Guest guest Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 I think anything from ISKCON is very fundamentalist in Vaisnavism. Nothing funny about fundamentalists if you ask me, so watch out & take ISKCON stuff with a grain of salt if you are not a Prabhupadite (and I mean no offense by that). They consider Lord Shiva and Devi Mata to be demigods and Shaivism, Sri Vidya, Tantra and Advaita anything outside of their faith as wicky wacky or even evil stuff, beneath and adverse to the Vedas. Much of their literature has such a huge bias that way. I just attended a wedding at the isckon temple where I worship and the pundit had to go on apologetically about why we were going to recite the Gayatri Mantra in the case of the wedding - quote>"even though it has nothing to do with Lord Krishna and although it seems basically to be the worship of demigods"... and then everyone fumbled through it confused. So why do they recite it then? Seems like since they are creating a new religion from Hinduism, it's time to get a new shtick for some old ritual. (And I'm a hypocrite bigger than the hypocrites because I go there - an unbelieving dirty Shakta heathen!!! Sorry for abusing you all with this Maha tangent - must be up past bedtime again). Lord Shiva, Lord Visnu, Shakthi Mata, the God of Abraham, Ahura Mazda, Zeus etc. are equal but different and I really can't stand anti-(your belief system here) bias and any disrespectful, intolerant and degrading stance of any group to another. Unless you're a Republican, in that case I don't like you very much. just kidding I Love ALL of you Devis and Devas Jai Ma! In a message dated 10/13/03 3:20:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Ammachi writes: << Message: 8 Sun, 12 Oct 2003 23:45:24 -0700 (PDT) Ganesha Udupa <udupag Re: Digest Number 963 Hari om Namaha Shivaya Below is the mail sent by one Hare Krishna friend about Advaita philosophy, throwing some light on it, just I am forwarding for the discussion,(no affending anyone), if interested I will forward the remaining parts. most interested topic which made me confused was Lord Siva's instruction as > in Padma Purana, where Lord Shiva tells Parvati Devi: > srnu devi pravaksyami > tamasani yatha-kramam > yesam sravana-matrena > patityam jnaninam api > apartham sruti-vakyanam > darsayal loka-garhitam > karma-svarupa-tyajyatvam > atra ca pratipadyate > sarva-karma-paribhramsan > naiskarmyam tatra cocyate > paratma-jivayor aikyam > mayatra pratipadyate > "My dear wife, hear my explanations of how I have > spread ignorance > through mayavada philosophy. Simply by hearing it, > even an advanced > scholar will fall down. In this philosophy, which is > certainly very > inauspicious for people in general, I have > misrepresented the real > meaning of the Vedas and recommended that one give > up all activities in > order to achieve freedom from karma. In this > mayavada philosophy I have > described the jivatma and Paramatma to be one and > the same." whats your openion? In Amma's love Ganesh >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 Dear Devi why do you so furious on me. Shanti Shanti Shanti!!!. In fact all are children of Amma, whether they are from ISKCOn or some other organisation. All philosophies finally culminates in God, let us think that all leads to HIM. What is the real(true) philosophy only we know when we get realisation, till then as Sri Adi shankara said we repeat "Bhaja govindam Bhaja Govindam Bhaja Govindam...." any one has read Padma purana, if so share us what's there in it!. Jai ma & Jai Gopal Ganesh --- Dianadevi wrote: > I think anything from ISKCON is very fundamentalist > in Vaisnavism. Nothing > funny about fundamentalists if you ask me, so watch > out & take ISKCON stuff with > a grain of salt if you are not a Prabhupadite (and I > mean no offense by > that). > They consider Lord Shiva and Devi Mata to be > demigods and Shaivism, Sri > Vidya, Tantra and Advaita anything outside of their > faith as wicky wacky or even > evil stuff, beneath and adverse to the Vedas. Much > of their literature has such > a huge bias that way. I just attended a wedding at > the isckon temple where I > worship and the pundit had to go on apologetically > about why we were going to > recite the Gayatri Mantra in the case of the wedding > - quote>"even though it > has nothing to do with Lord Krishna and although it > seems basically to be the > worship of demigods"... and then everyone fumbled > through it confused. So why do > they recite it then? Seems like since they are > creating a new religion from > Hinduism, it's time to get a new shtick for some old > ritual. (And I'm a > hypocrite bigger than the hypocrites because I go > there - an unbelieving dirty Shakta > heathen!!! Sorry for abusing you all with this Maha > tangent - must be up past > bedtime again). > > Lord Shiva, Lord Visnu, Shakthi Mata, the God of > Abraham, Ahura Mazda, Zeus > etc. are equal but different and I really can't > stand anti-(your belief system > here) bias and any disrespectful, intolerant and > degrading stance of any group > to another. Unless you're a Republican, in that case > I don't like you very > much. > > just kidding > > I Love ALL of you Devis and Devas > > Jai Ma! > > In a message dated 10/13/03 3:20:11 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, > Ammachi writes: > > << Message: 