Swami explains - The Blitz Interview (September - 1976) with Late Karanjia - Part IV

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Swami explains - The Blitz Interview (September - 1976) with Late Karanjia - Part IV

Sun, 9 Jun 2002 09:47:11 +0530

Om Sri Sai Ram

Baba's Spiritual Socialism

Q: Baba seems to be prescribing a kind of spiritual socialism based on the

conversion of wealth into a trusteeship for the removal of poverty.

Baba: Yes, a trusteeship based on love, cooperation and brotherhood. What else

can one do? The change must evolve from the heart; it cannot be imposed from

outside. All materialist doctrines have failed to bring about any real

transformation. There is no equality anywhere. Only spiritual transformation

into a desireless mentality can put through the imperative revolution in human

consciousness from which alone the desired changes can accrue.

We need to transform society from false to real values. We have to convince

people that the ideal of a high standard of life is wrong. It must be replaced

with a high level of living and thinking on the basis of humility, morality,

compassion and detachment, as against the existing greed for competitive luxury

and conspicuous consumption. People have to be convinced that the only way to

rouse the latent divinity in them is to master desires and conquer greed for

pleasure and luxury instead of being a slave to these false materialistic

values.

Sai Path to Dharma (Righteousness)

Q: Then I take it that the various educational and social service organizations

run by Baba -- some 3,000 in all -- are designed to create the cadres necessary

for bringing about the desired socioeconomic change by means of love and

persuasion?

Baba: They are designed to put the new generation on the Sai path of truth,

righteousness, peace, love and nonviolence. Their motto -- work is worship and

duty is God -- seeks to bring in the new social order related to Sathya -- that

is, truth, and dharma -- namely, right action.

Q: India has been described as a rich country of poor people. We have the wealth

of the whole world locked up in the bosom of our good earth. And yet the people

remain economically poor and backward. Have you any solution to rehabilitate

our economy?

Socio-Economic Synthesis

Baba: Your analysis is correct. The solution to the problem you have posed lies

in hard work and increased production on a cooperative basis. To achieve this,

one has to rid people of the disease of individuality, greed and selfishness.

Every individual must be taught to think and work in the broader concept of

society and its needs. Once that is done, there will be less talk and more

work.

Here again, it is the spiritual path that can save this country and the world

from the wrongs of a materialistic order. What we need is a synthesis of the

spiritual and material aspects of life. That will provide man with the social

conscience and cooperative spirit imperative to the creation of national wealth

and prosperity through selfless, cooperative labor.

Q: Very good counsel, Swamiji - but the trouble is that all the wealth created

by labor appears to find its way into the pockets of a rich and powerful

minority. Have you a spiritual prescription for this inequality?

Desire must be equalized

Baba: There is no doubt that the distribution is not taking place properly. The

existing doctrines of equality, socialism, etc., have not succeeded in

achieving equality in distribution of wealth and property. The difficulty is

that you equalize, wealth, land and property by legalization, but can the law

bring about equality in the desires of the people? This requires the healing

touch of spiritualism.

To begin with, one has to cure desire and its evil consequences. We must

persuade the rich that desire and its fulfillment in materialistic wants is an

aspect of the monkey-mind which can only harm them and put them under bondage.

That alone will solve the problem of inequality and maldistribution.

The rich will give up their extravagant wants, the poor will get what they need

and a little more; and this process will bring about more equitable

distribution.

Q: To conclude this section, Swamiji, would you sum up the main causes of

India's social and economic backwardness?

Baba: From a purely material viewpoint, it is a question of supply and demand.

Because of the overpowering material values of our society, the demand is

growing larger and larger, while the supply remains the same or decreases. The

solution, obviously, is to increase the supply or decrease the demand. Then, of

course, there is the problem of growing population. This triangular issue of

economic imbalance needs to be spiritualized if an effective solution is to be

found.

Less Luggage: Better Journey

It is here that our insistence on a desireless life, in which human wants are

reduced to the minimum needs, comes to the rescue as the only possible way of

restoring the social and economic balance. Curb your desires, reduce your

wants, live in spiritual austerity, and the available material will be

sufficient for all humanity. More than that, the tensions of a competitive

socioeconomic system will be dissolved and peace of mind will be restored.

Life is like a journey in a vehicle between birth and death. The body is the

vehicle in which you are motoring to death. The less luggage you carry the

better. Why encumber yourself with worldly riches and material comforts, when

you may have to change your course or even meet with some dislocation or

accident and, in any case, at the end of the journey you will have to leave

behind all your possessions accept your Atma? Would it not be better to attend

to the immortal spirit rather than waste time, which is running out on gaining

wealth and securing comforts?

This is the logic of spiritualism with which I seek to change the attitude of people.

Why no Pumpkins or Cucumbers

Q: Baba has already clarified most of the issues raised by Dr. Narasimhiah and

other critics. Some, however, remain unanswered. Narasimhiah asks why you do

not materialize a pumpkin or a cucumber or a watch with a distinct mark to

prove that it is your creation and not a transfer of somebody else's

manufacture?

