What does Amma say about Sai Baba?

[Guest guest]

A friend of mine who was sexually molested many times by Sai Baba said:

 

³I have no interest in Amma at all since she supports the idea of Sai Baba

being divine and that shows me that she is not up to the standards of a true

saint for me, she might hug whosoever fine with me, but surely not me.²

 

Without opening a big can of worms, can someone tell me, in a nutshell, what

Amma has actually said about Sai Baba? Remember, we don¹t want to get into a

big discussion about this here. I just want an actual quote or two.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Rick,

 

I hope that you and Irene are well and in good health and spirits.

 

I have wanted to write on the list my experiences with Amma in

Chicago last summer, but have not had the time to do so. Going to

Cochin for Av 50, and now preparing to go to London to attend Amma's

program has left me little spare time.

 

But now you ask about Sai Baba and Amma, so I take it as a prompt

to write.

 

Because of my health problems making it through Amma's programs is

always a difficult task for me. I had a good plan for the night of

Devi Bhava in Naperville. I stood in the hall for the program

near the exit way. So, then when bhajans started I could go out of

the hall and go to the hotel resturant before it closed, and eat

what I thought my body could best handle that would get me through

this, my last night with Amma for the summer.

The hotel resturant closes at 10:30 or 11 PM. I had been sick during

the morning program, probably because I had not been careful enough

with my diet.

 

So, in Naperville, Devi Bhava evening, bhajans and darshan began and

I turned to leave the hall and make my way to the resturant.

Standing in my way at the entrance to the hall was a young woman who

was curiously looking into the hall. I asked her if I could help her.

This nice woman (about 30 yrs. old) had never seen Amma before

and wanted to know something about Amma, and what was going on. So,

I gave her some info, and suggested she go for darshan, or buy some

books to read about Amma.

 

Then she hit me with her big question. The young woman said to me

that Amma says that She is the sister of Sai Baba.

Well, that started a very long discussion.

 

I asked her how she knew that Amma had said that, as I had never

heard that before. She told me that she was sure that she had read

it somewhere. I told her that I have read every book in English

published by Amma's organization, and I did not recall ever having

read that. So, course I again asked her where she had read this, and

then she told me on the internet, on a web page. I told her that to

the best of my knowledge no such page existed from an offical Amma

site.

Then she changed and said that it was on one of the group sites

on the web that discuss Amma. I told her that I am a member of the

Amma group list, and I had never read anything like that on

any post.

She was extremely persistent that she was sure that Amma had said

this. Finally, I saw Swamiji Ramakrishananda come to a seva desk not

far away from where we were talking. I asked the woman to wait while

I spoke to Swamiji about this point.

 

I went to Swamiji and said to him that this lady is saying that

Amma says that She is the sister of Sai Baba.

Swamiji's answer was very stong and emphatic:

He looked sternly at me and said very forcefully, "Fabrication".

 

I went back and told the woman this answer which was from one the

most senior members of Amma's orgainzation present at the program.

Getting that answer satisfied the woman. I went with her to get a

darshan ticket but I do not know if she went for darshan. I never

really understood why she was so stuck on getting this one point

either confirmed or refuted.

 

In my opinion, it is very good to examine the actions of a guru

very carefully, and I would suggest that your friend do that with

Amma.

That is what I did. I have never seen a Guru getting up out of

their seat and going and embracing those who are mentally and

physically handicapped; or those who are sick and cannot kneel or

sit; or taking those who are shaking and distrubed; or those who

smell bad and are dirty, and hugging them. I have seen this with my

own eyes. I have never seen anyone who is famous, or in a respected

position deal so lovingly and patiently with mentally disturbed

people, as Amma does.

He can examine Amma with a very critical eye, and come to his

own conclusions. Show him the video where Amma is sucking the pus

out of the leper Dattan's sores. That's a good one.

 

After concluding my conversation with the woman, I then went to the

resturant and it was closed, as it was after 11 PM. I was in quite a

quandry as to what I could eat or drink that would be nutritious

enough for me, that my body could tolerate ( I have big problems

with my digestion and food intolerances).

I walked over to one of the seva tables, trying to sort out what

I could do, and someone had just brought an open coconut that

Amma had just drank out of, to the table.

I bought that coconut and drank the rest of the water,( Amma's

prasad for me), and it was absolutely delicious.

Then a wonderful devotee from Dallas, Ramakrishnan, offered to cut

the coconut open for me and give me the coconut meat to eat. The

coconut meat was very delicious and filling. It was great!!

