Guest guest Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Now comes two articles published by Outlook India, saying the Shankaracharya has pleaded guilty to the charges! _____ _____ Saibal Das KANCHI CASE 10 Minutes In A Life The Shankaracharya's confessions run the whole gamut, from murder to math funds <http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_coverage.asp?gid=13> S. ANAND "To powerful ministers and industrialists I was a ladder, now the ladder's broken; I held the Brahmins of this country together like a sack, that sack's torn; to the Dalits I was a vessel that offered them water, that vessel's broken." -Jayendra Saraswati in his testimony to the police With tears rolling down his cheeks, Jayendra Saraswati, the Shankaracharya of the Kanchi math, has admitted to his role in the murder of A. Sankararaman, manager of the Varadarajaperumal temple in Kanchipuram. Over three days (November 19-21) at the All-Women's police station in Kanchipuram, Jayendra Saraswati unburdened himself to three superintendents of police. The seer has said that a lot of black money had come into the math's 120-odd trusts. A senior officer Outlook spoke to gave details of the confessions which have also been videographed. There is a catch though-statements made in custody are not admissible as evidence in a court of law. But the entire exercise has filled in the gaps for the investigating team trying to put together the sequence of events. One member of the interrogation team said the Shankaracharya, in a "repentful mood", admitted that Sankararaman had become a thorn in his flesh with his letters (over three years) threatening to expose the wrongdoings at the math. The letters left him "sleepless, tortured and deeply upset". The "empire" the Shankaracharya had painfully built up over two decades was being destabilised. "His sensational allegations angered me. It would anger anybody," Jayendra Saraswati told the police. When Sankararaman's last letter (August 30) arrived, Ravi Subramaniam, a Chennai-based contractor and staunch devotee of the math, was present with Jayendra Saraswati. "How long do I have to suffer this torture? Is there no end to this? I should henceforth receive no letter from him," the Shankaracharya apparently told Ravi, who had helped in the construction of some math buildings. The latter reportedly said he'd ensure the letter from Sankararaman was the last, but added that this would involve some expenditure. The Shankaracharya ordered math manager N. Sundaresan to make the necessary arrangements. Ravi then contracted Appu alias Krishnaswamy for the murder. In an interview to Nakkheeran (September 25), Jayendra Saraswati had admitted that "some of my bhaktas may have been responsible for Sankararaman's end". It appears the unnamed bhaktas were Ravi and Appu. Both are at large and special teams of the police are even now hot on their trail. Appu, perhaps getting wind of the impending arrest, had obtained clearance from the Madras HC on November 4 to visit the US for three months on medical grounds. The permission has now been stayed. It was Appu who allegedly hired the six killers. Also a devotee of Jayendra Saraswati, he's been involved with the math for over two years. The police have confiscated photographs and video-recordings showing the Shankaracharya with Appu. One such photograph-taken a few weeks before the murder at a marriage the Shankaracharya graced-features a shirtless Appu offering paadapuja to Jayendra Saraswati. Police say Appu was earlier an associate of senior DMK leader Arcot N. Veerasamy, minister in the 1996-01 Karunanidhi government. "It was while working for Veerasamy that Appu became powerful in the city," says a police officer. Ravi Subramaniam, estranged from his wife, came to the math seeking the Shankaracharya's counsel on "family problems". Over the years, he became a confidant of Jayendra Saraswati. A senior math hand confirms that Ravi was a regular visitor "who could get an audience with the swami any time he wished". Just like Ravi would confide in Jayendra Saraswati, the latter too began to confide in his bhakta. In 2002, when the seer felt unduly bothered by S. _____ SANKARACHARYA-LD GOVT Shankaracharya "confessed to his involvement": Prosecution CHENNAI, NOV 29 (PTI) It is official now. As reported by Outlook in its <http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20041206&fname=Shankaracharya+ %28F%29&sid=1> December 6 issue that hit the stands on Saturday, the prosecution in the Sankararaman murder case today informed the Madras High Court that Kanchi Seer Jayendra Saraswathi, the main accused in the case, had "confessed to his involvement" in the murder. Opposing the second bail application filed by the Seer in the Madras High Court, Senior Supreme Court lawyer K T S Tulsi told the court that the Sankaracharya had "broken down" during interrogation and "confessed to his involvement" in the murder of temple official Sankararaman on September 3 last. The Seer was arrested in connection with the murder at Mahbubnagar in Andhra Pradesh on November 11. On November 20, the High Court had rejected the Acharya's plea for bail. Tulsi claimed that the Seer, during interrogation, had said that on September one he (Seer) had called Appu alias Krishnasamy, Ravi Subramaniam and Kathriavan, accused in the case, and told them that Sankararaman had been "tormenting" him and that he should be got rid of at any cost. The part of the Seer's "confession", recorded in Tamil, was read out in the court by Tamil Nadu Public Prosecutor K Doraisamy. Submitting that the Seer had admitted to having talked to some accused in the case before and after the murder took place, Tulsi said the Sankaracharya had also informed his interrogators that the mobile phone from where calls had been made was for his exclusive use. Arguments on the bail plea will continue tomorrow. Referring to Kathiravan's retraction of his early statement under section 164 Cr.PC, Tulsi claimed that he was pressurised into it by 10 advocates, who had met him at the behest of the Seer. This itself was proof that if granted bail the Seer would tamper with evidence, he alleged adding that witnesses would be afraid to talk if he was let out on bail. The Seer had extensive telephonic conversations with a woman, Usha, at Srirangam near Tiruchi, he