Guest guest Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 Hello Dixie/Snehalata: You make perfect sense. The syndrome of dry and mechanical repetition of Mantra Japa is repeatedly mentioned in "Awakened Children". Amma has also made it a point on recent tours to acknowledge that we are "sick puppies" (this is my phrase not Amma's). Please forgive the paraphrase. During the June tour Amma said that we are suffering from multiple layers of spiritual scars. Doing Japa with the "appropriate" passion abd devotion would require me to melt my psycho-spiritual iceberg somewhat. In my opinion, we can take heart because Amma knows this about us better than we know it ourselves. Namah Shivaya, George For Mata Dixie Thacker <dixielou wrote: - lbrachlin Ammachi Thursday, November 06, 2003 1:09 PM Re: Grace and effort Ammachi, "Dixie Thacker" <dixielou@s...> wrote: Namah Shivaya, Lisa I am not sure I can agree that japa, etc are always "true undertakings." I am still struggling with this, tho, so bear with me. I've recently realized that I frequently "do" my mantra, japa, whatever, with the subconscious goal of "advancing" myself spiritually. This is by no means the same as doing these as tributes to the guru/God/Mother or whomever is supposedly being honored by my practice. Nor does it seem to me to be the same thing as invoking these Beings thru chanting or crying out to them because of the pain of separation from them. Does this make any sense? Namaste, Snehalata PS I am so glad we're discussing some of these issues. Thanks, all. Om Namah Shivaya > > Anyway, my Daoist friend continues to pound it into my head (metaphorically speaking!) that "efforting" is, indeed an act of ego and an effort to control outcomes-that, in fact, we only achieve awareness when we stop struggling and the monkey mind simply gives up its effort to convince us that more japas, more prayers, more chants, etc will bring us closer to our goals. Only when the brain gives up the crown can the atman follow the guiding light of the guru back to its holy and rightful throne (metaphorically speaking). Effort may very well be a form of ego, and yet the paradox is, we still must strive with all our being until we reach the goal. You will find this with all the great beings. Even Ramakrishna Paramahamsa put forth tremendous effort...calling his Divine Mother Kali with his every breath. He practised all the sadhanas. So we must never stop trying. But I think there is a certain balance we can achieve. One must give up doership...then the struggle and effort eases and grace follows. We must stop feeling that we are doing it all. This is ego. And by the way, "more japas, more prayers, more chants, etc." are all sincere "efforts", as well. This, too, is truly an effort...a true undertaking. The struggle is in the "I am doing it all" approach...letting go of this is letting grace flow. Lisa Sponsor Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 --- lbrachlin <lalita120 wrote: > Ammachi, Miranda Soliz > <msoliz2000> wrote: > > And yet some are enlightened by the touch of their > > guru, suddenly awakened to the Truth of who they > > are.... like Swami Vivekenanda (is that right?)... > > > So, we have to have faith that our guru knows what > we > > need when we need it. > > If you read Sw. Vivekananda's biography (by Sw. > Nikhilananda) and the > scores of collected writings and talks by Sw. V., > himself (and I > recommend doing this highly), you will see how much > he had to > struggle. But he was surrendered to his guru and to > the Divine. This > surrender, of course, is the key...it relieves any > burden of > doership. But Vivekananda was not an ordinary man. > He was a divine > messenger who was awakened from his divine splendor > in the highest > planes of consciousness and was called (I'm not sure > if I'm > remembering this correctly...I'll have to go back > and reread some of > my old texts), I believe by Ramakrishna, to join him > and take an > earthly incarnation in order to serve as this divine > messenger to > mankind. No wonder it only took a touch from his > guru...his destiny > was already sealed, his mission already > assigned...he really didn't > come down to this earthly plane to do sadhana. That > is the > difference. And yet, he suffered immensely...perhaps > more than > anyone. His heart was so enormous...he felt the pain > and burden of > humanity on his shoulders. But because great beings > don't identify > with this pain as we do...they witness it...they > live in a continued > state of grace. > > Lisa > > I considerd and consider Sw.Vivekanada as my hero (besides Ramana Maharshi). Intrestingly I met a Japanese student from UCLA Berkley in NYC during Ammachi's 2001 summer tour. While doing the seva, I asked him if he had taken mantra from Ammachi, he replied he has no intention of taking mantra from Ammachi, since he was already initiated by Swami Buteshananda. I knew that Swami Buteshananda was the late president of Ramakrishna Mission who had maha samadhi in 1998, as for I knew he didn't travelled much in his later years, and