Guest guest Posted September 25, 2003 Report Share Posted September 25, 2003 >From today's newindpress.com Friday September 26 2003 00:00 IST Hidden ironies in Shaktispeak at Ammafest KOCHI: On Thursday, the international crowd in the Amriteshwari Hall near the Jawaharlal Nehru International Stadium numbered more than 15,000. It was an eclectic mix of rich and poor, desi and international, from whiteclad Amma acolytes to saffron sanyasis and Indian devotees. On stage sat an unlikely guest row: American actress-activist Linda Evans (`Krystle Carrington' of 'Dynasty' fame, highly visible now in environmental causes); Dr K.S. Fathima Beevi, a Malayali student of Vedanta and member of the governing syndicate of Mahatma Gandhi University, Dr Poornima Advani, Chairperson, National Commission for Women, Rabbi Leah Novick, pathfinder of the Jewish Renewal Movement, Dr Mangalam Srinivasan, Special Advisor, John F. Kennedy School of Government, Mridula Sinha, Central Social Welfare Board, India, and Dr Saleha Mahmood Abedin, Islamic scholar from Saudi Arabia. In the audience sat Mata Amritandamayi, flanked by Dr Najma Heptullah and Yolanda Scott King, daughter of Dr Martin Luther King Jr. while listening intently in a corner sat Surayya Jabeen, member of the President's Task Force for Human Development and Advisor, Family Planning to the Government of Pakistan. While Linda Evans, cool in a pale blue jacket, straw boater and fawn trousers spoke glowingly of ``Amma's inner beauty and strength and ability to inspire thousands of people to do good'', Dr Mangalam Srinivasan made a cerebrally well-argued yet passionate appeal for women's empowerment, quoting lavishly from sub-continental women writers like Ruqaiyya Sultan and Atiya Dawood, while Rabbi Leah chanted Hebrew hymns and spoke movingly of `Shaqina' She Who Dwells Within (the heart), the Woman Goddess of the Abrahamic faith who was made to disappear over time by a cabal of male chauvinists. ``Amma empowers me to speak of Shaqina freely in world forums,'' revealed Rabbi Leah before bending down for a big hug from the Earth Mother. Dr Beevi drew wild applause when she disclosed in Malayalam that despite being a Muslim woman she had made it her business to study Vedanta. She quoted the famous Adi Shankara Sanskrit remark that while there are many bad sons, there is never a bad mother: a quote, alas, employed by at least three speakers to shed light on the day's theme of `Towards A Deeper Understanding of Motherhood'. Dr Poornima Advani made a well-reasoned argument for the introduction of meditation as a transformatibve tool in jails (a route already pursued by Sri Sri Ravi Shankar's Art of Living Foundation). Yolanda King, colourful in a JJ Valaya crinkled crepe skirt, tunic and jacket in a melange of saffron and green with typical mother-of-pearl buttons, spoke later at a press conference on how she first met Amma through a beautiful quote on the world being a flower and each nation a petal — an observation she wanted to use in a due-in-January book she is compiling on race relations through personal accounts. ``It was easy for me to identify Amma with my father's philosophy because both are about the connectedness between each one of us and using that power to change the world,'' she said, adding, ``I feel close to India because Mahatma Gandhi was a big influence on my father and I grew up seeing Gandhi's picture in my father's study and hearing Gandhi stories.'' Also at a press conference held just after the symposium, Linda Evans said it was ``unfortunate'' that so many people in India seemed to be deifying Amma and worshipping her as a goddess (reacting to the many fulsome references to Amma by Indian speakers). Instead, said the television star, people could use Amma's tremendous energy to activate their own. In ironic contrast to Evans, King and Mangalam Srinivasan, a discordant note was struck by P. Parameshwaran, director of Bharatiya Vichara Kendra, which is one of the BJP's many fronts. His speech on ``Motherhood'' was full of patriarchal bias, regressive and repressive in the tradition of feudal Hinduism while professing to elevate and deify the woman as Devi Ma. Parameshwaran's insistence that a woman's ''highest destiny'' and ``greatest glory'' is motherhood was a warning signal of the kind of conservative neo-Taliban mindset of this purported BJP ``think tank''. Parameshwaran, incidentally, is a former member of the Left and very much a new convert to Hindutva. Observing these developments sat Surayya Jabeen, the Pakistani activist. ``Bahut lad liya (We have fought a lot),'' she said steadily. ``This kind of thinking is a sub-continental drawback. I don't believe a human being should be deified. But I met Amma last year in Geneva and liked her simplicity and spirituality. I am here to show my solidarity with the global cause of women's empowerment, with peace and love, rather than the brutality that men everywhere think so necessary,'' she added. The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2003 Report Share Posted September 25, 2003 Keval, I feel that the author of this article is a bit too hasty to condemn the speaker who talked of 'Motherhood' being a woman's greatest glory.. I dont see that as being partriarchal at all.. In the indian cultural context, the mother is sacred... 'Matru Devo Bhava' ( treat the mother as God) the scriptures say.. for obvious reasons no life is possible without motherhood... also all over the world, and definitely in india, Motherly love is seen to be closest to that of God's in terms of utter selflessness... so the statement 'motherhood is a woman's greatest glory' is not all that patriarchal- i think it merely appreciates the value,depth and greatness of a mother's compassionate heart ... I dont think the speaker said that women shouldnt be treated equally or shouldnt vote ot go to work... those would have been chauvinistic comments.. but i dont see how glorifying motherliness can be considered 'patriarchal' or feudal ..... i think the author of the article doesnt understand the indian psyche or the reverence traditional india has for mothers.... To us every thing that is 'giving' by nature is the Mother- The vedas give knowledge so it is 'Veda Mata'- the 'Knowledge Mother'- the cow gives milk etc so it is 