Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 I post on other forums and someone on another forum is using a statement someone on an SRF forum has put out as some sort of proof that casts Amma in a bad light. I'd like to have some information to counter him with, other than "you can't believe everything you hear". This person's arguments are rather convincing. Anyone with some facts so that I can give these people the truth that counters these allegation? http://pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwalrusfrm33.showMessage?topicID=62.topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:06:32 +0000, Don James <djames wrote: > I post on other forums and someone on another forum is using a > statement someone on an SRF forum has put out as some sort of proof > that casts Amma in a bad light. I'd like to have some information to > counter him with, other than "you can't believe everything you hear". > This person's arguments are rather convincing. Anyone with some facts > so that I can give these people the truth that counters these > allegation? > > http://pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwalrusfrm33.showMessage?topicID=62.topic Hi, Don -- This may be getting around - or maybe we're reading the same forums. And since they also quote and discuss our Ammachi list I assume they're reading here too (Hi, guys!) No matter. As to the SRF walrus board posts, I too would welcome some refutation. But note that they are all anonymous posts. Why? The author(s)aren't fearing ostracism or job loss. If it's true, why the anonymity? Unless and until these people come out of the closet I consider the allegations to be unfounded. So Amma has enemies. What else is new? People have tried to stab her using knives, there is no surprise that they would use words also. I know a lot of people who have visited Amma's work, some were born in India, some have returned many times. They certainly don't support any of these claims. Have any of our Ammachi list members been to India? I know some have, and some are soon to be on their way. What did you find there? How is the lodging, food, transportation? How are the orphans doing? PraNAms, Ramlal -- Aum Amriteshvaryai Namah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 I posted what you wrote on that forum (Sarlo's, not the SRF one). I should have asked you first if you minded, rather than just assuming. Sorry if you would have rather I hadn't. This guy is just a rumor monger and I told him so and why. He needed to hear that. People like that do damage to others without having any facts to back it up. I don't like writing things when I'm angry, but if he realizes his error..... Ammachi, Ramlal <conte@i...> wrote: > On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:06:32 +0000, Don James <djames@t...> > wrote: > > > I post on other forums and someone on another forum is using a > > statement someone on an SRF forum has put out as some sort of proof > > that casts Amma in a bad light. I'd like to have some information to > > counter him with, other than "you can't believe everything you hear". > > This person's arguments are rather convincing. Anyone with some facts > > so that I can give these people the truth that counters these > > allegation? > > > > http://pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwalrusfrm33.showMessage? topicID=62.topic > > Hi, Don -- > > This may be getting around - or maybe we're reading the same forums. And > since they also quote and discuss our Ammachi list I assume they're > reading here too (Hi, guys!) No matter. > > As to the SRF walrus board posts, I too would welcome some refutation. > > But note that they are all anonymous posts. Why? The author(s) aren't > fearing ostracism or job loss. If it's true, why the anonymity? Unless > and until these people come out of the closet I consider the allegations > to be unfounded. So Amma has enemies. What else is new? People have > tried to stab her using knives, there is no surprise that they would use > words also. > > I know a lot of people who have visited Amma's work, some were born in > India, some have returned many times. They certainly don't support any of > these claims. > > Have any of our Ammachi list members been to India? I know some have, and > some are soon to be on their way. What did you find there? How is the > lodging, food, transportation? How are the orphans doing? > > PraNAms, > > Ramlal > > -- > Aum Amriteshvaryai Namah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:51:41 +0000, Don James <djames wrote: > I posted what you wrote on that forum (Sarlo's, not the SRF one). I > should have asked you first if you minded, rather than just assuming. > Sorry if you would have rather I hadn't. This guy is just a rumor > monger and I told him so and why. He needed to hear that. People like > that do damage to others without having any facts to back it up. I > don't like writing things when I'm angry, but if he realizes his > error..... Hi, Don -- Quote me anytime - I'm honored to be quoted in a good cause. Regards, Ramlal > > > Ammachi, Ramlal <conte@i...> wrote: >> On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:06:32 +0000, Don James <djames@t...