Guest guest Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Namah Shivaya, In resonse to Amma's birthday message that I forwarded to my adult son, he replied with links to a Christian website about cults. Another family member thinks I'm crazy for worshipping feet, and has threatened (in jest, I hope!) to have me committed! I can understand how an onlooker without a first hand experience near Amma, especially a Christian, could see Her devotees as cult members. We tend to dress in white, have our own terms for things (seva, etc...), want to give Amma control, we deprive ourselves of sleep , and so on. Does anyone have any advice or successful experiences in dealing with the perception that Amma devotees are in a cult? Sweta Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 - ammachi Sunday, October 24, 2004 1:43 PM Quell cult perceptions? Namah Shivaya, I have no advice whatsoever and encounter the same attitude frequently, but as far as the worshiping of feet is concerned, Christians washed Christ's feet as a form of homage also. On a personal level, I've decided to let others think as they will and frequently pray to Amma for peace among all of us and keep reminding myself that I am to be Amma's emissary in the world-spread love and maybe it'll win over the hatreds. One of my closest friends is a fundamentalist Christian and I certainly understand your situation. On a light side, if you get committed, I'd like to go along-at least we could worship without distraction! (-: Always at Mother's Lotus Feet, Snehalata Namah Shivaya, In resonse to Amma's birthday message that I forwarded to my adult son, he replied with links to a Christian website about cults. Another family member thinks I'm crazy for worshipping feet, and has threatened (in jest, I hope!) to have me committed! I can understand how an onlooker without a first hand experience near Amma, especially a Christian, could see Her devotees as cult members. We tend to dress in white, have our own terms for things (seva, etc...), want to give Amma control, we deprive ourselves of sleep , and so on. Does anyone have any advice or successful experiences in dealing with the perception that Amma devotees are in a cult? Sweta Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Sponsor Will you help a needy child? · It only costs .60¢ a day · It's easier than you think. · Click here to meet a waiting child you can sponsor now. Links Ammachi/ b.. Ammachi c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 On a light side, if you get committed, I'd like to go along-at least we could worship without distraction! (-: Lol! vote. - Register online to vote today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Namah Shivaya Sweta, I saw the movie "St. Therese of Lisieux" a couple of days ago, and noticed that all the people that went up to see the pope in that movie kissed the pope's feet. Maybe that's a Christian thing, too. Fe - "" <jpm333_bc <ammachi> Sunday, October 24, 2004 10:43 AM Quell cult perceptions? > > Namah Shivaya, > > In resonse to Amma's birthday message that I forwarded to my adult son, he > replied with links to a Christian website about cults. Another family > member thinks I'm crazy for worshipping feet, and has threatened (in jest, > I hope!) to have me committed! I can understand how an onlooker without a > first hand experience near Amma, especially a Christian, could see Her > devotees as cult members. We tend to dress in white, have our own terms > for things (seva, etc...), want to give Amma control, we deprive ourselves > of sleep , and so on. Does anyone have any advice or successful > experiences in dealing with the perception that Amma devotees are in a > cult? > > Sweta > > > > > Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. > > > > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > Links > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 This reminds me of a story about a woman who became a devout Buddhist in a fundamentalist Christian family. She wrote about all the problems she was having. After a while things settled down. The new Buddhist said "My family hates me when I'm a Buddhist, but they love me when I'm a Buddha." Jai Amma Tom wrote: >Namah Shivaya, > >In resonse to Amma's birthday message that I forwarded to my adult son, he replied with links to a Christian website about cults. Another family member thinks I'm crazy for worshipping feet, and has threatened (in jest, I hope!) to have me committed! I can understand how an onlooker without a first hand experience near Amma, especially a Christian, could see Her devotees as cult members. We tend to dress in white, have our own terms for things (seva, etc...), want to give Amma control, we deprive ourselves of sleep , and so on. Does anyone have any advice or successful experiences in dealing with the perception that Amma devotees are in a cult? > >Sweta > > > > >Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. > > > > > > >Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Namah Shivaya Sweta .... This is a very compelling issue for me, as I used to be involved with another guru who I now realize had many traits of a "destructive cult leader". Since leaving his group over a dozen years ago, I've spent a lot of time pondering and researching cultism, and have pretty much concluded that cultism is "real", in the same sense that road rage is real: it can be mild or severe, it can manifest in a variety of ways, and you can't necessarily come up with a concise description of it ... but once you're familiar with it, you know it when you see it. Here is a page I put together with a few thoughts and some relevant links: http://www.geocities.com/jcbloka/cults.htm Regarding the link your son sent you, lots of Christian sites seem