Baba: Pumpkins and cucumbers can be materialized as easily as rings or objects.

But these are perishable objects and the whole point of materialization, as I

have already explained, lies in their permanence. That is why rings or watches

become more serviceable as talismans or means of contact and communication,

between the Avatar and his devotees.

The point they are trying to make is that big objects like pumpkins cannot be

transferred while small ones like rings can be. But as I have repeatedly said,

I do not transfer things by a sleight-of-hand. I create them to be talismans.

Now coming to your question about a ring or watch with a distinct mark to prove

that it is My own creation, would you like Me to materialize something for you?

 

Miracle of OM Ring

Q: Yes, Swamiji, I certainly would.

Baba waved his hand in the air to produce a silver ring bearing the inscription

OM in the center with Sai Ram marks on the sides and held My right hand to

gently put it on the third finger. It was an exact fit and it was precisely

what I wanted from Baba.

Q: Thank you, Baba; you have answered the question beautifully. Now to

Narasimhiah's unanswered point regarding the bogus Sai Krishna or Pandavapura

exposed by his committee as a fraud and a cheat. He alleges that the boy had

your patronage.

No Contact with Fake Boy

Baba: I can assure you there is absolutely no connection between him and Myself.

His people have several times attempted to arrange a meeting between us, but we

have refused their requests. Of course, thousands of people, as you saw this

morning, come here for Darshan. There are others also who masquerade as My

disciples or make money using My name. As this happens not only here but in

other states and even abroad, we cannot do anything about it. They expose

themselves sooner or later, as did this boy. I have absolutely no connection or

relationship with such people.

Q: The Narasimhiah Committee wanted to investigate your miracles scientifically

under controlled conditions, as they put it. You rejected the proposal. Would

you like to comment on this controversy?

Baba: How can science, which is bound to a physical, and materialist outlook

investigate transcendental phenomena beyond its scope, reach or comprehension?

This is a fallacy on the face of it. One belongs to the material and the other

to a spiritual plane. Science must confine its inquiry only to things belonging

to the human senses, while spiritualism transcends the senses. If you want to

understand the nature of spiritual power you can do so only through the path of

spirituality and not science. What science has been able to unravel is merely a

fraction of the cosmic phenomena; it tends, however, to exaggerate its

contribution.

Q: That is true, Swamiji, but science is developing all the time so that the

metaphysics of yesterday become the physics of today.

Glow-Worm in Sunlight

Baba: Quite right, but it is still blind to the vast and invisible world of

consciousness. The very fact that science is changing all the time proves its

incapacity to investigate the ultimate and absolute truth. Some time ago,

scientists maintained that the atom cannot be broken, but recently they

succeeded in breaking it. They are still ignorant about the realities of the

pranic force behind the atom, which is the least of its components.

Science is merely a glow-worm in the light and splendor of the sun. It is true

that it can research, discover and gather a lot of information about nature and

its material functions and use it for the development of worldly things.

Spiritualism, on the other hand, reigns over the cosmic field where science has

no place. That is why some discoveries of science are useful while others can be

disastrous.

As I have said before, Dr Narasimhiah and his group are like the Telugu men who

go to the cinema to see a Tamil film. They will see only the dancing, the

fighting and violence, the heroes and villains, the star with a beautiful face

and these kinds of superficial things, but they will lose the subtler aspects

such as the music and the poetry, the plot, the dialogue, the jokes and the

like.

Wrong Spirit and Approach

However, as I have said again and again, those who want to understand Me are

welcome here. It is the spirit of the investigation that is important. Foreign

parapsychologists have come here and examined Me in such a positive and

constructive spirit. You have seen their reports. They do not write letters or

make public demands.

Narasimhiah's approach was improper; that is why I rejected it. If it were not

so, he would have been welcome. I do not call people here so that they may bow

to a God. I want them to come, see, hear, study, observe, experience and

realize Baba. Then only, they will understand Me and appreciate the Avatar.

Q: Dr. Narasimhiah maintains that according to science, "Nothing can be created

out of nothing." You have evidently negated this law of science with a

transcendental formula for controlling cosmic energy and producing paranormal

power. Can you explain this mystery?

"What I Will, Happens"

Baba: The formula that nothing can be created out of nothing is appropriate to

the limited field and dimensions of science. It does not at all apply to the

transcendental field and dimensions of spirituality. In the latter field,

anything can be created by the supreme will. All that exists can be made to

disappear and what does not exist can be made to appear.

Our history and tradition, scripture as well as literature, are full of such

incidents, which they call miracles. The material laws and formulas simply do

not apply to divinity. For Me this is not a matter of any mystery or mystique.

What I will, happens: what I order, materializes.

Q: The Vice-Chancellor appears to ridicule your statement that "There is God in

us all." He asks: "Is this not pure escapism? How can God be so unsure of

Himself?" Your rejoinder, please?

To be contd.

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