Guest guest Posted April 28, 2003 Report Share Posted April 28, 2003 In Digest Number 794 Mukunda Datta Prabhu wrote: > Simple Folio scholarship also has its weaknesses. The best > system is to learn the philosophical conclusions of Vaisnava acaryas > through serving pure devotees. Another trait noticeable on Achintya is discussion of abstruse philosophical points (e.g. the legitimacy or otherwise of Mira) by persons seemingly lacking grounding in basic Gaudiya understanding. The online courses on Gita As It Is that are available would probably be helpful for the practical spiritual advancement of some Achintya-ites. Those interested could contact me for details. Hare Krishna. dasa, BVS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2003 Report Share Posted April 30, 2003 achintya, "Bhakti Vikasa Swami" <Bhakti.Vikasa.Swami@p...> wrote: > Another trait noticeable on Achintya is discussion of abstruse philosophical > points (e.g. the legitimacy or otherwise of Mira) by persons seemingly > lacking grounding in basic Gaudiya understanding. Discussion is most valuable to me when it causes me to reevaluate my faith, and force me to find solid ground upon which to develop strong conviction. If devotees avoid sentimentalism and try to stick to an evidence-based approach, there is much we can learn. The problem I think is when discussion exposes a gap in one's knowledge, and yet one continues to argue in spite of this. Another problem is when devotees argue on the basis of pure sentiment... i.e. "How can you doubt this person, he is obviously a great devotee!" etc etc. The Mira discussion is a case in point. I avoided this deliberately because I think one has to understand the fundamentals of rasa theology, which I do not claim to do. Furthermore, there is obvious attachment to Mira's bhajans by some followers which may not be tempered with consideration of these philosophical points. Thus, I have only asked that members who wish to discuss it make reference to explicit points rather than speaking in a general way. The fact that this discussion is not continuing suggests to me that most devotees are not comfortable dealing with such advanced issues of devotion between Krishna and the gopikas, which I suppose is reasonable. Really, I think before one can argue that Mira's bhajans are acceptable to Gaudiiya Vaishnava devotees, one has to at least know Nectar of Devotion well... and quite possibly more than that. > The online courses on Gita As It Is that are available would probably be > helpful for the practical spiritual advancement of some Achintya- ites. Those > interested could contact me for details. I think this would be a good example of a link which could be added to the Achintya links section. I would like to see that URL so I can add it. yours, - K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2003 Report Share Posted May 3, 2003 Nityananda-Gauranga bol! Krishna Susarla writes: >> Furthermore, there is obvious attachment to Mira's bhajans by some followers which may not be tempered with consideration of these philosophical points. Thus, I have only asked that members who wish to discuss it make reference to explicit points rather than speaking in a general way. << In case nobody noticed, it was suggested that an example of Mirabai's bhajans was submitted for critical analysis and I provided such a point. Probably nobody noticed because we got caught up in other discussions. However the link to that bhajan is still there in my original post if anyone wants to discuss and analyse it. >> The fact that this discussion is not continuing suggests to me that most devotees are not comfortable dealing with such advanced issues of devotion between Krishna and the gopikas, which I suppose is reasonable. << Personally, I don't mind as I am not uncomfortable. However a good reminder is that even a contemporary (well, recent) Acharya such Srila Gour Govinda Swami specifically mentioned the subject of Mirabai's bhava as comparable to that of Gaudiya Vaishnavas, specifically rejecting it on the basis that they apparently desire sayujya-mukti which, as we all know, is not acceptable to Gaudiyas. >> Really, I think before one can argue that Mira's bhajans are acceptable to Gaudiiya Vaishnava devotees, one has to at least know Nectar of Devotion well... and quite possibly more than that. << Correct. Kind regards, Jay ===== "One who chants Gauranga's name will get the mercy of Krsna, and he will be able to live in Vrndavana. One who worships Krsna without chanting the name of Gauranga will get Krsna only after a long time. But he who takes Gauranga's name quickly gets Krsna, for offenses do not remain within him." - Sri Narada Muni, Navadvipa Dhama-mahatmya, Chapter 7 The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2003 Report Share Posted May 4, 2003 achintya, Sanjay Dadlani <dark_knight_9> wrote: > Nityananda-Gauranga bol! > > Personally, I don't mind as I am not uncomfortable. > However a good reminder is that even a contemporary > (well, recent) Acharya such Srila Gour Govinda Swami > specifically mentioned the subject of Mirabai's bhava > as comparable to that of Gaudiya Vaishnavas, > specifically rejecting it on the basis that they > apparently desire sayujya-mukti which, as we all know, > is not acceptable to Gaudiyas. > >> Krishna Susarla writes:> > >> Really, I think before one can argue that Mira's > bhajans are acceptable to Gaudiiya Vaishnava devotees, > one has to at least know Nectar of Devotion well... > and quite possibly more than that. << > > Correct. > > Kind regards, > > Jay Nectar of Devotion and also what Srila Prabhupada himself say about the vaisnava personality of Mirabhai.I have not read anything he say against her. Maybe is this exist somehere? The source comes from a Mayavadi's propaganda showing in a painting the so-called fusion of Mirabhai and Krsna. Prabhupada call them bad names as he was informed of that deed. So why rejecting them on that basis they "apparently desire sayujya mukti"?. Again we receive references coming from other's statement based on apparence but not directly from the Iskcon-founder-acarya, writer of NOD , this may lead us in incomplete understanding of those topics reputed delicate to approach, but broadcasted by sadhus expert in the matter, as for any other spiritual teaching. But If we don't agree with the reality of Prabhupada's vani, as Maharaja said in a darshan, what is the use of recording so much opinions , statements and books of Srila Prabhupa as NOD?. And in the same logic, what is the use of reading Maharaja's instructions since he is not yet "contemporary (well,recent)" anymore?. I beg you to clear my doubts close from a sunyavada misconception. I hope having contributed for the glorification of qualified vaisnavas and not ofending any one by the precision I brought and I asked for. Friendly Vrajananda das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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