8 > Sun, 12 Oct 2003 23:45:24 -0700 (PDT) > Ganesha Udupa <udupag > Re: Digest Number 963 > > Hari om Namaha Shivaya > Below is the mail sent by one Hare Krishna friend > about Advaita philosophy, throwing some light on > it, > just I am forwarding for the discussion,(no > affending > anyone), if interested I will forward the remaining > parts. > > most interested topic which made me confused was > Lord > Siva's instruction as > > > in Padma Purana, where Lord Shiva tells Parvati > Devi: > > srnu devi pravaksyami > > tamasani yatha-kramam > > yesam sravana-matrena > > patityam jnaninam api > > apartham sruti-vakyanam > > darsayal loka-garhitam > > karma-svarupa-tyajyatvam > > atra ca pratipadyate > > sarva-karma-paribhramsan > > naiskarmyam tatra cocyate > > paratma-jivayor aikyam > > mayatra pratipadyate > > "My dear wife, hear my explanations of how I have > > spread ignorance > > through mayavada philosophy. Simply by hearing > it, > > even an advanced > > scholar will fall down. In this philosophy, which > is > > certainly very > > inauspicious for people in general, I have > > misrepresented the real > > meaning of the Vedas and recommended that one > give > > up all activities in > > order to achieve freedom from karma. In this > > mayavada philosophy I have > > described the jivatma and Paramatma to be one and > > the same." > > whats your openion? > > In Amma's love > Ganesh >> > The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 --- Dianadevi wrote: > I think anything from ISKCON is very fundamentalist > in Vaisnavism. Nothing > funny about fundamentalists if you ask me, so watch > out & take ISKCON stuff with > a grain of salt if you are not a Prabhupadite (and I > mean no offense by > that). > They consider Lord Shiva and Devi Mata to be > demigods and Shaivism, Sri > Vidya, Tantra and Advaita anything outside of their > faith as wicky wacky or even > evil stuff, beneath and adverse to the Vedas. Much > of their literature has such > a huge bias that way. I just attended a wedding at > the isckon temple where I > worship and the pundit had to go on apologetically > about why we were going to > recite the Gayatri Mantra in the case of the wedding > - quote>"even though it > has nothing to do with Lord Krishna and although it > seems basically to be the > worship of demigods"... and then everyone fumbled > through it confused. So why do > they recite it then? Seems like since they are > creating a new religion from > Hinduism, it's time to get a new shtick for some old > ritual. (And I'm a > hypocrite bigger than the hypocrites because I go > there - an unbelieving dirty Shakta > heathen!!! Sorry for abusing you all with this Maha > tangent - must be up past > bedtime again). > > Lord Shiva, Lord Visnu, Shakthi Mata, the God of > Abraham, Ahura Mazda, Zeus > etc. are equal but different and I really can't > stand anti-(your belief system > here) bias and any disrespectful, intolerant and > degrading stance of any group > to another. Unless you're a Republican, in that case > I don't like you very > much. > > just kidding > > I Love ALL of you Devis and Devas > > Jai Ma! Thanks for your response Dianadevi. I did not find time to respond Ganesha's posting. People from ISKCON generally regard Shiva as demi god. Most of their literature is anti Adi Sankara. In fact one should read "Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna",where there are numerous instances lampooing shakta devotees. On the other hand, I never came across an instance where Shankaracharyas of various matts critisizing Vishnu. Its always from the vaishnavites. ISKCON has their bagavad gita labled "Bagvad Gita as it is" indicating that their translation alone is pure one, but not from advaita traditions. Perhaps most absurd feautre from ISKCON is their total rejection and denouincing of Yoga, meditation and pranayama. They belive that this is Kali yuga, Yoga is not the path for mukthi, only bakthi leads to mukthi. Their literature always as an undercurrent of fundamentalism, anything besides Vishnu is demi god or fake. Advaita is always combibed with aethestic Buddism and wipped time and again. I wonder what ISKCON people regard Ammachi as? Regards Avinash. > > In a message dated 10/13/03 3:20:11 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, > Ammachi writes: > > << Message: 8 > Sun, 12 Oct 2003 23:45:24 -0700 (PDT) > Ganesha Udupa <udupag > Re: Digest Number 963 > > Hari om Namaha Shivaya > Below is the mail sent by one Hare Krishna friend > about Advaita philosophy, throwing some light on > it, > just I am forwarding for the discussion,(no > affending > anyone), if interested I will forward the remaining > parts. > > most interested topic which made me confused was > Lord > Siva's instruction as > > > in Padma Purana, where Lord Shiva tells Parvati > Devi: > > srnu devi pravaksyami > > tamasani yatha-kramam > > yesam sravana-matrena > > patityam jnaninam api > > apartham sruti-vakyanam > > darsayal loka-garhitam > > karma-svarupa-tyajyatvam > > atra ca pratipadyate > > sarva-karma-paribhramsan > > naiskarmyam tatra cocyate > > paratma-jivayor aikyam > > mayatra pratipadyate > > "My dear wife, hear my explanations of how I have > > spread ignorance > > through mayavada philosophy. Simply by hearing > it, > > even an advanced > > scholar will fall down. In this philosophy, which > is > > certainly very > > inauspicious for people in general, I have > > misrepresented the real > > meaning of the Vedas and recommended that one > give > > up all activities in > > order to achieve freedom from karma. In this > > mayavada philosophy I have > > described the jivatma and Paramatma to be one and > > the same." > > whats your openion? > > In Amma's love > Ganesh >> > The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 I hung out with some devotees of a pre-ISKON disciple of Prabhupad who is considered "a bonifide spiritual master" in his circle. They used to tell me that the path to God was disciplic and that you had to find a "real lover of God" with a true lineage. Of course, their master was one such fellow and they couldn't think of a single other. They said that non-dual philosophy was only partly true, and that it would keep people away from truly getting to be with God. Personally, I think both are correct depending on one's karma in life. All paths lead to God. I like this story re-told in The Complete Idiots Guide to Hinduism: ### In one very well-known story, the deva rishi Narada got so fed up with the devotees of Shiva and Vishnu squabbling with each other about which of their gods was higher that he decided to resolve the question for once and for all. At this juncture in history, the god Vishnu was incarnating on Earth in the form of a prince named Rama, who was wandering in the forest with his wife, Sita. This seemed like a good place to catch up with Vishnu, who is otherwise quite busy running the universe. So Narada teleported to the forest where he wound up having to wait several hours to get Rama's attention. Rama was in the middle of making offerings into the sacred fire, an age-old religious ritual. When he finally finished, he ran over to Narada and apologized. "Sir, I'm so sorry to have kept you waiting! I was performing my daily worship to Lord Shiva." Narada was delighted! Here was his answer without his even having to ask. Rama, who is the embodiment of Vishnu, considered Shiva a greater god than Vishnu himself! Narada immediately teleported to heaven to tell Shiva the exciting news. But there he found he also had to wait. Shiva doesn't run the universe (that's Vishnu's job). Shiva is the transcendent reality who sits away from the world, always engaged in meditation. Finally the Lord opened His eyes, and looked up and saw the rishi. "Oh Narada, I'm sorry I kept you waiting!" Shiva apologized. "I just couldn't tear myself away from meditating on the lotus feet of Lord Rama!" ### Ramakrishna even sampled various religions and found them to be different paths to enlightenment. In his life, he "tested three great faiths, Hinduism, Islam, and Christianity. He found, through direct experiential practice, that although each religion differed drastically in doctrine, all of them were legitimate spiritual paths. Any one of them could do the job of brining us home to God." ### So, I guess what I'm saying is that whatever ISKON folks believe has no bearing on me. They are simply following another path, albeit it one I don't understand, deserving of the same respect as all paths - even if part of their doctrine involves "debunking" other doctrines. Now, I say all that meaning only their philosophy and practice of such; abuses that take place within and behind closed doors are everyone's concern, especially where children are involved. Otherwise they can say whatever they want. "Nothings gonna change my world." John Lennon (wish that were as easy as it sounds!) Also a hypocrite, But with love, Gabriela --- avinash ramidi <avinash7_99 wrote: > > --- Dianadevi wrote: > > I think anything from ISKCON is very > fundamentalist > > in Vaisnavism. Nothing > > funny about fundamentalists if you ask me, so > watch > > out & take ISKCON stuff with > > a grain of salt if you are not a Prabhupadite (and > I > > mean no offense by > > that). > > They consider Lord Shiva and Devi Mata to be > > demigods and Shaivism, Sri > > Vidya, Tantra and Advaita anything outside of > their > > faith as wicky wacky or even > > evil stuff, beneath and adverse to the Vedas. Much > > of their literature has such > > a huge bias that way. I just attended a wedding at > > the isckon temple where I > > worship and the pundit had to go on apologetically > > about why we were going to > > recite the Gayatri Mantra in the case of the > wedding > > - quote>"even though it > > has nothing to do with Lord Krishna and although > it > > seems basically to be the > > worship of demigods"... and then everyone fumbled > > through it confused. So why do > > they recite it then? Seems like since they are > > creating a new religion from > > Hinduism, it's time to get a new shtick for some > old > > ritual. (And I'm a > > hypocrite bigger than the hypocrites because I go > > there - an unbelieving dirty Shakta > > heathen!!! Sorry for abusing you all with this > Maha > > tangent - must be up past > > bedtime again). > > > > Lord Shiva, Lord Visnu, Shakthi Mata, the God of > > Abraham, Ahura Mazda, Zeus > > etc. are equal but different and I really can't > > stand anti-(your belief system > > here) bias and any disrespectful, intolerant and > > degrading stance of any group > > to another. Unless you're a Republican, in that > case > > I don't like you very > > much. > > > > just kidding > > > > I Love ALL of you Devis and Devas > > > > Jai Ma! > > Thanks for your response Dianadevi. I did not find > time to respond Ganesha's posting. People from > ISKCON > generally regard Shiva as demi god. Most of their > literature is anti Adi Sankara. In fact one should > read "Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna",where there are > numerous instances lampooing shakta devotees. On the > other hand, I never came across an instance where > Shankaracharyas of various matts critisizing Vishnu. > Its always from the vaishnavites. ISKCON has their > bagavad gita labled "Bagvad Gita as it is" > indicating > that their translation alone is pure one, but not > from > advaita traditions. > > Perhaps most absurd feautre from ISKCON is their > total > rejection and denouincing of Yoga, meditation and > pranayama. They belive that this is Kali yuga, Yoga > is not the path for mukthi, only bakthi leads to > mukthi. Their literature always as an undercurrent > of > fundamentalism, anything besides Vishnu is demi god > or > fake. Advaita is always combibed with aethestic > Buddism and wipped time and again. I wonder what > ISKCON people regard Ammachi as? > > Regards > Avinash. > > > > In a message dated 10/13/03 3:20:11 AM Eastern > > Daylight Time, > > Ammachi writes: > > > > << Message: 8 > > Sun, 12 Oct 2003 23:45:24 -0700 (PDT) > > Ganesha Udupa <udupag > > Re: Digest Number 963 > > > > Hari om Namaha Shivaya > > Below is the mail sent by one Hare Krishna friend > > about Advaita philosophy, throwing some light on > > it, > > just I am forwarding for the discussion,(no > > affending > > anyone), if interested I will forward the > remaining > > parts. > > > > most interested topic which made me confused was > > Lord > > Siva's instruction as > > > > > in Padma Purana, where Lord Shiva tells Parvati > > Devi: > > > srnu devi pravaksyami > > > tamasani yatha-kramam > > > yesam sravana-matrena > > > patityam jnaninam api > > > apartham sruti-vakyanam > > > darsayal loka-garhitam > > > karma-svarupa-tyajyatvam > > > atra ca pratipadyate > > > sarva-karma-paribhramsan > > > naiskarmyam tatra cocyate > > > paratma-jivayor aikyam > > > mayatra pratipadyate > > > "My dear wife, hear my explanations of how I > have > > > spread ignorance > > > through mayavada philosophy. Simply by hearing > > it, > > > even an advanced > > > scholar will fall down. In this philosophy, > which > > is > > > certainly very > > > inauspicious for people in general, I have > > > misrepresented the real > > > meaning of the Vedas and recommended that one > > give > > > up all activities in > > > order to achieve freedom from karma. In this > > > mayavada philosophy I have > > > described the jivatma and Paramatma to be one > and > > > the same." > > > > whats your openion? > > > > In Amma's love > > Ganesh >> > > > > > > > The New with improved product > search > > The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 Actually right now, Shiva and Vishnu are not worshipping each other- they are too busy adoring the Latest and Greatest avatar to have set foot on earth- AMMA !!!!! LOL . Just kidding .... On a serious note, Amma once told me ( in 1995 summer) that the varous Gods of hinduism are all the "same chocolate wrapped in different wrappers" to suit the tastes of the people .... She told me "Parama Sathyam Eka Vasthu " which means "the Supreme Truth is ONE entity"... bala I hung out with some devotees of a pre-ISKON disciple of Prabhupad who is considered "a bonifide spiritual master" in his circle. They used to tell me that the path to God was disciplic and that you had to find a "real lover of God" with a true lineage. Of course, their master was one such fellow and they couldn't think of a single other. They said that non-dual philosophy was only partly true, and that it would keep people away from truly getting to be with God. Personally, I think both are correct depending on one's karma in life. All paths lead to God. I like this story re-told in The Complete Idiots Guide to Hinduism: ### In one very well-known story, the deva rishi Narada got so fed up with the devotees of Shiva and Vishnu squabbling with each other about which of their gods was higher that he decided to resolve the question for once and for all. At this juncture in history, the god Vishnu was incarnating on Earth in the form of a prince named Rama, who was wandering in the forest with his wife, Sita. This seemed like a good place to catch up with Vishnu, who is otherwise quite busy running the universe. So Narada teleported to the forest where he wound up having to wait several hours to get Rama's attention. Rama was in the middle of making offerings into the sacred fire, an age-old religious ritual. When he finally finished, he ran over to Narada and apologized. "Sir, I'm so sorry to have kept you waiting! I was performing my daily worship to Lord Shiva." Narada was delighted! Here was his answer without his even having to ask. Rama, who is the embodiment of Vishnu, considered Shiva a greater god than Vishnu himself! Narada immediately teleported to heaven to tell Shiva the exciting news. But there he found he also had to wait. Shiva doesn't run the universe (that's Vishnu's job). Shiva is the transcendent reality who sits away from the world, always engaged in meditation. Finally the Lord opened His eyes, and looked up