> >> wrote: >> >> > I post on other forums and someone on another forum is using a >> > statement someone on an SRF forum has put out as some sort of > proof >> > that casts Amma in a bad light. I'd like to have some information > to >> > counter him with, other than "you can't believe everything you > hear". >> > This person's arguments are rather convincing. Anyone with some > facts >> > so that I can give these people the truth that counters these >> > allegation? >> > >> > http://pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwalrusfrm33.showMessage? > topicID=62.topic >> >> Hi, Don -- >> >> This may be getting around - or maybe we're reading the same > forums. And >> since they also quote and discuss our Ammachi list I assume they're >> reading here too (Hi, guys!) No matter. >> >> As to the SRF walrus board posts, I too would welcome some > refutation. >> >> But note that they are all anonymous posts. Why? The author(s) > aren't >> fearing ostracism or job loss. If it's true, why the anonymity? > Unless >> and until these people come out of the closet I consider the > allegations >> to be unfounded. So Amma has enemies. What else is new? People > have >> tried to stab her using knives, there is no surprise that they > would use >> words also. >> >> I know a lot of people who have visited Amma's work, some were born > in >> India, some have returned many times. They certainly don't support > any of >> these claims. >> >> Have any of our Ammachi list members been to India? I know some > have, and >> some are soon to be on their way. What did you find there? How is > the >> lodging, food, transportation? How are the orphans doing? >> >> PraNAms, >> >> Ramlal >> >> -- >> Aum Amriteshvaryai Namah! > > > Sponsor > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > Ammachi > > > > > This message has been processed by Firetrust Benign. -- Aum Amriteshvaryai Namah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 Friends, anywhere you find someone doing so much good you will also find people wishing to knock them down. Jesus was called a fornicator by his enemies; of course someone like Amma will attract the same mud. But you see, she is ATTRACTING them because even in their heart of hearts they cannot deny what they see in her. That aside, it doesn't matter what they say. Each of you has a personal relationship with Amma that is untouchable by anyone but your own mind and heart. I wouldn't even answer these people; Amma even told her father not to try to fight off her attackers when they came to her in the early days. Honestly, if this were all true, exactly how is it she is enjoying all this wealth and empire with her busy schedule? It doesn't add up. With love, Gabriela --- Don James <djames wrote: > I post on other forums and someone on another forum > is using a > statement someone on an SRF forum has put out as > some sort of proof > that casts Amma in a bad light. I'd like to have > some information to > counter him with, other than "you can't believe > everything you hear". > This person's arguments are rather convincing. > Anyone with some facts > so that I can give these people the truth that > counters these > allegation? > > http://pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwalrusfrm33.showMessage?topicID=62.topic > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 Hi Don, Please be advised that the "SRF Walrus" site is actually an anti-SRF site, sponsored, no doubt, by the Ananda organization, which is virulently anti-SRF. The story I heard (from an Ananda member) is that the Ananda leader, Kriyananda (lascivious old man) tried to get a private audience with Amma and She refused him. After that he told his followers that he had stood in the back of the hall where she was giving darshan, and "I didn't feel anything," thereby giving them the impression that she was not the real thing. I reiterate that this is NOT an SRF site! Jyotsna --- Don James <djames wrote: > I post on other forums and someone on another forum > is using a > statement someone on an SRF forum has put out as > some sort of proof > that casts Amma in a bad light. I'd like to have > some information to > counter him with, other than "you can't believe > everything you hear". > This person's arguments are rather convincing. > Anyone with some facts > so that I can give these people the truth that > counters these > allegation? > > http://pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwalrusfrm33.showMessage?topicID=62.topic > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:13:07 -0700, E. Lamb <jyotsna2 wrote: > Hi Don, > > Please be advised that the "SRF Walrus" site is > actually an anti-SRF site, sponsored, no doubt, > by the Ananda organization, which is virulently > anti-SRF. <snip> I reiterate that this is NOT an SRF site! The point is well taken. But let's be careful now as necessity seems to have compelled us to tread close to the "danger waters" of guru bashing. I'm not particularly interested in matters related to Ananda or SRF or their troubles, but I'd like to see this discussion continue and if possible bring forth some approaches to answering the allegations against Amma. Regards, Ramlal -- Aum Amriteshvaryai Namah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 