Satsang to Spanish Group - Prof Anil Kumar

[Guest guest]

The Sunday Talk Given by Anil Kumar

 

"SATSANG to the SPANISH GROUP"

 

July 6th, 2004

 

 

OM…OM…OM…

 

Sai Ram

 

With Pranams at the Lotus Feet of Bhagavan,

 

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

 

 

Questions and Answers

 

Thank you very much for your kind invitation. I am so glad to be here

in the midst of the Spanish group. I make a request that you come

forward with questions, any question. One part of the talk will be

questions and answers, and the second part, any topic of your choice.

 

The answers that I will be giving are from Swami's literature, Baba's

literature. I will answer your questions from the material that I can

recall and recollect from Sai literature. In case I fail to give you

an answer, I will openly confess to you that I do not know. I will

seek some opportunity to get correct answers from Bhagavan.

 

I shall not make any personal commentary. I don't believe in it. When

we have got an Avatar in our midst, when there is so much of His

literature available to us, we don't have to imagine and interpret.

So these answers that I recall from Sai literature will be at your

disposal.

 

I appreciate if you come forward with questions without any

reservations. This, I think, is acceptable to you. Am I clear please?

Those of you who say `yes', raise your hands. Oh, that's good. Thank

you.

 

Now, we invite the questions, one from gents and one from ladies,

because women's liberation will never keep quiet if I give more

chance to men! Particularly, westerners are fully conscious of equal

rights. So, I respect your feelings and sentiments.

 

Now, the floor is open to you and that man there will choose who

should ask the question first, who should be next, and so on, to

avoid confusion. That's a good service…fine, fine.

 

 

 

an Incarnation comes by Will

 

Q. Before talking about any spiritual matters, I would like to hear

your explanation of Swami's disease, Swami's illness. Is it possible

that He is accepting some kind of karma?

 

Ah, OK. This question is put to me by many groups. In the beginning,

it kept me in an embarrassing, inconvenient position because I was

not sure of my own ideas. Over a period of time, I became convinced

of those points, which I am sharing with different groups to the best

of my ability. It's now open to you to say `yes' or `no'. You can

agree or disagree; it doesn't matter.

 

Now, these are my points on this subject. Usually this question is

asked at the end from other groups. Perhaps the Spanish group wants

to go in the reverse order (Laughter). Whether in the reverse order

or opposite direction, it does not matter. I welcome the question.

 

The first point is that we are all born here because of the

consequences of our actions in the previous life. So this body is the

result of karma. The temperament, actions, and thoughts are all are

based on karma. One person is peaceful from his childhood; another is

full of agitation from his childhood. One is religious from the

beginning, while another is irreligious from the beginning. This

difference in temperament and behaviour is the result of past karmas.

In one sentence, our present life represents the effect of past

karma.

 

Point two: (Since I am a teacher, I am telling you `point one, two,

and three' like that (Laughter). In terms of computers, it is

called `bullets'.) God incarnates not because of karma. Jesus was not

born because of His karma. Baba is not born because of His karma.

 

Incarnations appear by their own will. They have nothing to do with

karma. They are from the whole of the universe, appearing in front of

us in human form to fulfill their mission and then go back to the

universe.

 

On the other hand, you and I pass through karmic effects, suffering

good results from good actions, and bad results from bad actions. We

may repeat the cycle indefinitely. So we are caught in the cycle

birth and death: "I was like you when I was young, you know. Good,

good."

 

God is never caught in this, because His is neither birth nor death.

He appears by His will and disappears by His will. To put it in

simple Sanskrit words, ours is `karma janma'. This means our birth or

janma is due to karma or our previous actions; whereas an Incarnation

is `leela janma.' Leela is His will, while janma is birth.

 

 

 

Incarnation is a Role-Model

 

Point three: God incarnates and behaves like any human being,

enjoying and suffering equally like anybody, passing through

experiences like any one of us; dressing, dining and conversing like

any one of us as He lives amidst us. To establish rapport with us, He

behaves like a human being.

 

If He comes as a Superman, nobody will go near Him. If He were to

appear with five heads, ten hands and fifteen legs, everyone would

run away! It is out of His kindness that He takes on the human form,

in order to be near and dear to mankind, appearing to suffer pain and

pleasure like any one of us. This is done so that the Incarnation

looks exactly like a replica of the human being.