'Go-maata'... the very earth is compassonate and patient so it is 'bhoomi mata - mother earth'..., the rivers give water- so the ganges is 'Ganga Mata' etc etc ... any comments? bala Mike Brooker <patria1818 wrote: >From today's newindpress.com Friday September 26 2003 00:00 IST Hidden ironies in Shaktispeak at Ammafest KOCHI: On Thursday, the international crowd in the Amriteshwari Hall near the Jawaharlal Nehru International Stadium numbered more than 15,000. It was an eclectic mix of rich and poor, desi and international, from whiteclad Amma acolytes to saffron sanyasis and Indian devotees. On stage sat an unlikely guest row: American actress-activist Linda Evans (`Krystle Carrington' of 'Dynasty' fame, highly visible now in environmental causes); Dr K.S. Fathima Beevi, a Malayali student of Vedanta and member of the governing syndicate of Mahatma Gandhi University, Dr Poornima Advani, Chairperson, National Commission for Women, Rabbi Leah Novick, pathfinder of the Jewish Renewal Movement, Dr Mangalam Srinivasan, Special Advisor, John F. Kennedy School of Government, Mridula Sinha, Central Social Welfare Board, India, and Dr Saleha Mahmood Abedin, Islamic scholar from Saudi Arabia. In the audience sat Mata Amritandamayi, flanked by Dr Najma Heptullah and Yolanda Scott King, daughter of Dr Martin Luther King Jr. while listening intently in a corner sat Surayya Jabeen, member of the President's Task Force for Human Development and Advisor, Family Planning to the Government of Pakistan. While Linda Evans, cool in a pale blue jacket, straw boater and fawn trousers spoke glowingly of ``Amma's inner beauty and strength and ability to inspire thousands of people to do good'', Dr Mangalam Srinivasan made a cerebrally well-argued yet passionate appeal for women's empowerment, quoting lavishly from sub-continental women writers like Ruqaiyya Sultan and Atiya Dawood, while Rabbi Leah chanted Hebrew hymns and spoke movingly of `Shaqina' She Who Dwells Within (the heart), the Woman Goddess of the Abrahamic faith who was made to disappear over time by a cabal of male chauvinists. ``Amma empowers me to speak of Shaqina freely in world forums,'' revealed Rabbi Leah before bending down for a big hug from the Earth Mother. Dr Beevi drew wild applause when she disclosed in Malayalam that despite being a Muslim woman she had made it her business to study Vedanta. She quoted the famous Adi Shankara Sanskrit remark that while there are many bad sons, there is never a bad mother: a quote, alas, employed by at least three speakers to shed light on the day's theme of `Towards A Deeper Understanding of Motherhood'. Dr Poornima Advani made a well-reasoned argument for the introduction of meditation as a transformatibve tool in jails (a route already pursued by Sri Sri Ravi Shankar's Art of Living Foundation). Yolanda King, colourful in a JJ Valaya crinkled crepe skirt, tunic and jacket in a melange of saffron and green with typical mother-of-pearl buttons, spoke later at a press conference on how she first met Amma through a beautiful quote on the world being a flower and each nation a petal — an observation she wanted to use in a due-in-January book she is compiling on race relations through personal accounts. ``It was easy for me to identify Amma with my father's philosophy because both are about the connectedness between each one of us and using that power to change the world,'' she said, adding, ``I feel close to India because Mahatma Gandhi was a big influence on my father and I grew up seeing Gandhi's picture in my father's study and hearing Gandhi stories.'' Also at a press conference held just after the symposium, Linda Evans said it was ``unfortunate'' that so many people in India seemed to be deifying Amma and worshipping her as a goddess (reacting to the many fulsome references to Amma by Indian speakers). Instead, said the television star, people could use Amma's tremendous energy to activate their own. In ironic contrast to Evans, King and Mangalam Srinivasan, a discordant note was struck by P. Parameshwaran, director of Bharatiya Vichara Kendra, which is one of the BJP's many fronts. His speech on ``Motherhood'' was full of patriarchal bias, regressive and repressive in the tradition of feudal Hinduism while professing to elevate and deify the woman as Devi Ma. Parameshwaran's insistence that a woman's ''highest destiny'' and ``greatest glory'' is motherhood was a warning signal of the kind of conservative neo-Taliban mindset of this purported BJP ``think tank''. Parameshwaran, incidentally, is a former member of the Left and very much a new convert to Hindutva. Observing these developments sat Surayya Jabeen, the Pakistani activist. ``Bahut lad liya (We have fought a lot),'' she said steadily. ``This kind of thinking is a sub-continental drawback. I don't believe a human being should be deified. But I met Amma last year in Geneva and liked her simplicity and spirituality. I am here to show my solidarity with the global cause of women's empowerment, with peace and love, rather than the brutality that men everywhere think so necessary,'' she added. The New with improved product search Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi Your use of is subject to The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2003 Report Share Posted September 25, 2003 He was talking about a speech from someone affiliated with the BJP, hardly a topic for neutral assessment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2003 Report Share Posted September 25, 2003 - "balakrishnan Shankar" <balakrishnan_sh <Ammachi> Thursday, September 25, 2003 6:23 PM Re: Hidden ironies in Shaktispeak at Ammafest Namaste, Keval and others, I suspect the wrong step in the speech might have been the comment about the highest destiny for women being motherhood; while the speech was heard by innumerable Indians, it was also presented internationally and women have been struggling, globally for the "right" to aspire to other "occupations" as well. I know this isn't well said on my part and I doubt that harm was intended in the speech -as you say, motherhood has traditionally been revered in India, but even Amma has been trying to help homeless and destitute women; often those women have children. Perhaps the offense was that motherhood IS a wonderful and high destiny, but in today's world, women also need skills to carry them - or enable them to participate in- the in the larger world. If there was hint of either/or in the speech, listeners might have felt it was a step backwards. This is NOT a personal opinion and is NOT meant to be controversial - just a response to the request for input. My "perhaps" are just that - perhaps the logic might go like this...it is equally likely that perhaps it does NOT! Love to all, Snehalata Keval, I feel that the author of this article is a bit too hasty to condemn the speaker who talked of 'Motherhood' being a woman's greatest glory.. I dont see that as being partriarchal at all.. In the indian cultural context, the mother is sacred... 