said, claiming that the prosecution suspected she may have a role to play. "We wanted to interrogate her but she has made herself scarce and is absconding," he said. Two others wanted in the case were also absconding and when they were apprehended it could throw more light on the murder, he contended. Tulsi also reiterated earlier charges that money drawn by the mutt from a bank was found in possession of the accused and that the Seer was all set to flee the country. The lawyer claimed that the Seer was in good health and being medically examined twice a day. Earlier he was being examined thrice daily. Meanwhile, the police in a counter affidavit opposed the application for bail on the ground there was no merit in it. Referring to allegations by the deceased that the personal conduct of the Seer was 'unbecoming of an Acharya' (sanyasi), the affidavit said it would not be out of place to show that the Sankaracharya was "in the habit of talking to a deserted woman by name Usha at Srirangam during early morning hours. Claiming that the conversation used to last even for 900 pulse units, the police contended that the woman had been provided with free quarters to stay in and large amounts of money was periodically transferred to her through bank transactions, which had all been withdrawn. The woman was absconding, the police said, adding that her involvement in the conspiracy and other allied matters were being probed since the Seer regularly spoke to her before and after the murder. The deceased had also questioned the extravagant life led by relatives of the Seer and the alleged presence of women in the Mutt after 10.00 pm, the police said. The police said that merely because police remand of the Seer was not extended it could not be concluded that the investigation was over and that bail could be granted. On Kathiravan's retraction, the police said that even in his retraction statement he had falsely said that since his arrest no one was allowed to meet him except his elder sister Shanthi. The police produced the names of 10 advocates, who had met him on November 22, 23 and 25. The affidavit claimed that even while in judicial custody, the Seer was able to influence the accused and witnesses to support him. Earlier, the Seer's counsel, I Subramanian prayed for grant of bail pointing out that conditions had changed since the last bail application was rejected. Meanwhile, a sessions court posted for tomorrow another plea for bail by the Seer, who is also charged in the attack on a former temple employee Radhakrishnan about two years ago. _____ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Kochany Tatusiu na ile to jest of our interest , przyznal sie Shankaracharya do swojego participation w murder , i podkresla ile jest korupcji w danej institucji , zalozonego po przez tak wielkeigo swietego , niestety wszstkie organizacjie podlegaja korupcji mniejszej lub wiekszej niezaleznei przez jak wielkich sweitych sa one zakladane . asionek napszyklad poznalam pania ktora personalnie znala Sri Prabhubata ten zalozyciel Hare Krishna movement , mowila mi ze On byl poczciwa osoba , i tez wielu jest tam podcziwych ludzi ale sama organizacjia to juz nie , --- Rick Archer <rick wrote: > Now comes two articles published by Outlook India, > saying the Shankaracharya > has pleaded guilty to the charges! > > > > _____ > > _____ > > Saibal Das > > > KANCHI CASE > > > 10 Minutes In A Life > > > The Shankaracharya's confessions run the whole > gamut, from murder to math > funds > <http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_coverage.asp?gid=13> S. ANAND > > > > > > > > > > "To powerful ministers and industrialists I was a > ladder, now the ladder's > broken; I held the Brahmins of this country together > like a sack, that > sack's torn; to the Dalits I was a vessel that > offered them water, that > vessel's broken." > -Jayendra Saraswati in his testimony to the police > > With tears rolling down his cheeks, Jayendra > Saraswati, the Shankaracharya > of the Kanchi math, has admitted to his role in the > murder of A. > Sankararaman, manager of the Varadarajaperumal > temple in Kanchipuram. Over > three days (November 19-21) at the All-Women's > police station in > Kanchipuram, Jayendra Saraswati unburdened himself > to three superintendents > of police. > > > > > > > > > The seer has said that a lot of black money had come > into the math's 120-odd > trusts. > > > > > > > > > > A senior officer Outlook spoke to gave details of > the confessions which have > also been videographed. There is a catch > though-statements made in custody > are not admissible as evidence in a court of law. > But the entire exercise > has filled in the gaps > > > > for the investigating team trying to put together > the sequence of events. > > One member of the interrogation team said the > Shankaracharya, in a > "repentful mood", admitted that Sankararaman had > become a thorn in his flesh > with his letters (over three years) threatening to > expose the wrongdoings at > the math. The letters left him "sleepless, tortured > and deeply upset". The > "empire" the Shankaracharya had painfully built up > over two decades was > being destabilised. "His sensational allegations > angered me. It would anger > anybody," Jayendra Saraswati told the police. > > When Sankararaman's last letter (August 30) arrived, > Ravi Subramaniam, a > Chennai-based contractor and staunch devotee of the > math, was present with > Jayendra Saraswati. "How long do I have to suffer > this torture? Is there no > end to this? I should henceforth receive no letter > from him," the > Shankaracharya apparently told Ravi, who had helped > in the construction of > some math buildings. The latter reportedly said he'd > ensure the letter from > Sankararaman was the last, but added that this would > involve some > expenditure. The Shankaracharya ordered math manager > N. Sundaresan to make > the necessary arrangements. Ravi then contracted > Appu alias Krishnaswamy for > the murder. > > In an interview to Nakkheeran (September 25), > Jayendra Saraswati had > admitted that "some of my bhaktas may have been > responsible for > Sankararaman's end". It appears the unnamed bhaktas > were Ravi and Appu. Both > are at large and special teams of the police are > even now hot on their > trail. Appu, perhaps getting wind