Guest guest Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 Namaste to all... _/\_ I was wondering if anyone ever has moments of wavering faith. I seem to be in a state right now where my faith in Amma is wavering, no matter how much I want to be near her in my head, my heart seems to be elsewhere. I guess I am bogged down by something. I don't know how to get through this strange state; just last week, the sight of our Ma singing bhajans brought me to tears and now I am feeling no connection. How to get through this state and return to Ma? Hopefully, Erica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 Ammachi, "Erica" <sugarandbrine> wrote: > Namaste to all... _/\_ > > I was wondering if anyone ever has moments of wavering faith. I seem > to be in a state right now where my faith in Amma is wavering, no > matter how much I want to be near her in my head, my heart seems to > be elsewhere. I guess I am bogged down by something. Is it not the other way around? You would want to be near her in your heart, but your head seems to be elsewhere. > I don't know how to get through this strange state; just last week, the sight of our Ma singing bhajans brought me to tears and now I am feeling no connection. How to get through this state and return to Ma? > > Hopefully, > Erica Surrender is the only key. Be a witness to your own wanderings. Eventually, the turbelence of the mind wanes, as it has to. You will then feel the connection again. Deep breaths are helpful; suspending thoughts and judgments (especially about yourself) is critical. Above all, cry out to Her to help you out. When you get a hang of the 'skill' (a better word than 'technique'), you will observe that it lesser time to "come out of it" than when you did it initially. BTW, these are not time-tested skills in the sense that they have been tested across a cross-section of people over time, just some that I have applied to myself intuitively in my life. They work reasonably well for me, which is not to say that they will work for everyone. Good luck! Ramana Maharishi often said that a sadhak's life is a constant oscillation between internal bliss and external sensory enjoyments. This "tug of war" has a strain on the nerves, which sometimes exhibits as exasperation, anger, helplessness (as in your case above), or other such negative attitudes. He has a simple but seemingly harsh solution: You need to keep working on it till the conflict ends. And he assures us that it will, if we keep trying. When you think of it, that is the best solution.... The only thing is you need to keep your energy level high and your chin up. . Jai Ma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 Namaste Erica, I also have periods like that. I think that's why spiritual practice is important, it carries us across those times and also helps diminish them over time. I notice my faith starts wavering more when I don't chant my mantra regularly, so that's the least I do, even if it's on my way to work! It's also the reason I've been thinking of going to church on Sundays; so I have a regular weekly practice... I'm also planning on buying photos and puja tools so I can do more at home on my own. Anyway, this is just my solution and I offer it in case it helps you. Also, like you said, listening to bhajans moved you. So listen to them more. When I'm on my computer, I surf over to the Amma website for Europe (http://www.amma-europe.com/) and click on the Amma-Radio link so I can listen while I'm online. I hope this helps! Gabriela --- Erica <sugarandbrine wrote: > Namaste to all... _/\_ > > I was wondering if anyone ever has moments of > wavering faith. I seem > to be in a state right now where my faith in Amma is > wavering, no > matter how much I want to be near her in my head, my > heart seems to > be elsewhere. I guess I am bogged down by something. > > > I don't know how to get through this strange state; > just last week, > the sight of our Ma singing bhajans brought me to > tears and now I am > feeling no connection. > > How to get through this state and return to Ma? > > Hopefully, > Erica > > The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:15:32 +0000, Erica <sugarandbrine wrote: > Namaste to all... _/\_ > > I was wondering if anyone ever has moments of wavering faith. I seem > to be in a state right now where my faith in Amma is wavering, no > matter how much I want to be near her in my head, my heart seems to > be elsewhere. I guess I am bogged down by something. > > I don't know how to get through this strange state; just last week, > the sight of our Ma singing bhajans brought me to tears and now I am > feeling no connection. > > How to get through this state and return to Ma? Namaste, Knowledge is more fundamental than faith. What do you know - not what do you believe - about Amma.Everyone's answer will be different, so what do you know about Amma? Try and find a simple way of answering in a few words. It's probably not all that complicated. For me, she is mother. That was the fundamental condition of our meeting, and everything else follows, by way of implication and faith, perspective on life and religion, India and the world. Faith follows from knowledge. What do you know? Regards, Ramlal -- Aum Amriteshvaryai Namah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 Ammachi, Ramlal <conte@i...