'Matru Devo Bhava' ( treat the mother as God) the scriptures say.. for obvious reasons no life is possible without motherhood... also all over the world, and definitely in india, Motherly love is seen to be closest to that of God's in terms of utter selflessness... so the statement 'motherhood is a woman's greatest glory' is not all that patriarchal- i think it merely appreciates the value,depth and greatness of a mother's compassionate heart ... I dont think the speaker said that women shouldnt be treated equally or shouldnt vote ot go to work... those would have been chauvinistic comments.. but i dont see how glorifying motherliness can be considered 'patriarchal' or feudal .... i think the author of the article doesnt understand the indian psyche or the reverence traditional india has for mothers.... To us every thing that is 'giving' by nature is the Mother- The vedas give knowledge so it is 'Veda Mata'- the 'Knowledge Mother'- the cow gives milk etc so it is 'Go-maata'... the very earth is compassonate and patient so it is 'bhoomi mata - mother earth'..., the rivers give water- so the ganges is 'Ganga Mata' etc etc ... any comments? bala Mike Brooker <patria1818 wrote: >From today's newindpress.com Friday September 26 2003 00:00 IST Hidden ironies in Shaktispeak at Ammafest KOCHI: On Thursday, the international crowd in the Amriteshwari Hall near the Jawaharlal Nehru International Stadium numbered more than 15,000. It was an eclectic mix of rich and poor, desi and international, from whiteclad Amma acolytes to saffron sanyasis and Indian devotees. On stage sat an unlikely guest row: American actress-activist Linda Evans (`Krystle Carrington' of 'Dynasty' fame, highly visible now in environmental causes); Dr K.S. Fathima Beevi, a Malayali student of Vedanta and member of the governing syndicate of Mahatma Gandhi University, Dr Poornima Advani, Chairperson, National Commission for Women, Rabbi Leah Novick, pathfinder of the Jewish Renewal Movement, Dr Mangalam Srinivasan, Special Advisor, John F. Kennedy School of Government, Mridula Sinha, Central Social Welfare Board, India, and Dr Saleha Mahmood Abedin, Islamic scholar from Saudi Arabia. In the audience sat Mata Amritandamayi, flanked by Dr Najma Heptullah and Yolanda Scott King, daughter of Dr Martin Luther King Jr. while listening intently in a corner sat Surayya Jabeen, member of the President's Task Force for Human Development and Advisor, Family Planning to the Government of Pakistan. While Linda Evans, cool in a pale blue jacket, straw boater and fawn trousers spoke glowingly of ``Amma's inner beauty and strength and ability to inspire thousands of people to do good'', Dr Mangalam Srinivasan made a cerebrally well-argued yet passionate appeal for women's empowerment, quoting lavishly from sub-continental women writers like Ruqaiyya Sultan and Atiya Dawood, while Rabbi Leah chanted Hebrew hymns and spoke movingly of `Shaqina' She Who Dwells Within (the heart), the Woman Goddess of the Abrahamic faith who was made to disappear over time by a cabal of male chauvinists. ``Amma empowers me to speak of Shaqina freely in world forums,'' revealed Rabbi Leah before bending down for a big hug from the Earth Mother. Dr Beevi drew wild applause when she disclosed in Malayalam that despite being a Muslim woman she had made it her business to study Vedanta. She quoted the famous Adi Shankara Sanskrit remark that while there are many bad sons, there is never a bad mother: a quote, alas, employed by at least three speakers to shed light on the day's theme of `Towards A Deeper Understanding of Motherhood'. Dr Poornima Advani made a well-reasoned argument for the introduction of meditation as a transformatibve tool in jails (a route already pursued by Sri Sri Ravi Shankar's Art of Living Foundation). Yolanda King, colourful in a JJ Valaya crinkled crepe skirt, tunic and jacket in a melange of saffron and green with typical mother-of-pearl buttons, spoke later at a press conference on how she first met Amma through a beautiful quote on the world being a flower and each nation a petal - an observation she wanted to use in a due-in-January book she is compiling on race relations through personal accounts. ``It was easy for me to identify Amma with my father's philosophy because both are about the connectedness between each one of us and using that power to change the world,'' she said, adding, ``I feel close to India because Mahatma Gandhi was a big influence on my father and I grew up seeing Gandhi's picture in my father's study and hearing Gandhi stories.'' Also at a press conference held just after the symposium, Linda Evans said it was ``unfortunate'' that so many people in India seemed to be deifying Amma and worshipping her as a goddess (reacting to the many fulsome references to Amma by Indian speakers). Instead, said the television star, people could use Amma's tremendous energy to activate their own. In ironic contrast to Evans, King and Mangalam Srinivasan, a discordant note was struck by P. Parameshwaran, director of Bharatiya Vichara Kendra, which is one of the BJP's many fronts. His speech on ``Motherhood'' was full of patriarchal bias, regressive and repressive in the tradition of feudal Hinduism while professing to elevate and deify the woman as Devi Ma. Parameshwaran's insistence that a woman's ''highest destiny'' and ``greatest glory'' is motherhood was a warning signal of the kind of conservative neo-Taliban mindset of this purported BJP ``think tank''. Parameshwaran, incidentally, is a former member of the Left and very