of the impending > arrest, had obtained > clearance from the Madras HC on November 4 to visit > the US for three months > on medical grounds. The permission has now been > stayed. > > > > It was Appu who allegedly hired the six killers. > Also a devotee of Jayendra > Saraswati, he's been involved with the math for over > two years. The police > have confiscated photographs and video-recordings > showing the Shankaracharya > with Appu. One such photograph-taken a few weeks > before the murder at a > marriage the Shankaracharya graced-features a > shirtless Appu offering > paadapuja to Jayendra Saraswati. Police say Appu was > earlier an associate of > senior DMK leader Arcot N. Veerasamy, minister in > the 1996-01 Karunanidhi > government. "It was while working for Veerasamy that > Appu became powerful in > the city," says a police officer. > > Ravi Subramaniam, estranged from his wife, came to > the math seeking the > Shankaracharya's counsel on "family problems". Over > the years, he became a > confidant of Jayendra Saraswati. A senior math hand > confirms === message truncated === The all-new My - Get yours free! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Now comes an article saying that Shankaracharya did not make any confession. Rajan http://us.rediff.com/news/2004/nov/30kanchi11.htm 'Shankaracharya did not confess to role in crime' Onkar Singh in New Delhi | November 30, 2004 22:09 IST Last Updated: November 30, 2004 22:34 IST Sushma Swaraj, spokesperson of the Bhartiya Janata Party, who called on Shankaracharya Swami Jayendra Sarswati in Vellore Jail on Monday, said that the Seer was contemplating moving the Tamil Nadu high court to quash the first information report filed in the Saankaraman murder case. Shankaracharya: The Full Coverage "We are contemplating moving the HC under article 482 for quashing of the false cases registered against the seer," Swaraj told news persons in New Delhi on Tuesday. She claimed that she had been authorised by the Kanchi seer to convey his point of view to the people and counter the allegations made in the media by the prosecution. "I spent 30 minutes with the Shankaracharya and he looked calm and composed. During my interaction, I asked him about his so-called confession before the police and he told me that there was no question of admitting anything when he did not commit the crime. I asked him if he had any telephone conversation with Jayalalithaa, the chief minister of Tamil Nadu, wherein he sought her forgiveness for describing her as 'Kamakhya Devi' as claimed by Star News channel. Swamiji laughed it off saying that there was no question of him referring to Jayalalithaa as 'Kamakhya Devi'. He told me that the whole thing was untrue and whatever was being said is nothing but white lies," Swaraj said. She dared Union law minister H R Bhardwaj to summon the so-called videotapes to prove whether they existed at all. "I ask the Union government to intervene in the matter by using article 256/257 as was done by the Vajpayee government when Karunanidhi and Murasoli Maran were arrested. The Centre has the powers to direct the state government to act in accordance with the Constitution of India. The law minister has the power to summon the evidence if it exists," she said. Asked if this would amount to interference in the judicial process, Swaraj said the case proceedings could go on in the courts and the Centre can go through the evidence. "I challenge them to present the videotapes of the so-called confession either before the media or before the court of law," she reiterated. When a reporter pointed out that the prosecution was willing to present the taped evidence, but it was the defence counsel who had objected to it, Swaraj said she had no information about it. Take Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile./maildemo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 --- joanna pollner <joannapollner wrote: (apparently in Polish!) > Kochany Tatusiu > > na ile to jest of our interest , przyznal sie > Shankaracharya do swojego > participation w murder , i podkresla ile jest > korupcji > w danej institucji , > zalozonego po przez tak wielkeigo swietego , > niestety > wszstkie organizacjie podlegaja korupcji mniejszej > lub > wiekszej niezaleznei przez jak wielkich sweitych sa > one zakladane . > > asionek > > napszyklad poznalam pania ktora personalnie znala > Sri > Prabhubata > ten zalozyciel Hare Krishna movement , mowila mi ze > On > byl poczciwa osoba , i tez wielu jest tam podcziwych > ludzi ale sama organizacjia to juz nie , > Moderator's request: Please keep all postings in English. Keval Read only the mail you want - Mail SpamGuard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Regarding the involvement of a woman which came in the article that Rick had sent please do read the following link to see to get more details(the woman in question has been suffering from ailments for the past many years.....) http://us.rediff.com/news/2004/nov/30kanchi.htm http://www.kanchi-sathya.org/ FOLKS I would take whatever the police are claiming at face value because they have been claiming things and not coming up with any proof. First they claimed that Shankaracharya was planning to flee to nepal in a helicopter.It has come out very clearly that such a thing is just IMPOSSIBLE.It would require some 5 refueling before it reaches nepal(if you guys are interested i can send the links for this).The police had claimed that they have SOLID evidence about this fleeing to Nepal and that they will present it in the court in 3 days time.That 3rd day has apparently not yet come(this happened more than 15 days back). Next they claimed that Shankaracharya's close assistant Raghu apparently in custody accepted and confessed the role played by Shankaracharya in the murder.It came to light later on that Raghu had never been arrested infact he came on TV and said that no such thing had happened.There have been many more of such claims by the police which have been proved wrong. Please do not get carried away by such claims by the police. Rajan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 I thought we weren't going to talk about this any more on this list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Dear All, I think outside India also people should know what kind of spiritual leaders are good and bad. Otherwise people will support them without proper study. I think Jayendra Saraswathi did wrong and he must be punished as per the Indian law and if he did wrong he is equal to criminal. I am also a believer of RSS / BJP but I don't support of their support for Jayendra Saraswathi. Truth will always win! Aum Amriteswariyai Namaha! Ajith - Erica Ammachi Wednesday, December 01, 2004 7:42 AM Re: Shankracharaya's confession I thought we weren't going to talk about this any more on this list. Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi/ b.. Ammachi c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Om Namah Shivaya I do not know if the Shankaracharya topic is closed in here or not.I feel forced to reply to Ajith's email because from the begining he has been making outlandish claims,verdicts on the case when it has not yet been settled in the court.Frankly speaking I do not know if he is guilty or not.If he is guilty let him be punished appropriately.But claiming that he is guilty even before the case has been settled and that too sharing it on a public forum like this I feel is very inappropriate.I do not claim to know much about Shankaracharya.All I know for sure is that he has done lots of social service activities.Has started lots of schools,colleges,hospitals,etc.Infact "Shankara Netralaya" is the best eye hospital in India and it is totally free for the poor.Poor people from all over India come over there to get treated there.It is very much like the AIMS hospital run by Amma.He has done lots of social work in his life.The Shankara math that he is staying in doesnt have much facilities.It is a very simple math.So it is not like he has been living like a prince or something.Colleges run by Shankara math are damn good and most people who graduate from there get good jobs,etc.I agree that there might be lots of fake saints in India but Shankara math(in kanchipuram) has been a very highly reputed math.There has not been any great controversy on it till now.This is just mind boggling given that it has existed for some 1500 years(I am not sure of when it was established heard it was established even before 1500 years).It is no small achievement.I feel we should keep all this in mind before we make any judgement.There are so many contradicting stories going on in newspapers it is very easy to make judgements.I am not claiming here that because of all the good things he has done he would not have done such a crime,etc.But what I am saying is let us atleast respect him for what he has done in his life so far.And let us not pass verdicts here that he is guilty even the court of law says a person is innocent till proven guilty in court. Rajan Ajith, Whether Shankaracharya is guilt of the crime or not is still an open question.The case has not yet been settled.I just do not know how you can be so very sure that he is guilty.I feel if you have had such a strong evidence against Shankaracharya then you would have talked to the police,concerned officials in India and given your evidence there.Have you done any such thing.If you have not done any such thing and if you do not have any strong evidence other than just the newspaper reports then please stop making such outlandish claims in here.Even if you have given evidence in court,etc Take Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile./maildemo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Dear Rajan, Why you are not thinking about the person who was killed and his family. His wife and children. No body has given permission to Jayendra Saraswati to take others life. Police has solid proof that Saraswati was involved in the murder. all the schools, college, hospitals etc. started not by his single effort. All his devotees had there contribution on that. Even he did alone, he don't have any right to play with others life. If he did wrong he will be punished. In Ammas lotus feet, Ajith - RAJAN Ammachi Wednesday, December 01, 2004 4:25 PM Re: Re: Shankracharaya's confession Om Namah Shivaya I do not know if the Shankaracharya topic is closed in here or not.I feel forced to reply to Ajith's email because from the begining he has been making outlandish claims,verdicts on the case when it has not yet been settled in the court.Frankly speaking I do not know if he is guilty or not.If he is guilty let him be punished appropriately.But claiming that he is guilty even before the case has been settled and that too sharing it on a public forum like this I feel is very inappropriate.I do not claim to know much about Shankaracharya.All I know for sure is that he has done lots of social service activities.Has started lots of schools,colleges,hospitals,etc.Infact "Shankara Netralaya" is the best eye hospital in India and it is totally free for the poor.Poor people from all over India come over there to get treated there.It is very much like the AIMS hospital run by Amma.He has done lots of social work in his life.The Shankara math that he is staying in doesnt have much facilities.It is a very simple math.So it is not like he has been living like a prince or something.Colleges run by Shankara math are damn good and most people who graduate from there get good jobs,etc.I agree that there might be lots of fake saints in India but Shankara math(in kanchipuram) has been a very highly reputed math.There has not been any great controversy on it till now.This is just mind boggling given that it has existed for some 1500 years(I am not sure of when it was established heard it was established even before 1500 years).It is no small achievement.I feel we should keep all this in mind before we make any judgement.There are so many contradicting stories going on in newspapers it is very easy to make judgements.I am not claiming here that because of all the good things he has done he would not have done such a crime,etc.But what I am saying is let us atleast respect him for what he has done in his life so far.And let us not pass verdicts here that he is guilty even the court of law says a person is innocent till proven guilty in court. Rajan Ajith, Whether Shankaracharya is guilt of the crime or not is still an open question.The case has not yet been settled.I just do not know how you can be so very sure that he is guilty.I feel if you have had such a strong evidence against Shankaracharya then