> wrote: > On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:15:32 +0000, Erica <sugarandbrine> wrote: > > > Namaste to all... _/\_ > > > > I was wondering if anyone ever has moments of wavering faith. I seem > > to be in a state right now where my faith in Amma is wavering, no > > matter how much I want to be near her in my head, my heart seems to > > be elsewhere. I guess I am bogged down by something. > > > > I don't know how to get through this strange state; just last week, > > the sight of our Ma singing bhajans brought me to tears and now I am > > feeling no connection. > > > > How to get through this state and return to Ma? > > Namaste, > > Knowledge is more fundamental than faith. What do you know - not what do > you believe - about Amma.Everyone's answer will be different, so what do > you know about Amma? Try and find a simple way of answering in a few > words. It's probably not all that complicated. > > For me, she is mother. That was the fundamental condition of our meeting, > and everything else follows, by way of implication and faith, perspective > on life and religion, India and the world. > > Faith follows from knowledge. What do you know? > > Regards, > Ramlal > > > -- > Aum Amriteshvaryai Namah! I agree, faith is in what others know, trusting that what they say is true until you know it for yourself. For me, Amma is bliss consciousness, healing energy. That's how I relate to her, she is transcendent beingness, a 10 on the richter scale :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 Jai Erica: I don't know how to get through this strange state; just last week, the sight of our Ma singing bhajans brought me to tears and now I am feeling no connection. If I may venture ... we are always connected with Amma. We may not always "feel" connected! The connection we share with Amma is beyong emotion and feeling. Om Amriteshwariyai Namaha! Kandar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 Namah Shivaya, > I agree, faith is in what others know, trusting that what they say > is true until you know it for yourself. For me, Amma is bliss > consciousness, healing energy. That's how I relate to her, she is > transcendent beingness, a 10 on the richter scale :-) Several speakers at AV50 referred to Amma as CEO: "Chief Enlightenment Officer". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 on 10/2/03 7:56 AM, manoj_menon at manoj_menon wrote: > > Ramana Maharishi often said that a sadhak's life is a constant > oscillation between internal bliss and external sensory enjoyments. > This "tug of war" has a strain on the nerves, which sometimes > exhibits as exasperation, anger, helplessness (as in your case > above), or other such negative attitudes. > > He has a simple but seemingly harsh solution: You need to keep > working on it till the conflict ends. And he assures us that it > will, if we keep trying. > My former teacher often used the analogy of dying a cloth to explain how ³internal bliss² eventually gets stabilized in the midst of ³sensory enjoyments²: you dip it in the dye, bleach it in the sun, dip it again, bleach it again, etc., until it becomes colorfast. Like that you dive into inner bliss on a regular basis by whatever means you have chosen (e.g., meditation) and then engage in activity. Eventually, the two states merge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 If I may venture an opinion: the real Amma is beyond emotion. Emotions, by their very nature, are bound to waver. It would be unnatural and impossible to sustain any emotion perpetually. Amma herself doesn¹t do it; her emotions change moment by moment. But obviously, underlying those, is something that doesn¹t change. That¹s the real Amma and that¹s what she wants us to realize. on 10/2/03 10:20 PM, KandarW at KandarW wrote: > Jai Erica: > I don't know how to get through this strange state; just last week, > the sight of our Ma singing bhajans brought me to tears and now I am > feeling no connection. > If I may venture ... we are always connected with Amma. We may not always > "feel" connected! The connection we share with Amma is beyong emotion and > feeling. > > Om Amriteshwariyai Namaha! > > Kandar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 I think Amma is Emotion. But if you want to consider ordinary human emotions, those depend on what inner control an individual has vs. the transient world. Emotion is a divine feeling, like an umbilical cord to heaven, but it's also very base connector to the world when you consider fear, jealousy, anxiousness. Emotion is Maya, and Maya is Mother. I think we ebb and flow everywhere with everything until we reach the shore of liberation. The colorfast analogy was great! When I quit smoking, it would be just a matter of time before i'd get an urge, get psycho over the urge (yes, no, yes, no) and finally buy or bum some ciggies. Now I'm where I get the urge, observe it, and let it pass without worry. One day I imagine that I won't even get the urge.. and I have no idea why i'm writing this.. oh yeah, something to do with wavering.. Jai Ma! In a message dated 10/17/03 11:25:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Ammachi writes: << Message: 5 Fri, 17 Oct 2003 19:52:42 -0500 Rick Archer <rick Re: Wavering If I may venture an opinion: the real Amma is beyond emotion. Emotions, by their very nature, are bound to waver. It would be unnatural and impossible to sustain any emotion perpetually. Amma herself doesn¹t do it; her emotions change moment by moment. But obviously, underlying those, is something that doesn¹t change. That¹s the real Amma and that¹s what she wants us to realize. >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 Thank