Guest guest Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 My quest for satsang is an attempt to practice Amma's teachings on the matter. Like I had said, Many, many, many devotees have left the satsang because they saw it was a no-win situation, but they don't want to be seen bad-mouthing the group. I've met plenty of Ashramites that may claim they accept everything as "prasad" but it's not always the case. In one particular case, a Swami (their supervisor on tour) nicely informed an ashramite of inappropriate behavior towards fellow staffers, but this ashramite saw it as his co-workers' problem ("they were taking it the wrong way", etc). After I had a long talk with him, discriminating the facts (his life's choice vs. behavior) he was able to see things "as they were" and he adjusted his behavior. The swami was both his supervisor and didn't yell or anything, yet it wasn't enough. Imagine if you're a regular devotee trying to fix the same problem with that kind of resistence, even from an ashramite. Here's my main question: If you're in charge, and anything you do is considered Unquestionable (Amma put so-and-so in charge, who put you in charge, etc) then how can you learn, when you're never wrong? It's discriminating people that realize that the Amma satsang (or any group) operates in this kind of mode when they leave. Dayamrita's quote is the difference between "philosophical" teachings and "practical teachings". Try to practice what he said, and you'll end up with the problems that the group(s) has now. There's a difference between healthy conflict in groups/relationships and unhealthy. You want the conflict in your life to help you grow more healthy and steer towards the goal, not away from it into ignorance and tamas. tom Ammachi, "Adriane" <a1driane wrote: > > Hi Tom, > I've read all the posts with interest. I have to laugh because human > relationships are fraught with difficulties by their very nature! > And I laugh because I am certainly no exception. I fly off the > handle once in a while and then look back and think, OMG-I need a > chill pill! I am quite sure that that is not the guru's fault. lol I > cannot imagine leaving Amma. Once you find your guru, there is no > other For those who do leave, it is simply that Amma is not really > their guru. > > Our Satsang is pretty small. We sometimes get a good upward wind of > 10 or so and other times, there are 3 of us. But many come out of > the woodwork for special events-which is nice. I guess what I may be > trying to say is this: even with our small group, we have had small > challenges along the way. We are all just people and things > come up once in a while. > But for the larger part, Satsang is an incredibly blissful > experience. Our Satsangs are almost miraculous by design. We follow > Swami Dayamrita's format or whoever designed it- > maybe it was from Amma, I don't know. But it has been great. I'm > sorry you haven't found that yet where you are. But I am sure not > everyone who is a devotee in your area is as you describe. Perhaps > things will come together for you. Where one door closes, another > opens... > > You have had your challenges and it's ok to air them here. I agree > "How do we know if we are always doing the right actions, > doing the right thing? How do we know if we will get to the goal > knowing we make so many mistakes?" He replied, "Having Amma for your > guru, you need not worry. It is like the lamb's head in the Lion's > mouth. She (Amma) will not let you go." > > I hope this is somehow helpful. > thanks, > > Jai Ma, Jai Jai Ma.... > adriane > > > -- In Ammachi, "Tom" <tomgull@> wrote: > > > > > > I do believe the original discussion was about the DC area Amma > groups. > > I have been to one Boston area event a while ago, and while there > were > > some obvious politics involved, they were better organized in > general. > > DC got so bad that I once overheard an organizer say that Swami > > Ramakrishna refused to come to DC, always giving excuses (for a > period > > of time, he's since come) > > > > Your earlier response is typical of people here that host satsang, > who > > honestly feel they're being devoted by merely hosting it and doing > seva > > for the tour. It's doesn't change the truth of the situation. > > > > Amma doesn't teach the complacency that goes on. I can guess > that some > > people stop getting involved because of the cult-like > administrative > > styles and the hidden/secret actions taken. > > > > Dharma is Dharma, and bowing to Cheapness and Laziness is why the > DC > > area is in the shape it's in. These 2 unholy residents are why > there's > > no East Coast ashram/amma center, not because Amma doesn't want one > > there. > > > > A constant supply of "fresh blood" (new members) often gives a > false > > impression to a group, spiritual or otherwise. A sudden or > large > > hemorraging of members or support is always a sign that something > is > > seriously wrong. "Fresh blood" conceals this, as members will > leave > > (often as a last result) as time reveals the truth. > > > > There is a definite effort to suppress unrest, rather than > embracing the > > Truth. Dayamrita's "invite only" meeting here (the first of > > re-organizational meetings in late 2003) is a great example of > this. > > Other's don't want to be seen "bad-mouthing" their guru, so