I had one question in my mind, how does a Japanese student come into contact with this Swamiji? I explained my curiosty. Then the Japanesse explained that Sw.Vivekanada is his hero, infact he was so influenced by Vivekanada teachings that,he visited Belur Math, Dakshinehwar,Kalighat, Jayarambati (Birth place of Sri Sarada Devi), Baranagore Monastry etc, and when he was expaining tears where rolling in his eyes. I was deeply touched. It was said that his teachings will defenetly move and change people belonging to different cultures, different races from different time periods,and I have expereinced that. Regards Avinash Ramidi Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard http://antispam./whatsnewfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2003 Report Share Posted November 8, 2003 Namah Shivaya. A little more from the book From Amma¹s Heart, hopefully relevant to this thread. Q. How does the Guru help the disciple transcend the ego? Amma: By creating the necessary situations. In fact, it is the Satguru¹s compassion that helps the disciple. Q. So, what exactly helps the disciple? The situations or the Guru¹s compassion? Amma: The situations emerge as a result of the Satguru¹s infinite compassion. [Another way to look at our ³emergencies²--p.] Q. Are these situations normal situations or are they special? Amma: They will be normal situations. However, they are also special because they are another form of the Satguru¹s blessing, for the spiritual uplift [sic] of the disciple. Q. Is there a conflict between the Guru and disciple during the process of removing the ego? Amma: The mind will struggle and protest, because it wants to remain asleep and to continue dreaming. It doesn¹t want to be disturbed. However, a True Master is the disturber of the disciple¹s sleep. The Satguru¹s one and only aim is to awaken the disciple. So, there is a seeming contraction. However, a true disciple endowed with shraddha [loving faith] will use discrimination to overcome such inner conflicts. Q. Amma, how does discrimination grow? Amma: Through contemplative action. Q. Is a discriminative mind a matured mind? Amma: Yes, a spiritually matured mind. Q. Will such a mind have greater capacities? Amma: Greater capacities and understanding. Q. Understanding of what? Amma: Understanding of everything, every situation and experience. Q. You mean, even the negative and painful situations? Amma: Yes, all. Even painful experiences when understood deeply have a positive effect on our life. Just beneath the surface of all experiences, whether good or bad, is the spiritual message. So viewing everything from outside is materialism and viewing everything from inside is spirituality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2003 Report Share Posted November 8, 2003 - Kenna Ammachi Saturday, November 08, 2003 9:14 PM grace and effort Namaste, Kenna, where did you find From Amma's Heart? I've checked the web page and even tried Amazon, but cannot find it listed. I would love to buy a copy, just can't lcoate one. At Mother's feet, Snehalata Namah Shivaya. A little more from the book From Amma¹s Heart, hopefully relevant to this thread. Q. How does the Guru help the disciple transcend the ego? Amma: By creating the necessary situations. In fact, it is the Satguru¹s compassion that helps the disciple. Q. So, what exactly helps the disciple? The situations or the Guru¹s compassion? Amma: The situations emerge as a result of the Satguru¹s infinite compassion. [Another way to look at our ³emergencies²--p.] Q. Are these situations normal situations or are they special? Amma: They will be normal situations. However, they are also special because they are another form of the Satguru¹s blessing, for the spiritual uplift [sic] of the disciple. Q. Is there a conflict between the Guru and disciple during the process of removing the ego? Amma: The mind will struggle and protest, because it wants to remain asleep and to continue dreaming. It doesn¹t want to be disturbed. However, a True Master is the disturber of the disciple¹s sleep. The Satguru¹s one and only aim is to awaken the disciple. So, there is a seeming contraction. However, a true disciple endowed with shraddha [loving faith] will use discrimination to overcome such inner conflicts. Q. Amma, how does discrimination grow? Amma: Through contemplative action. Q. Is a discriminative mind a matured mind? Amma: Yes, a spiritually matured mind. Q. Will such a mind have greater capacities? Amma: Greater capacities and understanding. Q. Understanding of what? Amma: Understanding of everything, every situation and experience. Q. You mean, even the negative and painful situations? Amma: Yes, all. Even painful experiences when understood deeply have a positive effect on our life. Just beneath the surface of all experiences, whether good or bad, is the spiritual message. So viewing everything from outside is materialism and viewing everything from inside is spirituality. Sponsor Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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