you Rick for typing this! Very well said! fantastic!!! In Loves Service malati In a message dated 10/17/03 8:30:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rick writes: << on 10/2/03 7:56 AM, manoj_menon at manoj_menon wrote: > > Ramana Maharishi often said that a sadhak's life is a constant > oscillation between internal bliss and external sensory enjoyments. > This "tug of war" has a strain on the nerves, which sometimes > exhibits as exasperation, anger, helplessness (as in your case > above), or other such negative attitudes. > > He has a simple but seemingly harsh solution: You need to keep > working on it till the conflict ends. And he assures us that it > will, if we keep trying. > My former teacher often used the analogy of dying a cloth to explain how ³internal bliss² eventually gets stabilized in the midst of ³sensory enjoyments²: you dip it in the dye, bleach it in the sun, dip it again, bleach it again, etc., until it becomes colorfast. Like that you dive into inner bliss on a regular basis by whatever means you have chosen (e.g., meditation) and then engage in activity. Eventually, the two states merge. >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 on 10/17/03 11:55 PM, Dianadevi at Dianadevi wrote: > I think Amma is Emotion. > You may associate her with an emotion, but don¹t you agree that essentially, she is Pure Consciousness, the indweller in all beings? The start of this thread was your lament that due to wavering, you felt you were losing your connection to Amma, at least periodically. I¹m suggesting that the ultimate solution to the problem is to awaken to your true identity as Pure Consciousness. Then regardless of changing emotions, you will be inseparably connected with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 >From a recent article. Jai Ma, Ravi Even as She sat, satsang began: "Which are the qualities necessary for one to develop devotion? Are they sufficient for one to reach the goal?" She wanted Her children to respond. Brahmacharis and brahmacharinis responded. One explained the six necessary qualities: shama (control of mind); dama (control of sense organs); titiksha (enduring all sorrow and suffering without complaint); uparathi (withdrawal); shraddha (faith in scriptures and Guru's words and diligence in thought, word, and deed); and samadhan (equanimity of mind). Another put these in a larger context: a sadhak needs viveka (discrimination); vairagya (detachment); the six aforementioned qualities, and mumukshutwa (a burning desire for liberation). Another took a non-Vedantic perspective, focusing on the importance of love for Guru and God. All stressed the importance of faithful obedience to the Master as the greatest prerequisite for any form of sadhana. "The Guru's words are the ultimate," said one. "The Guru's words are scripture." Amma integrated all these answers, saying that love is the first prerequisite. If one has love for God or Guru, all these qualities will follow. Without love, none of them can be cultivated. To cultivate these qualities, one should never lose sight of discrimination, which comes from an attitude of surrender to the Beloved. Amma also spoke about the need for control of the senses, especially of the tongue, both in talking needlessly as well as eating tasty food. Restraint practised in regard to the tongue would surely help one to progress spiritually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2003 Report Share Posted October 19, 2003 Yeah, I think Ma is Pure Consciousness, but i think that pure emotion, not emotion as generated by the senses, but emotion generated by longing for the divine (bhakti)is a ladder. I just wanted to point out that I see a difference in, or more correctly a deffiecinecy in the english word for "emotion" as describing what you were trying to convey about Mother being beyond emotions. Essentially I agree with you. BTW, I'm not the original lamentor.. don't know who stared this thread. And what's going on with your writer friend Susan, how is she doing? Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote: > on 10/17/03 11:55 PM, Dianadevi@a... at Dianadevi@a... wrote: > > > I think Amma is Emotion. > > > You may associate her with an emotion, but don¹t you agree that essentially, > she is Pure Consciousness, the indweller in all beings? The start of this > thread was your lament that due to wavering, you felt you were losing your > connection to Amma, at least periodically. I¹m suggesting that the ultimate > solution to the problem is to awaken to your true identity as Pure > Consciousness. Then regardless of changing emotions, you will be inseparably > connected with her. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2003 Report Share Posted October 19, 2003 on 10/19/03 10:52 AM, Amarthya at Dianadevi wrote: > Yeah, I think Ma is Pure Consciousness, but i think that pure > emotion, not emotion as generated by the senses, but emotion > generated by longing for the divine (bhakti)is a ladder. I just > wanted to point out that I see a difference in, or more correctly a > deffiecinecy in the english word for "emotion" as describing what you > were trying to convey about Mother being beyond emotions. Essentially > I agree with you. > I totally agree with you. Bhakti is a rocket ship. > And what's going on with your writer friend Susan, how is she doing? > Not sure who you mean. Please refresh my memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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