they > merely > > stop attending, and in some cases change guru altogether because > of the > > experience. > > > > We really don't know how it is across the country, so both of us > can > > only guess. There's also different levels of discrimination, as > the > > current DC satsang members obviously don't have a problem with it > to > > continue going. So what's acceptible to one sadhak, may not be > for > > another. As Amma has said, for satsang to be beneficial, it has > to be > > "real satsang". > > > > tom > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Well put. I certainly was not in disagreement with you. I have run into some disagreeable people on Amma's tours before. Some stress levels seem to escalate when some try to organize everything. While there are others who handle it very well. People are what they are. But I have run into toxic people just about anywhere, too. Being in this environment of spiritual devotion does not exclude anyone. It is really no different than people in the world at large. There will be all types, from all backgrounds. Being an Ashramite is no exception. I'm sure you've read some of Amma's books and they have their struggles as many of us do as well. And you probably know far more than I do as I am fairly new to Amma. I am not an Ashramite. But I'm guessing living there is hardly a ticket to suddenly becoming perfect in all actions. But it's too bad that things are not working out for Satsang in your particular group. Hopefully another door will open for a Satsang. That was my main point overall. adriane Ammachi, "Tom" <tomgull wrote: > > My quest for satsang is an attempt to practice Amma's teachings on > the matter. Like I had said, Many, many, many devotees have left > the satsang because they saw it was a no-win situation, but they > don't want to be seen bad-mouthing the group. > > I've met plenty of Ashramites that may claim they accept everything > as "prasad" but it's not always the case. In one particular case, a > Swami (their supervisor on tour) nicely informed an ashramite of > inappropriate behavior towards fellow staffers, but this ashramite > saw it as his co-workers' problem ("they were taking it the wrong > way", etc). After I had a long talk with him, discriminating the > facts (his life's choice vs. behavior) he was able to see things "as > they were" and he adjusted his behavior. The swami was both his > supervisor and didn't yell or anything, yet it wasn't enough. > Imagine if you're a regular devotee trying to fix the same problem > with that kind of resistence, even from an ashramite. > > Here's my main question: If you're in charge, and anything you do > is considered Unquestionable (Amma put so-and-so in charge, who put > you in charge, etc) then how can you learn, when you're never wrong? > It's discriminating people that realize that the Amma satsang (or any > group) operates in this kind of mode when they leave. > > Dayamrita's quote is the difference between "philosophical" teachings > and "practical teachings". Try to practice what he said, and > you'll end up with the problems that the group(s) has now. > > There's a difference between healthy conflict in groups/relationships > and unhealthy. You want the conflict in your life to help you grow > more healthy and steer towards the goal, not away from it into > ignorance and tamas. > > tom > > > Ammachi, "Adriane" <a1driane@> wrote: > > > > Hi Tom, > > I've read all the posts with interest. I have to laugh because > human > > relationships are fraught with difficulties by their very nature! > > And I laugh because I am certainly no exception. I fly off the > > handle once in a while and then look back and think, OMG-I need a > > chill pill! I am quite sure that that is not the guru's fault. lol > I > > cannot imagine leaving Amma. Once you find your guru, there is no > > other For those who do leave, it is simply that Amma is not really > > their guru. > > > > Our Satsang is pretty small. We sometimes get a good upward wind of > > 10 or so and other times, there are 3 of us. But many come out of > > the woodwork for special events-which is nice. I guess what I may > be > > trying to say is this: even with our small group, we have had small > > challenges along the way. We are all just people and things > > come up once in a while. > > But for the larger part, Satsang is an incredibly blissful > > experience. Our Satsangs are almost miraculous by design. We follow > > Swami Dayamrita's format or whoever designed it- > > maybe it was from Amma, I don't know. But it has been great. I'm > > sorry you haven't found that yet where you are. But I am sure not > > everyone who is a devotee in your area is as you describe. Perhaps > > things will come together for you. Where one door closes, another > > opens... > > > > You have had your challenges and it's ok to air them here. I agree > > "How do we know if we are always doing the right actions, > > doing the right thing? How do we know if we will get to the goal > > knowing we make so many mistakes?" He replied, "Having Amma for > your > > guru, you need not worry. It is like the lamb's head in the Lion's > > mouth. She (Amma) will not let you go." > > > > I hope this is somehow helpful. > > thanks, > > > > Jai Ma, Jai Jai Ma.... > > adriane > > > > > > -- In Ammachi, "Tom" <tomgull@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I