 

So, Amma fed me the nutritious food that my body needed and was

easily digested.

I brought the coconut shell home with me. I felt that Amma

was happy with me that I took the time with this woman, and Amma

Herself took care of me, and I had a fine night at the program.

Thank You Amma.

 

---

 

A couple of years ago a young man , during one of Amma's programs,

asked for my advice and help, as he was troubled by what had

happened between him personally and Sai Baba.

I listened to him, as compassionately as I could.

We talked about Amma, and his problems with having faith in a guru.

This young man himself brought up the point that Amma lives most of

Her life in public view, for everyone to see. She is not hiding Her

activities in anyway.

 

I advised the man not to focus on what had happened and to let Amma

heal his wounds. The past is a cancelled check, as Amma says. He

wanted to do that, but also he wanted to go into letting others know

about his experiences. I personally think that that serves no

purpose except to fill one's mind, and other minds, with negativity.

I very strongly urged him not to do this.

 

It is my belief that we become what we think, and that it is very

important to have our mind filled as much as possible with Love and

Light, and not to focus on trashing others, especially other gurus

and teachers. It is a waste of our precious energy and time.

 

Divine Prakrti has Her operating principles and laws, and if the

principles of Dharma are being violated ,Prakrti Herself will set

things straight in Her own time, and in Her own way. We do not have

to worry about that.

 

I hope that what I have written is helpful and that it can help lead

your friend to being more positive about Amma.

 

I have written this to share my experiences with and around Amma.

 

In Amma's Love,

Sara

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote:

> A friend of mine who was sexually molested many times by Sai Baba

said:

>

> ³I have no interest in Amma at all since she supports the idea

of

Sai Baba

> being divine and that shows me that she is not up to the standards

of a true

> saint for me, she might hug whosoever fine with me, but surely not

me.²

>

> Without opening a big can of worms, can someone tell me, in a

nutshell, what

> Amma has actually said about Sai Baba? Remember, we don¹t want

to

get into a

> big discussion about this here. I just want an actual quote or two.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>From an interview I read a few years ago, Amma said when questioned

about a few other contemporary gurus that she did not want to "hurt

anyones feelings", but that She did not consider them "realized"

souls. And that's about as much as I've ever heard. I'm really sorry

I can't quote the source, but it was published on Beliefnet or

something akin to that. But so much for second hand news, memories

of articles past and only my word for you to trust - what we can say

is the names of the masters who Mother does endorse.. Paramahansa

Yogananda, RamaKrishna and Sarada Devi etc. it's published in Amma's

books.. where did your friend get their information?

 

Someone told me that chiropractors were quacks and I'm really glad I

didn't believe them. Anyhow, I humbly suggest caution with your

friend if the claims of abuse are true (who knows?) he or she has a

spiritual wound and only Devi knows how to heal it.

 

Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote:

> A friend of mine who was sexually molested many times by Sai Baba

said:

>

> ³I have no interest in Amma at all since she supports the idea of

Sai Baba

> being divine and that shows me that she is not up to the standards

of a true

> saint for me, she might hug whosoever fine with me, but surely not

me.²

>

> Without opening a big can of worms, can someone tell me, in a

nutshell, what

> Amma has actually said about Sai Baba? Remember, we don¹t want to

get into a

> big discussion about this here. I just want an actual quote or two.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

on 11/4/03 9:24 AM, Amarthya at Dianadevi wrote:

 

> where did your friend get their information?

>

He was close to Sai Baba for many years, was the leader of his organization

in Sweden, and experienced many disturbing things first-hand.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namah Shivaya dear Sister Sara.

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to write this message.

What lovely satsangs we have on this list.

 

Hope it's ok if we all go to London with you in spirit.

Thanks for carrying us in your heart, as you so clearly do!

 

In Amma's grace,

p.

[Guest guest]

I was referring to knowledge of Amma's opinion on Sai Baba.

 

Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote:

> on 11/4/03 9:24 AM, Amarthya at Dianadevi@a... wrote:

>

> > where did your friend get their information?

> >

> He was close to Sai Baba for many years, was the leader of his

organization

> in Sweden, and experienced many disturbing things first-hand.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Rick,

 

"What goes around, comes around is a law of nature." Maybe one of

your enlightened friends could look into the karma of these people

who are accusing Sai Baba of wrong doing. There are unforgivable

sins that have to be returned in kind. Why should a master absorb

the sin of murder or rape? The master's role is to clear the karma

of the disciple. Is an executioner of the state a sinner?

