I can't go back to Godhead in this life

[Guest guest]

Those who postulate, "I can't go back to Godhead in this life; maybe next

time" are unlikely to ever go back to Godhead, having virtually decided not

to. For such an attitude will be carried on to the next life, and thus they

will never adopt the serious determination to surrender and do whatever is

required to achieve the ultimate goal. One who tries for it in this life,

ever begging for the mercy of guru and Krsna in his otherwise nigh

impossible endeavor, might make it back to Godhead in the next life or maybe

even in this life. Certainly such an attitude will attract the mercy of guru

and Krsna that is required to quickly terminate material bondage. But one

who flippantly postpones the attempt is liable to be caught in perpetual

procrastination and, in the words of Krsna, is killing himself:

 

nr-deham adyam su-labham su-durlabham

plavam su-kalpam guru-karna-dharam

mayanukülena nabhasvateritam

puman bhavabdhim na taret sa atma-ha

 

"The human body, which can award all benefit in life is automatically

obtained by the laws of nature, although it is a very rare achievement. This

human body can be compared to a perfectly constructed boat having the

spiritual master as the captain and the instructions of the Personality of

Godhead as favorable winds impelling it on its course. Considering all these

advantages, a human being who does not utilize his human life to cross the

ocean of material existence must be considered the killer of his own soul."

(SB 11.20.7)

[Guest guest]

"Bhakti Vikasa Swami" wrote....

 

Those who postulate, "I can't go back to Godhead in this

life; maybe next

time" are unlikely to ever go back to Godhead

 

is it possible for a soul who is eternally part and parcel

of the Lord to NEVER go back to GODHEAD

[Guest guest]

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Bhakti

Vikasa Swami <Bhakti.Vikasa.Swami (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote:

Those who postulate, "I can't go back to Godhead in this life; maybe nexttime"

are unlikely to ever go back to Godhead, having virtually decided notto.

I have heard that there are two kinds of souls, nitya-baddha, eternally

conditioned and nitya-mukta, eternally liberated (I think!). So, I understand

you are referring to the former class? But, do these souls never get a chance?

if that is the case, that brings in an element of partiality on Krishna's side.

Why do some souls choose to be conditioned (or choose material enjoyment) and

why not others? I believe answers to some of these questions are not very

convincing, whichever sampradaya we look into. Although, the element of free

will and its misuse explains a few things, it's very hard to understand, why

some souls misuse their free will and are made to suffer (because of karmic

laws, which are ultimately designed by Krishna), and while others (the eternal

associates who help in his pastimes) seem to have eternal happiness by

remembering Him all the time. I have heard that finding answers can be

difficult and what we have to is to sincerely follow the process and we will

know as we progress. Is that true? Or, are there some answers that I'm ignorant

of that even a neophyte can grasp? Awaiting eagerly for your answers and

thoughts of other devotees. Thanks in advance,

in your service,

Aravind.

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[Guest guest]

achintya, Aravind Mohanram <psuaravind>

wrote:

 

> I have heard that there are two kinds of souls, nitya-baddha,

eternally conditioned and nitya-mukta, eternally liberated (I

think!). So, I understand you are referring to the former class? But,

do these souls never get a chance? if that is the case, that brings

in an element of partiality on Krishna's side. Why do some souls

>

 

 

I have heard it said that Maadhvas do consider some souls to be

eternally conditioned. However, the fault for this lies entirely with

those souls rather than Krishna. It simply is the case that some

individuals will always refuse to enter into Krishna's devotional

service and thus remain in maayaa. But they always get the chance

nevertheless. Thus, it is their own free will which they misuse,

rather than any partiality on Krishna's part.

 

- K

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 9 Apr 2003, Bhakti Vikasa Swami wrote:

> "The human body, which can award all benefit in life is automatically

> obtained by the laws of nature, although it is a very rare achievement. This

> human body can be compared to a perfectly constructed boat having the

> spiritual master as the captain and the instructions of the Personality of

> Godhead as favorable winds impelling it on its course. Considering all these

> advantages, a human being who does not utilize his human life to cross the

> ocean of material existence must be considered the killer of his own soul."

> (SB 11.20.7)

 

In a sense, anyone who has come into contact with a bonafide guru and

sadhu-sanga, and who is trying to follow the process taught in sastra, has

already come 90% of the way. Out of 8,400,000 other possible species, someone

has finally evolved to the human form; moreover, he or she may have even taken

spiritual initiation, which is itself a major achievement as well. One simply

has to diligently adhere to what Krsna has given so far (as per the advice of

Upadesamrta), and success practically guaranteed.

