To GeorgeSon on Seva and Ego

[Guest guest]

GeorgeSon wrote:

 

....Relief work Seva is not isolated to merely easing suffering. Easing

suffering in and of itself is indeed grand. However my sense is that Karma

Yoga

in Relief Operations is designed to benefit the Sevite more than the

victim/refugee. Seva is just a yoga that's all. It is not greater than Raja

Yoga

or Jnana Yoga. In fact Karma Relief Yoga can backfire if one is not careful..

The ego gets pumped up. The mind gets proud of what a good person I am.

See me out there helping? Surely the other devotees must approve of my

selflessness. This is a trap from the ever insidious mind. Beware!!...

 

 

 

Dear GeorgeSon ~ I agree with you that any type of work that benefits

others, whether you call it seva, karma yoga or just helping out has the

potential

to feed the ego. Anything we do or think has the capacity to feed the ego. On

the other hand, I think the ego gets a bit of a bad rap. There is a part of

us, I believe, that needs our ego ~ not the overblown look-at-how-

great-I-am, wow-aren't-I-doing-a-great-job, or even just

aren't-I-the-cat's-meow, part

of the ego ~ but the intelligence that is the best part of the ego, that can

help us discriminate, that lets us walk across the street and not get run

over by a car, that decides "oh, I think I'll be involved in doing this" or

maybe "I'll help out over there." I think it is possible to be too serious, and

Amma is a great teacher by example in showing us how to do "serious" work

while taking the time to smile. Children do this too.

 

I am thinking, to an extent, of the work I have done in my career, which was

always in some way, a kind of helping capacity. Or of the workshops I did. I

was always aware of the potential for ego gratification. In fact, in some

cases, people wanted to put me on a pedestal and make me some kind of authority

figure. I just refused to be put in this position and thought of myself as a

resource or a tool. In some ways, it is in our nature, our best nature, to be

there for one another, to help, to assist. It even feels good, in some ways,

we are "wired" for it, but I don't think this is the same as ego

gratification. One can really feel the difference. It is like the feeling one

gets when

one feels that sense of oneness with all things. In some way, "I" am still

there, yet, "I" am also in everything else, and everything else is in me, and

in another sense, "I" am not there at all It is a paradox.

 

Never would I pass up an opportunity to be useful, even in my now very

limited capacity, just because I was concerned that my ego might get involved or

because I was worried someone might think my ego was involved. My ego can get

involved, and I can get it uninvolved. I don't care if I'm noticed or if

someone says something nice to me ~ that wouldn't be why I would offer

assistance

or seva or selfless service. On the other hand, if someone says something

nice to me, I am going to be appreciative of them and grateful to them, not so

much for the appreciation, but for the sense of connectedness that we then

feel. It is the same if I appreciate someone else. There is a connection ~ it

is

like a spark of electricity, leaping between one heart and another.

 

I really do believe this is a significant part of who we are and why we are

here. In the Chandi Path, there are two thoughts that Durga has to strive

mightily to slay. They are Self-Deprecation and Self-Conceit, two sides of a

coin. Neither are desirable, and I say this with some experience, because in the

past, out of my overly concerned desire to avoid Self-Conceit, I made

Self-Deprecation my very own self. This was not useful for me, nor, do I

believe,

was it really spiritual ... it was just my own fear, my fear of being wrong,

my fear of not being enough.

 

I feel I am beginning to trip over my own words, so I will quit. One more

thing I remember, though, that I'd like to share is what one of my first

painting teachers taught me, and it applies as much to living as to painting.

She

would sometimes look at a painting and say, "it has too much muchness." Now

this may not seem very clear, but in the immediacy of the situation, it was

always perfectly clear. And I believe that Amma would not want us to have too

much muchness either, not too much muchness of Self-Deprecation or of

Self-Conceipt. Just, as you said in another post, the balancing of the prajna.

 

Pranams dear GeorgeSon for giving me things to thing about ~ Linda

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Lindaji:

 

Om Namah Shivaya

 

Thank you for the very well thought out response. I am in accord

with the great majority of your post on Seva and the ego.

 

When in doubt it might be wise to turn to a Realized Master.

 

Sri Ramakrishna Paramahansa had two categories for the ego.

The "ripe ego" and the "unripe ego"

 

If a devotee goes out to the front lines and pitches in during

disaster relief it is indeed super (even if flawed by the mind's

sense of agency..