My only reply to anyone saying anything against Amma is : Go wear out your collarbones, neck and arms by hugging people night and day for 30 years. While doing this, talk to a thousand people every day answering questions and listening to their problems. In the process DO NOT SLEEP for more than half an hour a day. also do not eat anything for 15-20 hours at a stretch at times and ALWAYS SMILE . Then if a leper oozing pus comes by , hug him and LICK his wounds- and cure him. While doing all this, manage a hundred institutions , oversee hospitals and schools, initate people into mantras, build temples, oversee sanyasis and householders, and CLEAN SEPTIC TANKS AFTER GIVING 20 HOURS OF NON STOP darshan. If you can all do this, then come and say anything against Amma. If you cannot, then shut up. bala Ramlal <conte wrote: On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:13:07 -0700, E. Lamb wrote: > Hi Don, > > Please be advised that the "SRF Walrus" site is > actually an anti-SRF site, sponsored, no doubt, > by the Ananda organization, which is virulently > anti-SRF. I reiterate that this is NOT an SRF site! The point is well taken. But let's be careful now as necessity seems to have compelled us to tread close to the "danger waters" of guru bashing. I'm not particularly interested in matters related to Ananda or SRF or their troubles, but I'd like to see this discussion continue and if possible bring forth some approaches to answering the allegations against Amma. Regards, Ramlal -- Aum Amriteshvaryai Namah! Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 Thank you, Bala-ji. Some people say hugging 12-15 hours per day is not much of an accomplishment. Ha ha! Just try it sometime. When I was a Christian priest I had to shake hands and greet 500 people on Easter or Christmas. It took only 1/2 hour but when I was finished, I was so exhausted I had to lie down for two hours! Each person drained a little bit out of me - and all they wanted to do was say "Merry Christmas"! I am in awe seeing Amma's darshan. PraNAms, Ramlal On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:06:48 -0700, balakrishnan Shankar <balakrishnan_sh wrote: > My only reply to anyone saying anything against Amma is : > > Go wear out your collarbones, neck and arms by hugging people night and > day for > 30 years. > > While doing this, talk to a thousand people every day answering > questions and > listening to their problems. > > In the process DO NOT SLEEP for more than half an hour a day. > > also do not eat anything for 15-20 hours at a stretch at times and > ALWAYS SMILE > . > > Then if a leper oozing pus comes by , hug him and LICK his wounds- and > cure him. > > While doing all this, manage a hundred institutions , oversee hospitals > and > schools, initate people into mantras, build temples, oversee sanyasis and > householders, and CLEAN SEPTIC TANKS AFTER GIVING 20 HOURS OF NON STOP > darshan. > > If you can all do this, then come and say anything against Amma. > > If you cannot, then shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 Don, I'm afraid I too don't like the commercial nature of some of Amma's activities. But if it weren't for her world tours and her charities, I don't know if I would have gone to Amma. Here are some points to ponder about the specific points in the web article that you linked to. 1. According to my uncle who is a senior doctor at AIMS (he is NOT an Amma devotee) most of the patients he sees are poor. In fact, he told me, the hospital is running at a loss. When I myself went for treatment, even though blood tests were perhaps not cheap by Indian standards (I don't really know the competitive rates), they seemed reasonably priced and easily affordable for me. The doctor consultations were *very* cheap by any standards. My cousin who also worked there for a while had, like my uncle, grumbled about the administration, but she did mention to me that all patients were treated exactly the same once they were in the hospital. They also said that all the medical staff were very dedicated and worked long hours. This uncle and cousin also did not like the numerous Amma pictures and devotee atmosphere, but that is another story. 2. Yes, Amma does travel in a Mercedes or RV, but I think she is entitled to, considering the ridiculous hours she keeps. That may be her only luxury, if you can call it that -- she is after all under no obligation to travel tens of thousands of miles every year giving free darshan to people. 3. The cost of food is not higher for Westerners. The cost of food at the Western cafes is higher, but no-one has to eat there. The Indian food is available to anyone, as is the more expensive Western food. The Western food often uses expensive ingredients like cheese and imported herbs. I think Amma has an obligation to provide basic food cheaply for everyone, but charging extra for special food is fine. Westerners are rich by Indian standards -- I frankly don't see how anyone can argue that Western food should be provided in an Indian Ashram at Indian prices! (By the way, a typical dish in the Western cafe, such as Mexican rice, will cost you all of Rs. 20 (less that 50 US cents). 