > > > First, 'check your own heart' to get a feel of how comfortable you > > are around a person > > > > Then, see if you enjoy being with the person. > > > > Next check if your mind quietens considerably (or fully) while in > the > > presence of this person (regardless of whether he/she has been > > declared spiritually potent to be a Guru or not). > > > > Then, check to see if you feel a sense of deep peace. > > > > If these answers are yes, ask yourself if you will feel 'at home' > > with this person for the rest of your life. If you feel 'yes' to > this > > too (the huger the feeling of 'yes' the better), you have found > your > > guru. > > > > I would emphasize on internal indicators more than external ones. > > > > External indicators can be misleading.... a kind-looking figure > may > > not be totally devoid of wants and desires, and vive-versa. (this > is > > a big theme with many subtle points, and that can be explored > across > > many posts, so this is all I will say here now). > > > > Intuition is the barometer. > > > > History has shown us that there are countless 'seemingly rascally' > > saint figures, but they have been proven to be genuine saints who > > used their own methods to teach their students. > > > > Many of them used swear words, or looked like they used to get > very > > angry. It was upto the student to discern what was behind > > such 'spiritually socially shocking' gestures.... These masters > didnt > > care if the students misunderstood them. But if they did > understand > > their masters, then all the grace and love poured out on them. > > > > Sounds unfair? not really. The point they were making (in my > > perception) is of complete surrender. If the disciple had already > > accepted the master as their all-in-all, and could unflinchingly > > surrender to the crudest gestures that the master made, the > disciple > > was worthy of the 'final initiation'. > > > > While it is very difficult to know who your true Guru is (and I > > should know because I had been shopping for a Guru for so many > > years), the difficult reality is that only you know who your Guru > is, > > and that no one else can even remotely help you find him. > > > > The only entities that can help you find your guru are YOUR > BURNING > > DESIRE for liberation, and your intuition. > > > > Jai Ma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 ONS: It does look like you've had bitter experiences with that group. Lets all pray that Amma heals your deepest spiritual wounds. We do appreciate your letting us know about all that your former group did. But I for one, am getting tired of the unfair comparison and: 1. People using the term 'racial profiling' 2. People calling Amma's organization a cult. If westerners like to adopt Indian names and wear Indian clothes, to feel closer to Amma, why should anyone have a problem? If you dont want to do that, dont! What is wrong in asking Amma to hold our hands as we wander aimlessly through life? If you dont want to do that, dont! If you dont see Amma as your Guru, who says you have to? If you dont feel like surrendering to Her, who says you have to? You can just see Her as a gentle, loving soul who loves the world with a passion. Jai Ma, Ravi ps: Why do you go to see Amma? Are you afraid that She will solve your problems and then, you'd have to come back to surrender your worldly treasures and do other work for Her organization? Puleezzz :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 The term ³cult² doesn¹t necessarily have a pejorative connotation, but it usually does. cult (kult) Pronunciation Key n. 1. > a. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or > false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the > guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader. > b. The followers of such a religion or sect. 2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual. 3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual. 4. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease. 5. > a. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, > principle, or thing. > b. The object of such devotion. 6. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest. [Latin cultus, worship, from past participle of colere, to cultivate. See kwel-1 in Indo-European Roots.]cul?tic or cult?ish adj. cult?ism n. cult?ist n. on 8/19/03 10:29 PM, Ravishankar Krishnan at ravkris wrote: > ONS: > It does look like you've had bitter experiences with > that group. Lets all pray that Amma heals your deepest > spiritual wounds. We do appreciate your letting us > know about all that your former group did. But I for > one, am getting tired of the unfair comparison and: > 1. People using the term 'racial profiling' > 2. People calling Amma's organization a cult. > > If westerners like to adopt Indian names and wear > Indian clothes, to feel closer to Amma, why should > anyone have a problem? If you dont want to do that, > dont! > > What is wrong in asking Amma to hold our hands as we > wander aimlessly through life? If you dont want to do > that, dont! > > If you dont see Amma as your Guru, who says you have > to? If you dont feel like surrendering to Her, who > says you have to? You can just see Her as a gentle, > loving soul who loves the world with a passion. > > Jai Ma, > Ravi > > ps: Why do you go to see Amma? Are you afraid that She > will solve your problems and then, you'd have to come > back to surrender your worldly treasures and do other > work for Her organization? Puleezzz :-) > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > <http://rd./M=251812.3170658.4537139.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705075991 > :HM/A=1693353/R=0/SIG=11t71ok4g/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60178294& > partid=3170658> > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > Ammachi > > > Terms of Service > <> . -- Rick Archer SearchSummit 1108 South B Street Fairfield, IA 52556 Phone: 641-472-9336 Fax: 305-425-2820 http://searchsummit.com rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Cult comes from the word "culture", something that has common shared "x", if it were a petri dish, it would be cells, if it's a religion, then there are ideas that are shared or a common enlightened being. The danger here is when someone adopts ideas that are just accepted and not scientifically tested in the laboratory of yourself. Where you just believe something is correct, whether it's an idea, custom or way of talking, thinking or any unexamined anything. Of course if it's beyond your capacity to understand, such as what is the state of enlightenment, then of course we have to have faith, but we also want to keep our discrimination and not think with someone else's thoughts. Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote: > The term ³cult² doesn¹t necessarily have a pejorative connotation, but it > usually does. > > cult (kult) Pronunciation Key > n. > > 1. > > a. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or > > false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the > > guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader. > > b. The followers of such a religion or sect. > 2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual. > 3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony > and ritual. > 4. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to > have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease. > 5. > > a. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, > > principle, or thing. > > b. The object of such devotion. > 6. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or > intellectual interest. > > > [Latin cultus, worship, from past participle of colere, to cultivate. See > kwel-1 in Indo-European Roots.]cul?tic or cult?ish adj. > cult?ism n. > cult?ist n. > > > > > on 8/19/03 10:29 PM, Ravishankar Krishnan at ravkris wrote: > > > ONS: > > It does look like you've had bitter experiences with > > that group. Lets all pray that Amma heals your deepest > > spiritual wounds. We do appreciate your letting us > > know about all that your former group did. But I for > > one, am getting tired of the unfair comparison and: > > 1. People using the term 'racial profiling' > > 2. People calling Amma's organization a cult. > > > > If westerners like to adopt Indian names and wear > > Indian clothes, to feel closer to Amma, why should > > anyone have a problem? If you dont want to do that, > > dont! > > > > What is wrong in asking Amma to hold our hands as we > > wander aimlessly through life? If you dont want to do > > that, dont! > > > > If you dont see Amma as your Guru, who says you have > > to? If you dont feel like surrendering to Her, who > > says you have to? You can just see Her as a gentle, > > loving soul who loves the world with a passion. > > > > Jai Ma, > > Ravi > > > > ps: Why do you go to see Amma? Are you afraid that She > > will solve your problems and then, you'd have to come > > back to surrender your worldly treasures and do other > > work for Her organization? Puleezzz :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > <http://rd./M=251812.3170658.4537139.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17 05075991 > > :HM/A=1693353/R=0/SIG=11t71ok4g/*http://www.netflix.com/Default? mqso=60178294& > > partid=3170658> > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > > > Ammachi > > > > > > Terms of Service > > <> . > > > -- > Rick Archer > SearchSummit > 1108 South B Street > Fairfield, IA 52556 > Phone: 641-472-9336 > Fax: 305-425-2820 > > http://searchsummit.com > rick@s... > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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