Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Please add my sister to all your prayer lists, her name is Cheryl Inez Smith, she lives in Seattle, Washington, USA - she recently had seven episodes of her pacemaker firing, was hospitalized and while she is out of the hospital, her heart is not well. She was born with a congenital defect. Pray for her recovery and help with hospital bills. Please add her to the prayer list for three months. Thanks... Ammachi wrote: There are 22 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Re: Val and Sara "sara" 2. Re: YOU HAVE FREEWILL -Nandu "labd2929" 3. Re: YOU HAVE FREEWILL "kasi_visvanath" 4. Re: Suffering, pain and guilt Prasadini 5. bnb "lsikand" 6. Re: YOU HAVE FREEWILL "vallathnkumar" 7. Re: Suffering, pain and guilt Devi's Daughter 8. Re: Suffering, pain and guilt "temba spirits" 9. re: free will debate "kasi_visvanath" 10. Re: Suffering, pain and guilt Michele Doane Greenstein 11. Re: Swami Dayamrita Blessing => "new" posts "amarnath" 12. Re: YOU HAVE FREEWILL "amarnath" 13. Re: Suffering, pain and guilt "amarnath" 14. Amma Quote "amarnath" 15. Vedic Mathematics "Sridhar Babu" 16. Re: Suffering, pain to love and open hearts "sara" 17. 'The Greatest Miracle Is Mental Peace' Devi's Daughter 18. interesting info I found on Gayatri "Mahamuni" 19. inherent pranayam "Mahamuni" 20. Re: YOU HAVE FREEWILL -Nandu "ecjensen_us" 21. Re: Re: Swami Dayamrita Blessing => "new" posts Ardis Jackson 22. Re: interesting info I found on Gayatri -Surya "ecjensen_us" ______________________ ______________________ Message: 1 Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:13:25 -0000 "sara" Re: Val and Sara Om Namashivaya Dear Supriti, yes , I was in the parade. My fellow devotee Asa, - Vani - ,and I represented Iceland, along with Premarupa, who helped us a lot in carrying things, as I just held onto my crutches to walk with . So, if you saw Premarupa in the parade, we were with her. Vani and I are in the video, in costume, at the very, very end of the video, for maybe 3 seconds. It was a wonderful experience. When we walked into the tent to get into costume we entered a very confused, and stifling hot situation. Then, when we finaly started to march a wonderful feeling of joy came over us. Did you feel it ? Iceland was grouped with the I's ( Iraq,Iran,Ireland, Israel). Maybe you were with the U's, for USA. How were you dressed in the parade, and are you in the video ? In Amma's Love, sara - Iceland --- > Sara, I was at AV 50 - I can't believe we didn't meet. Were you in the parade of nations. Are you on the video in costume? I was in the parade...it was so much fun! > Om Namashivaya - In Amma's service, > Supriti Omenka Nnadi --------------------------- ______________________ ______________________ Message: 2 Sun, 16 Apr 2006 17:10:15 -0000 "labd2929" Re: YOU HAVE FREEWILL -Nandu I think the crux to this matter is being able to define the "you" that is supposed to either have freewill or not. When pressed on this matter, most people who debate this issue don't have an answer. But without knowing what the "you" is whose freewill is being debated, the debate itself is meaningless, in the sense that a resolution will never come about (although it may provide entertainment no doubt and may be meaningful in that sense) labd Ammachi, "manoj_menon" wrote: > > Another way of looking at it, paraphrased from Ramana Maharishi. > > You have FREEWILL so long as you THINK you are independent and are > IGNORANT of your UNITY with GOD. > > The moment such thinking vanishes, you are SURRENDERED and your life, > actions, and will are all GOD. > > The THINKing is the fallacy; till such time, you carry with you the > ILLUSION of FREEWILL, and the concomitant laws of karma bind you to it. > > Once the THINKing goes away, the laws of karma may still act on you, > but dont BIND you to it. > > > > I think it is critical to evaluate the audience Swami Sivananda was > addressing..... If I juxtapose both viewpoints together, Swami was > probably addressing the NON-REALIZED crowd who was acting > irresponsibly in their lives. > > Jai Ma! > > > > Ammachi, "ecjensen_us" wrote: > > > > your viewing this absurd is a great example. it's your freewill to > > think it so. if i think something not possible it won't be for me. > > > > Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" wrote: > > > > > > I find this article absurd. Amma too, says (paraphrased), "The > > > president