do believe the original discussion was about the DC area Amma > > groups. > > > I have been to one Boston area event a while ago, and while there > > were > > > some obvious politics involved, they were better organized in > > general. > > > DC got so bad that I once overheard an organizer say that Swami > > > Ramakrishna refused to come to DC, always giving excuses (for a > > period > > > of time, he's since come) > > > > > > Your earlier response is typical of people here that host > satsang, > > who > > > honestly feel they're being devoted by merely hosting it and > doing > > seva > > > for the tour. It's doesn't change the truth of the situation. > > > > > > Amma doesn't teach the complacency that goes on. I can guess > > that some > > > people stop getting involved because of the cult-like > > administrative > > > styles and the hidden/secret actions taken. > > > > > > Dharma is Dharma, and bowing to Cheapness and Laziness is why the > > DC > > > area is in the shape it's in. These 2 unholy residents are why > > there's > > > no East Coast ashram/amma center, not because Amma doesn't want > one > > > there. > > > > > > A constant supply of "fresh blood" (new members) often gives a > > false > > > impression to a group, spiritual or otherwise. A sudden or > > large > > > hemorraging of members or support is always a sign that something > > is > > > seriously wrong. "Fresh blood" conceals this, as members will > > leave > > > (often as a last result) as time reveals the truth. > > > > > > There is a definite effort to suppress unrest, rather than > > embracing the > > > Truth. Dayamrita's "invite only" meeting here (the first of > > > re-organizational meetings in late 2003) is a great example of > > this. > > > Other's don't want to be seen "bad-mouthing" their guru, so they > > merely > > > stop attending, and in some cases change guru altogether because > > of the > > > experience. > > > > > > We really don't know how it is across the country, so both of us > > can > > > only guess. There's also different levels of discrimination, as > > the > > > current DC satsang members obviously don't have a problem with it > > to > > > continue going. So what's acceptible to one sadhak, may not be > > for > > > another. As Amma has said, for satsang to be beneficial, it > has > > to be > > > "real satsang". > > > > > > tom > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 I agree. There are all sorts of people everywhere, and just because they are Amma devotees doesn't mean that they are going to be together folks. Good luck to you Tom. Prasadini Adriane wrote: > Well put. I certainly was not in disagreement with you. I have run > into some disagreeable people on Amma's tours before. Some stress > levels seem to escalate when some try to organize everything. While > there are others who handle it very well. People are what they are. > But I have run into toxic people just about anywhere, too. Being in > this environment of spiritual devotion does not exclude anyone. It > is really no different than people in the world at large. There will > be all types, from all backgrounds. Being an Ashramite is no > exception. I'm sure you've read some of Amma's books and they have > their struggles as many of us do as well. And you probably know far > more than I do as I am fairly new to Amma. I am not an Ashramite. > But I'm guessing living there is hardly a ticket to suddenly > becoming perfect in all actions. > > But it's too bad that things are not working out for Satsang in your > particular group. Hopefully another door will open for a Satsang. > That was my main point overall. > > adriane > > > > > Ammachi, "Tom" <tomgull wrote: > > > > My quest for satsang is an attempt to practice Amma's teachings on > > the matter. Like I had said, Many, many, many devotees have left > > the satsang because they saw it was a no-win situation, but they > > don't want to be seen bad-mouthing the group. > > > > I've met plenty of Ashramites that may claim they accept > everything > > as "prasad" but it's not always the case. In one particular > case, a > > Swami (their supervisor on tour) nicely informed an ashramite of > > inappropriate behavior towards fellow staffers, but this ashramite > > saw it as his co-workers' problem ("they were taking it the wrong > > way", etc). After I had a long talk with him, discriminating the > > facts (his life's choice vs. behavior) he was able to see > things "as > > they were" and he adjusted his behavior. The swami was both his > > supervisor and didn't yell or anything, yet it wasn't enough. > > Imagine if you're a regular devotee trying to fix the same problem > > with that kind of resistence, even from an ashramite. > > > > Here's my main question: If you're in charge, and anything you > do > > is considered Unquestionable (Amma put so-and-so in charge, who > put > > you in charge, etc) then how can you learn, when you're never > wrong? > > It's discriminating people that realize that the Amma satsang (or > any > > group) operates in this kind of mode when they leave. > > > > Dayamrita's quote is the difference between "philosophical" > teachings > > and "practical teachings". Try to practice what he said, and > > you'll end up with the problems that the group(s) has now. > > > > There's a difference between healthy