What does Amma say about Sai Baba?/gossip

[Guest guest]

"By their fruits shall you know them". Much of SSB bashing comes from

fear-mongering Christians and doubting Thomas' with too much time on

their hands (focussing on SSB claims of divinity etc). I'm sure

Amma has said many things to various SSB devotees over the years that

gets passed on as well as the unfortunately common "psychics" for

lack of a better word, claiming their own "messages". Most SSB

interviews these days are in groups to accomodate more people which

makes claims of abuse incredible.

 

Ask yourself why you even want a guru...

Just for mushy out-of-this-world experiences, or the goal?

Most teachers all teach the same thing and the old-fashioned

guru-shishya relationship at ashrams are not really available these

days. Getting a guru and not doing the required sadhana is a waste

of time. Like getting an expert coach and not doing the exercises or

practices necessary to make progress. But I guess people have the

time and energy to burn.

 

As far as Amma not wanting to hurt feelings, how many times

do you see people ask questions to her that get ignored, etc.?

 

tom

ps, I think the part about "not fully realized" was about Muktananda.

Sounds like two different friends to me: One was molested many times;

the other a devotee close to SSB for "many" years, "head" of his

organization and experienced disturbing things first hand----- a load

of b........ If you wanted a quote that's all you had to ask for.

 

 

 

 

Ammachi, "Amarthya" <Dianadevi@a...> wrote:

> From an interview I read a few years ago, Amma said when questioned

> about a few other contemporary gurus that she did not want to "hurt

> anyones feelings", but that She did not consider them "realized"

> souls. And that's about as much as I've ever heard. I'm really

sorry

> I can't quote the source, but it was published on Beliefnet or

> something akin to that. But so much for second hand news, memories

> of articles past and only my word for you to trust - what we can

say

> is the names of the masters who Mother does endorse.. Paramahansa

> Yogananda, RamaKrishna and Sarada Devi etc. it's published in

Amma's

> books.. where did your friend get their information?

>

> Someone told me that chiropractors were quacks and I'm really glad

I

> didn't believe them. Anyhow, I humbly suggest caution with your

> friend if the claims of abuse are true (who knows?) he or she has a

> spiritual wound and only Devi knows how to heal it.

[Guest guest]

There were no names in the article I mentioned only discussion of

mistrust of contemporary gurus due to impropriety or claims thereof.

Anyway, the big point is of unsubstantiated information being

perpetuated (as in like my article story ) I could just be making

it all up - but I'm not I swear!!

 

I have met 2 people in my life who were/are devotees of

Rajneesh/Osho. Even through the well documented criminal activity

and power abuses that went on in and around that guru and

organization, these devotees maintained that it was all the Master's

Leela designed to peel away layers of reality like an onion and

bring them to the divine. According to them, Rajneesh's spiritual

authenticity and teachings are intact and meaningful.. who can argue

with them? It's all a very personal and subjective our relationships

to our teacher, our path, our religion..

 

Regards to someone not interested in Amma becuase of this or that..

first I think that not everyone is meant to be an Amma devotee - we

all have different spiritual inclination, and that's ok, are we here

to proselytize? And second, taking an example from Savitri Bess'

book "The Path of the Mother," the river doesn't care if you like it

or not.. the river isn't concerned if you would like to visit it or

pay it mind or no.. the river just flows all the same.. and Amma is

the river of Love for the souls who feel Her and also for the ones

who do not.

 

Ammachi, "Tom" <tomgull@e...> wrote:

 

> ps, I think the part about "not fully realized" was about

Muktananda.

> Sounds like two different friends to me: One was molested many

times;

> the other a devotee close to SSB for "many" years, "head" of his

> organization and experienced disturbing things first hand----- a

load

> of b........ If you wanted a quote that's all you had to ask

for.

>

> Ammachi, "Amarthya" <Dianadevi@a...> wrote:

> > From an interview I read a few years ago, Amma said when

questioned

> > about a few other contemporary gurus that she did not want

to "hurt

> > anyones feelings", but that She did not consider them "realized"

> > souls. And that's about as much as I've ever heard. I'm really

> sorry

> > I can't quote the source, but it was published on Beliefnet or

> > something akin to that. But so much for second hand news,

memories

> > of articles past and only my word for you to trust - what we can

> say

> > is the names of the masters who Mother does endorse..