 

Steve D

 

 

 

Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote:

> A friend of mine who was sexually molested many times by Sai Baba

said:

>

> ³I have no interest in Amma at all since she supports the idea of

Sai Baba

> being divine and that shows me that she is not up to the standards

of a true

> saint for me, she might hug whosoever fine with me, but surely not

me.²

>

> Without opening a big can of worms, can someone tell me, in a

nutshell, what

> Amma has actually said about Sai Baba? Remember, we don¹t want to

get into a

> big discussion about this here. I just want an actual quote or two.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Karma is unfathomable, even to the enlightened, but I don¹t buy the logic

that gurus are above the law ­ that they can murder and rape people in order

to help them work off their karma. There may be some stories in the

scriptures where such things are done, but this is the 21st century and I

think gurus should be obligated to abide by modern, man-made laws like

everyone else, or face the legal consequences like everyone else. Just my

opinion but I¹ll bet we¹d find almost unanimous agreement here, and from

Amma.

 

on 11/5/03 12:27 AM, prema_shiva_108 at atyourfeetma wrote:

 

> Rick,

>

> "What goes around, comes around is a law of nature." Maybe one of

> your enlightened friends could look into the karma of these people

> who are accusing Sai Baba of wrong doing. There are unforgivable

> sins that have to be returned in kind. Why should a master absorb

> the sin of murder or rape? The master's role is to clear the karma

> of the disciple. Is an executioner of the state a sinner?

>

> Steve D

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Rick, there are no dearth of people out there to sleaze great Gurus.

On closer inspection, one will invariable find that people who

slander invariably have some personal agenda, some vendetta, mental

disturbance or plain malice. A vast majority of such cases are

covertly funded by some fundamentalist Christian group.

 

If all that your friend says is true then he should really go public

with it, I mean go to the cops and all, Sai Baba has his fair share

of enemies even in India, so it would not be that difficult to do so;

it would lend more credence to his allegations than if he were to

just post them on internet boards/spread them by word of mouth.

 

And dont forget a cardinal rule that is maintained by all genuine

sannyasins( and probably by some rogues too)- is never to defend

onself, a monk has surrendered himself to God totally and is not

permitted to defend himself against an attacking tiger, let alone

anonymous web postings :-)

 

-yogaman

 

ps. My ancestral home is 1 mile from Amma's ashram in India, some

people say much worse things about Amma there, so there you go.

 

 

Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote:

> Karma is unfathomable, even to the enlightened, but I don¹t buy the

logic

[Guest guest]

He has gone public with it. His name is Conny Larsson. Many web sites with

his story at

http://www.google.com/search?q=conny+larsson+sai+baba&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

 

on 11/5/03 7:58 PM, childofdevi at childofdevi wrote:

 

> If all that your friend says is true then he should really go public

> with it,

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Rick,

 

Natural law preempts human law. How can man-made law resolve past

life karma? I will have to admit though, Rick, that the Lords of

Karma usually round up some scoundrel to take care of old business.

But this is not always the case. Should we feel sorry for the nazis

that were sent back into this world and became deformed as a result

of taking thalidomide as babies in the 1950's? And should we feel

anger towards the doctors that prescribed their medication? Maybe

your friend was not so nice of a guy in a past life. We all have our

baggage!

 

Steve D

 

Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote:

> Karma is unfathomable, even to the enlightened, but I don¹t buy the

logic

> that gurus are above the law ­ that they can murder and rape people

in order

> to help them work off their karma. There may be some stories in the

> scriptures where such things are done, but this is the 21st century

and I

> think gurus should be obligated to abide by modern, man-made laws

like

> everyone else, or face the legal consequences like everyone else.

Just my

> opinion but I¹ll bet we¹d find almost unanimous agreement here, and

from

> Amma.

>

> on 11/5/03 12:27 AM, prema_shiva_108 at atyourfeetma@h... wrote:

>

> > Rick,

> >

> > "What goes around, comes around is a law of nature." Maybe one of

> > your enlightened friends could look into the karma of these people

> > who are accusing Sai Baba of wrong doing. There are unforgivable

> > sins that have to be returned in kind. Why should a master absorb

> > the sin of murder or rape? The master's role is to clear the

karma

> > of the disciple. Is an executioner of the state a sinner?

> >

> > Steve D

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Nobody on the list knows and nobody on the list can say.. so let's

not go on with conjecture about extremely sensitive issues like the

personal karma of others we know nothing about. It's really not

cool... especially when we're wise enough to know it's provocative

and leads to nothing constructive for the list - Premarupa's right..

take it up off-list if you have to.