to define cults more in terms of their non-Christian-ness than their having insular, spiritual-growth-stunting qualities. Of course, many Christians aren't going to be very open to that angle, because it means considering ways in which their own scene may be somewhat cultic, in the generic sense. And for that matter, IMHO, much that goes down around Amma is cultic as well, but in a benign way; Amma herself is pure enough that things can never get too out of hand, at least while she is still here in the body. Anyway, I agree with others you probably aren't going to get real far arguing this thing logically. Might be best to simply agree ti disagree, and simply be the best follower of Amma's teachings you can be, without any selfish agenda. However, a little rational mind never hurt, either, and you may find the stuff I've linked to, and similar things, useful in separating whatever may be valid in your son's concerns from what is simply provincialism. Blessings, Jim / Pranav Ammachi, wrote: > Namah Shivaya, > > In resonse to Amma's birthday message that I forwarded to my adult son, he replied with links to a Christian website about cults. Another family member thinks I'm crazy for worshipping feet, and has threatened (in jest, I hope!) to have me committed! I can understand how an onlooker without a first hand experience near Amma, especially a Christian, could see Her devotees as cult members. We tend to dress in white, have our own terms for things (seva, etc...), want to give Amma control, we deprive ourselves of sleep , and so on. Does anyone have any advice or successful experiences in dealing with the perception that Amma devotees are in a cult? > > Sweta > > > > > Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Cults are organizations that proselytize heavily, have serious restrictions on what their members must do and must believe to be good members of the group. They usually limit severely contact with people outside the group and sometimes punish those who stray from the requrements. In addition they are authoritarian and herarchal. Amma's group doesn't fit the description. Amma lets everybody in and lets them go too if they need to do that. There is no dogma. We can keep talking to our relatives who think we've gone mad. Amma suggests things or asks if anybody thinks such and such is a good idea. We may follow her suggestions because we love and trust her but that's different from an authoritarian setting. It's important to identify what aspects of life with Amma are Indian cultural traditions and practices and what trasncends cultural practice. Amma's universal love and acceptance transcends culture. Her encouraging us to spend time each week helping those in need transcends place and culture. For Westerners in particular, the cultural aspects are associated with "going beyond" what we know. Amma goes beyond what we know. Our love for Her and Her love for us goes beyond what we have known in other human relationships. Westerners in particular can mix up this transcendance with the cultural things which are also "beyond" our previous everyday experience. When you talk to other Westerners, what can resonate in them about Amma is the universal love and encouragement to serve others. What will not necessarily attract them, unless they also have had a ritualistic spiritual practice, are the cultural things such as chanting in a language other than their mother tongue, Indian clothes, showing respect and love by touching or worshipping fe4et, etc.. They are just strange, or things they are not used to, when the person has not been touched by Amma's love. They are also nonessential. Each person's devotional practice is strange to the one who has not tried it. In addition US culture is materialistic. This materialistic culture is being spread around the world through corporate dominance and military might. People raised in a materialistic culture are not hopeless, but they have to come to acknowledge their own spiritual nature step by step. Another person referred to Amma's still being alive, the condition of the organization while she is still in the body. I have wondered about that change, about what will happen. The result will depend on how clear we are about what Amma is demonstrating to us. Aikya Ammachi, wrote: > Namah Shivaya, > > In resonse to Amma's birthday message that I forwarded to my adult son, he replied with links to a Christian website about cults. Another family member thinks I'm crazy for worshipping feet, and has threatened (in jest, I hope!) to have me committed! I can understand how an onlooker without a first hand experience near Amma, especially a Christian, could see Her devotees as cult members. We tend to dress in white, have our own terms for things (seva, etc...), want to give Amma control, we deprive ourselves of sleep , and so on. Does anyone have any advice or successful experiences in dealing with the perception that Amma devotees are in a cult? > > Sweta > > > > > Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 There is also a great book especially for christians , judeo christians alike . It can be purchased at Ammachi.org the book is called " The mystic christ " by Ethan Walker III . It is truly a treasure for those with questions regarding other religions , it gives a full understanding of what is Easter thought for those brought up in the West ( however it is great for all who are intrestood to learn the Gnosis of Christ ) Namste , Joanna P --- Aikya Param <aikya wrote: > > Cults are organizations that proselytize heavily, > have serious > restrictions on what their members must do and must > believe to be > good members of the group. They usually limit > severely contact with > people outside the group and sometimes punish those > who