may think that he can push a red button at any time to > > cause > > > the destruction of another nation with nuclear missiles, but does > > he > > > wonder where that impulse to push the button comes from?" God > > alone > > > is the doer. > > > > > > Nandu > > > > > > Ammachi, "ecjensen_us" wrote: > > > > > > > > OM NAMAH SIVAYA > > > > > > > > SIVANANDA DAILY READING FOR 16 APRIL > > > > YOU HAVE FREEWILL > > > > > > > > > > > > Some ignorant people say: "Karma does everything. It is all > > destiny. > > > > If I am destined by my karma to be like this or like that, why > > then > > > > should I exert? It is my destiny only." This is fatalism. This > > will > > > > bring inertia, stagnation and misery. This is perfect > > > > misunderstanding of the laws of karma. This is a fallacious > > argument. > > > > > > > > An intelligent man will certainly not put such a question. You > > have > > > > made your own destiny from within by your thoughts and actions. > > You > > > > have a free will to choose now. You have freedom in action. A > > rogue > > > > is not an eternal rogue. Put him in the company of a saint. He > > will > > > > change in no time. He will think and act now in a different way > > and > > > > will change his destiny. He will become saintly in character. > > Dacoit > > > > Ratnagar was changed into Sage Valmiki by the current of Rishi > > > > Narada. Jagai and Madai, two rogues of the first order were > > changed > > > > by the current of Nityananda, disciple of Lord Gouranga. You > > will > > > > have to desire, to think, and act. You can change karma in any > > way > > > > you like. You can become a yogi or jnani by right desire, by > > right > > > > thinking and by right action. You can attain the position of > > Indra > > > > or Brahma by good karma. Man is not a helpless being. He has > > free > > > > will of his own. > > > > > > > > Man has power to choose between the alternatives which fate > > brings > > > > before him. In choosing between them he may either follow his > > > > tendencies produced by his past actions or struggle against > > them. > > > > The will of man is ever free. The arguments which are advanced > > by > > > > determinists in saying that human will is determined are not > > sound > > > > and tenable; they fall to the ground. > > > > > > > > Dear friends! Man is the master of his destiny. Wake up now from > > the > > > > deep slumber of ignorance. Never become a fatalist. Think > > rightly, > > > > Act rightly. Lead a virtuous life. Never hurt the feelings of > > > > others. Mould your character. Purify your mind. Concentrate. > > Thou > > > > art nitya mukta purusa (ever free spirit). Tat Twam Asi - Thou > > art > > > > That. > > > > > > > > The samskaras (habit-patterns) of virtuous actions are imbedded > > in > > > > the citta. They are also indestructible. They are real, valuable > > > > assets for you. They will prevent you from doing wrong actions. > > They > > > > will push you on to the goal. Selfless works will prepare the > > ground > > > > of antahkarana (the psyche) for the reception of the seed of > > jnana. > > > > The path of karma yoga eventually leads to the attainment of > > > > infinite bliss of the self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > JAI MA > > > > > > > > > > ______________________ ______________________ Message: 3 Sun, 16 Apr 2006 17:12:40 -0000 "kasi_visvanath" Re: YOU HAVE FREEWILL Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" wrote: > > I find this article absurd. Amma too, says (paraphrased), "The > president may think that he can push a red button at any time to cause > the destruction of another nation with nuclear missiles, but does he > wonder where that impulse to push the button comes from?" God alone > is the doer. > > Nandu > Om Amrtesvaryai Namah! Namaskarams!! come on Nandu...you know very well that Amma also often tells us that we have freewill...that She says all our sufferings should NOT be blamed upon God, that we ourselves have created all those Karmas which have led to the present sufferings, and that we ourselves are the ones to blame...as well as we ourselves are the ones to bring ourselves up by our own bootstraps so to speak by taking up NEW and positive thoughts and actions...what is this if not "freewill"... Of course on the other hand, depending upon what the questioner had asked...and probably WHO the questioner IS, Amma will just as often make the statement like