4. Some of us were discussing how the dinner at the San Ramon Ashram on Devi Bhava nights cost too much, and I presented the problem to Amma. I suggested that she lower the cost of the basic food and add the cost to the extra stuff like cookies and soft drinks. At the next Devi Bhava, the dinner price went back down to a reasonable value, and the dinner became a bit simpler. The fact is, the San Ramon Ashram has to run, and to hold free public programs does cost money. Amma told me that she is constantly looking for ways to cut wastage. There are an *awful* lot of poor people in the world. However much money you collect and donate to them, there will be still poor people. So unless Amma is stashing away the money or something, all the money is going towards charities. I hope that eventually the divine mother decides that her children have played enough with money, and to let loose the flood of abundance that she surely has tied up in her sari. Nandu >"Don James" <djames >Ammachi >Ammachi > False witness >Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:06:32 -0000 > >I post on other forums and someone on another forum is using a >statement someone on an SRF forum has put out as some sort of proof >that casts Amma in a bad light. I'd like to have some information to >counter him with, other than "you can't believe everything you hear". >This person's arguments are rather convincing. Anyone with some facts >so that I can give these people the truth that counters these >allegation? > >http://pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwalrusfrm33.showMessage?topicID=62.topic > _______________ Send and receive larger attachments with Hotmail Extra Storage. http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 Thank you, Nandu-ji, for this invaluable discussion from the perspective of someone familiar with the scene, and with relations who have been employed there. It is just what we need to counter the anonymous stories and baseless rhetoric contained in these posts. Regards, Ramlal On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:30:46 +0000, Vallath Nandakumar <vallathn wrote: > > Don, > I'm afraid I too don't like the commercial nature of some of Amma's > activities. But > if it weren't for her world tours and her charities, I don't know if I > would > have gone > to Amma. Here are some points to ponder about the specific points in the > web article that you linked to. > > 1. According to my uncle who is a senior doctor at AIMS (he is NOT an > Amma > devotee) most of the patients he sees are poor. In fact, he told me, the > hospital > is running at a loss. When I myself went for treatment, even though blood > tests > were perhaps not cheap by Indian standards (I don't really know the > competitive > rates), they seemed reasonably priced and easily affordable for me. The > doctor consultations were *very* cheap by any standards. > > My cousin who also worked there for a while had, like my uncle, grumbled > about the > administration, but she did mention to me that all patients were treated > exactly the > same once they were in the hospital. They also said that all the medical > staff were very dedicated > and worked long hours. This uncle and cousin also did not like the > numerous > Amma pictures and devotee atmosphere, but that is another story. > > 2. Yes, Amma does travel in a Mercedes or RV, but I think she is entitled > to, considering the > ridiculous hours she keeps. That may be her only luxury, if you can call > it > that -- she is > after all under no obligation to travel tens of thousands of miles every > year giving free darshan > to people. > > 3. The cost of food is not higher for Westerners. The cost of food at the > Western > cafes is higher, but no-one has to eat there. The Indian food is > available > to anyone, > as is the more expensive Western food. The Western food often uses > expensive > ingredients like cheese and imported herbs. > > I think Amma has an obligation to > provide basic food cheaply for everyone, but charging extra for special > food > is fine. Westerners > are rich by Indian standards -- I frankly don't see how anyone can argue > that Western > food should be provided in an Indian Ashram at Indian prices! (By the > way, > a typical dish > in the Western cafe, such as Mexican rice, will cost you all of Rs. 20 > (less > that 50 US cents). > > 4. Some of us were discussing how the dinner at the San Ramon Ashram on > Devi > Bhava > nights cost too much, and I presented the problem to Amma. I suggested > that > she > lower the cost of the basic food and add the cost to the extra stuff like > cookies and > soft drinks. At the next Devi Bhava, the dinner price went back down to a > reasonable > value, and the dinner became a bit simpler. > > The fact is, the San Ramon Ashram has to run, and to hold free public > programs does cost > money. Amma told me that she is constantly looking for ways to cut > wastage. > > There are an *awful* lot of poor people in the world. However much money > you collect and donate to them, there will be still poor people. So > unless > Amma is stashing away the > money or something, all the money is going towards charities. > > I hope that eventually the divine mother decides that her