stray from > the requrements. In addition they are authoritarian > and herarchal. > Amma's group doesn't fit the description. Amma lets > everybody in > and lets them go too if they need to do that. There > is no dogma. We > can keep talking to our relatives who think we've > gone mad. Amma > suggests things or asks if anybody thinks such and > such is a good > idea. We may follow her suggestions because we love > and trust her > but that's different from an authoritarian setting. > > It's important to identify what aspects of life with > Amma are Indian > cultural traditions and practices and what > trasncends cultural > practice. Amma's universal love and acceptance > transcends culture. > Her encouraging us to spend time each week helping > those in need > transcends place and culture. > > For Westerners in particular, the cultural aspects > are associated > with "going beyond" what we know. Amma goes beyond > what we know. > Our love for Her and Her love for us goes beyond > what we have known > in other human relationships. Westerners in > particular can mix up > this transcendance with the cultural things which > are also "beyond" > our previous everyday experience. > > When you talk to other Westerners, what can resonate > in them about > Amma is the universal love and encouragement to > serve others. What > will not necessarily attract them, unless they also > have had a > ritualistic spiritual practice, are the cultural > things such as > chanting in a language other than their mother > tongue, Indian > clothes, showing respect and love by touching or > worshipping fe4et, > etc.. They are just strange, or things they are not > used to, when > the person has not been touched by Amma's love. > They are also > nonessential. > > Each person's devotional practice is strange to the > one who has not > tried it. In addition US culture is materialistic. > This > materialistic culture is being spread around the > world through > corporate dominance and military might. People > raised in a > materialistic culture are not hopeless, but they > have to come to > acknowledge their own spiritual nature step by step. > > > Another person referred to Amma's still being alive, > the condition > of the organization while she is still in the body. > I have wondered > about that change, about what will happen. The > result will depend > on how clear we are about what Amma is demonstrating > to us. > > Aikya > > Ammachi, > <jpm333_bc> wrote: > > Namah Shivaya, > > > > In resonse to Amma's birthday message that I > forwarded to my adult > son, he replied with links to a Christian website > about cults. > Another family member thinks I'm crazy for > worshipping feet, and has > threatened (in jest, I hope!) to have me committed! > I can > understand how an onlooker without a first hand > experience near > Amma, especially a Christian, could see Her devotees > as cult > members. We tend to dress in white, have our own > terms for things > (seva, etc...), want to give Amma control, we > deprive ourselves of > sleep , and so on. Does anyone have any advice or > successful > experiences in dealing with the perception that Amma > devotees are in > a cult? > > > > Sweta > > > > > > > > > > Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download > now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 Greetings, I have not yet posted to this group, though I feel intuitively to post on this. This may have already been advised. If someone were to have perceptions of Amma's following as being cult-like, I would simply point out to that person that Amma was awarded the Gandhi-King Award for Non-Violence, was invited by Secretary General Kofi Annan to speak at the United Nations Millenium Peace Summit, and is recognized by popular Media as the "Hugging Saint" (I would even perhaps find the articles on the internet, such as in the New York Times, to show them). In this way it might clear up any cult perceptions, and "officiate" Amma to someone for instance in the West who is probably more familiar with Kofi Annan, etc. etc. You could say the following of any Saint or persona is a cult, if someone truly reveres say the Virgin Mary, is that a cult? I would not say so, or a destructive cult any way, as these people are all voluntarily revering this figure. And on top of that, Amma and her following is probably one of the most open, tolerant, and transparent groups around. Cult has a bad context in our society today, but at the same time we use words like "personality cult" to describe popular personalities that people are drawn to. Do not get confused between "destructive cult" and simply "cult". For instance, actors, bands, and other stars or politicians are often said to have at times a "cult following". But no one is obviously saying it is a "cult" as in these people are under direct influence. These people are just drawn to that person, or band, or whatever it may be. We are all, voluntarily, drawn to Amma and choose to follow her. For our own benefit, I would point out that I obtained these warning signs of a destructive cult on the net... Ask yourself if the following criteria apply to the group you are concerned about. 