and saw the rishi. "Oh Narada, I'm sorry I kept you waiting!" Shiva apologized. "I just couldn't tear myself away from meditating on the lotus feet of Lord Rama!" ### Ramakrishna even sampled various religions and found them to be different paths to enlightenment. In his life, he "tested three great faiths, Hinduism, Islam, and Christianity. He found, through direct experiential practice, that although each religion differed drastically in doctrine, all of them were legitimate spiritual paths. Any one of them could do the job of brining us home to God." ### So, I guess what I'm saying is that whatever ISKON folks believe has no bearing on me. They are simply following another path, albeit it one I don't understand, deserving of the same respect as all paths - even if part of their doctrine involves "debunking" other doctrines. Now, I say all that meaning only their philosophy and practice of such; abuses that take place within and behind closed doors are everyone's concern, especially where children are involved. Otherwise they can say whatever they want. "Nothings gonna change my world." John Lennon (wish that were as easy as it sounds!) Also a hypocrite, But with love, Gabriela --- avinash ramidi <avinash7_99 wrote: > > --- Dianadevi wrote: > > I think anything from ISKCON is very > fundamentalist > > in Vaisnavism. Nothing > > funny about fundamentalists if you ask me, so > watch > > out & take ISKCON stuff with > > a grain of salt if you are not a Prabhupadite (and > I > > mean no offense by > > that). > > They consider Lord Shiva and Devi Mata to be > > demigods and Shaivism, Sri > > Vidya, Tantra and Advaita anything outside of > their > > faith as wicky wacky or even > > evil stuff, beneath and adverse to the Vedas. Much > > of their literature has such > > a huge bias that way. I just attended a wedding at > > the isckon temple where I > > worship and the pundit had to go on apologetically > > about why we were going to > > recite the Gayatri Mantra in the case of the > wedding > > - quote>"even though it > > has nothing to do with Lord Krishna and although > it > > seems basically to be the > > worship of demigods"... and then everyone fumbled > > through it confused. So why do > > they recite it then? Seems like since they are > > creating a new religion from > > Hinduism, it's time to get a new shtick for some > old > > ritual. (And I'm a > > hypocrite bigger than the hypocrites because I go > > there - an unbelieving dirty Shakta > > heathen!!! Sorry for abusing you all with this > Maha > > tangent - must be up past > > bedtime again). > > > > Lord Shiva, Lord Visnu, Shakthi Mata, the God of > > Abraham, Ahura Mazda, Zeus > > etc. are equal but different and I really can't > > stand anti-(your belief system > > here) bias and any disrespectful, intolerant and > > degrading stance of any group > > to another. Unless you're a Republican, in that > case > > I don't like you very > > much. > > > > just kidding > > > > I Love ALL of you Devis and Devas > > > > Jai Ma! > > Thanks for your response Dianadevi. I did not find > time to respond Ganesha's posting. People from > ISKCON > generally regard Shiva as demi god. Most of their > literature is anti Adi Sankara. In fact one should > read "Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna",where there are > numerous instances lampooing shakta devotees. On the > other hand, I never came across an instance where > Shankaracharyas of various matts critisizing Vishnu. > Its always from the vaishnavites. ISKCON has their > bagavad gita labled "Bagvad Gita as it is" > indicating > that their translation alone is pure one, but not > from > advaita traditions. > > Perhaps most absurd feautre from ISKCON is their > total > rejection and denouincing of Yoga, meditation and > pranayama. They belive that this is Kali yuga, Yoga > is not the path for mukthi, only bakthi leads to > mukthi. Their literature always as an undercurrent > of > fundamentalism, anything besides Vishnu is demi god > or > fake. Advaita is always combibed with aethestic > Buddism and wipped time and again. I wonder what > ISKCON people regard Ammachi as? > > Regards > Avinash. > > > > In a message dated 10/13/03 3:20:11 AM Eastern > > Daylight Time, > > Ammachi writes: > > > > << Message: 8 > > Sun, 12 Oct 2003 23:45:24 -0700 (PDT) > > Ganesha Udupa <udupag > > Re: Digest Number 963 > > > > Hari om Namaha Shivaya > > Below is the mail sent by one Hare Krishna friend > > about Advaita philosophy, throwing some light on > > it, > > just I am forwarding for the discussion,(no > > affending > > anyone), if interested I will forward the > remaining > > parts. > > > > most interested topic which made me confused was > > Lord > > Siva's instruction as > > > > > in Padma Purana, where Lord Shiva tells Parvati > > Devi: > > > srnu devi pravaksyami > > > tamasani yatha-kramam > > > yesam sravana-matrena > > > patityam jnaninam api > > > apartham sruti-vakyanam > > > darsayal loka-garhitam > > > karma-svarupa-tyajyatvam > > > atra ca pratipadyate > > > sarva-karma-paribhramsan > > > naiskarmyam tatra cocyate > > > paratma-jivayor aikyam > > > mayatra pratipadyate > > > "My dear wife, hear my explanations of how I > have > > > spread ignorance > > > through mayavada philosophy. Simply by hearing > > it, > > > even an advanced > > > scholar will fall down. In this