conflict in > groups/relationships > > and unhealthy. You want the conflict in your life to help you > grow > > more healthy and steer towards the goal, not away from it into > > ignorance and tamas. > > > > tom > > > > > > Ammachi, "Adriane" <a1driane@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Tom, > > > I've read all the posts with interest. I have to laugh because > > human > > > relationships are fraught with difficulties by their very > nature! > > > And I laugh because I am certainly no exception. I fly off the > > > handle once in a while and then look back and think, OMG-I need > a > > > chill pill! I am quite sure that that is not the guru's fault. > lol > > I > > > cannot imagine leaving Amma. Once you find your guru, there is > no > > > other For those who do leave, it is simply that Amma is not > really > > > their guru. > > > > > > Our Satsang is pretty small. We sometimes get a good upward wind > of > > > 10 or so and other times, there are 3 of us. But many come out > of > > > the woodwork for special events-which is nice. I guess what I > may > > be > > > trying to say is this: even with our small group, we have had > small > > > challenges along the way. We are all just people and things > > > come up once in a while. > > > But for the larger part, Satsang is an incredibly blissful > > > experience. Our Satsangs are almost miraculous by design. We > follow > > > Swami Dayamrita's format or whoever designed it- > > > maybe it was from Amma, I don't know. But it has been great. I'm > > > sorry you haven't found that yet where you are. But I am sure > not > > > everyone who is a devotee in your area is as you describe. > Perhaps > > > things will come together for you. Where one door closes, > another > > > opens... > > > > > > You have had your challenges and it's ok to air them here. I > agree > > > "How do we know if we are always doing the right actions, > > > doing the right thing? How do we know if we will get to the goal > > > knowing we make so many mistakes?" He replied, "Having Amma for > > your > > > guru, you need not worry. It is like the lamb's head in the > Lion's > > > mouth. She (Amma) will not let you go." > > > > > > I hope this is somehow helpful. > > > thanks, > > > > > > Jai Ma, Jai Jai Ma.... > > > adriane > > > > > > > > > -- In Ammachi, "Tom" <tomgull@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I do believe the original discussion was about the DC area > Amma > > > groups. > > > > I have been to one Boston area event a while ago, and while > there > > > were > > > > some obvious politics involved, they were better organized in > > > general. > > > > DC got so bad that I once overheard an organizer say that Swami > > > > Ramakrishna refused to come to DC, always giving excuses (for > a > > > period > > > > of time, he's since come) > > > > > > > > Your earlier response is typical of people here that host > > satsang, > > > who > > > > honestly feel they're being devoted by merely hosting it and > > doing > > > seva > > > > for the tour. It's doesn't change the truth of the situation. > > > > > > > > Amma doesn't teach the complacency that goes on. I can guess > > > that some > > > > people stop getting involved because of the cult-like > > > administrative > > > > styles and the hidden/secret actions taken. > > > > > > > > Dharma is Dharma, and bowing to Cheapness and Laziness is why > the > > > DC > > > > area is in the shape it's in. These 2 unholy residents are > why > > > there's > > > > no East Coast ashram/amma center, not because Amma doesn't > want > > one > > > > there. > > > > > > > > A constant supply of "fresh blood" (new members) often gives a > > > false > > > > impression to a group, spiritual or otherwise. A sudden or > > > large > > > > hemorraging of members or support is always a sign that > something > > > is > > > > seriously wrong. "Fresh blood" conceals this, as members > will > > > leave > > > > (often as a last result) as time reveals the truth. > > > > > > > > There is a definite effort to suppress unrest, rather than > > > embracing the > > > > Truth. Dayamrita's "invite only" meeting here (the first of > > > > re-organizational meetings in late 2003) is a great example of > > > this. > > > > Other's don't want to be seen "bad-mouthing" their guru, so > they > > > merely > > > > stop attending, and in some cases change guru altogether > because > > > of the > > > > experience. > > > > > > > > We really don't know how it is across the country, so both of > us > > > can > > > > only guess. There's also different levels of discrimination, > as > > > the > > > > current DC satsang members obviously don't have a problem with > it > > > to > > > > continue going. So what's acceptible to one sadhak, may not > be > > > for > > > > another. As Amma has said, for satsang to be beneficial, it > > has > > > to be > > > > "real satsang". > > > > > > > > tom > > > > > > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > > > > Mata amritanandamayi > </gads?t=ms&k=Mata+amritanandamayi&w1=Mata+amritanandamay\ i&c=1&s=26&.sig=DYRmPW4tjbUZrNprNMY6xw> > > > > ------ > > > * Visit your group "Ammachi > <Ammachi>" on the web. > > * > Ammachi > <Ammachi?subject=Un> > > * Terms of > Service <>. > > > ------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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