you said above...She appears to jump on whichever side of the fence of freewill versus destiny, is "appropriate" for the current questioner's state of mind...She never says the same thing all the time... so on one level Sri Swami Sivananda's teaching is totally true, and yet on another level, as you say, it is all hogwash...it depends upon your understanding of freewill and destiny. Perhaps it is more helpful for "beginners" to think that they have some input into the cosmic scheme of things by "freewill"... If you look at Jyotish, often you may be totally discouraged from the thoughts of freewill, because you will see that whatever you may have thought that you have done from freewill appears on the chart to have been destined to occur at that time...on the other hand, as my darling Easwari says, each sign and house, Not to mention planet, has MANY significations...and MANY different things COULD have occurred at that time which is under the "microscope" of inquiry...all off them appropriately labelled under the "destiny" label, as being signified by that planet in that house or sign...or that dasha period. perhaps the "freewill" might be found in the "choice" if there is one, of WHICH of the many significations that one might undertake to do...on the other hand, it is entirely possible that even that is "destined" to be chosen... it is SUCh a thorny question, which astrologers (and our list members) still fight over, and are unable to reach to real solution to. so perhaps we should not just sum it up which such a dismissive attitude...perhaps Sri Swami Sivanandaji was writing to just such a person as NEEDED that freewill lecture...whereas it may be totally unsuitable for such a vedantist as yourself? how's that for my solution to the "problem" In Amma's Divine Love, and in Her Service, as ever, your own visvanathan ______________________ ______________________ Message: 4 Sun, 16 Apr 2006 11:34:21 -0700 Prasadini Re: Suffering, pain and guilt Namah Shivaya Supriti, Like you, I grew up in an abusive situation and pretty much hated myself for a very long time. Every once in a while I would become aware of a "goodness" within me. I just knew that somewhere inside of me there was something so good. I know now that "goodness" was God, it was who I really was, despite who I was outside. We all get negative messages growing up, and throughout life. As kids, we take it on and believe it. If we all really knew who we really are we would love ourselves and everyone and everything. It doesn't matter who or what we are on the outside. Inside we are all that is. Inside we are just total love. Love to all my sisters and brothers, Prasadini Omenka Supriti Nnadi wrote: > I am a former catholic. My birth family placed me in a catholic > orphanage at birth and I was baptized in that faith. I am a survivor > of sexual abuse in the orphanage and suffered greatly for many years. > I saw hypocrisy and a huge lack of love toward me as years went by in > Catholic schools. > > I believed in God all that time, I just knew for me that organized > religion was not my path. I lived in fear and guilt and confessed to > so many "sins" and when God didn't speak to me on my Confirmation Day > I turned away from anything to do with religion. > > Until I met Amma I had not been able to experience love from anyone, > including myself. Even now I am struggling to love all of myself, so > many wounds and scars are healing slowly with the love of Amma. > > I am truly blessed to be able to receive and give love today. If my > heart had not been opened by Amma's love I would be dead some time ago > instead of alive and able to give and receive love. I see the > organized churches differently now. > > I realize that all faiths and organizations have people who are > hypocritical, insincere, ignorant and mean. And at the same time, > each person's journey is not mine to judge. I have met people of all > faiths who are sincere in their love for their "God/Goddess", people > who walk in love are everywhere and it is not my job to figure out > what works for them. I have learned that my pain, suffering and guilt > were from keeping secrets from myself and others. > > Today I am learning to love, to change all the bad self-talk, the > lack of love and compassion, the fear and shame I have carried for so > long is leaving me now. > > I am happy when someone can see and give love for themselves, > whatever form that takes. I am happy