Paramahansa

> > Yogananda, RamaKrishna and Sarada Devi etc. it's published in

> Amma's

> > books.. where did your friend get their information?

> >

[Guest guest]

Ammachi, "Tom" <tomgull@e...> wrote:

> "By their fruits shall you know them". Much of SSB bashing comes

from

> fear-mongering Christians and doubting Thomas' with too much time on

> their hands (focussing on SSB claims of divinity etc).

 

You can't really blame people for asking or wondering. One shouldn't

except a guru blindly. So much has been reported re: SSB through the

years, and not just by people with agendas. I'm not judging because I

don't know what the truth is...but at the same time, having read Tal

Brooke's book and hearing reports from Connie Larson, etc...who seem

believable and honest to me, I'm not sure they would have any reason

to make these stories up. They both appear very hurt to me. I don't

think you can blame people for inquiring. This is a very important

issue because SSB reportedly has millions of followers from all

around the world...the largest following perhaps of any guru, and if

people just followed blindly in fear of appearing sinful because they

dared to ask a question that was unacceptable or sinful gossip, then

I find that sad and unacceptable. I don't want to dwell on the

subject too much because I fear our moderator will become unhappy

with me/us for talking about other gurus on an Amma list, but I

wanted to stress that I think it's unfair to make people with

legitimate questions feel guilty of gossip. I've seen this thing

happen before in other walks of life, and I fear it is a dangerous

way of handling things. Just my thoughts, Lisa

[Guest guest]

First of all, I don't agree at all that those making any accusations

against any guru have a "personal agenda". There are times when

bringing bad situations to light is good. Way-to-go Catholic

priests!

 

Your knowledge is of only one side. I urge you to get to know SSB

devotees and what SSB teaches, etc. Anyone who's truly looked into

his teachings, and been among 'devotees' (not just followers which are

common as Amma's "followers") you would find it hard to believe the

accusations against SSB.

 

see my next posting on Guru's Grace and the Goal

tom

 

 

Ammachi, "lbrachlin" <lalita120@h...> wrote:

>

> You can't really blame people for asking or wondering. One

shouldn't

> except a guru blindly. So much has been reported re: SSB through

the

> years, and not just by people with agendas. I'm not judging because

I

> don't know what the truth is...but at the same time, having read

Tal

> Brooke's book and hearing reports from Connie Larson, etc...who

seem

> believable and honest to me, I'm not sure they would have any

reason

> to make these stories up. They both appear very hurt to me. I don't

> think you can blame people for inquiring. This is a very important

> issue because SSB reportedly has millions of followers from all

> around the world...the largest following perhaps of any guru, and

if

> people just followed blindly in fear of appearing sinful because

they

> dared to ask a question that was unacceptable or sinful gossip,

then

> I find that sad and unacceptable. I don't want to dwell on the

> subject too much because I fear our moderator will become unhappy

> with me/us for talking about other gurus on an Amma list, but I

> wanted to stress that I think it's unfair to make people with

> legitimate questions feel guilty of gossip. I've seen this thing

> happen before in other walks of life, and I fear it is a dangerous

> way of handling things. Just my thoughts, Lisa

[Guest guest]

Om Namah Shivaya,

 

Thanks Tom, for your message. It's true, I don't know the truth

re:SSB. I never said I did. It's possible that everything negative

that has ever been reported about him is complete slander. It really

is! I just don't know. I only commented on this point because of the

thread and some people were asking about him and what Amma says about

him with concern. Of course, I am concerned when someone who has so

much influence throughout the globe may or may not be what we want

them to be. So if one is interested in following him, I guess they

need to do their own investigation. So I am just asking people to be

careful if need be. That is up to you, of course. I have read some

negative reports on SSB since the late '70's. One was in the form of

a rather frightful, very small booklet written by a devotee who was

so frightened that he might become the victim of black magic curse,

but felt it was more important to get the truth out so was willing to

take that chance. To tell you the truth, I never really have given

SSB much thought one way or the other, because he just never was for

me. When I met Amma, I knew she was for me.

 

I'm not so interested in getting to know his teachings...not that I

have anything against such an endeavor, but I'm so happy with Amma

and some of the other great masters that I study (such as

Vivekananda, as we have been discussing), that it just isn't the

endeavor for me. As for those who do study his teachings...that is

fine. I know people who are with SSB, and they are just wonderful.

