Thoughts (Some help needed here ...)

[Guest guest]

Since the discussion is turning out to be interesting, I have kept

relevant portions only here, and snipped out the earlier history.

 

Ammachi, Rick Archer <rick@s...> wrote:

> > The entire process of mantra chanting is to reduce our thoughts

> and our need for thinking in this general scheme:

> >

> > Many thoughts ----> reduced to one constant thought (mantra) --->

> > reduced to NO THOUGHT

>

> While meditating. After meditating, we resume thinking and activity,

> hopefully with more silence established.

 

True.

 

> >with the help of the Guru's Grace, which is

> > considered as enlightenment.

>

> Temporary samadhi is not enlightenment.

 

Agreed.

 

 

> > This means that eventually even the mantra is a hindrance to

> > realization.

 

> The mantra is left behind when the mind merges with the transcendent

> during meditation. When realization is established, it remains

> whether or not thinking or acting are taking place.

 

Ok.

 

> > Looked at it another way, "Even a thought is a hindrance to

> > realize the Self".

>

> The opposite could be argued. It takes a thorn to remove a thorn.

> The Self is realized through transcending thought, and that is done

> by experiencing finer states of a thought until thought is

> transcended. A car is a hindrance to enjoying the Grand Canyon, but

> it is essential for getting there. Once you arrive, you get out of

> the car.

 

I don't disagree with this. Notice the word "eventually even the

mantra ..." used in my earlier statement; it echoes the same sentiment

as your example of the car.

 

 

> > Because the Self is greater than thought, it can't be of the level

> > of, derived from, or a function of composite, thoughts.

>

> It's the other way around. If the Brahman is omnipresent, wholeness,

> then everything, including thoughts, is contained within it, like

> fish in the ocean.

 

Here I have to differ, but only slightly ..... If Brahman includes

"thoughts" as you say and I concur to that too, all I am saying is

that Brahman is not "thoughts", or totally (or otherwise) defined by

it or anything tangible.

 

Please note that these are not experiential inputs, so i ain't no guru

yet!