much a new convert to Hindutva. Observing these developments sat Surayya Jabeen, the Pakistani activist. ``Bahut lad liya (We have fought a lot),'' she said steadily. ``This kind of thinking is a sub-continental drawback. I don't believe a human being should be deified. But I met Amma last year in Geneva and liked her simplicity and spirituality. I am here to show my solidarity with the global cause of women's empowerment, with peace and love, rather than the brutality that men everywhere think so necessary,'' she added. The New with improved product search Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi Your use of is subject to The New with improved product search Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2003 Report Share Posted September 25, 2003 - zanskari Ammachi Thursday, September 25, 2003 8:02 PM Re: Hidden ironies in Shaktispeak at Ammafest Perhaps you misread my statement - I did NOT make an "assessment" and attempted to make it quite clear that I was not expressing a personal opinion. I do not know what the BJP is, but I do know I am somewhat hurt by your response. I had hoped we could get through these holy days without snapping at each other and am sorry my words apparently disturbed you. I am part of this group to share in good discussions and celebrate the Divine Mother with like-minded spirits, not generate controversy. Please, to the rest of you - if offense was given, it was not intended. I'm sorry I even responded to bala's request. Namaste, Snehalata He was talking about a speech from someone affiliated with the BJP, hardly a topic for neutral assessment! Sponsor Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2003 Report Share Posted September 25, 2003 I agree with Bala. I think the snide comment in a "news" story is also off-putting. In this county too, there was a time when motherhood was revered. IMHO it was a dark day for this country when women decided it was "more meaningful" to have a new house, two suv's, and new televisions rather than stay home and take care of their priceless children. If anyone wants to flame me for this, please do so off the list. An unashamed traditionalist, Jyotsna --- balakrishnan Shankar <balakrishnan_sh wrote: > Keval, > > I feel that the author of this article is a bit > too hasty to condemn the speaker who talked of > 'Motherhood' being a woman's greatest glory.. I dont > see that as being partriarchal at all.. In the > indian cultural context, the mother is sacred... > 'Matru Devo Bhava' ( treat the mother as God) the > scriptures say.. for obvious reasons no life is > possible without motherhood... > > also all over the world, and definitely in india, > Motherly love is seen to be closest to that of God's > in terms of utter selflessness... so the statement > 'motherhood is a woman's greatest glory' is not all > that patriarchal- i think it merely appreciates the > value,depth and greatness of a mother's > compassionate heart ... > > I dont think the speaker said that women shouldnt > be treated equally or shouldnt vote ot go to work... > those would have been chauvinistic comments.. but i > dont see how glorifying motherliness can be > considered 'patriarchal' or feudal .... i think the > author of the article doesnt understand the indian > psyche or the reverence traditional india has for > mothers.... > > To us every thing that is 'giving' by nature is > the Mother- The vedas give knowledge so it is 'Veda > Mata'- the 'Knowledge Mother'- the cow gives milk > etc so it is 'Go-maata'... the very earth is > compassonate and patient so it is 'bhoomi mata - > mother earth'..., the rivers give water- so the > ganges is 'Ganga Mata' etc etc ... > > > any comments? > > bala > > Mike Brooker <patria1818 wrote: > From today's newindpress.com > > Friday September 26 2003 00:00 IST > > Hidden ironies in Shaktispeak at Ammafest > > KOCHI: On Thursday, the international crowd in the > Amriteshwari Hall near the Jawaharlal Nehru > International Stadium numbered more than 15,000. It > was an eclectic mix of rich and poor, desi and > international, from whiteclad Amma acolytes to > saffron > sanyasis and Indian devotees. > > On stage sat an unlikely guest row: American > actress-activist Linda Evans (`Krystle Carrington' > of > 'Dynasty' fame, highly visible now in environmental > causes); Dr K.S. Fathima Beevi, a Malayali student > of > Vedanta and member of the governing syndicate of > Mahatma Gandhi University, Dr Poornima Advani, > Chairperson, National Commission for Women, Rabbi > Leah > Novick, pathfinder of the Jewish Renewal Movement, > Dr > Mangalam Srinivasan, Special Advisor, John F. > Kennedy > School of Government, Mridula Sinha, Central Social > Welfare Board, India, and Dr Saleha Mahmood Abedin, > Islamic scholar from Saudi Arabia. > > In the audience sat Mata Amritandamayi, flanked by > Dr > Najma Heptullah and Yolanda Scott King, daughter of > Dr > Martin Luther King Jr. while listening intently in a > corner sat Surayya Jabeen, member of the President's > Task Force for Human Development and Advisor, Family > Planning to the Government of Pakistan. > > While Linda Evans, cool in a pale blue jacket, straw > boater and fawn trousers spoke glowingly of ``Amma's > inner beauty and strength and ability to inspire > thousands of people to do good'', Dr Mangalam > Srinivasan made a cerebrally well-argued yet > passionate appeal for women's empowerment, quoting > lavishly from sub-continental women writers like > Ruqaiyya Sultan and Atiya Dawood, while Rabbi Leah > chanted Hebrew hymns and spoke movingly of `Shaqina' > She Who Dwells Within (the heart), the Woman Goddess > of the Abrahamic faith who was made to disappear > over > time by a cabal of male chauvinists. > > ``Amma empowers me to speak of Shaqina freely in > world > forums,'' revealed Rabbi Leah before bending down > for > a big hug from the Earth Mother. Dr Beevi drew wild > applause when she disclosed in Malayalam that > despite > being a Muslim woman she had made it her business to > study Vedanta. > > She quoted the famous Adi Shankara Sanskrit remark > that while there are many bad sons, there is never a > bad mother: a quote, alas, employed by at least > three > speakers to shed light on the day's theme of > `Towards > A Deeper Understanding of Motherhood'. Dr