Shiva Lingam

indulekhadasi · July 30, 2008

Rudra lives in a separate place within this material world. Lord Rudra has the work of dealing with the mode of ignorance and the task of destruction. He too must die one day. Lord Sadashiva is different, He has no contact with the modes of material nature.

bhaktajan · July 30, 2008

Originally Posted by indulekhadasi:

Lord Shiva is the greatest devotee: vaishnavanam yatha sambuh.

Do you disagree with what I am saying?

For Vaishnavas, Lord Shiva is NOT a demigod, He is the Supreme Vaishnava.

...................................................................

Yes yes yes! I know! I know! I know!

You know, We know!

But there is someone lurking who thinks we don't know!

Should one reveal their plans to non-wellwishers & nay-sayers?

Oops, to late. The beans have been spilt. Will those someones know to volunteer to clean up the mess they caused.

Hey RadheyRadhey108! Get to the kitchen with your best apron and cleans the pots now! Thank you.

RadhaMukunda · July 30, 2008

Sada Shiva, Narayana and Brahm are nirguna.

Mahesh, Vishnu and Brahmanaspati(brahma) are saguna forms of brahman.

bhaktajan · July 30, 2008

Sada Shiva, Narayana and Brahm are nirguna.
Mahesh, Vishnu and Brahmanaspati(brahma) are saguna forms of brahman.

'Lord Shiva is the greatest devotee: vaishnavanam yatha sambuh.

Do you disagree with what I am saying?

For Vaishnavas, Lord Shiva is NOT a demigod, He is the Supreme Vaishnava.'

But there is someone lurking who thinks we don't know!

Right RadhaMukunda?

bija · July 30, 2008

Nice pics Radhey Radhey 108 :ponder:

RadheyRadhey108 · July 31, 2008

I try to spare you un-pleasant truths so as to let live as blissfully innocents do, but you keep asking for medicine:
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SB 1.2.26:

Those who are serious about liberation are certainly nonenvious, and they respect all. Yet they reject the horrible and ghastly forms of the demigods and worship only the all-blissful forms of Lord Viñëu and His plenary portions.

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SB 11.2.6:

Those who worship the demigods receive reciprocation from the demigods in a way just corresponding to the offering. The demigods are attendants of karma, like a person’s shadow, but sädhus are actually merciful to the fallen.

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SB 3.2.37:

O gentle one, of all the physical elements, beginning from the sky down to the earth, all the inferior and superior qualities are due only to the final touch of the glance of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

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SB 3.28.22:

The blessed Lord Çiva becomes all the more blessed by bearing on his head the holy waters of the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comGanges</st1:place>, which has its source in the water that washed the Lord’s lotus feet. The Lord’s feet act like thunderbolts hurled to shatter the mountain of sin stored in the mind of the meditating devotee. One should therefore meditate on the lotus feet of the Lord for a long time.

<st1:place w:st="on">Ganges</st1:place>, which has its source in the water that washed the Lord’s lotus feet. The Lord’s feet act like thunderbolts hurled to shatter the mountain of sin stored in the mind of the meditating devotee. One should therefore meditate on the lotus feet of the Lord for a long time.

PURPORT

In this verse the position of Lord Çiva is specifically mentioned. The impersonalist suggests that the Absolute Truth has no form and that one can therefore equally imagine the form of Viñëu or Lord Çiva or the goddess Durgä or their son Gaëeça.

But actually the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the supreme master of everyone. In the Caitanya-caritämåta (Ädi 5.142) it is said, ekale éçvara kåñëa, ara saba bhåtya: the Supreme Lord is Kåñëa, and everyone else, including Lord Çiva and Lord Brahmä—not to mention other demigods—is a servant of Kåñëa.

The same principle is described here. Lord Çiva is important because he is holding on his head the holy Ganges water, which has its origin in the foot-wash of Lord Viñëu.