children have > played enough > with money, and to let loose the flood of abundance that she surely has > tied > up in > her sari. > > Nandu > >> "Don James" <djames >> Ammachi >> Ammachi >> False witness >> Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:06:32 -0000 >> >> I post on other forums and someone on another forum is using a >> statement someone on an SRF forum has put out as some sort of proof >> that casts Amma in a bad light. I'd like to have some information to >> counter him with, other than "you can't believe everything you hear". >> This person's arguments are rather convincing. Anyone with some facts >> so that I can give these people the truth that counters these >> allegation? >> >> http://pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwalrusfrm33.showMessage?topicID=62.topic >> > > _______________ > Send and receive larger attachments with Hotmail Extra Storage. > http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es > > > Sponsor > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > Ammachi > > > > > This message has been processed by Firetrust Benign. -- Aum Amriteshvaryai Namah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 Hi Gang, As an additional way of looking at the situation, I find that I have the dubious honor of being pretty sure I know the poster. I know for sure who the "man who did some consulting for AIMS" is, and suspect he and the poster may be one and the same. The reason I think that is that he is an excellent writer, and if you notice there is not one grammatical error or misspelling in the entire article. This is highly unusual on these kinds of boards. Anyway, this former devotee stayed at my house when we were both new Amma devotees, and I at his home in the Bay area. I liked him as a friend, but I had heard about his challenging Amma about the finances at AIMS and his general unhappiness with much of what he found in India on two separate trips there. Though I haven't talked to him in several years, but all I can say is that his conclusions are his own. When I think of all this, my heart tells me not to buy into it. He himself has problems, too. Sometimes it is easier to project imperfections outside ourselves rather than to look at our own problems. I say that very respectfully and humbly. As I've said before in this forum, all we can do is trust our hearts. I, too, dislike some of the money things around Amma, but I'm hoping she'll be patient with me and keep me ever in the center of Her Divine Will. Still at Her feet, Jyotsna --- Don James <djames wrote: > I post on other forums and someone on another forum > is using a > statement someone on an SRF forum has put out as > some sort of proof > that casts Amma in a bad light. I'd like to have > some information to > counter him with, other than "you can't believe > everything you hear". > This person's arguments are rather convincing. > Anyone with some facts > so that I can give these people the truth that > counters these > allegation? > > http://pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwalrusfrm33.showMessage?topicID=62.topic > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2003 Report Share Posted September 13, 2003 This post has been circulation around. The truth is, no one knows who actually wrote it, and some people are forwarding it without having any idea of the source. Having been to Amritapuri myself, I know that most of this imformation is skewed at best, inaccurate at worst. For example, the cost of the Ayurvedic treatments. They neglect to mention that it's for at least 6 weeks of treatment - I found few, if any places, in India that charged that little, and certainly nowhere here in the US charges that little for even a week, with the kind of treatments you get there in India. And the orphanage is so amazing. The children there are actually getting very nice accommodations by Indian standards. Most Indians in that area sleep on the floor. Clearly, the person who wrote it doesn't know much about Indian culture. I don't know about the Swami that this person talks about. But considering that most of the rest of the post is incredible, I have serious doubts about the validity of that. And of course there is food for sale at the ashram - how else do you expect the ashram to be able to afford to feed the 10,000 devotees that come in on her darshan days? Blessings, Achintya - <Ammachi> <Ammachi> Saturday, September 13, 2003 1:09 AM Digest Number 934 > Message: 1 > Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:06:32 -0000 > "Don James" <djames > False witness > > I post on other forums and someone on another forum is using a > statement someone on an SRF forum has put out as some sort of proof > that casts Amma in a bad light. I'd like to have some information to > counter him with, other than "you can't believe everything you hear". > This person's arguments are rather convincing. Anyone with some facts > so that I can give these people the truth that counters these > allegation? > > http://pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwalrusfrm33.showMessage?topicID=62.topic > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2003 Report Share Posted September 13, 2003 I "vouch" for Jyotsna