 

What we hope he leaves at home is her sense of "doership"

The "unripe ego" thinks I am saving these poor people. Another

example might be "I am using my skill here to "help" these brothers

and sisters in distress. A knower of Brahman is more likely to

feel "not I but Thou" A christian mystic might state "I am merely an

instrument"

 

The sense of agency makes even a highly admirable act of

humanitarianism "tainted"

 

Sri Ramakrishna said in the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

There are two types of 'egos', one 'ripe' and the

other 'unripe'. "Nothing is mine, whatever I see or feel, or hear,

nay even this body itself is not mine; I am always eternal, free and

all-knowing" - such ideas arise from the ripe ego. "This is my house,

this is my child, this is my wife, this is my body" - thoughts of

this kind are manifestation of 'unripe ego'.

 

Once again Linda thank you for the thought provoking share. I will

need to re-think this subject thanks to you.

 

With Affection,

 

GeorgeSon

Ammachi, nierika@a... wrote:

>

> GeorgeSon wrote:

>

> ...Relief work Seva is not isolated to merely easing suffering.

Easing

> suffering in and of itself is indeed grand. However my sense is

that Karma Yoga

> in Relief Operations is designed to benefit the Sevite more than

the

> victim/refugee. Seva is just a yoga that's all. It is not

greater than Raja Yoga

> or Jnana Yoga. In fact Karma Relief Yoga can backfire if one is

not careful..

> The ego gets pumped up. The mind gets proud of what a good person

I am.

> See me out there helping? Surely the other devotees must approve

of my

> selflessness. This is a trap from the ever insidious mind.

Beware!!...

>

>

>

> Dear GeorgeSon ~ I agree with you that any type of work that

benefits

> others, whether you call it seva, karma yoga or just helping out

has the potential

> to feed the ego. Anything we do or think has the capacity to feed

the ego. On

> the other hand, I think the ego gets a bit of a bad rap. There is a

part of

> us, I believe, that needs our ego ~ not the overblown look-at-how-

> great-I-am, wow-aren't-I-doing-a-great-job, or even just aren't-I-

the-cat's-meow, part

> of the ego ~ but the intelligence that is the best part of the

ego, that can

> help us discriminate, that lets us walk across the street and not

get run

> over by a car, that decides "oh, I think I'll be involved in doing

this" or

> maybe "I'll help out over there." I think it is possible to be too

serious, and

> Amma is a great teacher by example in showing us how to

do "serious" work

> while taking the time to smile. Children do this too.

>

> I am thinking, to an extent, of the work I have done in my career,

which was

> always in some way, a kind of helping capacity. Or of the workshops

I did. I

> was always aware of the potential for ego gratification. In fact,

in some

> cases, people wanted to put me on a pedestal and make me some kind

of authority

> figure. I just refused to be put in this position and thought of

myself as a

> resource or a tool. In some ways, it is in our nature, our best

nature, to be

> there for one another, to help, to assist. It even feels good, in

some ways,

> we are "wired" for it, but I don't think this is the same as ego

> gratification. One can really feel the difference. It is like the

feeling one gets when

> one feels that sense of oneness with all things. In some way, "I"

am still

> there, yet, "I" am also in everything else, and everything else is

in me, and

> in another sense, "I" am not there at all It is a paradox.

>

> Never would I pass up an opportunity to be useful, even in my now

very

> limited capacity, just because I was concerned that my ego might

get involved or

> because I was worried someone might think my ego was involved. My

ego can get

> involved, and I can get it uninvolved. I don't care if I'm noticed

or if

> someone says something nice to me ~ that wouldn't be why I would

offer assistance

> or seva or selfless service. On the other hand, if someone says

something

> nice to me, I am going to be appreciative of them and grateful to

them, not so

> much for the appreciation, but for the sense of connectedness that

we then

> feel. It is the same if I appreciate someone else. There is a

connection ~ it is

> like a spark of electricity, leaping between one heart and

another.

>

> I really do believe this is a significant part of who we are and

why we are

> here. In the Chandi Path, there are two thoughts that Durga has to

strive

> mightily to slay. They are Self-Deprecation and Self-Conceit, two

sides of a

> coin. Neither are desirable, and I say this with some experience,

because in the

> past, out of my overly concerned desire to avoid Self-Conceit, I

made

> Self-Deprecation my very own self. This was not useful for me, nor,

do I believe,

> was it really spiritual ... it was just my own fear, my fear of

being wrong,

> my fear of not being enough.

>

> I feel I am beginning to trip over my own words, so I will quit.

One more

> thing I remember, though, that I'd like to share is what one of my

first

> painting teachers taught me, and it applies as much to living as to

painting. She

> would sometimes look at a painting and say, "it has too much

muchness." Now

> this may not seem very clear, but in the immediacy of the

situation, it was

> always perfectly clear. And I believe that Amma would not want us

to have too

> much muchness either, not too much muchness of Self-Deprecation or

of

> Self-Conceipt. Just, as you said in another post, the balancing of

the prajna.

>

> Pranams dear GeorgeSon for giving me things to thing about ~ Linda

>

>

>