True Advaita vs Intellectual enlightenment what Amma says

November 26, 2003

Om Namah Shivaya!

I think this is a good and important discussion.

Having been to many weekends and talks given by some teachers who

claim to be enlightened from a non dual perspective, I have to admit

that I came away from these gatherings with mixed feelings. On the

one hand, I certainly appreciate the philosophy of Advaita and find

it helpful. On the other hand, I could not believe in the

enlightenment of theses teachers. After having had Amma's darshan all

these years and knowing the feeling of bliss of her presence and her

satsang, I was acutely aware of the lack of this sacred presence at

some of these teachers gatherings.

Further, and most importantly, I noticed that none of these teachers

emphasize purity, or the process of purification in order to

progress. In fact, from an intellectual understanding of non-

duality, there "is no progress." They go out of their way to say that

you can do whatever you want: basically morality is not necessary.

This is so, so dangerous. This is a real pitfall in these merely

intellectual approaches. Guru, Bhakti and purification are considered

to be childish props. This is a deluded approach, in my opinion, and

does not lead to true peace.

Many of these intellectual level non-dualist gather on the web and

actively disparage and sarcastically criticize gurus and scriptures.

Amma says: " Once you realize the Ultimate Truth, the world of

duality ceases to exist for you- there is only the truth and nothing

to cast aside as wrong. You see everything as a manifestation of God.

Every word and deed of such a soul benefits society. Even coming in

contact with such a person's breath will help eradicate the negative

tendencies within us. A person who is aware of his or her divinity

will never be disturbed when confronted with the problems of the

world. A real Vedatin is someone who actually lives in that state of

non-duality, not someone who merely talks about it. A real Vedatin is

a living example to the world.

Those who drink alcohol and do other wrong actions while quoting

the scriptures, declaring that all is Brahman, cannot be considered

to be spiritual. We should be able to recognize such hypocrites. Our

inabilty to do so is one reason why our culture has fallen to such an

extent. Spirituality isn't something to be just talked about; it has

to be lived."

November 26, 2003

-

ckeniley2003

Ammachi

Wednesday, November 26, 2003 3:31 PM

True Advaita vs "Intellectual enlightenment" what Amma says

Namaste,

I agree that this is a truly important issue and I'm delighted to be able to

discuss it here; there aren't many places, or many people, where it is even a

remote possibility.

I think you're absolutely right in your concern about the "intellectual" path

- and that has been a concern of mine as well. I've even mentioned to the group

before that I sometimes feel concerned because I feel that I understand

many of these issues on a purely intellectual basis but do not know whether I

"feel" the Truth in my very cells. And if doingwhatever one wishes to do is

being promoted under that guise, then it is indeed fearfully dangerous.

Since I am relatively new to this group and to having anyone to discuss things

with, I don't really know what's the right answer even for me, let alone anyone

else. As I've mentioned, msot of my conversations along these lines have been

with my best friend-a woman I've known for about 25 years who was raised as a

Christian minister's daughter and is now a Toaist. When we first met, she was

still a fairly confirmed Christian, but was beginning to question whether she

had actually been taught the truth about a lot of things. She began reading

everything she could get her hands on - and I mean everything - from an

assortment of faiths and evolved -so to speak- over the years into a Toaist.

Many of the things mentioned in an earlier thread do fit her, but on both sides

of the issue! She does not believe in reincarnation because, as a non-dualist,

she does not believe that "death" per se exists- new physical forms are donned,

but the essence never dies. She has never claimed to know the past lives of

others, obviously - nor would she see any value in doing so since she doesn't

believe in karma, either: her basic belief is that It is and that's it. She

swears that there is one Consciousness- the Absolute - and that nothing else

exists at all (it's odd to be best friends with someone who denies your

existance! (-: ).

So, she's my only real experience with the non-dualist, "intellectual" path

and while I've never asked her if she feels she is self-realized, I suspect she

might feel that she is. It's a moot point for me because we're too close for me

to ever see her in that light - I knew her "before," if that makes sense. But

truly, I can assure you that something remarkable has occured within her at a

very, very deep level and has lasted for nearly ten years now -there is a

calmness and peacefulness about her that has not been disrupted by things that

would previously have decked her cold. Laughter at the sheer delight she feels

now bubbles out of her like bubbles out of champagne, and she insists that there

is not one thing we can do to alter the path we are on for good or for bad; when

the time is right, grace will be given and we'll know the Truth. And whatever

occured within her has been accompanied by the appearance of deeply humble,

Christ-like compassion and acceptance

of life as it is. I can't remember if you or someone else mentioned that

enlightened beings give service twenty-four seven, and I can attest that this

has occured whether my friend willed it or not; she is a member of a group

similar to ours (except that they get together in various countries

frequently) and her phone rings nearly non-stop with people asking her

questions.

Again, I would stress that what I see in my friend is nothing even remotely

similar to what Amma is nor do I ever expect to meet a human as sacred as Amma

is. But I also know that something very real happened in my friend's life and

part of me still believes that if I were able to even comprehend All that Mother

is and truly, truly trust that She knows my every thought and need, I would

quite likely, become awakened. There are day when I wonder why I pray to Mother

asking that this one or that one be helped - or that the world could become more

peace-filled:

sometimes it seems like supreme arrogance on my part that I should dare to ask

for specific graces like that when my monkey mind probably doesn't even know

what it, anyone, or anything else needs. My typical prayer is that Her will be

done - and then I worry that my husband's health will fail as the drs. say it

will. I don't think I can have it both ways, which leads me right back to the

question: would true and complete surrender to all aspects of the Divine Mother

be what we are missing?And by that I don't mean giving up and doing nothing, I

mean accepting whatever comes -winning the lottery or the death of lifemate-with

acceptance that both are equally perfect because That has willed it to be so?

Sometimes I think, when I discuss surrender, that people assume I mean an easy

path; it's actually the reverse - I can't think of anything that would be

harder to do.

I suspect this has gotten too long and garbled, but I do so need the chance to

"talk" these issues out. Thank you.

At Mother's feet,

Snehalata