Guest guest Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Just saw this after getting it off Netflix. I was as disappointed as after reading Bhagavan Das's autobiography (what a phony!). The best part of Fierce Grace is the very beginning when he's humbled by recalling the time of his stroke, that it showed he wasn't finished yet. He still wasted time teaching before reaching an adequate level. His counseling of devotees seemed inadequate, and revealed his level. So much time wasted in the name of fun, so high a price for Adharma. Always a heartbreak when your low opinion of someone spiritually famous is confirmed. tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Dear Tom, what may seem inadequate to you may be inspiring to someone else. We never really know what's in anyone else's hearts or what the ultimate outcome of anyone's actions may be. Even if Ram Dass isn't "finished" yet, that's not to say that others can't be moved by his story or find something in his teaching that sparks them toward finding truth, themselves. Sometimes you find what you need in even the most unexpected places. I mean, whatever opinions I may have about Bhagavan Das, personally, he was my first exposure to kirtan many years ago, which is something that spoke to my soul in a way few other practices did. I'm grateful for that, even though I wouldn't have him for a guru. Iswari Ammachi, "Tom" <tomgull@h...> wrote: > > Just saw this after getting it off Netflix. I was as disappointed as > after reading Bhagavan Das's autobiography (what a phony!). The best > part of Fierce Grace is the very beginning when he's humbled by > recalling the time of his stroke, that it showed he wasn't finished > yet. He still wasted time teaching before reaching an adequate level. > > His counseling of devotees seemed inadequate, and revealed his level. > So much time wasted in the name of fun, so high a price for Adharma. > Always a heartbreak when your low opinion of someone spiritually famous > is confirmed. > > tom > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Dear Tom, Personally, I cried and cried when I watched Fierce Grace. I felt it speak to me on a very deep level and felt very moved by it. To each his own. Erica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Om Namah Shivayah, My two cents on this film. It is one of my favorites. Why? Because in a sort of six degrees of separation, it led me to Amma. I watched Fierce Grace and was very moved. Probably the most moved I have been by a documentary. Through the film, I came to know of Neem Karoli Baba, whom I found interesting and wanted to know more about. Reading a book about him led me to the book by Bhagavan Das, "It's Here Now, Are You?". I think it was the last chapter in the book where he detailed his meeting with Amma. As I read his account, I felt compelled to know more of this woman. Everything he said about her sounded familiar to me, as if he were describing a distant relative I had hardly known. The next day, I remember going on the Internet, trying to find out everything I could about "Ammachi." I was brought to Amma through a carefully crafted paper trail it seems So, of course Fierce Grace is one of my favorites! It served as the catalyst of my coming home! Namaste! Ananthasree http://www.ammaschildren.com Ammachi, "ammasiswari" <ammasiswari> wrote: > > Dear Tom, what may seem inadequate to you may be inspiring to someone else. We never > really know what's in anyone else's hearts or what the ultimate outcome of anyone's > actions may be. Even if Ram Dass isn't "finished" yet, that's not to say that others can't be > moved by his story or find something in his teaching that sparks them toward finding > truth, themselves. Sometimes you find what you need in even the most unexpected places. > I mean, whatever opinions I may have about Bhagavan Das, personally, he was my first > exposure to kirtan many years ago, which is something that spoke to my soul in a way few > other practices did. I'm grateful for that, even though I wouldn't have him for a guru. > > Iswari > > Ammachi, "Tom" <tomgull@h...> wrote: > > > > Just saw this after getting it off Netflix. I was as disappointed as > > after reading Bhagavan Das's autobiography (what a phony!). The best > > part of Fierce Grace is the very beginning when he's humbled by > > recalling the time of his stroke, that it showed he wasn't finished > > yet. He still wasted time teaching before reaching an adequate level. > > > > His counseling of devotees seemed inadequate, and revealed his level. > > So much time wasted in the name of fun, so high a price for Adharma. > > Always a heartbreak when your low opinion of someone spiritually famous > > is confirmed. > > > > tom > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 on 10/19/05 7:05 PM, Tom at tomgull wrote: > Just saw this after getting it off Netflix. I was as disappointed as > after reading Bhagavan Das's autobiography (what a phony!). The best > part of Fierce Grace is the very beginning when he's humbled by > recalling the time of his stroke, that it showed he wasn't finished > yet. He still wasted time teaching before reaching an adequate level. If all teachers had to be at the highest level, there wouldn't be enough teachers. You don't need a nuclear physicist to teach 1st grade. Ram Das was an eloquent, inspiring, and funny speaker. Inspired thousands of people, many of whom surely moved on to other teachers, as we all have throughout life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Ammachi, "Tom" <tomgull@h...