 

Point four: God's Incarnation has a purpose behind it. The purpose is

universal; the purpose is cosmic; the purpose is global. That purpose

is for the welfare of mankind, for the benefit of mankind, for the

upliftment of the human race and for the advancement of human

society. So, the agenda of the Incarnation is universal.

 

Every instance in His life has a message behind it. This Incarnation,

in His boyhood, has a teaching for humanity. This Incarnation, as a

son, as a citizen, as a teacher -- in every phase of life,

demonstrates what idealism is, so that we can be ideal. In other

words, I can put it in one sentence, in this way: An Incarnation is a

role-model for all of us, in every aspect of life.

 

 

 

the Suffering of the Avatar has a Message

 

Point five: He teaches us how to be blissful in times of pleasure and

happiness; how not to be egoistic. Even in moments of ecstasy, He

teaches us how to be humble, not proud.

 

All of us, in a moment of happiness, feel that we are on top of the

world. At that time, we don't seem to care about anybody. `I have

some money in my pocket. Therefore, after all…' That's my feeling.

Or, `I'm highly educated. After all, what are you in front of me? I

am highly educated -- so many degrees. After all, what are you?'

 

Therefore, fortune makes us proud and egoistic; pleasure makes us

forget people. But the Avatar teaches us lessons of Divinity --

respect and composure, balance in times of fortune and pleasure.

 

While suffering, the Avatar also has a message for us. He pretends to

suffer, but He has no suffering in reality. He also tells us how to

suffer happily. There is happiness even in suffering!

 

So, Swami may look as if He is suffering. Swami may look as if He is

pain. Swami may give an appearance that something is wrong with Him.

That is a beautiful drama enacted in order to pass on His teachings

to the world.

 

The first lesson that we can draw from watching Swami at the present

time is to go beyond the body. Normally anyone who feels that he is

the body will be experiencing his pain and sharing that pain with

everybody else, in such a way that we will feel like running away

from that fellow.

 

"Hi, how are you?"

 

"One week ago, I had a headache; three days ago, a fever; two days

ago, a stomach-upset; plus today, my head is reeling."

 

This is nothing but the distribution of agony or suffering! So, there

are some people who, when they have a headache, see to it that the

whole family suffers with their headache (Laughter). Or, if one has a

fever, one just doesn't want others to enjoy the pie, doughnut or

pizza.

 

`Since I am having a fever, let all of you fast!'

 

So, this is our temperament: In fortune, we are egoistic; in misery,

we make everybody miserable. However, Bhagavan, who is beyond the

body, always smiles. With the fracture here in the pelvic region,

many, many people say that it causes excruciating, unbearable pain.

But He smiles!

 

Just smile next time you have some headache…please show me. Can you

smile with a fracture? Impossible! Just fast for three days. On the

fourth day, look into the mirror. Please check how handsome you are.

You'll immediately come to know that there cannot be a person uglier

than you. The pain is so much and so unbearable that it starts

expressing itself on our face, in our actions, influencing our inter-

relationships. We would like to go on a long leave.

 

But here is Baba, in such terrible pain as we see and feel it must

be; but it doesn't look as though He is suffering. He smiles and

smiles. When we look at His face, we feel as if nothing is wrong with

Him. This is only possible for a person who is beyond the body. Any

amount of teaching that `you are not the body' is not going to get

into our head.

 

 

 

Going beyond

Body Consciousness

 

There are 35 volumes of Sathya Sai Speaks, 15 Vahinis, and 15 volumes

of Summer Showers discourses. Over the past 60 years, He has been

telling us that we are not the body. But it is not getting into our

head as it is very comfortable to feel, `I am the body.' As I can

dress well, eat well, and enjoy everything, it is so difficult to go

beyond the body. Now, Baba demonstrates how to go beyond the body by

suffering all by Himself.

 

We hear of Jesus Christ, who prayed for everybody while on the Cross,

during the last moments of His life, saying, "Oh Father, forgive

them! They know not what they do." Is it possible for a dying man to

pray like that? How was it possible for this man on the Cross to pray

for all those who were responsible for His crucifixion?