philosophy, > which > > is > > > certainly very > > > inauspicious for people in general, I have > > > misrepresented the real > > > meaning of the Vedas and recommended that one > > give > > > up all activities in > > > order to achieve freedom from karma. In this > > > mayavada philosophy I have > > > described the jivatma and Paramatma to be one > and > > > the same." > > > > whats your openion? > > > > In Amma's love > > Ganesh >> > > > > > > > The New with improved product > search > > The New with improved product search Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 Ammachi, avinash ramidi <avinash7_99> wrote: > Perhaps most absurd feautre from ISKCON is their total > rejection and denouincing of Yoga, meditation and > pranayama. They belive that this is Kali yuga, Yoga > is not the path for mukthi, only bakthi leads to > mukthi. Their literature always as an undercurrent of > fundamentalism, anything besides Vishnu is demi god or > fake. Advaita is always combibed with aethestic > Buddism and wipped time and again. I wonder what > ISKCON people regard Ammachi as? > > Regards > Avinash. En route to India once, I met an ISCKON devotee in Heathrow airport. He was very interested in making me come to the Charni Road satsang (in Mumbai) of ISCKON, but I was hard-pressed for time. I also told him that I am a devotee of Amma. His face fell slightly. But he made a remark that I found amusing: "If you find a diamond in the morass, then that too is ok". I guess it implied he had respect for Amma, but not for her devotees.... His opinion anyway did not matter to me. About ISCKON itself, what I feel is that from common sensibilities, it looks like ISCKON may be bigoted. But there is no denying their love of Krishna (Krsna in their terminology). I guess that love is the single most important factor; God looks only at that and thus exhorts us to look at that too. In fact, it reminds me of Kamsa, Krishna's maternal uncle. Kamsa is said to have received mukti because Narayana himself came down to earth to slay him. The reason Narayana had to come down to slay him was because Kamsa's intense hatred of Krishna made him one- pointed in his thinking of Krishna (Narayana)! Oh! do we bhaktas and yogis not strive to achieve a similar one-pointedness? For the lord, the flavour of the one-pointedness did not matter (love or hatred), but the one-pointedness itself. Narayana was forced to come down and slay him as a result of that intense concentration on him! That was a benefit even Bhishma did not have. In the Kurushetra war when Krishna, perceiving Arjuna's reluctance to fight Bhishma, charged down the battefield with his Sudarshana Chakra towards Bhishma with the intent of killing him, the latter welcomed him with open arms and said "God himself has come down to take my life! How more lucky can I be?!!". Unfortunately for him, Arjuna was able to pacify Krishna to break his resolve, and the the normal course of the battle was resumed. Jai Ma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 Om Sri Ganapathyai Namaha Furious? Ganesha Dev, you're the first one I offer to in the morning!! I sure don't want to get on the wrong side of you Ganapathi, no way!!! ) I adore you! I liked what you shared and was just contributing my sincere opinion/story. Really, I was (as I am now) up past my bedtime trying to stay connected to the group, therefore maybe come across curt .. but there's not a furious bone in my body.. I'm mostly silly, you have to read me with more humor. Anyhow I'm wishing to learn more of puranas from the knowledgeable on the list, I have only read the Gita, Bible, Lalita Sahashranama. So please keep up the posting & discussion going Ganesha dev! Jai Ma! Hari Bol! Ammachi, Ganesha Udupa <udupag> wrote: > Dear Devi > > why do you so furious on me. Shanti Shanti Shanti!!!. > In fact all are children of Amma, whether they are > from > ISKCOn or some other organisation. > > All philosophies finally culminates in God, let us > think that all leads to HIM. What is the real(true) > philosophy only we know when we get realisation, till > then as Sri Adi shankara said we repeat "Bhaja > govindam Bhaja Govindam Bhaja Govindam...." > any one has read Padma purana, if so share us what's > there in it!. > Jai ma & Jai Gopal > Ganesh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 This responds to 3 posts, same thread: Since I go regularly to ISKCON Krishna mandir since 1992 (it's the only one in town and i dream/scheme of and M.A. mandir/center here in Miami), when I say it has a lot of fundamentalist attitude, I mean that it is fundamentalist for my taste and what I find to be the prevailing attitude isn't even "my way or the highway" it's just "my way". I understand everyone has their own dharma. I respect ISKCON even when I disagree, and I argue argue argue with some devotees there, but the regulars are mostly used to the Shakta Amma devotee who hangs around. One of the "Brahmanas" at the iskcon mandir (I quote because I believe this is a unique ISCKON intepretation of the term for an advanced desciple, not a caste reference)is married to a Siddha Yoga devotee. She told me her husband & her visited Amritapuri when she traveled to south India. She told me herself that different Devas are for different dispositions. Another devotee in the gift shop calls me when she gets nice Durga or Kali items. I