Poornima > Advani made a well-reasoned argument for the > introduction of meditation as a transformatibve tool > in jails (a route already pursued by Sri Sri Ravi > Shankar's Art of Living Foundation). Yolanda King, > colourful in a JJ Valaya crinkled crepe skirt, tunic > and jacket in a melange of saffron and green with > typical mother-of-pearl buttons, spoke later at a > press conference on how she first met Amma through a > beautiful quote on the world being a flower and each > nation a petal — an observation she wanted to use in > a > due-in-January book she is compiling on race > relations > through personal accounts. > > ``It was easy for me to identify Amma with my > father's > philosophy because both are about the connectedness > between each one of us and using that power to > change > the world,'' she said, adding, ``I feel close to > India > because Mahatma Gandhi was a big influence on my > father and I grew up seeing Gandhi's picture in my > father's study and hearing Gandhi stories.'' > > Also at a press conference held just after the > symposium, Linda Evans said it was ``unfortunate'' > that so many people in India seemed to be deifying > Amma and worshipping her as a goddess (reacting to > the > many fulsome references to Amma by Indian speakers). > Instead, said the television star, people could use > Amma's tremendous energy to activate their own. > > In ironic contrast to Evans, King and Mangalam > Srinivasan, a discordant note was struck by P. > Parameshwaran, director of Bharatiya Vichara Kendra, > which is one of the BJP's many fronts. His speech on > ``Motherhood'' was full of patriarchal bias, > regressive and repressive in the tradition of feudal > Hinduism while professing to elevate and deify the > woman as Devi Ma. > > Parameshwaran's insistence that a woman's ''highest > destiny'' and ``greatest glory'' is motherhood was a > warning signal of the kind of conservative > neo-Taliban > mindset of this purported BJP ``think tank''. > Parameshwaran, incidentally, is a former member of > the > Left and very much a new convert to Hindutva. > > Observing these developments sat Surayya Jabeen, the > Pakistani activist. ``Bahut lad liya (We have fought > a > lot),'' she said steadily. ``This kind of thinking > is > a sub-continental drawback. I don't believe a human > being should be deified. But I met Amma last year in > Geneva and liked her simplicity and spirituality. I > am > here to show my solidarity with the global cause of > women's empowerment, with peace and love, rather > than > the brutality that men everywhere think so > necessary,'' she added. > > > > > > The New with improved product > search > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > Ammachi > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > === message truncated === The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2003 Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 IMHO parenthood is the most important job on the planet (other than being the Divine Mother), and also the most difficult. After being dependent due to disability, however, I understand why women want an identity other than homemaker and mother, as these jobs are not valued in the home or elsewhere. Prasadini "E. Lamb" wrote: > I agree with Bala. I think the snide comment in > a "news" story is also off-putting. In this county > too, there was a time when motherhood was revered. > IMHO it was a dark day for this country when women > decided it was "more meaningful" to have a new house, > two suv's, and new televisions rather than stay home > and take care of their priceless children. If > anyone wants to flame me for this, please do so off > the list. > > An unashamed traditionalist, > Jyotsna > > --- balakrishnan Shankar <balakrishnan_sh > wrote: > > Keval, > > > > I feel that the author of this article is a bit > > too hasty to condemn the speaker who talked of > > 'Motherhood' being a woman's greatest glory.. I dont > > see that as being partriarchal at all.. In the > > indian cultural context, the mother is sacred... > > 'Matru Devo Bhava' ( treat the mother as God) the > > scriptures say.. for obvious reasons no life is > > possible without motherhood... > > > > also all over the world, and definitely in india, > > Motherly love is seen to be closest to that of God's > > in terms of utter selflessness... so the statement > > 'motherhood is a woman's greatest glory' is not all > > that patriarchal- i think it merely appreciates the > > value,depth and greatness of a mother's > > compassionate heart ... > > > > I dont think the speaker said that women shouldnt > > be treated equally or shouldnt vote ot go to work... > > those would have been chauvinistic comments.. but i > > dont see how glorifying motherliness can be > > considered 'patriarchal' or feudal .... i think the > > author of the article doesnt understand the indian > > psyche or the reverence traditional india has for > > mothers.... > > > > To us every thing that is 'giving' by nature is > > the Mother- The vedas give knowledge so it is 'Veda > > Mata'- the 'Knowledge Mother'- the cow gives milk > > etc so it is 'Go-maata'... the very earth is > > compassonate and patient so it is 'bhoomi mata - > > mother earth'..., the rivers give water- so the > > ganges is 'Ganga Mata' etc etc ... > > > > > > any comments? > > > > bala > > > > Mike Brooker <patria1818 wrote: > > From today's newindpress.com > > > > Friday September 26 2003 00:00 IST > > > > Hidden ironies in Shaktispeak at Ammafest > > > > KOCHI: On Thursday, the international crowd in the > > Amriteshwari Hall near the Jawaharlal Nehru > > International Stadium numbered more than 15,000. It > > was an eclectic mix of rich and poor, desi and > > international, from whiteclad Amma acolytes to > > saffron > > sanyasis and Indian devotees. > > > > On stage sat an unlikely guest row: American > > actress-activist Linda Evans (`Krystle Carrington' > > of > > 'Dynasty' fame, highly visible now in environmental > > causes); Dr K.S. Fathima Beevi, a Malayali student > > of > > Vedanta and member of the governing syndicate of > > Mahatma Gandhi University, Dr Poornima Advani, > > Chairperson, National Commission for Women, Rabbi > > Leah > > Novick, pathfinder of the Jewish Renewal Movement, > > Dr > > Mangalam