 

~ Amarthya (who is as guilty as anyone)

 

Jai Ma

 

Ammachi, "prema_shiva_108"

<atyourfeetma@h...> wrote:

> Rick,

>

> Natural law preempts human law. How can man-made law resolve past

> life karma? I will have to admit though, Rick, that the Lords of

> Karma usually round up some scoundrel to take care of old

business.

> But this is not always the case. Should we feel sorry for the

nazis

> that were sent back into this world and became deformed as a

result

> of taking thalidomide as babies in the 1950's? And should we feel

> anger towards the doctors that prescribed their medication? Maybe

> your friend was not so nice of a guy in a past life. We all have

our

> baggage!

>

> Steve D

>

> Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote:

> > Karma is unfathomable, even to the enlightened, but I don¹t buy

the

> logic

> > that gurus are above the law ­ that they can murder and rape

people

> in order

> > to help them work off their karma. There may be some stories in

the

> > scriptures where such things are done, but this is the 21st

century

> and I

> > think gurus should be obligated to abide by modern, man-made

laws

> like

> > everyone else, or face the legal consequences like everyone

else.

> Just my

> > opinion but I¹ll bet we¹d find almost unanimous agreement here,

and

> from

> > Amma.

> >

> > on 11/5/03 12:27 AM, prema_shiva_108 at atyourfeetma@h... wrote:

> >

> > > Rick,

> > >

> > > "What goes around, comes around is a law of nature." Maybe

one of

> > > your enlightened friends could look into the karma of these

people

> > > who are accusing Sai Baba of wrong doing. There are

unforgivable

> > > sins that have to be returned in kind. Why should a master

absorb

> > > the sin of murder or rape? The master's role is to clear the

> karma

> > > of the disciple. Is an executioner of the state a sinner?

> > >

> > > Steve D

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I wholeheartedly agree. Especially, who can say what karmic debt anyone

is paying? To imply that thalidomide babies were Nazis, or that a person

who is going through hard times did some gross misdeed is presumptive at

best. Does not Mother tell us to show compassion for those who are

unfortunate? Perhaps such brave souls are on the spiritual fast track -

who knows?

 

 

Amarthya wrote:

 

> Nobody on the list knows and nobody on the list can say.. so let's

> not go on with conjecture about extremely sensitive issues like the

> personal karma of others we know nothing about. It's really not

> cool... especially when we're wise enough to know it's provocative

> and leads to nothing constructive for the list - Premarupa's right..

> take it up off-list if you have to.

>

> ~ Amarthya (who is as guilty as anyone)

>

> Jai Ma

>

> Ammachi, "prema_shiva_108"

> <atyourfeetma@h...> wrote:

> > Rick,

> >

> > Natural law preempts human law. How can man-made law resolve past

> > life karma? I will have to admit though, Rick, that the Lords of

> > Karma usually round up some scoundrel to take care of old

> business.

> > But this is not always the case. Should we feel sorry for the

> nazis

> > that were sent back into this world and became deformed as a

> result

> > of taking thalidomide as babies in the 1950's? And should we feel

> > anger towards the doctors that prescribed their medication? Maybe

> > your friend was not so nice of a guy in a past life. We all have

> our

> > baggage!

> >

> > Steve D

> >

> > Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote:

> > > Karma is unfathomable, even to the enlightened, but I don¹t buy

> the

> > logic

> > > that gurus are above the law ­ that they can murder and rape

> people

> > in order

> > > to help them work off their karma. There may be some stories in

> the

> > > scriptures where such things are done, but this is the 21st

> century

> > and I

> > > think gurus should be obligated to abide by modern, man-made

> laws

> > like

> > > everyone else, or face the legal consequences like everyone

> else.

> > Just my

> > > opinion but I¹ll bet we¹d find almost unanimous agreement here,

> and

> > from

> > > Amma.

> > >

> > > on 11/5/03 12:27 AM, prema_shiva_108 at atyourfeetma@h... wrote:

> > >

> > > > Rick,

> > > >

> > > > "What goes around, comes around is a law of nature." Maybe

> one of

> > > > your enlightened friends could look into the karma of these

> people

> > > > who are accusing Sai Baba of wrong doing. There are

> unforgivable

> > > > sins that have to be returned in kind. Why should a master

> absorb

> > > > the sin of murder or rape? The master's role is to clear the

> > karma

> > > > of the disciple. Is an executioner of the state a sinner?

> > > >

> > > > Steve D

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

>

>

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>

> Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!

>

> Ammachi

>

>

>