devi, she is just telling it as is, not making accusations. There is a lot of funk between the "organizations" of SRF and Ananda and probably a million other groups. it's all just pointless stupidites and we should just regard it a such and stay above and beyond it. I had a crazy neighbor in my apartment building who accused me of "chasing her man" when Devi and I know that the only man ever born who I chase after is Lord Krishna. I was a single young woman living alone and a perfect target for this type of insanity. I was raised to be modest and respectful, in an Albanian family where Islamic culture is a yardstick and I don't even fraternize with the opposite sex the way normal American's would! this woman harassed me badly making me sneak around and monitor my movements in and around my home just to avoid her and her fat unattractive man! I use my back door, picked up my mail at 5:00am, took my laundry to a friend's so as to avoid trouble. If she saw me she'd yell "Slut" and many other equally disgusting epithets and dialogs - looking for a fight. One day I was doing japa when a rock came crashing at my window and the shout "SLUT" came hurling in after it. It was the last straw. I called the police and with an anger I could no longer suppress I went to her apartment with the detectives and she was stunned and afraid for a change. She admitted what she had done and was trying to tell the police that she had to do it because I was "after her man" (her man, the shadow of shadows, never even came to the door!!). The police laid into her and let her know she better leave me alone or she was going to jail, then one of the officers handed me his card and said "if you have any trouble call this number, we'll lock her up" (scare tactics style ) he he). She never bothered me again but as I passed her at the mailboxes later on she spit towards me. Then there came a new tenant, a young single woman, and the whole thing repeated with the new tenant until finally the weirdos moved out a few months later. Don and all, the weirdos are everywhere. Why bother with these fools? don't even play with them unless you enjoy that company. If you saw the lady call me a slut would you say "Oh that woman in apt. 5 is a slut" or would you say "Hmm, the accuser is crazy" or would you know that you did not know enough to make an opinion until you knew more? Let them go on in their folly and have fun as they will, their consciousness alone can guide their behavior. Does any of this matter at all in the big scheme of things? And who should devote time and care for one million message boards and apartment building soap operas? I'd rather do sadhana and weed my own garden! As for us Amma devotees, hopefully we don't waste our time and our energies slagging off others and contemplating falsities and stupidities of the world.. the big subjective, idiot, genius moving, changing world!!! We've really got better stuff to do, especially with Ammachi as our example!!! As for Amma, the proof is in the pudding, anyone who has a mind to think and eyes to see will figure out for themselves. One day all the jivas will wake up and be fully ripe and delicious before God amen! Jai Ma!! In a message dated 9/13/03 4:10:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Ammachi writes: << Message: 11 Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:35:02 -0500 Ramlal <conte Re: False witness On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:13:07 -0700, E. Lamb <jyotsna2 wrote: > Hi Don, > > Please be advised that the "SRF Walrus" site is > actually an anti-SRF site, sponsored, no doubt, > by the Ananda organization, which is virulently > anti-SRF. <snip> I reiterate that this is NOT an SRF site! The point is well taken. But let's be careful now as necessity seems to have compelled us to tread close to the "danger waters" of guru bashing. I'm not particularly interested in matters related to Ananda or SRF or their troubles, but I'd like to see this discussion continue and if possible bring forth some approaches to answering the allegations against Amma. Regards, Ramlal >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2003 Report Share Posted September 13, 2003 And another thing: I work at a Jewish temple. There is constant complaining about money and where it should go, but the fact of the matter is if there is a congregation and they want a temple and a school, then the congragation has to cough up the bread to operate a temple and a school and a building. The City of Miami Beach said " you need a new roof" and so we said to the congragation "you've got to buy a new roof". Badabing bada boom! Cry all the way to the bank but if you want a temple then get that checkbook out! And the Rabbis and staff who serve the community and teach the children all have to earn a living wage. Nobody who works at my temple is getting fat or rich, but we could be if we were working for Halliburton! Jai Ma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2003 Report Share Posted September 13, 2003 I just tuned into this discussion, and am much less experienced with Amma than many of you, but here are a couple of revealing incidents from Amma's first visit to Fairfield: 1) Some local devotees donated