today because I have love in my > heart. My prayer is that more hearts will open like the lotus blossom > and spread love like a beautiful fragrance to all my brothers and sisters. > > Happy Easter! > > > Om Namashivaya - In Amma's service, > > Supriti Omenka Nnadi > > > > > > Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha! > > > ------ > > > * Visit your group "Ammachi > " on the web. > > * > Ammachi > > > * Terms of > Service . > > > ------ > ______________________ ______________________ Message: 5 Sun, 16 Apr 2006 19:10:08 -0000 "lsikand" bnb For All Ye India Enthusiasts Bread & Breakfast In New Delhi 2 BR Apartment (never lived in before) All modern amenities, extra clean Bath Tub Breakfast: Choose between fresh homemade parathas with yogurt or continental Retired couple are the caretakers and owners Car with chauffeur (Optional) Only $25/day per person Call 828.275.4037 to check availability ______________________ ______________________ Message: 6 Sun, 16 Apr 2006 22:39:13 -0000 "vallathnkumar" Re: YOU HAVE FREEWILL Yes, indeed, Kashi, Amma does say both things -- sometimes on the side of free will, and sometimes on the side of fate. The fact is that every time I make a "decision" to do something, I don't know where that decision comes from. That is why I said free will was absurd. Same with faith. An Amma devotee told me that having faith in Amma or not was my choice. I asked him, then, to stop believing in Amma for 24 hours, and after that go back to having faith -- after all, it is within everyone's control according to him, and it was only for a day. I certainly could not do that. It is like life is a roller coaster, and I just think that I am driving it, whereas I am only riding it. I like to do this -- when it is something that I do that makes me feel guilty, I say I have no free will. Otherwise I say the action is borne of my free will. Best of both worlds :-) Nandu Ammachi, "kasi_visvanath" wrote: > > Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" wrote: > > > > I find this article absurd. Amma too, says (paraphrased), "The > > president may think that he can push a red button at any time to > cause > > the destruction of another nation with nuclear missiles, but does > he > > wonder where that impulse to push the button comes from?" God > alone > > is the doer. > > > > Nandu > > > Om Amrtesvaryai Namah! > > Namaskarams!! > > come on Nandu...you know very well that Amma also often tells us > that we have freewill...that She says all our sufferings should NOT > be blamed upon God, that we ourselves have created all those Karmas > which have led to the present sufferings, and that we ourselves are > the ones to blame...as well as we ourselves are the ones to bring > ourselves up by our own bootstraps so to speak by taking up NEW and > positive thoughts and actions...what is this if not "freewill"... > > Of course on the other hand, depending upon what the questioner had > asked...and probably WHO the questioner IS, Amma will just as often > make the statement like you said above...She appears to jump on > whichever side of the fence of freewill versus destiny, > is "appropriate" for the current questioner's state of mind...She > never says the same thing all the time... > > so on one level Sri Swami Sivananda's teaching is totally true, and > yet on another level, as you say, it is all hogwash...it depends > upon your understanding of freewill and destiny. Perhaps it is more > helpful for "beginners" to think that they have some input into the > cosmic scheme of things by "freewill"... > > If you look at Jyotish, often you may be totally discouraged from > the thoughts of freewill, because you will see that whatever you may > have thought that you have done from freewill appears on the chart > to have been destined to occur at that time...on the other hand, as > my darling Easwari says, each sign and house, Not to mention planet, > has MANY significations...and MANY different things COULD have > occurred at that time which is under the "microscope" of > inquiry...all off them appropriately labelled under the "destiny" > label, as being signified by that planet in that house or sign...or > that dasha period. > > perhaps the "freewill" might be found in the "choice" if there is === message truncated === Om Namashivaya - In Amma's service, Supriti Omenka Nnadi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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