Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 but Amma says we ARE Divine/God, and are bad actions not really a product of ego? Amma says we are not the ego. maybe then the only true freewill we have is really that of our perspective? Ammachi, "Adriane" <a1driane wrote: > > Yes, once the Guru calls us, it is truly the head of the lamb in the > lion's mouth. There is no choice there. > > And as far as our bad actions being of our own free will-since we > are not totally God realized, those actions cannot be attributed to > God. Amma talks of this quite a bit. In our hearts we know that bad > actions are not truly from God. What the mind cannot comprehend, the > heart can. > > > Ammachi, "mailguru2004" <mailguru2004@> > wrote: > > > > Aum Namah Shivaya Aum Gum Ganapatayai Namaha Aum Amriteshwaryai > Namaha > > > > We having faith in Amma is Amma's will, as we see in Amma's > Bhajans we > > find verses in Bhajan "Kaduttha Shokamaam" like > > "Anugrahikku ennai nee sanaadhi nistanaaguvaan" which means bless > me > > so that i'll always remember you and pray to you.So our attachement > > with the God/Guru is what God/Guru decides. > > > > Amma's son > > Gururaj > > > > Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn@> wrote: > > > > > > Yes, indeed, Kashi, Amma does say both things -- sometimes on > the side > > > of free will, and sometimes on the side of fate. The fact is > that > > > every time I make a "decision" to do something, I don't know > where > > > that decision comes from. That is why I said free will was > absurd. > > > Same with faith. An Amma devotee told me that having faith in > Amma or > > > not was my choice. I asked him, then, to stop believing in Amma > for > > > 24 hours, and after that go back to having faith -- after all, > it is > > > within everyone's control according to him, and it was only for > a day. > > > I certainly could not do that. It is like life is a roller > coaster, > > > and I just think that I am driving it, whereas I am only riding > it. > > > > > > I like to do this -- when it is something that I do that makes > me feel > > > guilty, I say I have no free will. Otherwise I say the action is > > > borne of my free will. Best of both worlds :-) > > > > > > Nandu > > > > > > > > > Ammachi, "kasi_visvanath" > <kasi_visvanath@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I find this article absurd. Amma too, says > (paraphrased), "The > > > > > president may think that he can push a red button at any > time to > > > > cause > > > > > the destruction of another nation with nuclear missiles, but > does > > > > he > > > > > wonder where that impulse to push the button comes from?" > God > > > > alone > > > > > is the doer. > > > > > > > > > > Nandu > > > > > > > > > Om Amrtesvaryai Namah! > > > > > > > > Namaskarams!! > > > > > > > > come on Nandu...you know very well that Amma also often tells > us > > > > that we have freewill...that She says all our sufferings > should NOT > > > > be blamed upon God, that we ourselves have created all those > Karmas > > > > which have led to the present sufferings, and that we > ourselves are > > > > the ones to blame...as well as we ourselves are the ones to > bring > > > > ourselves up by our own bootstraps so to speak by taking up > NEW and > > > > positive thoughts and actions...what is this if > not "freewill"... > > > > > > > > Of course on the other hand, depending upon what the > questioner had > > > > asked...and probably WHO the questioner IS, Amma will just as > often > > > > make the statement like you said above...She appears to jump > on > > > > whichever side of the fence of freewill versus destiny, > > > > is "appropriate" for the current questioner's state of > mind...She > > > > never says the same thing all the time... > > > > > > > > so on one level Sri Swami Sivananda's teaching is totally > true, and > > > > yet on another level, as you say, it is all hogwash...it > depends > > > > upon your understanding of freewill and destiny. Perhaps it is > more > > > > helpful for "beginners" to think that they have some input > into the > > > > cosmic scheme of things by "freewill"... > > > > > > > > If you look at Jyotish, often you may be totally discouraged > from > > > > the thoughts of freewill, because you will see that whatever > you may > > > > have thought that you have done from freewill appears on the > chart > > > > to have been destined to occur at that time...on the other > hand, as > > > > my darling Easwari says, each sign and house, Not to mention > planet, > > > > has MANY significations...and MANY different things COULD have > > > > occurred at that time which is under the "microscope" of > > > > inquiry...all off them appropriately labelled under > the "destiny" > > > > label, as being signified by that planet in that house or > sign...or > > > > that dasha period. > > > > > > > > perhaps the "freewill" might be found in the "choice" if there > is > > > > one, of WHICH of the many significations that one might > undertake to > > > > do...on the other hand, it is entirely possible that even that > > > > is "destined" to be chosen... > > > > > > > > it is SUCh a thorny question, which astrologers (and our list > > > > members) still fight over, and are unable to reach to real > solution > > > > to. > > > > > > > > so perhaps we should not just sum it up which such a > dismissive > > > > attitude...perhaps Sri Swami Sivanandaji was writing to just > such a > > > > person as NEEDED that freewill lecture...whereas it may be > totally > > > > unsuitable for such a vedantist as yourself? how's that for my > > > > solution to the "problem" > > > > > > > > In Amma's Divine Love, > > > > and in Her Service, > > > > as ever, > > > > your own > > > > visvanathan > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Well said, ecjensen. Nandu Ammachi, "ecjensen_us" <ecjensen_us wrote: > > but Amma says we ARE Divine/God, and are bad actions not really a > product of ego? Amma says we are not the ego. maybe then the only > true freewill we have is really that of our perspective? > > Ammachi, "Adriane" <a1driane@> wrote: > > > > Yes, once the Guru calls us, it is truly the head of the lamb in > the > > lion's mouth. There is no choice there. > > > > And as far as our bad actions being of our own free will-since we > > are not totally God realized, those actions cannot be attributed > to > > God. Amma talks of this quite a bit. In our hearts we know that > bad > > actions are not truly from God. What the mind cannot comprehend, > the > > heart can. > > > > > > Ammachi, "mailguru2004" <mailguru2004@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Aum Namah Shivaya Aum Gum Ganapatayai Namaha Aum Amriteshwaryai > > Namaha > > > > > > We having faith in Amma is Amma's will, as we see in Amma's > > Bhajans we > > > find verses in Bhajan "Kaduttha Shokamaam" like > > > "Anugrahikku ennai nee sanaadhi nistanaaguvaan" which means > bless > > me > > > so that i'll always remember you and pray to you.So our > attachement > > > with the God/Guru is what God/Guru decides. > > > > > > Amma's son > > > Gururaj > > > > > > Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes, indeed, Kashi, Amma does say both things -- sometimes on > > the side > > > > of free will, and sometimes on the side of fate. The fact is > > that > > > > every time I make a "decision" to do something, I don't know > > where > > > > that decision comes from. That is why I said free will was > > absurd. > > > > Same with faith. An Amma devotee told me that having faith in > > Amma or > > > > not was my choice. I asked him, then, to stop believing in > Amma > > for > > > > 24 hours, and after that go back to having faith -- after all, > > it is > > > > within everyone's control according to him, and it was only > for > > a day. > > > > I certainly could not do that. It is like life is a roller > > coaster, > > > > and I just think that I am driving it, whereas I am only > riding > > it. > > > > > > > > I like to do this -- when it is something that I do that makes > > me feel > > > > guilty, I say I have no free will. Otherwise I say the action > is > > > > borne of my free will. Best of both worlds :-) > > > > > > > > Nandu > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi, "kasi_visvanath" > > <kasi_visvanath@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi, "vallathnkumar" <vallathn@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I find this article absurd. Amma too, says > > (paraphrased), "The > > > > > > president may think that he can push a red button at any > > time to > > > > > cause > > > > > > the destruction of another nation with nuclear missiles, > but > > does > > > > > he > > > > > > wonder where that impulse to push the button comes from?" > > God > > > > > alone > > > > > > is the doer. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nandu > > > > > > > > > > > Om Amrtesvaryai Namah! > > > > > > > > > > Namaskarams!! > > > > > > > > > > come on Nandu...you know very well that Amma also often > tells > > us > > > > > that we have freewill...that She says all our sufferings > > should NOT > > > > > be blamed upon God, that we ourselves have created all those > > Karmas > > > > > which have led to the present sufferings, and that we > > ourselves are > > > > > the ones to blame...as well as we ourselves are the ones to > > bring > > > > > ourselves up by our own bootstraps so to speak by taking up > > NEW and > > > > > positive thoughts and actions...what is this if > > not "freewill"... > > > > > > > > > > Of course on the other hand, depending upon what the > > questioner had > > > > > asked...and probably WHO the questioner IS, Amma will just > as > > often > > > > > make the statement like you said above...She appears to jump > > on > > > > > whichever side of the fence of freewill versus destiny, > > > > > is "appropriate" for the current questioner's state of > > mind...She > > > > > never says the same thing all the time... > > > > > > > > > > so on one level Sri Swami Sivananda's teaching is totally > > true, and > > > > > yet on another level, as you say, it is all hogwash...it > > depends > > > > > upon your understanding of freewill and destiny. Perhaps it > is > > more > > > > > helpful for "beginners" to think that they have some input > > into the > > > > > cosmic scheme of things by "freewill"... > > > > > > > > > > If you look at Jyotish, often you may be totally discouraged > > from > > > > > the thoughts of freewill, because you will see that whatever > > you may > > > > > have thought that you have done from freewill appears on the > > chart > > > > > to have been destined to occur at that time...on the other > > hand, as > > > > > my darling Easwari says, each sign and house, Not to mention > > planet, > > > > > has MANY significations...and MANY different things COULD > have > > > > > occurred at that time which is under the "microscope" of > > > > > inquiry...all off them appropriately labelled under > > the "destiny" > > > > > label, as being signified by that planet in that house or > > sign...or > > > > > that dasha period. > > > > > > > > > > perhaps the "freewill" might be found in the "choice" if > there > > is > > > > > one, of WHICH of the many significations that one might > > undertake to > > > > > do...on the other hand, it is entirely possible that even > that > > > > > is "destined" to be chosen... > > > > > > > > > > it is SUCh a thorny question, which astrologers (and our > list > > > > > members) still fight over, and are unable to reach to real > > solution > > > > > to. > > > > > > > > > > so perhaps we should not just sum it up which such a > > dismissive > > > > > attitude...perhaps Sri Swami Sivanandaji was writing to just > > such a > > > > > person as NEEDED that freewill lecture...whereas it may be > > totally > > > > > unsuitable for such a vedantist as yourself? how's that for > my > > > > > solution to the "problem" > > > > > > > > > > In Amma's Divine Love, > > > > > and in Her Service, > > > > > as ever, > > > > > your own > > > > > visvanathan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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