you would have talked to the police,concerned officials in India and given your evidence there.Have you done any such thing.If you have not done any such thing and if you do not have any strong evidence other than just the newspaper reports then please stop making such outlandish claims in here.Even if you have given evidence in court,etc Take Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile./maildemo Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi/ b.. Ammachi c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 on 12/1/04 12:42 AM, Erica at sugarandbrine wrote: > > I thought we weren't going to talk about this any more on this list. > Maybe we shouldn't, but for what it's worth, Amma is very concerned about the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Ajith, You sound very naive about affairs in India. Indian Police often manufacture evidence as often as they claim there is no evidence. They beat confessions out of people. No lawyers present, no rights, they put electric wire up your anus and pass electricity through it. Get real man! The only solution to such cases is a political one. Ajith Nair <ajithnair03 wrote: Dear Rajan, Why you are not thinking about the person who was killed and his family. His wife and children. No body has given permission to Jayendra Saraswati to take others life. Police has solid proof that Saraswati was involved in the murder. all the schools, college, hospitals etc. started not by his single effort. All his devotees had there contribution on that. Even he did alone, he don't have any right to play with others life. If he did wrong he will be punished. In Ammas lotus feet, Ajith - RAJAN Ammachi Wednesday, December 01, 2004 4:25 PM Re: Re: Shankracharaya's confession Om Namah Shivaya I do not know if the Shankaracharya topic is closed in here or not.I feel forced to reply to Ajith's email because from the begining he has been making outlandish claims,verdicts on the case when it has not yet been settled in the court.Frankly speaking I do not know if he is guilty or not.If he is guilty let him be punished appropriately.But claiming that he is guilty even before the case has been settled and that too sharing it on a public forum like this I feel is very inappropriate.I do not claim to know much about Shankaracharya.All I know for sure is that he has done lots of social service activities.Has started lots of schools,colleges,hospitals,etc.Infact "Shankara Netralaya" is the best eye hospital in India and it is totally free for the poor.Poor people from all over India come over there to get treated there.It is very much like the AIMS hospital run by Amma.He has done lots of social work in his life.The Shankara math that he is staying in doesnt have much facilities.It is a very simple math.So it is not like he has been living like a prince or something.Colleges run by Shankara math are damn good and most people who graduate from there get good jobs,etc.I agree that there might be lots of fake saints in India but Shankara math(in kanchipuram) has been a very highly reputed math.There has not been any great controversy on it till now.This is just mind boggling given that it has existed for some 1500 years(I am not sure of when it was established heard it was established even before 1500 years).It is no small achievement.I feel we should keep all this in mind before we make any judgement.There are so many contradicting stories going on in newspapers it is very easy to make judgements.I am not claiming here that because of all the good things he has done he would not have done such a crime,etc.But what I am saying is let us atleast respect him for what he has done in his life so far.And let us not pass verdicts here that he is guilty even the court of law says a person is innocent till proven guilty in court. Rajan Ajith, Whether Shankaracharya is guilt of the crime or not is still an open question.The case has not yet been settled.I just do not know how you can be so very sure that he is guilty.I feel if you have had such a strong evidence against Shankaracharya then you would have talked to the police,concerned officials in India and given your evidence there.Have you done any such thing.If you have not done any such thing and if you do not have any strong evidence other than just the newspaper reports then please stop making such outlandish claims in here.Even if you have given evidence in court,etc Take Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile./maildemo Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi/ b.. Ammachi c.. Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi/ Ammachi The all-new My – What will yours do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 > Maybe we shouldn't, but for what it's worth, Amma is > very concerned about the situation. Is Amma very concerned about the situation , will that have any effect on the Amritandamayi Math ? , there where always fake Gurus and perfect Gurus , I mean credibility lies within Truth . There is plenty of money making or power hungry prophets , guru's etc point is that does not change Amma who She is and what She does . I think best is to leave this matter , and let it play out on its own . Most of us here in the group probably will not be able to change that situation anyway, second Amma while hugging some people has a sad face, once someone asked Amma if She is really sad , Amma sad no She is always happy however Amma is like mirror , One can see oneself in Amma . Her main concern is helping out the poor , awakening Her children to the truth of bliss , peace to the earth and its inhabitants . Namaste , Joanna P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Om Namah Shivaya Anamika and All, I do agree that Indian police manufacture evidence. But it happens not in India alone. It happens in US also. US FBI, Pentagon and President told Iraq has WMD which they never found other than killing lot of Innocent people. Anyway let me come to the point. In Jayendra Saraswathi's case there is solid evidence and day before yesterday he confessed and it's recorded in tape too. And if he was innocent or there was no proof against him, BJP (Political party) would have gone for a big strike. But in this case, they also know that there is solid proof which is against Jayendra Saraswathi. Hindu is not a religion, like Christian