the money to charter two small planes to fly Amma and her swamis from Chicago to Fairfield, so they wouldn't have to drive 5 hours after being up all night for Devi Bhava. When Amma discovered these plans, she became angry and said that the money should be used to help the poor rather than being squandered on her comfort. (She could fly from city to city in India too, and rest while waiting for those driving to catch up. Instead she drives with them, albeit in a Mercedes or RV.) 2) My wife helped fix up Amma's room here. She had a nice comfy bed. She threw her blankets on the hardwood floor and slept there, saying "Why should I be so comfortable while so many in the world are suffering." She didn't do this to impress anyone. There were only one or two people in the room when she did it and no attempt was made to publicize the story. on 9/12/03 9:17 PM, Ramlal at conte wrote: > Thank you, Nandu-ji, for this invaluable discussion from the perspective > of someone familiar with the scene, and with relations who have been > employed there. It is just what we need to counter the anonymous stories > and baseless rhetoric contained in these posts. > > Regards, > Ramlal -- Rick Archer 1108 South B Street Fairfield, IA 52556 Phone: 641-472-9336 Fax: 305-425-2820 http://searchsummit.com rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2003 Report Share Posted September 13, 2003 on 9/12/03 10:57 PM, E. Lamb at jyotsna2 wrote: > snip > > I, too, dislike some of the > money things around Amma, but I'm hoping she'll > be patient with me and keep me ever in the center > of Her Divine Will. > If you dislike money things around Amma, you should see the TM Movement. Hundreds of millions of dollars are raised and never accounted for. There is credible evidence that much of it is misappropriated by Maharishi¹s family. Those of us with a TM background now with Amma often contrast the two organizations. Amma does so much with so little by comparison with any organization I¹m familiar with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2003 Report Share Posted September 14, 2003 Ammachi, Dianadevi@a... wrote: As for us Amma devotees, hopefully we > don't waste our time and our energies slagging off others and contemplating > falsities and stupidities of the world.. the big subjective, idiot, genius > moving, changing world!!! We've really got better stuff to do, especially with > Ammachi as our example!!! As for Amma, the proof is in the pudding, anyone who has > a mind to think and eyes to see will figure out for themselves. One day all > the jivas will wake up and be fully ripe and delicious before God amen! Thank you for this, I have been thinking about it today. And I could really relate to the troubles you had with the woman in the apartment block, since I have had similar troubles before with people who seem to have nothing better to do than go looking for trouble. Focusing on what really matters is the key, but sometimes a real challenge, and one well worth the work. jaya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2003 Report Share Posted September 14, 2003 Jai Bala: > My only reply to anyone saying anything against Amma is : > > <snip> > > If you can all do this, then come and say anything against Amma. > > If you cannot, then shut up. I loved this! Thanks for posting it. Om Amriteshwariyai Namaha! Kandar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 > > > If you dislike money things around Amma, you should > see the TM Movement. > Hundreds of millions of dollars are raised and never > accounted for. There is > credible evidence that much of it is misappropriated > by Maharishi¹s family. > In the Netherlands, where he's been holed up for years, Maharishi literally has a license to print money! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2730121.stm Keval (still looking to find a "raam" bill in my change!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote: > I just tuned into this discussion, and am much less experienced > with Amma than many of you, but here are a couple of revealing > incidents from Amma's first visit to Fairfield: > > 1) Some local devotees donated the money to charter two small > planes to fly Amma and her swamis from Chicago to Fairfield, > so they wouldn't have to drive 5 hours after being up all night > for Devi Bhava. When Amma discovered these plans, she became > angry and said that the money should be used to help the poor > rather than being squandered on her comfort. (She could fly > from city to city in India too, and rest while waiting for > those driving to catch up. Instead she drives with them, albeit > in a Mercedes or RV.) Does a similar policy apply to her transoceanic travels? I.e., does Amma and her entourage fly cattle class with the hoi polloi on a commercial carrier? Or do they fly in First Class or charter a jet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 on 9/15/03 10:09 AM, John Stanley at johnny_tesla wrote: > Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote: >> > I just tuned into this discussion, and am much less experienced >> > with Amma than many of you, but here are a couple of revealing >> > incidents from Amma's first visit to Fairfield: >> > >> > 1) Some local