> wrote: > > Just saw this after getting it off Netflix. I was as disappointed as > after reading Bhagavan Das's autobiography (what a phony!). > tom I thought that Bhagavan Das's autobiography seemed anything but phony. Without going into the good/bad dichotomy, he presented his experiences as they were, and I learned a thing or two. I remember once Dayamrita was reading from his book to Amma during darshan in San Ramon (probably he had presented the copy to Amma), and Amma was enjoying it with giggles. I have not seen Fierce Grace. Nandu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 Points taken, I don't doubt Ram Das or even Bh.Das have positive influences on people, but it's the finer negative ones that matter in the end, for a true aspirant, versus a regular spiritual person. It's his general approach and philosophy (along with Bh. Das's) that is deceiving (like Osho's words). tom Ammachi, "ammasiswari" <ammasiswari> wrote: > > Dear Tom, what may seem inadequate to you may be inspiring to someone else. We never > really know what's in anyone else's hearts or what the ultimate outcome of anyone's > actions may be. Even if Ram Dass isn't "finished" yet, that's not to say that others can't be > moved by his story or find something in his teaching that sparks them toward finding > truth, themselves. Sometimes you find what you need in even the most unexpected places. > I mean, whatever opinions I may have about Bhagavan Das, personally, he was my first > exposure to kirtan many years ago, which is something that spoke to my soul in a way few > other practices did. I'm grateful for that, even though I wouldn't have him for a guru. > > Iswari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 His mystical experiences were just that. So much experience, but so little growth and understanding. Hearing his words from local devotees showed me he still doesn't know what he's talking about after all this time. Ram Das's and his use of hallucinogenic aids was unwarranted considering their options (in other words, it wasn't a lasat resort use). Adharma all the way... and the expected result. Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn@h...> wrote: > I thought that Bhagavan Das's autobiography seemed anything but > phony. Without going into the good/bad dichotomy, he presented his > experiences as they were, and I learned a thing or two. I remember > once Dayamrita was reading from his book to Amma during darshan in San > Ramon (probably he had presented the copy to Amma), and Amma was > enjoying it with giggles. > > I have not seen Fierce Grace. > > Nandu > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 Ammachi, "Tom" <tomgull@h...> wrote: > > His mystical experiences were just that. So much experience, but so > little growth and understanding. Hearing his words from local > devotees showed me he still doesn't know what he's talking about after > all this time. Ram Das's and his use of hallucinogenic aids was > unwarranted considering their options (in other words, it wasn't a > lasat resort use). Adharma all the way... and the expected > result. > > > > Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn@h...> wrote: > > I thought that Bhagavan Das's autobiography seemed anything but > > phony. Without going into the good/bad dichotomy, he presented his > > experiences as they were, and I learned a thing or two. I remember > > once Dayamrita was reading from his book to Amma during darshan in > San > > Ramon (probably he had presented the copy to Amma), and Amma was > > enjoying it with giggles. > > > > I have not seen Fierce Grace. > > > > Nandu > > > Great thing about Ram Dass is his honesty. He doesn't hide his shortcomings, and doesn't pretend to be something he isn't. The way he reacts positively to an utterly debilitating condition says volumes about his character. He is a good man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 I've been watching this thread now for awhile and felt compelled to throw my words here. I've seen Fierce Grace and was very much moved by it. Q. Do I think Ram Das is a great devotee? Has he showed "so little growth and understanding?" A. Who knows and who am I to judge? I do know he's influenced many a soul to seek out a spiritual path, and for that I honor him. As someone else said on this site, he is a good man. As for Bhagavan Das, a true wild man sage, I am floored by his loud energy and his bombastic stories. Everyone knows his dirty laundry, mostly because BD tells everyone. Bhagavan Das did turn me onto Amma, though, and for that, he always has a special place in my heart. Many blessings to everyone! -Achyut In Ammachi, "Tom" <tomgull@h...> wrote: > > His mystical experiences were just that. So much experience, but so > little growth and understanding. Hearing his words from local > devotees showed me he still doesn't know what he's talking about after > all this time. Ram Das's and his use of hallucinogenic aids was > unwarranted considering their options (in other words, it wasn't a > lasat resort use). Adharma all the way... and the expected > result. > > > > Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn@h...> wrote: > > I thought that Bhagavan Das's autobiography seemed anything but > > phony. Without going into the good/bad dichotomy, he presented his > > experiences as they were, and I learned a thing or two. I remember > > once Dayamrita was reading from his book to Amma during darshan in > San > > Ramon (probably he had presented the copy to Amma), and Amma was > > enjoying it with giggles. > > > > I have not seen Fierce Grace. > > > > Nandu > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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