or Muslim, its kind of "way of living". Nobody can claim that they are the Author/Guru/King of Hindu. It has its own freedom. Its people are not suppressed by some God or Guru's like in other religion (its not happening in India actualy, In North India if you go and see Dalits are suppresed by Some Brahmins, But its changing). for example in Muslim or Christian if you tell anything against their Imam or Bishop you will face lot of consequence like you are out of Church/Mosque etc. In Hindu people respect good Guru's like Amma, Sri Ramakrishna, Vivekananda etc. It doesn't mean that they can kill any person for any of their personnel interest. Then their value is gone for sure. Jayendra Saraswathi was respected person, but he supported to kill his colleague. Why you people don't think about the person who was killed and about his family. Are they are not human being? If this happens to your family what will you do? Come on don't be so crazy in the name of GOD and Guru's. Come to the reality. Respect good Guru's. God will be always with TRUTH. And that is called GOD. At Ammas Lotus Feet! Ajith - "anami ka" <anamikafisher <Ammachi> Thursday, December 02, 2004 1:10 AM Re: Re: Shankracharaya's confession Ajith, You sound very naive about affairs in India. Indian Police often manufacture evidence as often as they claim there is no evidence. They beat confessions out of people. No lawyers present, no rights, they put electric wire up your anus and pass electricity through it. Get real man! The only solution to such cases is a political one. Ajith Nair <ajithnair03 wrote: Dear Rajan, Why you are not thinking about the person who was killed and his family. His wife and children. No body has given permission to Jayendra Saraswati to take others life. Police has solid proof that Saraswati was involved in the murder. all the schools, college, hospitals etc. started not by his single effort. All his devotees had there contribution on that. Even he did alone, he don't have any right to play with others life. If he did wrong he will be punished. In Ammas lotus feet, Ajith - RAJAN Ammachi Wednesday, December 01, 2004 4:25 PM Re: Re: Shankracharaya's confession Om Namah Shivaya I do not know if the Shankaracharya topic is closed in here or not.I feel forced to reply to Ajith's email because from the begining he has been making outlandish claims,verdicts on the case when it has not yet been settled in the court.Frankly speaking I do not know if he is guilty or not.If he is guilty let him be punished appropriately.But claiming that he is guilty even before the case has been settled and that too sharing it on a public forum like this I feel is very inappropriate.I do not claim to know much about Shankaracharya.All I know for sure is that he has done lots of social service activities.Has started lots of schools,colleges,hospitals,etc.Infact "Shankara Netralaya" is the best eye hospital in India and it is totally free for the poor.Poor people from all over India come over there to get treated there.It is very much like the AIMS hospital run by Amma.He has done lots of social work in his life.The Shankara math that he is staying in doesnt have much facilities.It is a very simple math.So it is not like he has been living like a prince or something.Colleges run by Shankara math are damn good and most people who graduate from there get good jobs,etc.I agree that there might be lots of fake saints in India but Shankara math(in kanchipuram) has been a very highly reputed math.There has not been any great controversy on it till now.This is just mind boggling given that it has existed for some 1500 years(I am not sure of when it was established heard it was established even before 1500 years).It is no small achievement.I feel we should keep all this in mind before we make any judgement.There are so many contradicting stories going on in newspapers it is very easy to make judgements.I am not claiming here that because of all the good things he has done he would not have done such a crime,etc.But what I am saying is let us atleast respect him for what he has done in his life so far.And let us not pass verdicts here that he is guilty even the court of law says a person is innocent till proven guilty in court. Rajan Ajith, Whether Shankaracharya is guilt of the crime or not is still an open question.The case has not yet been settled.I just do not know how you can be so very sure that he is guilty.I feel if you have had such a strong evidence against Shankaracharya then you would have talked to the police,concerned officials in India and given your evidence there.Have you done any such thing.If you have not done any such thing and if you do not have any strong evidence other than just the newspaper reports then please stop making such outlandish claims in here.Even if you have given evidence in court,etc Take Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile./maildemo Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi/ b.. Ammachi c.. Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi/ Ammachi The all-new My - What will yours do? Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Like Amma a perfect Guru will not harm anyone , there will be no bribery , no pedophile , why because a perfect Guru does not do that ! that is true Ajith Namaste , Joanna P Mail - You care about security. So do we. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Hi Ajith, You are missing the point. Just because torture of political prisoners happens in many countries does not make it okay to torture political prisoners in India and especially in the Shankaracharya case. Everything the police or the media has said has been denied by those arrested in this case You seem to have tried and convicted the Shankaracharya even before the Jayalalitha government got a chance to in court. Why do you think Ammachi is so concerned. Is she stupid in your opinon? What is happening to the Shakaracharya can and in all possibility will happen to her as well. Amma has major charities running in India, a huge following world wide ..... a lot of money... enough to make an Indian politician drooooool.... They can always arrest Amma saying she is hugging men... those loonies in the government don't have to have a valid reason... an insane reason will do for them. You talk about solid proof. If there was