Anyway, if you want to discuss it further with me, why don't you send

me a private email, as this topic I know could become a sensative one

for some on this list. I want to apologize to anyone on this list who

may not want to hear this discussion.

 

Warmest regards, Lisa

 

Ammachi, "Tom" <tomgull@e...> wrote:

> First of all, I don't agree at all that those making any accusations

> against any guru have a "personal agenda". There are times when

> bringing bad situations to light is good. Way-to-go Catholic

> priests!

>

> Your knowledge is of only one side. I urge you to get to know SSB

> devotees and what SSB teaches, etc. Anyone who's truly looked

into

> his teachings, and been among 'devotees' (not just followers which

are

> common as Amma's "followers") you would find it hard to believe the

> accusations against SSB.

>

> see my next posting on Guru's Grace and the Goal

> tom

>

>

> Ammachi, "lbrachlin" <lalita120@h...> wrote:

> >

> > You can't really blame people for asking or wondering. One

> shouldn't

> > except a guru blindly. So much has been reported re: SSB through

> the

> > years, and not just by people with agendas. I'm not judging

because

> I

> > don't know what the truth is...but at the same time, having read

> Tal

> > Brooke's book and hearing reports from Connie Larson, etc...who

> seem

> > believable and honest to me, I'm not sure they would have any

> reason

> > to make these stories up. They both appear very hurt to me. I

don't

> > think you can blame people for inquiring. This is a very

important

> > issue because SSB reportedly has millions of followers from all

> > around the world...the largest following perhaps of any guru, and

> if

> > people just followed blindly in fear of appearing sinful because

> they

> > dared to ask a question that was unacceptable or sinful gossip,

> then

> > I find that sad and unacceptable. I don't want to dwell on the

> > subject too much because I fear our moderator will become unhappy

> > with me/us for talking about other gurus on an Amma list, but I

> > wanted to stress that I think it's unfair to make people with

> > legitimate questions feel guilty of gossip. I've seen this thing

> > happen before in other walks of life, and I fear it is a

dangerous

> > way of handling things. Just my thoughts, Lisa

[Guest guest]

The very nature of field brings some very psychotic individuals, who

may even turn vehemently against the guru, when maybe some deeply

hidden vasanas come to the surface. I am not suggesting that this

Conley guy is making all this up or that he is a sick individual. But

this kind of stuff happens a lot. A little anecdote on SSB, a

relative of mine had a car accident and he was admitted to the

hospital. When they scanned him, they found out that he had a brain

tumour(he had also been having recurrent headaches for some time)

that was in a very advanced stage and he apparently had a few more

months to live(they advised him against treatment at that stage). In

desperation, he came to SSB's ashram and there is a separate line

where SSB blesses terminally ill people and cures most of them. My

relative recieved his blessing and when he went back and did the scan

again, NO tumour and his headaches too stopped after being blessed by

SSB.

 

I know of several other miracles that SSB does, Also in my own family

sometimes SSB comes in a dream to forewarn of impending troubles and

it has always been true.

 

All I can say is that those accusers have some chronic problems. This

is the last post on this topic from me(otherwise the moderator will

kick me out). And quite honestly I think that Amma has a high opinion

of SSB( one of Amma's quotes "SSB is the Sun and I am the moon", the

esoteric symbology as per yoga and tantra is that the Sun is SIVA and

the moon is SHAKTI)

 

-yogaman

 

 

Ammachi, "lbrachlin" <lalita120@h...> wrote:

> Om Namah Shivaya,

>

> Thanks Tom, for your message. It's true, I don't know the truth

> re:SSB. I never said I did. It's possible that everything negative

[Guest guest]

--- childofdevi <childofdevi wrote:

>

 

And quite honestly I think that Amma

> has a high opinion

> of SSB( one of Amma's quotes "SSB is the Sun and I

> am the moon"

 

Dear Yogaman,

 

I, too, want this topic to be finished. I in no

way consider myself a spokesperson for Amma or her

organization, but I have had conversations with

one who has had many discussions with Amma about

SSB, and I do not have the impression that this

is a true quote.

 

You are certainly welcome to your opinion:).

 

In Her,

Jyotsna

 

 

>

> -yogaman

>

>

> Ammachi, "lbrachlin"

> <lalita120@h...> wrote:

> > Om Namah Shivaya,

> >

> > Thanks Tom, for your message. It's true, I don't

> know the truth

> > re:SSB. I never said I did. It's possible that

> everything negative

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

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