 

Is it possible for anyone to pray for those who put one to suffering?

Is it possible to leave the body with a smile? It is normally

impossible. Therefore, Baba demonstrates to us how to be happy while

suffering; how to be happy while in pain; how not to share this

misery with everybody; in short, how to make everybody happy, even

while suffering.

 

As the candle burns, shedding light to everybody around, it gets

slowly exhausted -- slowly; but the light spreads all over. That is

His message. He doesn't lie in bed. Normally, if there is any ailment

or suffering, He should take rest. But there is no treatment and no

medicines. He gives His darshan as usual, plus interviews as usual.

He responds to the prayers of devotees, being as normal as before;

Divine discourses, as scheduled; festivals and celebrations, just as

usual. Is that possible? Impossible! But Baba could do it because He

is Divine.

 

 

 

the True Spiritual Path is to Turn Inward

 

Miracles are happening more now than ever before. Earlier, people

were happy getting an interview, or getting padanamaskar, or giving

Him a letter. Today, devotees are happy just to see Him! People

receive messages within; devotees see and receive training within. We

are learning how to see Him within. This is a step higher than the

earlier step.

 

Ultimately, at one time or another, we have to turn inward. That is

the true spiritual path. Earlier we were thinking more of ourselves --

how best we were going to make use of Swami's darshan; how much more

we could earn after the interview; what promotion we would get after

an interview. So we have been self-centered. Until now, until this

moment, our concern has been about ourselves and our families, and

that's all. However, today all of us are thinking about Swami.

Everywhere people are asking me, "How is Swami?"

 

Earlier they did not ask that. "Do you know my experiences? Do you

know how devoted I am? Do you know that? Do you know that I have been

visiting this place for the last 15 years? Do you know that?"

 

We are spiritually arrogant; we are religiously proud. We have

forgotten the purpose of religion. We have missed the objective of

religion. We are proceeding in a different direction altogether. This

is the only way left for our God – the only way. By suffering, yet

being beyond that, He wants to raise our consciousness, to help us to

grow beyond the body idea.

 

So sir, I take it in this way: The so-called ailment or suffering of

Baba is just a demonstration and a teaching to people, and to the

devotees in particular.

 

 

Swami's Infinite Love

 

Q. Why is Swami healing so many people, but our own love cannot heal

His ailments? It makes people suffer.

 

Yes, this is the difference between our love and Swami's Love. Our

love is narrow and limited, whereas Swami's Love is infinite. Our

love is narrow and selfish, while His Love is universal. Our love

is conditional, while His Love is unconditional. Our love is limited

to time and space, whereas His Love is beyond that. Our love has got

some expectations; but there is nothing like that in Divine Love.

 

While His is a 1000-candle bulb, my love is a zero-candle bulb. Truly

speaking, if my love also were to get expanded, extending as much as

His Divine Love, miracles would certainly happen. Take for example,

healing, prayer, or certain spiritual rituals. The prayers of some

are answered, while some prayers are 50% answered; other prayers have

not yet reached Him. It all depends on the voltage -- 40-watt

voltage, 100-watt voltage.

 

Therefore, His Love is 100% total, utterly selfless, 100% pure, and

can cure anybody. Since my love is not of that level, it's not able

to cure anybody because I have not gone beyond the body level of

understanding. I have not gone beyond the mind. I have not gone past

the limitations of the human body. I have no idea what universal Love

is. I have no experience of Divine Love. Therefore, we need to expand

our love. That's why Bhagavan says, "Expansion of Love is life;

contraction of Love is death." Am I clear?

 

Now, when Bhagavan cures Himself with His infinite Love, we'll all

begin to say things like this: "With all Your God power, You could

cure Yourself, becoming free from suffering, while we fellows have to

suffer like this. It is very unfair." If He doesn't cure Himself,

what do people say? "If You cannot cure Yourself, how can You cure

me?" Either way, we are not going to leave Him.

 

But one point has to be understood. Only a few days ago, I saw one

man here that I know well. If you are so particular, I will show

that man to you. He hails from Anantapur. His son settled in Dallas,

Texas, USA. I saw his sons here too. This gentleman was sitting there

on the verandah for couple of days. I know him very well. Bhagavan

has visited his residence also. He is an old devotee, not by virtue

of age, but by virtue of discipleship.