any, don't you think the Jayalalita government would have revealed it to the people. Instead they are planting stories in the media -- some of which are edited by Non-brahmins who have their own axe to grind against the upper class brahmins. The Shankaracharya is seen as a symbol of the brahmins even though this particular Shankarachary who has been arrested has gone out to help the Dalits and Harijan communities. The woman he is accused of having a conversation with is a cancer patient and the mutt was helping her with her treatment for cancer. They don't have medical insurance in India and any medical treatment is a luxury. By the way, this lady is a non-brahmin that the Shankaracharya was helping. Tomorrow, Ammachi can be arrested for hugging men... that too foreign men.. Ajit, be responsible man in what you are supporting. The guy who was killed was a self-appointed custodian of the mutt. How would you like it if some devotee started dictating to Ammachi what she should do. If he had any real valid reasons, he should have gone to court, or gone to the media to publicize any facts he had, if any. Instead, he was threatening bodily harm to the Shankaracharya.... that too from anotherr Devi temple. He was killed INSIDE that temple. Do you think the Devi was watching helplessly or is there a lesson for all of us here. Ajit, be responsible man... Ajith Nair <ajithnair03 wrote:Om Namah Shivaya Anamika and All, I do agree that Indian police manufacture evidence. But it happens not in India alone. It happens in US also. US FBI, Pentagon and President told Iraq has WMD which they never found other than killing lot of Innocent people. Anyway let me come to the point. In Jayendra Saraswathi's case there is solid evidence and day before yesterday he confessed and it's recorded in tape too. And if he was innocent or there was no proof against him, BJP (Political party) would have gone for a big strike. But in this case, they also know that there is solid proof which is against Jayendra Saraswathi. Hindu is not a religion, like Christian or Muslim, its kind of "way of living". Nobody can claim that they are the Author/Guru/King of Hindu. It has its own freedom. Its people are not suppressed by some God or Guru's like in other religion (its not happening in India actualy, In North India if you go and see Dalits are suppresed by Some Brahmins, But its changing). for example in Muslim or Christian if you tell anything against their Imam or Bishop you will face lot of consequence like you are out of Church/Mosque etc. In Hindu people respect good Guru's like Amma, Sri Ramakrishna, Vivekananda etc. It doesn't mean that they can kill any person for any of their personnel interest. Then their value is gone for sure. Jayendra Saraswathi was respected person, but he supported to kill his colleague. Why you people don't think about the person who was killed and about his family. Are they are not human being? If this happens to your family what will you do? Come on don't be so crazy in the name of GOD and Guru's. Come to the reality. Respect good Guru's. God will be always with TRUTH. And that is called GOD. At Ammas Lotus Feet! Ajith - "anami ka" <anamikafisher <Ammachi> Thursday, December 02, 2004 1:10 AM Re: Re: Shankracharaya's confession Ajith, You sound very naive about affairs in India. Indian Police often manufacture evidence as often as they claim there is no evidence. They beat confessions out of people. No lawyers present, no rights, they put electric wire up your anus and pass electricity through it. Get real man! The only solution to such cases is a political one. Ajith Nair <ajithnair03 wrote: Dear Rajan, Why you are not thinking about the person who was killed and his family. His wife and children. No body has given permission to Jayendra Saraswati to take others life. Police has solid proof that Saraswati was involved in the murder. all the schools, college, hospitals etc. started not by his single effort. All his devotees had there contribution on that. Even he did alone, he don't have any right to play with others life. If he did wrong he will be punished. In Ammas lotus feet, Ajith - RAJAN Ammachi Wednesday, December 01, 2004 4:25 PM Re: Re: Shankracharaya's confession Om Namah Shivaya I do not know if the Shankaracharya topic is closed in here or not.I feel forced to reply to Ajith's email because from the begining he has been making outlandish claims,verdicts on the case when it has not yet been settled in the court.Frankly speaking I do not know if he is guilty or not.If he is guilty let him be punished appropriately.But claiming that he is guilty even before the case has been settled and that too sharing it on a public forum like this I feel is very inappropriate.I do not claim to know much about Shankaracharya.All I know for sure is that he has done lots of social service activities.Has started lots of schools,colleges,hospitals,etc.Infact "Shankara Netralaya" is the best eye hospital in India and it is totally free for the poor.Poor people from all over India come over there to get treated there.It is very much like the AIMS hospital run by Amma.He has done lots of social work in his life.The Shankara math that he is staying in doesnt have much facilities.It is a very simple math.So it is not like he has been living like a prince or something.Colleges run by Shankara math are damn good and most people who graduate from there get good jobs,etc.I agree that there might be lots of fake saints in India but Shankara math(in kanchipuram) has been a very highly reputed math.There has not been any great controversy on it till now.This is just mind boggling given that it has existed for some 1500 years(I am not sure of when it was established heard it was established even before 1500 years).It is no small achievement.I feel we should keep all this in mind before we make any judgement.There are so many contradicting stories going on in newspapers it is very easy to make judgements.I am not claiming here that because of all the good things he has done he would not have done such a crime,etc.But what I am saying is let us atleast respect him for what he has done in his life so far.And let us not pass verdicts here that he is guilty even the court of law says a person is innocent till proven guilty in court. Rajan Ajith, Whether Shankaracharya is guilt of the crime or not is still an open question.The case has not yet been settled.I just do not know how you can be so very sure that he is guilty.I feel if you have had such a strong evidence against Shankaracharya then you would have talked to the police,concerned officials in India and given your evidence there.Have you done any such thing.If you have not done any such thing and if you do not have any strong evidence other than just the newspaper reports then please stop making such outlandish claims in here.Even if you have given evidence in court,etc Take Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile./maildemo Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi/ b.. Ammachi c.. Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi/ Ammachi The all-new My - What will yours do? Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi/ Ammachi The all-new My – What will yours do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 --- anami ka <anamikafisher wrote: > > > Hi Ajith, > > You are missing the point. Just because torture of > political prisoners happens in many countries does > not make it okay to torture political prisoners in > India and especially in the Shankaracharya case. > Everything the police or the media has said has been > denied by those arrested in this case [lots of stuff snipped] Anami ka and Ajith -- this has degenerated into personal attacks/flames. If you want to continue your dispute, do it off-list. Keval Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Dear Moderator and all, I am sorry if it has become personal attack. I will try not repeat again. At Amma's lotus feet, Ajith - Mike Brooker Ammachi Thursday, December 02, 2004 3:03 PM Re: Re: Shankracharaya's confession --- anami ka <anamikafisher wrote: > > > Hi Ajith, > > You are missing the point. Just because torture of > political prisoners happens in many countries does > not make it okay to torture political prisoners in > India and especially in the Shankaracharya case. > Everything the police or the media has said has been > denied by those arrested in this case [lots of stuff snipped] Anami ka and Ajith -- this has degenerated into personal attacks/flames. If you want to continue your dispute, do it off-list. Keval Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi/ b.. Ammachi c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Ammachi, "Ajith Nair" <ajithnair03> wrote: > Why you people don't think about the person who was killed and about his family. Are they are not human being? If this happens to your family what will you do? Come on don't be so crazy in the name of GOD and Guru's. Come to the reality. Respect good Guru's. God will be always with TRUTH. And that is called GOD. > At Ammas Lotus Feet! > Ajith Moderator, one last post on this one. no, it will not be a personal attack (atleast not an inflamed one). Ajith, These lines of yours confound me, where your sympathy for the victim (ok so far) turns automatically into rage (ok so far) against the acharya (not ok!). Just because you feel for the victim (and everyone should ideally feel for any victim), does not automatically make the Shankaracharya the guilty one! I understand the rage, but not its pre-determined direction! Who is guilty is yet to be determined ... It is possible that the guilty one is not the acharya, but somebody else. because the evidence is circumstantial at best, and they are not even divulging it to the public. so there is no need to pre-judge him. The judgement will be delivered by the judiciary; in the meantime, I suggest you keep your rather strong opinions of the direction of your rage to yourself, because it seems to be premature to me (in hindsight, it might prove that you had foresight and I might turn out to be the dud here, who knows? all I am saying is that practise caution before delivering "final judgement", and you will never go wrong with that approach). That said, I will shut up and post no more on the topic (Amma, help me maintain this resolve even if provoked!) Jai Ma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Ammachi, Mike Brooker <patria1818> wrote: If you want to continue your > dispute, do it off-list. > > Keval Moderator, all. Sorry. Will not happen again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Manoj, I respect moderators request. But you don't have any right to tell what I should do. At Ammas lotus feet, Ajith - manoj_menon Ammachi Thursday, December 02, 2004 4:22 PM Re: Shankracharaya's confession Ammachi, "Ajith Nair" <ajithnair03> wrote: > Why you people don't think about the person who was killed and about his family. Are they are not human being? If this happens to your family what will you do? Come on don't be so crazy in the name of GOD and Guru's. Come to the reality. Respect good Guru's. God will be always with TRUTH. And that is called GOD. > At Ammas Lotus Feet! > Ajith Moderator, one last post on this one. no, it will not be a personal attack (atleast not an inflamed one). Ajith, These lines of yours confound me, where your sympathy for the victim (ok so far) turns automatically into rage (ok so far) against the acharya (not ok!). Just because you feel for the victim (and everyone should ideally feel for any victim), does not automatically make the Shankaracharya the guilty one! I understand the rage, but not its pre-determined direction! Who is guilty is yet to be determined ... It is possible that the guilty one is not the acharya, but somebody else. because the evidence is circumstantial at best, and they are not even divulging it to the public. so there is no need to pre-judge him. The judgement will be delivered by the judiciary; in the meantime, I suggest you keep your rather strong opinions of the direction of your rage to yourself, because it seems to be premature to me (in hindsight, it might prove that you had foresight and I might turn out to be the dud here, who knows? all I am saying is that practise caution before delivering "final judgement", and you will never go wrong with that approach). That said, I will shut up and post no more on the topic (Amma, help me maintain this resolve even if provoked!) Jai Ma! Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! Ammachi/ b.. Ammachi c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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