Guest guest Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 on 8/23/03 1:39 AM, Dianadevi at Dianadevi wrote: > snip > > I believe that Amma is an avatar. I also believe with conviction that The Beatles collectively were an avatar. Snip I wonder if you can say the Beatles (or Jonas Salk, Mozart, Albert Einstein, Martin Luther King, etc.) were Avatars, or rather that they were gifted souls born to accomplish a specific task (or with the potential to accomplish that task). Using the term loosely, we¹re all Avatars, in the sense that we reflect a certain percentage of God¹s light. But strictly speaking, isn¹t the term Avatar reserved for someone like Amma who is born Self-realized and reflects God¹s light very fully? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote: Isn¹t the term Avatar reserved for someone like Amma who is born > Self-realized and reflects God¹s light very fully? > In the book and chapter below, it says that Amma's enlightenment occurred when she was 22. >From The Path of the Mother Part One: Getting to Know the Mother "Ammachi" http://www.pathofthemother.com/excerpts5.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 - Rick Archer Ammachi Saturday, August 23, 2003 4:56 PM Avatars Rick, I agree completely with your response to Snip: it's my understanding that an avatar is a fully realized "entity" for lack of a better word. Christ, Buddha, Amma...these are my conceptions of avatars as they have 1) incarnated by choice 2) have a specific task/purpose for the incarnation 3) have physical bodies that do not always adhere to the conventions of human physical requirements (Amma's eating habits as discussed recently and her body's diabetes-physically, her diabetes should preclude sitting so long without food/water or bathroom breaks!). 4) are at birth, or become (as with Christ and Buddha) fully awakened/realized - I may be wrong, but I learned that Christ did not "come into" his full divinity until after his baptism by John. Amma seems to have been borned enlightened. Another interesting note: in the autobiography by Judith Cornell, written with Mother's approval, Judith states that she directly asked Mother if She IS the Sri Yantra (a mathematically based symbol of Devi) and Mother responded "Yes, yes, yes." And, without raising any tempers, (PLEASE DON"T TAKE OFFENSE!), I've been receiving Self-Realization lessons from Paramahansa Yogananda's organization for a long time now, (Amma greatly respected him), and a recent lesson commented - without naming names - that only those souls who still maintain even a minimal level of violence within their natures will ever die violent deaths. This, to me, would preclude Martin Luther King from being an avatar if nothing else did - I truly feel he was a great man with the noblest of human natures, but human, indeed, I think he remained. And, as a sixties child, I adored the Beatles and their music can still move me to tears, but - world changers, yes; avatars, no. My thoughts only. Namaste, Dixie on 8/23/03 1:39 AM, Dianadevi at Dianadevi wrote: > snip > > I believe that Amma is an avatar. I also believe with conviction that The Beatles collectively were an avatar. Snip I wonder if you can say the Beatles (or Jonas Salk, Mozart, Albert Einstein, Martin Luther King, etc.) were Avatars, or rather that they were gifted souls born to accomplish a specific task (or with the potential to accomplish that task). Using the term loosely, we¹re all Avatars, in the sense that we reflect a certain percentage of God¹s light. But strictly speaking, isn¹t the term Avatar reserved for someone like Amma who is born Self-realized and reflects God¹s light very fully? Sponsor Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 - Don James Ammachi Saturday, August 23, 2003 6:47 PM Re: Avatars Don, Now that I think abvout it, I suspect you're right: Amma was born with the dark blue skin, etc of Sri Krishna, but I do recall that she had quite a high fever, etc as she became enlightened and that did occur later. I guess I was recalling having read somewhere that Amma understood the world to be somewhat of a drama/play and therefore was born smiling. My goof. Namaste, Dixie Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote: Isn¹t the term Avatar reserved for someone like Amma who is born > Self-realized and reflects God¹s light very fully? > In the book and chapter below, it says that Amma's enlightenment occurred when she was 22. From The Path of the Mother Part One: Getting to Know the Mother "Ammachi" http://www.pathofthemother.com/excerpts5.html Sponsor Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 I believe she said she was born Self-realized, but fully realized God at the age of 22. on 8/23/03 5:47 PM, Don James at djames wrote: > Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote: > > Isn¹t the term Avatar reserved for someone like Amma who is born >> > Self-realized and reflects God¹s light very fully? >> > > In the book and chapter below, it says that Amma's enlightenment > occurred when she was 22. > > From The Path of the Mother > Part One: Getting to Know the Mother > "Ammachi" > > http://www.pathofthemother.com/excerpts5.html > -- Rick Archer SearchSummit 1108 South B Street Fairfield, IA 52556 Phone: 641-472-9336 Fax: 305-425-2820 http://searchsummit.com rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 I think in the strict sense, and avatar is God in a human form - i.e. all the incarnations of Krishna. --- Rick Archer <rick wrote: > on 8/23/03 1:39 AM, Dianadevi at > Dianadevi wrote: > > > snip > > > > I believe that Amma is an avatar. I also believe > with conviction that The > Beatles collectively were an avatar. > > Snip > > I wonder if you can say the Beatles (or Jonas Salk, > Mozart, Albert Einstein, > Martin Luther King, etc.) were Avatars, or rather > that they were gifted > souls born to accomplish a specific task (or with > the potential to > accomplish that task). Using the term loosely, we¹re > all Avatars, in the > sense that we reflect a certain percentage of God¹s > light. But strictly > speaking, isn¹t the term Avatar reserved for someone > like Amma who is born > Self-realized and reflects God¹s light very fully? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2003 Report Share Posted August 24, 2003 > "only those souls who still maintain even a minimal level of > violence within their natures will ever die violent deaths." This is quite debatable. Mahatma Gandhi (who was an apostle of non- violence) died a violent death. Ramana Maharishi once mentioned that Gandhi was enlightened towards the end of his life. Lord Krishna was also killed by an hunter's arrow. Jesus Christ was crucified. There are probably hundreds of instances of sages dying a violent death. -bidu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2003 Report Share Posted August 24, 2003 Namah Shivaya There is a term for beings , remarkable in their scope, who affect the world in a good way and become instruments for God's work - they are called 'vibhutis'- ( partial manifestations, you could say). Sri Aurobindo says Swami Vivekananda was a vibhuti of Lord Shiva . Similarly other remarkable beings can be there who affect the world and are temporarily instruments of the divine- but they need not be 'avatars'. The word avatar is used, in a strict sense to those who are born enlightened, who are born of their own will, who are a direct manifestation of God for a specific purpose. Amma , i beleive, falls in this category. bala Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2003 Report Share Posted August 24, 2003 Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote:Isn¹t the term Avatar reserved for someone like Amma who is born> Self-realized and reflects God¹s light very fully? > In the book and chapter below, it says that Amma's enlightenmentoccurred when she was 22.From The Path of the MotherPart One: Getting to Know the Mother"Ammachi" that sense, neither Christ, nor Budha can be called Avatars, as they supposedly attained complete identification with the supreme much later in life. As far as I can understand, only Lord Krishna was fully aware of his divinity right from birth. I feel Avatar is a subjective term and refers to the extent of manifestation of divinity by a self-realized soul (or as Rick put it, to the extent they can reflect God's light) RATHER than the complete awareness of self-divinity right from birth. In that sense, I would say that Amma is the greatest Avatar as yet (just my opinion), since never before has there been a being who has reached out to millions in such a fashion even during their lifetime. As Tim Conway puts it in 'Women of Power and Grace', "Amma is perhaps the greatest phenomenon to have walked the planet" (not verbatim). ---Sri Ramakrishna says that when God incarnates, he/she self- creates a very thin veil as it were, for himself/herself. Such people are aware of the unreality of the worldly existence right from birth, and strive to remove that thin veil. This is what I think occurs with people like Amma. If she didn't behave like a normal human being in the begening, it would be very difficult for us to relate with her. WE WOULD THINK that she cannot understand our problems, as she has always been self-realized (though in reality, SHE CAN RELATE WITH US irrespective of the way in which she comes to this world). But her manifestation of divinity has been unparalleled. Namah Shivaya Sundar Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!To from this group, send an email to:Ammachi- use of is subject to the __________ Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2003 Report Share Posted August 24, 2003 - bidu_xterra Ammachi Sunday, August 24, 2003 1:21 PM Re: Avatars Bidu, I agree; I simply wanted to share what had been said by Paramahansa Yogandanda. Dixie > "only those souls who still maintain even a minimal level of > violence within their natures will ever die violent deaths." This is quite debatable. Mahatma Gandhi (who was an apostle of non- violence) died a violent death. Ramana Maharishi once mentioned that Gandhi was enlightened towards the end of his life. Lord Krishna was also killed by an hunter's arrow. Jesus Christ was crucified. There are probably hundreds of instances of sages dying a violent death. -bidu Sponsor Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2003 Report Share Posted August 24, 2003 > As far as I can understand, only Lord Krishna was fully aware of > his divinity right from birth. Is not the term for such a being 'purna avatar' (fully realized from birth, and descended with a specific purpose), as opposed to being just an avatar? I know some Amma bhajans glorify Amma as 'purna avatar' also. That is a purely subjective thing, and each person may have a different opinion on that. Going by the strict definition of the term, Amma may not qualify for one, but who can argue with the passionate love and admiration of a devotee?!! . For him, She may very well be a purna avatar, and nothing is going to change that in his mind. But there should be no doubt in anyone's mind that Amma is atleast an Avatar... She has come with (or received) God's light in this lifetime, and She is doing a most wonderful job of spreading it... using the principle of motherhood. Jai Ma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2003 Report Share Posted August 24, 2003 I think that we as souls are all divine sparks, hanging out in the 3- dimensional "reality" but we are not all divine flames, like Amma. Avatar to me is a person/place/thing manifesting "God" in the world. I think Amma is the biggest flame I've ever seen yet my point with bringing in a semingly worldy entity like The Beatles to the table is this: Some people have trouble understanding how some devotees of Amma can see Her as divine. Some people may even find it disturbing, as Don innitially suggested.. and he is right. It can be viewed as cult of personality to non-devotees, the 'un-touched' let's say. My friend Doris sincerely worries why I "worship other human beings as God". My birth-mother never understood my relationship with Amma or Hinduism. If you grew up in the big occidental 3: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, then you may be fixed in the mindset that "God" spoke to us through Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed, and that the God-buck stops there. After M-J-M, there may have been holy persons, but most people having direct God experience were considered heretics, lunatics, and fanatics. So I'm speaking to that mindset and trying to broaden the boundaries of where people perceive "God" in the world. (am I making any sense LOL) That's why I mention the Beatle phenomenon as example of something that really truly gave me my first taste of Sri Krishna's glory. I don't know if anyone cares, but here's The American Heritage Dictionary's definition of avatar: av·a·tar (v-tär) n. 1. The incarnation of a Hindu deity, especially Vishnu, in human or animal form. 2. An embodiment, as of a quality or concept; an archetype: the very avatar of cunning. 3. A temporary manifestation or aspect of a continuing entity: occultism in its present avatar. [sanskrit avatra, descent (of a deity from heaven), avatar : ava, down + tarati, he crosses; see ter-2 in Indo-European Roots.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.