In the Hari-bhakti-viläsa, by Sanätana Gosvämé, it is said that anyone who puts the Supreme Lord and the demigods, including Lord Çiva and Lord Brahmä, on the same level, at once becomes a päñaëòé, or atheist. We should never consider that the Supreme Lord Viñëu and the demigods are on an equal footing.





Another significant point of this verse is that the mind of the conditioned soul, on account of its association with the material energy from time immemorial, contains heaps of dirt in the form of desires to lord it over material nature. This dirt is like a mountain, but a mountain can be shattered when hit by a thunderbolt.

Meditating on the lotus feet of the Lord acts like a thunderbolt on the mountain of dirt in the mind of the yogé. If a yogé wants to shatter the mountain of dirt in his mind, he should concentrate on the lotus feet of the Lord and not imagine something void or impersonal. Because the dirt has accumulated like a solid mountain, one must meditate on the lotus feet of the Lord for quite a long time.

For one who is accustomed to thinking of the lotus feet of the Lord constantly, however, it is a different matter. The devotees are so fixed on the lotus feet of the Lord that they do not think of anything else. Those who practice the yoga system must meditate on the lotus feet of the Lord for a long time after following the regulative principles and thereby controlling the senses.





It is specifically mentioned here, bhagavataç caraëäravindam: one has to think of the lotus feet of the Lord. The Mäyävädés imagine that one can think of the lotus feet of Lord Çiva or Lord Brahmä or the goddess Durgä to achieve liberation, but this is not so. Bhagavataù is specifically mentioned. Bhagavataù means “of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viñëu,” and no one else. Another significant phrase in this verse is çivaù çivo ’bhüt.

By his constitutional position, Lord Çiva is always great and auspicious, but since he has accepted on his head the Ganges water, which emanated from the lotus feet of the Lord, he has become even more auspicious and important. The stress is on the lotus feet of the Lord. A relationship with the lotus feet of the Lord can even enhance the importance of Lord Çiva, what to speak of other, ordinary living entities.

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SB 4.19.22 Purport:

. . . Vedic literature states that a person who puts Lord Näräyaëa on the level with Lord Çiva or Lord Brahmä immediately becomes a päkhaëòé. As stated in the Puräëas:

yas tu näräyaëaà devaà

brahma-rudrädi-daivataiù

samatvenaiva vékñeta

sa päñaëòé bhaved dhruvam

In Kali-yuga the päkhaëòés are very prominent. However, Lord Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu has tried to kill all these päkhaëòés by introducing His saìkértana movement. Those who take advantage of this saìkértana movement of the International Society for <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> Consciousness will be able to save themselves from the influence of these päkhaëòés.

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SB 4.19.23 Purport:

. . . In the Vaiñëava Tantra it is said:

yas tu näräyaëaà devaà

brahma-rudrädi-daivataiù

samatvenaiva vékñeta

sa päñaëòé bhaved dhruvam

Although it is forbidden, there are many päñaëòés who coin terms like daridra-näräyaëa and svämi-näräyaëa, although not even such demigods as Brahmä and Çiva can be equal to Näräyaëa.



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SB 4.30.24 Purport:

. . . One should therefore not think that Lord Viñëu is in the same category with Lord Brahmä and Çiva. The çästras forbid us to think in this way.

yas tu näräyaëaà devaà

brahma-rudrädi-daivataiù

samatvenaiva vékñeta

sa päñaëòé bhaved dhruvam

One who considers Lord Viñëu to be in the same category with devas like Lord Brahmä or Lord Çiva or who thinks Lord Brahmä and Çiva to be equal to Lord Viñëu is to be considered as päñaëòé (a faithless nonbeliever). Therefore in this verse Lord Viñëu is distinguished in the words namo viçuddha-sattväya. Although a living entity like us, Lord Brahmä is exalted due to his pious activities; therefore he is given the high post of Brahmä. Lord Çiva is not actually like a living entity, but he is not the Supreme Personality of Godhead. His position is somewhere between Viñëu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and Brahmä, the living entity. Lord Çiva is therefore explained in Brahma-saàhitä (5.45) in this way:

kñéraà yathä dadhi vikära-viçeña-yogät

saïjäyate na hi tataù påthag <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">asti</st1:place></st1:City> hetoù

yaù çambhutäm api tathä samupaiti käryäd

govindam ädi-puruñaà tam ahaà bhajämi

Lord Çiva is considered to be like yogurt (dadhi). Yogurt is nothing but transformed milk; nonetheless, yogurt cannot be accepted as milk. Similarly, Lord Çiva holds almost all the powers of Lord Viñëu, and he is also above the qualities of the living entity, but he is not exactly like Viñëu, just as yogurt, although transformed milk, is not exactly like milk.

The Supreme Personality of Godhead is also described herein as väsudeväya kåñëäya. Kåñëa is the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, and all Viñëu expansions are His plenary portions or portions of His plenary portions (known as sväàça and kalä).







SB 11.5.32

kåñëa-varëaà tviñäkåñëaà

säìgopäìgästra-pärñadam

yajïaiù saìkértana-präyair

yajanti hi su-medhasaù



SYNONYMS

kåñëa-varëam—repeating the syllables kåñ-ëa; tviñä—with a luster; akåñëam—not black (golden); sa-aìga—along with associates; upa-aìga—servitors; astra—weapons; pärñadam—confidential companions; yajïaiù—by sacrifice; saìkértana-präyaiù—consisting chiefly of congregational chanting; yajanti—they worship; hi—certainly; su-medhasaù—intelligent persons.

TRANSLATION

In the age of Kali, intelligent persons perform congregational chanting to worship the incarnation of Godhead who constantly sings the names of Kåñëa. Although His complexion is not blackish, He is Kåñëa Himself. He is accompanied by His associates, servants, weapons and confidential companions.

And, once again, where does it say, "Lord Shiva is a demigod"?

RadheyRadhey108 · July 31, 2008

Originally Posted by indulekhadasi:
Lord Shiva is the greatest devotee: vaishnavanam yatha sambuh.

Do you disagree with what I am saying?

For Vaishnavas, Lord Shiva is NOT a demigod, He is the Supreme Vaishnava.

...................................................................

Yes yes yes! I know! I know! I know!

You know, We know!

But there is someone lurking who thinks we don't know!

Should one reveal their plans to non-wellwishers & nay-sayers?

Oops, to late. The beans have been spilt. Will those someones know to volunteer to clean up the mess they caused.

Hey RadheyRadhey108! Get to the kitchen with your best apron and cleans the pots now! Thank you.

I know that Indulekha Dasi Ji knows. She's not the one saying, "Lord Shiva is a demigod... Shaivas are pimps... Shiva and Shakti are whores..."

indulekhadasi · July 31, 2008

Originally Posted by indulekhadasi:
Lord Shiva is the greatest devotee: vaishnavanam yatha sambuh.

Do you disagree with what I am saying?

For Vaishnavas, Lord Shiva is NOT a demigod, He is the Supreme Vaishnava.

...................................................................

Yes yes yes! I know! I know! I know!

You know, We know!

But there is someone lurking who thinks we don't know!

Should one reveal their plans to non-wellwishers & nay-sayers?

Oops, to late. The beans have been spilt. Will those someones know to volunteer to clean up the mess they caused.

Hey RadheyRadhey108! Get to the kitchen with your best apron and cleans the pots now! Thank you.

If you know then there is no need for argumentation or debate. I was just giving you a humble reminder of something you already know. If you feel offended then please graciously forgive me.

bhaktajan · July 31, 2008

1)--I am obliged to 'not take offense'.

If I am offended --You can remind me not to be a fool and be offended by the effects of 'good chasticements'.

2)--I don't consider any vivacious discussion here as ever being "a debate" nor as "sacrilegious"-- it is detective-work.

"Just The Facts Mame"

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