have iskcon friends, very good ones, who keep me around. And everyone there understands my devotion to Lord Krishna, so therefore consider me "a Vaisnava at least". A few isckon devotees continuously try to prosletyze to me hopefully, some disregard me flatly, some snub, and some are outright rude to me. But I handle it all to be close to Krishna. Most tell me that Amma is not a "bonafide spiritual master" and like to debate me about my attraction to "demigods" & their servants. I'm tending to go with some thought here that there is a dichotomy or heirarchy between neophyte and advanced devotees phlisophically in iskcon. Every honest guru has the only aim of helping devotees to cross the over ocean of Maya to Supreme Bliss to the best of ability. I'm sure that was Prabhupada's aim, which is advaita... no? I wonder how it would be if Prabhupada stayed a little longer with his flock, past the awkward teenage stage of the organization he fathered. And these thoughts lead me to Amma's org.. where it will go as it grows... Jai Ma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 Devi, happy that you have cooled down!. thanks just kidding! Anyhow I am not lord Ganesha & no need to adore me,instead you adore to our belowed Amma whom lord Visnu and Shiva are currently adoring (as Mr. Bala put it in another mail) In the Gita, Arjuna inquired: Which is considered to be more perfect, those who are properly engaged in Your devotional service, or those who worship the impersonal Brahman, the unmanifested? Chapter 12, Verse 2. The Blessed Lord said: He whose mind is fixed on My personal form, always engaged in worshiping Me with great and transcendental faith, is considered by Me to be most perfect. Here lord Krishna says about worshipping personal form rather than impersonal form. That means He ask us to worship him alone, in most of the slokas he is telling again & again, that means in my openion He is above all deva and devatas(33 crores of them) and what to talk about manushyas. So there is a super form above all forms and therefore super form is different from all other forms. Eventhough superform is qulitativly same as that of other forms, but quantitatively a mighty & immeasurable one. Sri Madvacharya came down to tell this to all that God is different from Jivatma. Thanks to Sri Madvacharya! Jai Ma & Jai Sri Krishna Hari Om Ganesha --- Amarthya <Dianadevi wrote: > Om Sri Ganapathyai Namaha > > Furious? Ganesha Dev, you're the first one I offer > to in the > morning!! I sure don't want to get on the wrong side > of you > Ganapathi, no way!!! ) I adore you! > > I liked what you shared and was just contributing my > sincere > opinion/story. Really, I was (as I am now) up past > my bedtime trying > to stay connected to the group, therefore maybe come > across curt .. > but there's not a furious bone in my body.. I'm > mostly silly, you > have to read me with more humor. Anyhow I'm wishing > to learn more of > puranas from the knowledgeable on the list, I have > only read the > Gita, Bible, Lalita Sahashranama. So please keep up > the posting & > discussion going Ganesha dev! > > Jai Ma! Hari Bol! > > Ammachi, Ganesha Udupa > <udupag> wrote: > > Dear Devi > > > > why do you so furious on me. Shanti Shanti > Shanti!!!. > > In fact all are children of Amma, whether they are > > from > > ISKCOn or some other organisation. > > > > All philosophies finally culminates in God, let us > > think that all leads to HIM. What is the > real(true) > > philosophy only we know when we get realisation, > till > > then as Sri Adi shankara said we repeat "Bhaja > > govindam Bhaja Govindam Bhaja Govindam...." > > any one has read Padma purana, if so share us > what's > > there in it!. > > Jai ma & Jai Gopal > > Ganesh > > > The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 > So there is a super form above all forms and > therefore > super form is different from all other forms. > Eventhough superform is qulitativly same as that of > other forms, but quantitatively a mighty & > immeasurable one. > Sri Madvacharya came down to tell this to all that > God > is different from Jivatma. > Thanks to Sri Madvacharya! However Amma says there is no difference, correct? She says when we give up attachment we will see no difference between ourselves and others, animals, plants, etc. That we will see God in all things with no difference. However, in our current lifecycle, it may be that some of us see God as separate, others as not separate, some as Devi, others as Allah, and still others as formless. I see no reason to question our own individual heartfelt faith in whichever God we see in this lifetime because we will have countless rebirths - this lifetime may be such that we should focus on the current form or lack of form. In other words, I won't debate with my Christian friend that he and God are the same because in this life, he sees God as separate and that's his path right now. And he doesn't try to convince me that his Bible is my path, because he knows it's not. When Krishna spoke those words, I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that he was speaking as GOD, not as Krishna the body that was before Arjuna. Like when Jesus said in the Bible something to the effect that all who seek Him will come to Him - I took that as meaning GOD, not Jesus the man who said it. Also, is that statement, "fixed