 

I was just observing all this. Swami was talking to his sons there,

and to the father here. People were wondering, `Why daily?' People

forget that everyone has a problem. They think, `Swami should talk

to me! Why should He talk to him?'

 

Soon I forgot my problem as that man's problem has become my problem

now. Slowly, as days passed by, I started saying `Sai Ram' to that

gentleman in order to establish some rapport. (Laughter) It would be

indecent to ask," Why is He talking to you?" because he may say, `It

is not your problem. It is my problem." So, I did not dare to ask him

like that. Instead I established `Sai Ram' contact first (Laughter),

brought him to my level, and said, "You are fortunate that Bhagavan

is talking to you." I said so he would understand that Anil Kumar is

not jealous of him. (Laughter)

 

The next day, he himself called me and said that he was suffering

from cancer. The cancer had reached an advanced stage. So his sons

came here. Bhagavan was talking to them about this matter. He was

talking to this elderly gentleman, this elderly man, their father,

about this problem. They were getting some interviews also.

 

Finally one day, that man told me what had happened in the interview

room. Then I was feeling happy that I could keep him in a good humour

by sharing with him his personal experiences. What he said was that

Swami had asked him to remove his shirt and everything. Then He had

applied vibhuthi all over his body and said, "Go! Allow yourself to

be tested anywhere all over the world. I tell you, the cancer is

cancelled." This happened not even a week ago.

 

It is a very strange thing: Though being so powerful and capable of

doing everything, He does not do anything for Himself; and we,

though we look as though we can do something, we cannot do anything.

Just the opposite to us is God, who can do everything, though He

appears to do nothing. Though we are nothing at the base, we appear

to be something. This is the paradox of life.

 

So, Bhagavan does not use the power for Himself because then we would

say, "Oh God, You are selfish" if He cures Himself. So there is

definitely a purpose behind it. And I also believe that the full

truth may not be known totally today. We may not understand it today,

the underlying philosophy and secrets of the Avatar. We may not find

a 100% satisfactory answer as to why things are happening the way

they are today,

 

Slowly, slowly things will unravel. They will become clear very soon.

The answer I have given may not be 100% acceptable to you. It may not

be 100% logical and rational. The answer that I gave you is the way I

look at it, with my own personal perception of the events today. Like

this, each one of you may have your own comprehension. That's it,

yes.

 

 

We are born Liberated

 

Q. If we ask Swami wholeheartedly, can He liberate us from all of our

bad past karma?

 

To answer this, I must bring your attention to some important points.

Please allow me to go into the depth of philosophy. I think you will

appreciate it. Let me not give you some superficial answer. Let us go

in-depth.

 

First point: You are not to be liberated; you are liberated.

Liberation is not in the future. Liberation is not a hope. Liberation

is not a promise. Liberation is not an article, just to be given like

that. Liberation cannot happen by the command or by the word. It is

not to be commanded. So, the first point I want to draw to your

attention is: We are not to be liberated because we are already

liberated. We are born liberated.

 

But unfortunately, here in this context, let me share one example

that Baba gives repeatedly. A young man walks on two legs. He gets

married, and then he starts walking with four legs (e.g. his legs and

his wife's). He will have a child, and then start walking with six

legs. With the addition of more children, he becomes a centipede or a

millipede. Thus, worries and anxieties are added on more and more.

 

As a child, we are totally liberated. But with the passage of time,

with more and more attachments, professional obligations, social

responsibilities, family burdens, children, status and financial

responsibilities, all these things make us bonded.

 

So bondage is a thing that we have made for ourselves. I was born

liberated; but I got into the trap of bondage on my own. Bondage has

no legs to walk into my life; bondage has no hands to hug me. Bondage

came in by my invitation.

 

So, since I got into bondage, I need only come out of it. Having been

born liberated, having led the life of liberation, over a period of

time I got into bondage. Now I feel breathless and suffocated. So I

say, "I want to be liberated. Oh God, help me!"

 

He will be laughing, "You have put yourself into the cage of bondage.

Now you alone can come out of it." For example, if I go into the

kitchen, then I only can come out of the kitchen. Similarly, having

gone into the trap of bondage, I should get out of it.

