Cultish behavior vs. Independence- conversation with Amma, Santa Fe summer 2003.

[Guest guest]

namah Shivaya folks,

 

A person who is not a SatGuru may try to increase his fan-following , and

encourage slavish dependence on himself . But Amma encourages people to rely on

themselves and their self effort . Regd this I want to repeat here a

conversation between my friend and Amma in Santa Fe during Devi bhava.. ( i dont

remember Amma's exact words, but shall try to write the gist of what Amma said).

 

 

In a recent conversation between AMMA and a friend of mine, Amma said that

SHE will NOT try to force anyone to come to Her . In fact Amma said something

like:

 

" Havent people left the ashram after so many years? Did I try to bring them

back? I am not attached to anyone- Each one should put forth effort and follow

his path . Amma will not try to bring anyone to Her or force anyone who wants to

leave to stay".

 

Amma went on to say " If we press a sponge down under the water, after we

remove our hands, the sponge will bounce back oustide. If I try to force anyone

into the spiritual path, it will be like that. BUT IF YOU ENTER THE SPIRITUAL

PATH OF YOUR OWN ACCORD, THEN YOU WILL BE LIKE A STONE- you will not need an

external force and you will not come out of the water."

 

My friend then asked " Amma but You will help us wont you ?"

 

Amma replied " Daughter- You have to make effort first . Then Amma will help. .

The Guru is there to help, BUT YOU HAVE TO PUT FORTH EFFORT"

 

My friend was dissapointed that Amma didnt say something like "dont worry I

will take care of everything " but rather stressed on the need for the disciple

to grow independently.

 

I think this again reveals the nature of a SatGuru like Amma - A Satguru like

Amma may tolerate some amount of emotional dependence in the beginning , but as

the disciple matures will teach the disciple to be Independent and Free and rely

on the disciple's own Inner Self .

 

This is not just words, but over the years, seeing Amma and talking to Her

Swamis have shown me that the closer you go to Her the hotter it gets- the

Swamis take a lot of 'ego crushing ' , tests from Her . Far from encouraging

anyone to maintain slavish dependence, Amma uses the disciple's surrender as a

'permission' to start working on their ego- and when that starts, the disciple

is taken to the point when Her relies on his inner Self and finds peace within .

 

more later,

 

Jai ma

 

bala

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Ammachi, balakrishnan Shankar

<balakrishnan_sh> wrote:

 

 

 

Dear Bala,

 

This is really a great explanation. Thanks for writing about it here.

And I've also heard that Amma likes us to make our own decisions as

much as possible instead of always asking her what we should do, etc.

After all, we need to develop discrimination, etc. So Amma often

tells us, "You decide", when she is asked a question.

 

I find that it is practically enough for me to come and sit by Amma's

side without asking her any questions. I feel a lot of peace and

shakti in this way. I do admit my first guru was Baba Muktananda and

I, personally, gained a lot during my sadhana with him, though

everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have heard that even Amma

has said some very good things regarding him. I suppose each one of

us has a different sadhana depending on our karmas and samskaras. If

Amma can show me how to rely on the Great Self within and surrender

to that as you suggest, Bala , and I feel she is doing this, then

this is the path for me!

 

Lisa

 

 

 

Lisa

>

> namah Shivaya folks,

>

> A person who is not a SatGuru may try to increase his fan-

following , and encourage slavish dependence on himself . But Amma

encourages people to rely on themselves and their self effort . Regd

this I want to repeat here a conversation between my friend and Amma

in Santa Fe during Devi bhava.. ( i dont remember Amma's exact words,

but shall try to write the gist of what Amma said).

>

>

> In a recent conversation between AMMA and a friend of mine, Amma

said that SHE will NOT try to force anyone to come to Her . In fact

Amma said something like:

>

> " Havent people left the ashram after so many years? Did I try to

bring them back? I am not attached to anyone- Each one should put

forth effort and follow his path . Amma will not try to bring anyone

to Her or force anyone who wants to leave to stay".

>

> Amma went on to say " If we press a sponge down under the water,

after we remove our hands, the sponge will bounce back oustide. If I

try to force anyone into the spiritual path, it will be like that.

BUT IF YOU ENTER THE SPIRITUAL PATH OF YOUR OWN ACCORD, THEN YOU

WILL BE LIKE A STONE- you will not need an external force and you

will not come out of the water."

>

> My friend then asked " Amma but You will help us wont you ?"

>

> Amma replied " Daughter- You have to make effort first . Then Amma

will help. . The Guru is there to help, BUT YOU HAVE TO PUT FORTH

EFFORT"

>

> My friend was dissapointed that Amma didnt say something

like "dont worry I will take care of everything " but rather stressed

on the need for the disciple to grow independently.

>

> I think this again reveals the nature of a SatGuru like Amma - A

Satguru like Amma may tolerate some amount of emotional dependence in

the beginning , but as the disciple matures will teach the disciple

to be Independent and Free and rely on the disciple's own Inner Self .

>

> This is not just words, but over the years, seeing Amma and

talking to Her Swamis have shown me that the closer you go to Her the

hotter it gets- the Swamis take a lot of 'ego crushing ' , tests from

Her . Far from encouraging anyone to maintain slavish dependence,

Amma uses the disciple's surrender as a 'permission' to start working

on their ego- and when that starts, the disciple is taken to the

point when Her relies on his inner Self and finds peace within .

>

> more later,

>

> Jai ma

>

> bala

>

>

>

>