on my personal form", translated differently in other gitas, or is it generally accepted that way? Gabriela --- Ganesha Udupa <udupag wrote: > Devi, happy that you have cooled down!. thanks > just kidding! > Anyhow I am not lord Ganesha & no need to adore > me,instead you adore to our belowed Amma whom lord > Visnu and Shiva are currently adoring (as Mr. Bala > put > it in another mail) > > In the Gita, > Arjuna inquired: Which is considered to be more > perfect, those who are properly engaged in Your > devotional service, or those who worship the > impersonal Brahman, the unmanifested? > > Chapter 12, Verse 2. > The Blessed Lord said: He whose mind is fixed on My > personal form, always engaged in worshiping Me with > great and transcendental faith, is considered by Me > to > be most perfect. > > Here lord Krishna says about worshipping personal > form > rather than impersonal form. That means He ask us to > > worship him alone, in most of the slokas he is > telling > again & again, that means in my openion He is above > all deva and devatas(33 crores of them) and what to > talk about manushyas. > So there is a super form above all forms and > therefore > super form is different from all other forms. > Eventhough superform is qulitativly same as that of > other forms, but quantitatively a mighty & > immeasurable one. > Sri Madvacharya came down to tell this to all that > God > is different from Jivatma. > Thanks to Sri Madvacharya! > > Jai Ma & Jai Sri Krishna > Hari Om > Ganesha > > > > --- Amarthya <Dianadevi wrote: > > Om Sri Ganapathyai Namaha > > > > Furious? Ganesha Dev, you're the first one I offer > > to in the > > morning!! I sure don't want to get on the wrong > side > > of you > > Ganapathi, no way!!! ) I adore you! > > > > I liked what you shared and was just contributing > my > > sincere > > opinion/story. Really, I was (as I am now) up past > > my bedtime trying > > to stay connected to the group, therefore maybe > come > > across curt .. > > but there's not a furious bone in my body.. I'm > > mostly silly, you > > have to read me with more humor. Anyhow I'm > wishing > > to learn more of > > puranas from the knowledgeable on the list, I have > > only read the > > Gita, Bible, Lalita Sahashranama. So please keep > up > > the posting & > > discussion going Ganesha dev! > > > > Jai Ma! Hari Bol! > > > > Ammachi, Ganesha Udupa > > <udupag> wrote: > > > Dear Devi > > > > > > why do you so furious on me. Shanti Shanti > > Shanti!!!. > > > In fact all are children of Amma, whether they > are > > > from > > > ISKCOn or some other organisation. > > > > > > All philosophies finally culminates in God, let > us > > > think that all leads to HIM. What is the > > real(true) > > > philosophy only we know when we get realisation, > > till > > > then as Sri Adi shankara said we repeat "Bhaja > > > govindam Bhaja Govindam Bhaja Govindam...." > > > any one has read Padma purana, if so share us > > what's > > > there in it!. > > > Jai ma & Jai Gopal > > > Ganesh > > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product > search > > The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 > > Also, is that statement, "fixed on my personal > form", > translated differently in other gitas, or is it > generally accepted that way? > > Gabriela > > Again It depends which translation u r reading, if its ISKCON then it means Blue coloured, cowherd Krishna with flute in the hand. If it is advaita, then it is innermost Self (atman), the essence of every being. In Advaita where ever Krishna explains his nature to Arjuna, in reality he is describing attributes of the Self which is formless. 'Gita' which literally means 'song' was stated as 'song of the soul' by Vivekanada. Tatvam Asi Avinash The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 Jai Guru Deva Om ;o) Ammachi, Miranda Soliz <msoliz2000> wrote: > "Nothings gonna change my world." John Lennon (wish > that were as easy as it sounds!) > > Also a hypocrite, > But with love, > Gabriela Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 I¹m reading these posts from the bottom up and maybe this has been addressed. I¹m also aware that we want to avoid trashing other teachers/groups. But wouldn¹t most of us agree that you can, to some extent, judge the quality of a teacher/teaching by the behavior of his/her/its followers and the predominant atmosphere they generate? I think Amma scores highly in this regard. ISKON, OTOH, is notorious for criminal behavior by its higher-ups. on 10/14/03 9:34 PM, Amarthya at Dianadevi wrote: > Most tell me that Amma is not a "bonafide spiritual master" and like > to debate me about my attraction to "demigods" & their servants. I'm > tending to go with some thought here that there is a dichotomy or > heirarchy between neophyte and advanced devotees phlisophically in > iskcon. Every honest guru has the only aim of helping devotees to > cross the over ocean of Maya to Supreme Bliss to the best of ability. > I'm sure that was Prabhupada's aim, which is advaita... no? I wonder > how it would be if Prabhupada stayed a little longer with his flock, > past the awkward teenage stage of the organization he fathered. And > these thoughts lead me to Amma's org.. where it will go as it grows... > > Jai Ma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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