 

MDd

[Guest guest]

>> In a sense, anyone who has come into contact with a

bonafide guru and sadhu-sanga, and who is trying to

follow the process taught in sastra, has already come

90% of the way. Out of 8,400,000 other possible

species, someone has finally evolved to the human

form; moreover, he or she may have even taken

spiritual initiation, which is itself a major

achievement as well. <<

 

Haribol,

 

What sense is this? Although I do not diagree with the

idea that taking spiritual initiayion from a bona-fide

guru is a great achievement, I observe that this verse

is in Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu:

 

adau sraddha tatah sadhu-sango ’tha bhajana-kriya

tato ’nartha-nivrttih syat tato nistha rucis tatah

athasaktis tato bhavas tatah premabhyudancati

sadhakanam ayam premnah pradurbhave bhavet kramah

 

So based on the above, sadhu-sanga and bhajana-kriya

(often used to denote initiation) are the first two

steps, so how do you equate that with saying that

sadhakas who have achieved this level have come 90% of

the way when there is so much more to achieve?

 

In service of Nityananda-Gauranga,

 

Jay

 

=====

"One who chants Gauranga's name will get the mercy of Krsna, and he will be able

to live in Vrndavana. One who worships Krsna without chanting the name of

Gauranga will get Krsna only after a long time. But he who takes Gauranga's name

quickly gets Krsna, for offenses do not remain within him."

 

- Sri Narada Muni, Navadvipa Dhama-mahatmya, Chapter 7

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

(MDd wrote)

> >> In a sense, anyone who has come into contact with a

> bonafide guru and sadhu-sanga, and who is trying to

> follow the process taught in sastra, has already come

> 90% of the way. Out of 8,400,000 other possible

> species, someone has finally evolved to the human

> form; moreover, he or she may have even taken

> spiritual initiation, which is itself a major

> achievement as well. <<

 

On Wed, 23 Apr 2003, Sanjay Dadlani wrote:

 

> I observe that this verse

> is in Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu:

>

> adau sraddha tatah sadhu-sango ’tha bhajana-kriya

> tato ’nartha-nivrttih syat tato nistha rucis tatah

> athasaktis tato bhavas tatah premabhyudancati

> sadhakanam ayam premnah pradurbhave bhavet kramah

>

> So based on the above, sadhu-sanga and bhajana-kriya

> (often used to denote initiation) are the first two

> steps, so how do you equate that with saying that

> sadhakas who have achieved this level have come 90% of

> the way when there is so much more to achieve?

 

I’m looking at it broadly, in terms of the millennia of reincarnations

we conditioned souls undergo, and optimistically, as I’ve hinted above.

An analogy explains the rarity of obtaining a bonafide guru; somewhere

within the vast ocean, there is a particular sea turtle. Floating somewhere

in that same ocean is a log which just happens to have a small knothole in

it. Sea turtles rarely surface to breathe, so the likelihood of this turtle

doing so in such a way that its head goes through the knothole of that driftwood

is very slight; finding a bonafide guru in this life is equally rare. Of

course, attaining a human birth is rare itself (durlabham

manusam janma), so to attain both is quite an achievement. However, we

also have to consider one’s specific spiritual goal, which is relative.

 

My analysis stresses generic bhakti, or even liberation (i.e., “going back to

Godhead” in the manner initially sought by most conditioned souls, viz.,

the four types of Vaisnava liberations); Srila Prabhupada himself stressed

this at times. It is thus relevant for most people.

 

At the same time, we Gaudiya Vaisnavas should also appreciate the rare,

exalted, and highly confidential nature of the Krsna-prema offered only

by Lord Caitanya and his followers.

 

The quote you’ve given from Rupa Gosvami’s Bhaktirasamrta-sindhu

neatly outlines the stages of spiritual advancement beginning from initial

faith, to satsanga (saintly association), consequent bhajana-kriya (including

initiation), anartha-nivrtti (removal of obstacles), fixity, firm attraction,

and strong attachment, to affection (bhava), and then mature love of Krsna

(prema).

 

In fact, prema is itself subdivided into many further stages, such that Rupa

Gosvami saw a need to write another entire book about it (Ujjvala-nilamani).

So to someone, the “adau sraddha” verse might also seem as elementary or

incomplete as my analysis. However, most people just don’t have the

prerequisite qualifications to enter such topics, so it’s just as well to let

these things remain relatively confidential, at least in public fora.

 

Any such teaching is relative to the qualification of its intended audience.

 

I hope this helps.

 

MDd