devotees donated the money to charter two small >> > planes to fly Amma and her swamis from Chicago to Fairfield, >> > so they wouldn't have to drive 5 hours after being up all night >> > for Devi Bhava. When Amma discovered these plans, she became >> > angry and said that the money should be used to help the poor >> > rather than being squandered on her comfort. (She could fly >> > from city to city in India too, and rest while waiting for >> > those driving to catch up. Instead she drives with them, albeit >> > in a Mercedes or RV.) > > Does a similar policy apply to her transoceanic travels? I.e., does > Amma and her entourage fly cattle class with the hoi polloi on a > commercial carrier? Or do they fly in First Class or charter a jet? > Amma and her top swamis usually fly first class, but it¹s my understanding that all of her tickets are acquired with frequent flyer miles donated by devotees. Considering the physical discomfort she endures in her long darshans, I don¹t begrudge her any comfort she accepts elsewhere. But she doesn¹t accept much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 It definitely is a commercial airliner. It could be first class or economy, I am not sure of that. The only question I would have for all is: Does it really matter even if it is first class? That perhaps is the only time she gets to spend some rest. It had as well be a little bit more comfy. I have heard that she does not get much rest even there; even pilots have come to her requesting her darshan! Does a mother ever rest? Can she ever stop being a mother. Jai Ma! Ammachi, "John Stanley" <johnny_tesla> wrote: > Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote: > > I just tuned into this discussion, and am much less experienced > > with Amma than many of you, but here are a couple of revealing > > incidents from Amma's first visit to Fairfield: > > > > 1) Some local devotees donated the money to charter two small > > planes to fly Amma and her swamis from Chicago to Fairfield, > > so they wouldn't have to drive 5 hours after being up all night > > for Devi Bhava. When Amma discovered these plans, she became > > angry and said that the money should be used to help the poor > > rather than being squandered on her comfort. (She could fly > > from city to city in India too, and rest while waiting for > > those driving to catch up. Instead she drives with them, albeit > > in a Mercedes or RV.) > > Does a similar policy apply to her transoceanic travels? I.e., does > Amma and her entourage fly cattle class with the hoi polloi on a > commercial carrier? Or do they fly in First Class or charter a jet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote: >Amma and her top swamis usually fly first class, but it¹s my >understanding that all of her tickets are acquired with frequent >flyer miles donated by devotees. Considering the physical >discomfort she endures in her long darshans, I don¹t begrudge her >any comfort she accepts elsewhere. But she doesn¹t accept much. Dear Rick: A lot of us work very hard for much less. A grocery store clerk, for example, has to STAND for 8-10 hours on the job then go for a second job and/or go home and take care of the family. While I don't begrudge Amma or any human being anything, let's keep things in perspective. Amma must surely be getting a portion of the donations the organization is making. Would anyone know what it is? The last time a friend tried to transfer her frequent flyer miles to me she was told it wasn't allowed. Are there particular airlines or flights that allow you to do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 Yes, there are many airlines that allow you to transfer miles. Some don't officially allow it, but it is still possible. You can also buy tickets you earn on your credit card for other people. I used to do it all the time as an assistant in an office... I used the boss's flyer miles from his credit card to buy tickets for his employees all the time. Many airlines also let you "bump up" to first class at the last minute at no charge. We were often able to do that as well. --- markasme <markasme wrote: > Ammachi, Rick Archer > <rick@s...> wrote: > >Amma and her top swamis usually fly first class, > but it¹s my > >understanding that all of her tickets are acquired > with frequent > >flyer miles donated by devotees. Considering the > physical > >discomfort she endures in her long darshans, I > don¹t begrudge her > >any comfort she accepts elsewhere. But she doesn¹t > accept much. > > > Dear Rick: > > A lot of us work very hard for much less. A grocery > store clerk, for > example, has to STAND for 8-10 hours on the job then > go for a second > job and/or go home and take care of the family. > While I don't > begrudge Amma or any human being anything, let's > keep things in > perspective. Amma must surely be getting a portion > of the donations > the organization is making. Would anyone know what > it is? > > The last time a friend tried to transfer her > frequent flyer miles to > me she was told it wasn't allowed. Are there > particular airlines or > flights they allow you to do so? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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