 

 

 

the Means to attain Liberation

 

For the process of `getting out', prayer will help us and surrender

will help us. Devotion will help us come out of bondage without much

suffering and without much pain. Go back to liberation, to the

situation in which you were born, a state in which you led your life

for so long.

 

So my friends, liberation there, bondage here, back to liberation --

prayer will help us; devotion will help us; spiritual knowledge

will help us to know the drama of life: "Oh God, You created me free.

You created me totally liberated. I got into bondage. You should help

me get out. What is the way?" The only way is to know, by the process

of Self-enquiry, our true identity or true nature.

 

We have to ask ourselves repeatedly this question: "Who am I?" I

should come to the conclusion logically, scientifically, by

experience, that I am not the body. Later, by putting the same

question "Who am I?" I should come to know by rational, logical

thinking, and by experiencing, that I am not the mind. So finally, I

come to the conclusion that I am not the body; I am not the mind; I

am pure spirit, Atma or the soul, which is always in a state of

liberation. Then realisation comes.

 

Suppose I have a pen in my pocket. I go on searching for my

pen. "Where is the pen? Where is the pen?"

 

A dashing young man will come and say, "Mr. Anil Kumar, you seem to

be a fool. You are searching for the pen. You are struggling hard to

recover it. It's already there in your pocket."

 

"Oh, I see!"

 

"Have I got the pen now? Has it come from the sky? Has any angel put

it into my pocket?" No. It was already there. Only I forgot it and

then he reminded me.

 

So, the one who reminds us of our true Self is the preceptor or guru.

When you are reminded by the guru, you will no longer feel that you

are the body or that you are the mind. You will now feel that you are

the Self. This is called `realisation'. So the guru reminds you to

come to the path of enquiry, which is the sadhana, and then

experience the reality, which is `realisation'.

 

Here is a simple example: There is an earthen pot with a narrow neck.

When there are lots of monkeys around, here is what we do to catch

them: We keep some peanuts in the pot. The monkey will put his hand

into the pot. He will catch all the peanuts and hold the peanuts in a

tight grip. When he wants to take away his hand, it won't come out

because the pot has a narrow neck. The monkey thinks that someone is

pulling his hand, that someone is holding his hand. So he starts

jumping.

 

So, what is it that monkey should do now? Who is holding his hand?

The monkey should let loose its fingers and drop the peanuts. Peanuts

are the desires. Grip is the attachment. Pot is the life. So, once

the monkey drops the peanuts, it can ease its hand out freely.

Similarly, once we drop this idea, this false identification with the

body, we can simply 'get out'.

 

So liberation -- you are the liberation; liberation is not separate

from you. Liberation is not an achievement. Liberation is not an

accomplishment. Liberation is your birth-right, a natural thing, an

available thing. But because of body attachment, we feel that we are

in bondage. Bondage is artificial; liberation is natural. Bondage is

human creation; liberation is a Divine gift. Liberation is pure;

bondage is banishment or punishment. Liberation is spiritual, while

bondage is universal. Am I clear? A short question with a long

answer!

 

We have just five minutes more. I know the foreign canteen is anxious

to receive you. I think tonight is not a pizza day. I know that

mosquitoes also find a safe landing on your body. People say that in

Los Angeles, a flight lands and takes off every three minutes. Los

Angeles airport is nothing! Our body is the best airport for every

flight of the mosquito, who comes every second! (Laughter)

 

I thank you very much for your kind invitation, and my special

congratulations and appreciation to today's translator. (Laughter) He

is a handsome young man, who excels me in his speed and spirit,

translating whatever I say. Perhaps he is one among the very few whom

I have met who is a perfect translator. I say this because I find

that there are people who simply translate to do their job, to

deliver the goods, so to speak. What about the spirit behind it, the

force behind it? This young man could do that. Let's give him a big

hand.(Applause) Sai Ram. Thank you.

 

 

 

OM…OM…OM…

 

 

 

Asato Maa Sad Gamaya

 

Tamaso Maa Jyotir Gamaya

 

Mrtyormaa Amrtam Gamaya

 

 

 

Om Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu

 

Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu

 

Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu

 

 

 

Om Shanti Shanti Shanti