Srinivasan, Special Advisor, John F. > > Kennedy > > School of Government, Mridula Sinha, Central Social > > Welfare Board, India, and Dr Saleha Mahmood Abedin, > > Islamic scholar from Saudi Arabia. > > > > In the audience sat Mata Amritandamayi, flanked by > > Dr > > Najma Heptullah and Yolanda Scott King, daughter of > > Dr > > Martin Luther King Jr. while listening intently in a > > corner sat Surayya Jabeen, member of the President's > > Task Force for Human Development and Advisor, Family > > Planning to the Government of Pakistan. > > > > While Linda Evans, cool in a pale blue jacket, straw > > boater and fawn trousers spoke glowingly of ``Amma's > > inner beauty and strength and ability to inspire > > thousands of people to do good'', Dr Mangalam > > Srinivasan made a cerebrally well-argued yet > > passionate appeal for women's empowerment, quoting > > lavishly from sub-continental women writers like > > Ruqaiyya Sultan and Atiya Dawood, while Rabbi Leah > > chanted Hebrew hymns and spoke movingly of `Shaqina' > > She Who Dwells Within (the heart), the Woman Goddess > > of the Abrahamic faith who was made to disappear > > over > > time by a cabal of male chauvinists. > > > > ``Amma empowers me to speak of Shaqina freely in > > world > > forums,'' revealed Rabbi Leah before bending down > > for > > a big hug from the Earth Mother. Dr Beevi drew wild > > applause when she disclosed in Malayalam that > > despite > > being a Muslim woman she had made it her business to > > study Vedanta. > > > > She quoted the famous Adi Shankara Sanskrit remark > > that while there are many bad sons, there is never a > > bad mother: a quote, alas, employed by at least > > three > > speakers to shed light on the day's theme of > > `Towards > > A Deeper Understanding of Motherhood'. Dr Poornima > > Advani made a well-reasoned argument for the > > introduction of meditation as a transformatibve tool > > in jails (a route already pursued by Sri Sri Ravi > > Shankar's Art of Living Foundation). Yolanda King, > > colourful in a JJ Valaya crinkled crepe skirt, tunic > > and jacket in a melange of saffron and green with > > typical mother-of-pearl buttons, spoke later at a > > press conference on how she first met Amma through a > > beautiful quote on the world being a flower and each > > nation a petal — an observation she wanted to use in > > a > > due-in-January book she is compiling on race > > relations > > through personal accounts. > > > > ``It was easy for me to identify Amma with my > > father's > > philosophy because both are about the connectedness > > between each one of us and using that power to > > change > > the world,'' she said, adding, ``I feel close to > > India > > because Mahatma Gandhi was a big influence on my > > father and I grew up seeing Gandhi's picture in my > > father's study and hearing Gandhi stories.'' > > > > Also at a press conference held just after the > > symposium, Linda Evans said it was ``unfortunate'' > > that so many people in India seemed to be deifying > > Amma and worshipping her as a goddess (reacting to > > the > > many fulsome references to Amma by Indian speakers). > > Instead, said the television star, people could use > > Amma's tremendous energy to activate their own. > > > > In ironic contrast to Evans, King and Mangalam > > Srinivasan, a discordant note was struck by P. > > Parameshwaran, director of Bharatiya Vichara Kendra, > > which is one of the BJP's many fronts. His speech on > > ``Motherhood'' was full of patriarchal bias, > > regressive and repressive in the tradition of feudal > > Hinduism while professing to elevate and deify the > > woman as Devi Ma. > > > > Parameshwaran's insistence that a woman's ''highest > > destiny'' and ``greatest glory'' is motherhood was a > > warning signal of the kind of conservative > > neo-Taliban > > mindset of this purported BJP ``think tank''. > > Parameshwaran, incidentally, is a former member of > > the > > Left and very much a new convert to Hindutva. > > > > Observing these developments sat Surayya Jabeen, the > > Pakistani activist. ``Bahut lad liya (We have fought > > a > > lot),'' she said steadily. ``This kind of thinking > > is > > a sub-continental drawback. I don't believe a human > > being should be deified. But I met Amma last year in > > Geneva and liked her simplicity and spirituality. I > > am > > here to show my solidarity with the global cause of > > women's empowerment, with peace and love, rather > > than > > the brutality that men everywhere think so > > necessary,'' she added. > > > > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product > > search > > > > > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > > > Ammachi > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > The New with improved product search > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > Ammachi > > > Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2003 Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 I would humbly submit that the value has to come from within. It could also be argued that spirituality is not valued in the home or elsewhere. Does this mean we should give up spirituality? Having been in the workplace far longer than I'd like, I can only point to the comic strip "Dilbert" as being indicative of far too many work situations:), including my own. 18 months til early retirement, Jyotsna --- ganesh108 <ganesh108 wrote: > IMHO parenthood is the most important job on the > planet (other than being the > Divine Mother), and also the most difficult. After > being dependent due to > disability, however, I understand why women want an > identity other than > homemaker and mother, as these jobs are not valued > in the home or elsewhere. > > Prasadini > > "E. Lamb" wrote: > > > I agree with Bala. I think the snide comment in > > a "news" story is also off-putting. In this > county > > too, there was a time when motherhood was revered. > > IMHO it was a dark day for this country when women > > decided it was "more meaningful" to have a new > house, > > two suv's, and new televisions rather than stay > home > > and take care of their priceless children. If > > anyone wants to flame me for this, please do so > off > > the list. > > > > An unashamed traditionalist, > > Jyotsna > > > > --- balakrishnan Shankar > <balakrishnan_sh > > wrote: > > > Keval, > > > > > > I feel that the author of this article is a > bit > > > too hasty to condemn the speaker who talked of > > > 'Motherhood' being a woman's greatest glory.. I > dont > > > see that as being partriarchal at all.. In the > > > indian cultural context, the mother is sacred... > > > 'Matru Devo Bhava' ( treat the mother as God) > the > > > scriptures say.. for obvious reasons no life is > > > possible without motherhood... > > > > > > also all over the world, and definitely in > india, > > > Motherly love is seen to be closest to that of > God's > > > in terms of utter selflessness... so the > statement > > > 'motherhood is a woman's greatest glory' is not > all > > > that patriarchal- i think it merely appreciates > the > > > value,depth and greatness of a mother's > > > compassionate heart ... > > > > > > I dont think the speaker said that women > shouldnt > > > be treated equally or shouldnt vote ot go to > work... > > > those would have been chauvinistic comments.. > but i > > > dont see how glorifying motherliness can be > > > considered 'patriarchal' or feudal .... i think > the > > > author of the article doesnt understand the > indian > > > psyche or the reverence traditional india has > for > > > mothers.... > > > > > > To us every thing that is 'giving' by nature > is > > > the Mother- The vedas give knowledge so it is > 'Veda > > > Mata'- the 'Knowledge Mother'- the cow gives > milk > > > etc so it is 'Go-maata'... the very earth is > > > compassonate and patient so it is 'bhoomi mata - > > > mother earth'..., the rivers give water- so the > > > ganges is 'Ganga Mata' etc etc ... > > > > > > > > > any comments? > > > > > > bala > > > > > > Mike Brooker <patria1818 wrote: > > > From today's newindpress.com > > > > > > Friday September 26 2003 00:00 IST > > > > > > Hidden ironies in Shaktispeak at Ammafest > > > > > > KOCHI: On Thursday, the international crowd in > the > > > Amriteshwari Hall near the Jawaharlal Nehru > > > International Stadium numbered more than 15,000. > It > > > was an eclectic mix of rich and poor, desi and > > > international, from whiteclad Amma acolytes to > > > saffron > > > sanyasis and Indian devotees. > > > > > > On stage sat an unlikely guest row: American > > > actress-activist Linda Evans (`Krystle > Carrington' > > > of > > > 'Dynasty' fame, highly visible now in > environmental > > > causes); Dr K.S. Fathima Beevi, a Malayali > student > > > of > > > Vedanta and member of the governing syndicate of > > > Mahatma Gandhi University, Dr Poornima Advani, > > > Chairperson, National Commission for Women, > Rabbi > > > Leah > > > Novick, pathfinder of the Jewish Renewal > Movement, > > > Dr > > > Mangalam Srinivasan, Special Advisor, John F. > > > Kennedy > > > School of Government, Mridula Sinha, Central > Social > > > Welfare Board, India, and Dr Saleha Mahmood > Abedin, > > > Islamic scholar from Saudi Arabia. > > > > > > In the audience sat Mata Amritandamayi, flanked > by > > > Dr > > > Najma Heptullah and Yolanda Scott King, daughter > of > > > Dr > > > Martin Luther King Jr. while listening intently > in a > > > corner sat Surayya Jabeen, member of the > President's > > > Task Force for Human Development and Advisor, > Family > > > Planning to the Government of Pakistan. > > > > > > While Linda Evans, cool in a pale blue jacket, > straw > > > boater and fawn trousers spoke glowingly of > ``Amma's > > > inner beauty and strength and ability to inspire > > > thousands of people to do good'', Dr Mangalam > > > Srinivasan made a cerebrally well-argued yet > > > passionate appeal for women's empowerment, > quoting > > > lavishly from sub-continental women writers like > > > Ruqaiyya Sultan and Atiya Dawood, while Rabbi > Leah > > > chanted Hebrew hymns and spoke movingly of > `Shaqina' > > > She Who Dwells Within (the heart), the Woman > Goddess > > > of the Abrahamic faith who was made to disappear > > > over > > > time by a cabal of male chauvinists. > > > > > > ``Amma empowers me to speak of Shaqina freely in > > > world > > > forums,'' revealed Rabbi Leah before bending > down > > > for > > > a big hug from the Earth Mother. Dr Beevi drew > wild > > > applause when she disclosed in Malayalam that > > > despite > > > being a Muslim woman she had made it her > business to > > > study Vedanta. > > > > > > She quoted the famous Adi Shankara Sanskrit > remark > > > that while there are many bad sons, there is > never a > > > bad mother: a quote, alas, employed by at least > > > three > > > speakers to shed light on the day's theme of > > > `Towards > > > A Deeper Understanding of Motherhood'. Dr > Poornima > > > Advani made a well-reasoned argument for the > > > introduction of meditation as a transformatibve > tool > > > in jails (a route already pursued by Sri Sri > Ravi > > > Shankar's Art of Living Foundation). Yolanda > King, > > > colourful in a JJ Valaya crinkled crepe skirt, > tunic > > > and jacket in a melange of saffron and green > with > === message truncated === The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2003 Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 I agree that we have value just because we "are" - just because we exist. That which is in all hearts is so GOOD that it far exceeds all of the honorable positions and accolades. When one is constantly reminded from outside that they have no value, it makes it difficult to value oneself, that's all. I guess that is just my personal lesson, and I would guess a lesson for many others, especially women. "E. Lamb" wrote: > I would humbly submit that the value has to come > from within. It could also be argued that > spirituality is not valued in the home or elsewhere. > Does this mean we should give up spirituality? > > Having been in the workplace far longer than > I'd like, I can only point to the comic > strip "Dilbert" as being indicative of far too > many work situations:), including my own. > > 18 months til early retirement, > Jyotsna > > --- ganesh108 <ganesh108 wrote: > > IMHO parenthood is the most important job on the > > planet (other than being the > > Divine Mother), and also the most difficult. After > > being dependent due to > > disability, however, I understand why women want an > > identity other than > > homemaker and mother, as