1. A destructive cult tends to be totalitarian in its control of its members' behavior. Cults are likely to dictate in great detail not only what members believe, but also what members wear and eat, when and where members work, sleep, and bathe, and how members think, speak, and conduct familial, marital, or sexual relationships. Analysis: Amma does not dictate anything to us unless we voluntarily ask for her advice, or take up such practices that might affect ourselves. For instance, I do not think most would say Monks or Nuns of major religions are part of a cult as they voluntarily chose to take up the lifestyle they are living. However, if you really want to say what a cult is, you might say they could have a family pushing them to do so or society. But I don't think any of Amma's followers hardly have such pushing, and definitely not from Amma. 2. A destructive cult tends to have an ethical double standard. Members are urged to be obedient to the cult, to carefully follow cult rules. They are also encouraged to be revealing and open in the group, confessing all to the leaders. On the other hand, outside the group they are encouraged to act unethically, manipulating outsiders or nonmembers, and either deceiving them or simply revealing very little about themselves or the group. In contrast to destructive cults, honorable groups teach members to abide by one set of ethics and act ethically and truthfully to all people in all situations. Analysis: Obviously Amma's following falls under the latter, honorable group category. Amma, in all cases, practices what she preaches and her leading disciples do as well. 3. A destructive cult has only two basic purposes: recruiting new members and fund-raising. Altruistic movements, established religions, and other honorable groups also recruit and raise funds. However, these actions are incidental to an honorable group's main purpose of improving the lives of its members and of humankind in general. Destructive cults may claim to make social contributions, but in actuality such claims are superficial and only serve as gestures or fronts for recruiting and fund-raising. A cult's real goal is to increase the prestige and often the wealth of the leader. Analysis: Far from gaining money for herself, Amma and her following sponsors major charities that benefit thousands of people. If one were to go by this evidence alone, it is obviously not a cult. "Cults" 4. A destructive cult appears to be innovative and exclusive. The leader claims to be breaking with tradition, offering something novel, and instituting the ONLY viable system for change that will solve life's problems or the world's ills. But these claims are empty and only used to recruit members who are then surreptitiously subjected to mind control to inhibit their ability to examine the actual validity of the claims of the leader and the cult. Anyalysis: Obviously, no mind control is used. And most would answer that Love is the only viable thing to solve life's problems, and Unconditional Love is taught by most major popular religions. So by this standard, it is not a destructive cult. 5. A destructive cult is authoritarian in its power structure. The leader is regarded as the supreme authority. He or she may delegate certain power to a few subordinates for the purpose of seeing that members adhere to the leader's wishes. There is no appeal outside his or her system to a greater system of justice. For example, if a schoolteacher feels unjustly treated by a principal, an appeal can be made to the superintendent. In a destructive cult, the leader claims to have the only and final ruling on all matters. Analysis: Well, the Pope has the final say in the Catholic Church on many matters and is answerable to no one but God. Amma, on the large scale, is answerable to the people and the people love her as shown by peoples attraction to her. 6. A destructive cult's leader is a self-appointed messianic person claiming to have a special mission in life. For example, leaders of flying saucer cults claim that beings from outer space have commissioned them to lead people away from Earth, so that only the leaders can save them from impending doom. Analysis: Many feel they have a special mission in life, and as does Amma. But she does not claim to be the "only way", and encourages her followers to seek Truth. One must also look though of course to the Guru tradition as a common feature of Hinduism. 7. A destructive cult's leader centers the veneration of members upon himself or herself. Priests, rabbis, ministers, democratic leaders, and other leaders of genuinely altruistic movements focus the veneration of adherents on God or a set of ethical principles. Cult leaders, in contrast, keep the focus of love, devotion, and allegiance on themselves. Analysis: Amma's teachings encourage love and veneration of the Divine Mother and God. She does not claim to be God herself, though in the Hindu tradition veneration of the Guru is common so Amma is venerated voluntarily by her following. However, she herself does not enforce this on people, the veneration comes sincerely and voluntarily from the hearts of her followers. 8. A destructive cult's leader tends to be determined, domineering, and charismatic. Such a leader effectively persuades followers to abandon or alter their families, friends, and careers to follow the cult. The leader then takes control over followers' possessions, money, time, and live Analysis: Amma does not try to take control of any one. People voluntarily donate. So in essence, everything is voluntarily, no one is persuaded or forced to do anything. Many major religions would qualify as a cult when people's families push them into religion, or put their children in religious schools, etc. Though no one says anything as that is common. Followers of Amma are by the majority never pressured in, and definitely not pressured in by Amma or her leading disciples. Now some people may raise their children as a follower of Amma or otherwise, but this is not really pressure and really very common. And all one has to do is look at Amma's central message: Love Love is open, and tolerant Amma and her followers are the exact opposite of a destructive cult, or any controlling group in any form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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