these jobs are not valued > > in the home or elsewhere. > > > > Prasadini > > > > "E. Lamb" wrote: > > > > > I agree with Bala. I think the snide comment in > > > a "news" story is also off-putting. In this > > county > > > too, there was a time when motherhood was revered. > > > IMHO it was a dark day for this country when women > > > decided it was "more meaningful" to have a new > > house, > > > two suv's, and new televisions rather than stay > > home > > > and take care of their priceless children. If > > > anyone wants to flame me for this, please do so > > off > > > the list. > > > > > > An unashamed traditionalist, > > > Jyotsna > > > > > > --- balakrishnan Shankar > > <balakrishnan_sh > > > wrote: > > > > Keval, > > > > > > > > I feel that the author of this article is a > > bit > > > > too hasty to condemn the speaker who talked of > > > > 'Motherhood' being a woman's greatest glory.. I > > dont > > > > see that as being partriarchal at all.. In the > > > > indian cultural context, the mother is sacred... > > > > 'Matru Devo Bhava' ( treat the mother as God) > > the > > > > scriptures say.. for obvious reasons no life is > > > > possible without motherhood... > > > > > > > > also all over the world, and definitely in > > india, > > > > Motherly love is seen to be closest to that of > > God's > > > > in terms of utter selflessness... so the > > statement > > > > 'motherhood is a woman's greatest glory' is not > > all > > > > that patriarchal- i think it merely appreciates > > the > > > > value,depth and greatness of a mother's > > > > compassionate heart ... > > > > > > > > I dont think the speaker said that women > > shouldnt > > > > be treated equally or shouldnt vote ot go to > > work... > > > > those would have been chauvinistic comments.. > > but i > > > > dont see how glorifying motherliness can be > > > > considered 'patriarchal' or feudal .... i think > > the > > > > author of the article doesnt understand the > > indian > > > > psyche or the reverence traditional india has > > for > > > > mothers.... > > > > > > > > To us every thing that is 'giving' by nature > > is > > > > the Mother- The vedas give knowledge so it is > > 'Veda > > > > Mata'- the 'Knowledge Mother'- the cow gives > > milk > > > > etc so it is 'Go-maata'... the very earth is > > > > compassonate and patient so it is 'bhoomi mata - > > > > mother earth'..., the rivers give water- so the > > > > ganges is 'Ganga Mata' etc etc ... > > > > > > > > > > > > any comments? > > > > > > > > bala > > > > > > > > Mike Brooker <patria1818 wrote: > > > > From today's newindpress.com > > > > > > > > Friday September 26 2003 00:00 IST > > > > > > > > Hidden ironies in Shaktispeak at Ammafest > > > > > > > > KOCHI: On Thursday, the international crowd in > > the > > > > Amriteshwari Hall near the Jawaharlal Nehru > > > > International Stadium numbered more than 15,000. > > It > > > > was an eclectic mix of rich and poor, desi and > > > > international, from whiteclad Amma acolytes to > > > > saffron > > > > sanyasis and Indian devotees. > > > > > > > > On stage sat an unlikely guest row: American > > > > actress-activist Linda Evans (`Krystle > > Carrington' > > > > of > > > > 'Dynasty' fame, highly visible now in > > environmental > > > > causes); Dr K.S. Fathima Beevi, a Malayali > > student > > > > of > > > > Vedanta and member of the governing syndicate of > > > > Mahatma Gandhi University, Dr Poornima Advani, > > > > Chairperson, National Commission for Women, > > Rabbi > > > > Leah > > > > Novick, pathfinder of the Jewish Renewal > > Movement, > > > > Dr > > > > Mangalam Srinivasan, Special Advisor, John F. > > > > Kennedy > > > > School of Government, Mridula Sinha, Central > > Social > > > > Welfare Board, India, and Dr Saleha Mahmood > > Abedin, > > > > Islamic scholar from Saudi Arabia. > > > > > > > > In the audience sat Mata Amritandamayi, flanked > > by > > > > Dr > > > > Najma Heptullah and Yolanda Scott King, daughter > > of > > > > Dr > > > > Martin Luther King Jr. while listening intently > > in a > > > > corner sat Surayya Jabeen, member of the > > President's > > > > Task Force for Human Development and Advisor, > > Family > > > > Planning to the Government of Pakistan. > > > > > > > > While Linda Evans, cool in a pale blue jacket, > > straw > > > > boater and fawn trousers spoke glowingly of > > ``Amma's > > > > inner beauty and strength and ability to inspire > > > > thousands of people to do good'', Dr Mangalam > > > > Srinivasan made a cerebrally well-argued yet > > > > passionate appeal for women's empowerment, > > quoting > > > > lavishly from sub-continental women writers like > > > > Ruqaiyya Sultan and Atiya Dawood, while Rabbi > > Leah > > > > chanted Hebrew hymns and spoke movingly of > > `Shaqina' > > > > She Who Dwells Within (the heart), the Woman > > Goddess > > > > of the Abrahamic faith who was made to disappear > > > > over > > > > time by a cabal of male chauvinists. > > > > > > > > ``Amma empowers me to speak of Shaqina freely in > > > > world > > > > forums,'' revealed Rabbi Leah before bending > > down > > > > for > > > > a big hug from the Earth Mother. Dr Beevi drew > > wild > > > > applause when she disclosed in Malayalam that > > > > despite > > > > being a Muslim woman she had made it her > > business to > > > > study Vedanta. > > > > > > > > She quoted the famous Adi Shankara Sanskrit > > remark > > > > that while there are many bad sons, there is > > never a > > > > bad mother: a quote, alas, employed by at least > > > > three > > > > speakers to shed light on the day's theme of > > > > `Towards > > > > A Deeper Understanding of Motherhood'. Dr > > Poornima > > > > Advani made a well-reasoned argument for the > > > > introduction of meditation as a transformatibve > > tool > > > > in jails (a route already pursued by Sri Sri > > Ravi > > > > Shankar's Art of Living Foundation). Yolanda > > King, > > > > colourful in a JJ Valaya crinkled crepe skirt, > > tunic > > > > and jacket in a melange of saffron and green > > with > > > === message truncated === > > > > > The New with improved product search > > > Sponsor [click here] > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > Ammachi > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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