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In Digest Number 846 Gerald Surya wrote:

 

> this

> critical passage is (mis)taken by Ramanuja and Nimbarka

 

Thankyou for the interesting insights on Vedanta exegesis. However I suggest

that we be thoughtful in choosing words and not state (for instance) that

Ramanuja and Nimbarka are "mistaken." Even if Madhva and others use such

terms to criticise other acaryas, it is probably best that we refrain from

doing so, or that we employ euphemisms. Ramanuja and Nimbarka are acaryas

and worshipable; their intelligence and realization is ever far above ours.

Even if something they state may appear incorrect, it is better that we

consider the Lord has thus inspired them for a particular purpose. Caitanya

Mahaprabhu when criticising Sankaracarya's philosophy said as much about

Sankaracarya (see CC Adi 7.114).

 

Apart from that I personally feel that without sidestepping philosophical

issues we should take care to respect and maintain friendship with members

of bona fide sampradayas. A few of them may hotheadedly blast us, but others

are very appreciative. Persons dedicated to Visnu are rare in this world and

it is better that we focus on our similarities and try not to step on each

others' toes.

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achintya, "Bhakti Vikasa Swami"

<Bhakti.Vikasa.Swami@p...> wrote:

> In Digest Number 846 Gerald Surya wrote:

>

> > this

> > critical passage is (mis)taken by Ramanuja and Nimbarka

>

> Thankyou for the interesting insights on Vedanta exegesis. However

I suggest

> that we be thoughtful in choosing words and not state (for

instance) that

> Ramanuja and Nimbarka are "mistaken." Even if Madhva and others use

such

> terms to criticise other acaryas, it is probably best that we

refrain from

> doing so, or that we employ euphemisms. Ramanuja and Nimbarka are

acaryas

> and worshipable; their intelligence and realization is ever far

above ours.

 

 

This is a very good point. We should be careful in how we employ

words when we must step up to defend our sampradaaya. I wish other

Vaishnavas were similarly sensitive when talking about our

aachaaryas, but I am sure having a superior standard of etiquette

will be beneficial in the long run.

 

yours,

 

- K

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achintya, "krishna_susarla"

<krishna_susarla@h...> wrote:

> achintya, "Bhakti Vikasa Swami"

> <Bhakti.Vikasa.Swami@p...> wrote:

> > In Digest Number 846 Gerald Surya wrote:

> >

> > > this

> > > critical passage is (mis)taken by Ramanuja and Nimbarka

> >

> > Thankyou for the interesting insights on Vedanta exegesis.

However

> I suggest

> > that we be thoughtful in choosing words and not state (for

> instance) that

> > Ramanuja and Nimbarka are "mistaken." Even if Madhva and others

use

> such

> > terms to criticise other acaryas, it is probably best that we

> refrain from

> > doing so, or that we employ euphemisms. Ramanuja and Nimbarka are

> acaryas

> > and worshipable; their intelligence and realization is ever far

> above ours.

>

>

> This is a very good point. We should be careful in how we employ

> words when we must step up to defend our sampradaaya. I wish other

> Vaishnavas were similarly sensitive when talking about our

> aachaaryas, but I am sure having a superior standard of etiquette

> will be beneficial in the long run.

>

> yours,

>

> - K

 

Hare Krishna

 

Well, vaishnavas from Sri and Madhva Sampradya think too high of

themselves. They think that Gaudiya philosophy is nothing serious and

is made without any intellectual reasoning. Many people even outside

Gaudiya circles have the same feelings, that these followers of

Mahaprabhu just know how to sing and dance but have no capability to

contribute to intellectual Vedanta discussion.

 

In combating this we must follow Lord Chaitanyas footsteps. When he

was in banaras, chanting and dancing singing Lord Krishnas' name, the

mayavadis thought him to be a sentimentalist bhakta incapable of

highly philosophical vedanta discussions. But Mahaprabhus

respectable, polite etiquette combined with his scholastic knowledge

of Vedanta won the hearts of those mayavadis.

 

So we should maintain polite behavior like mahaprabhu but at the same

time we should also follow mahaprabhus way of making ourselves

learned in Vedanta Sutra, Upanisad, Gita and Bhagavatam[& Sandarbha].

 

This will surely win us respect amongst fellow Vaishnavas.

 

At last always remember:

 

" One should chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of

mind, thinking oneself lower than the straw in the street; one should

be more tolerant than a tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige,

and should be ready to offer all respect to others. In such a state

of mind one can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly. "

(Sri Siksastaka 3)

 

 

Your Servant Always

Sumeet.

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achintya, "sumeet1981" <sumeet1981> wrote:

 

> Well, vaishnavas from Sri and Madhva Sampradya think too high of

> themselves. They think that Gaudiya philosophy is nothing serious

and

> is made without any intellectual reasoning. Many people even

outside

> Gaudiya circles have the same feelings, that these followers of

> Mahaprabhu just know how to sing and dance but have no capability

to

> contribute to intellectual Vedanta discussion.

 

 

Unfortunately, we have no one else but ourselves to blame for this.

Like it or not, there definitely is a climate of anti-intellectualism

in the Western Gaudiya Vaishnava community. This attitude holds that

scriptures are useful when it comes to refuting someone else's

philosophy. But when those same scriptures are used against us,

instead of responding in kind we have a habit of becoming indignant,

fanatical, sentimental, or finding some other way of evading our

responsibility to defend our aachaaryas.

 

There is definitely a very appropriate warning in our tradition

against pursuing scholarship for its own sake. We aren't interested

in studying the Vedas for any mundane purpose. But when so many

things can be used in Krishna consciousness (guitars, rock and roll

music, etc) then why not also Vedic studies? We forget that titles

like "Bhaktivedanta" in our tradition do not discourage all

scholarship, but rather show the *proper* place of scholarship - for

the purpose of promoting Krishna-consciousness. Krishna declares in

Bhagavad-gita that those who study it are actually worshipping Him

with their intelligence. It's therefore not acceptable to not know

Bhagavad-gita, Srimad Bhagavatam, and other books published by Srila

Prabhupada.

 

> In combating this we must follow Lord Chaitanyas footsteps. When he

> was in banaras, chanting and dancing singing Lord Krishnas' name,

the

> mayavadis thought him to be a sentimentalist bhakta incapable of

> highly philosophical vedanta discussions. But Mahaprabhus

> respectable, polite etiquette combined with his scholastic

knowledge

> of Vedanta won the hearts of those mayavadis.

>

> So we should maintain polite behavior like mahaprabhu but at the

same

> time we should also follow mahaprabhus way of making ourselves

> learned in Vedanta Sutra, Upanisad, Gita and Bhagavatam[&

Sandarbha].

>

 

Right on.

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On Sun, 22 Jun 2003, sumeet1981 wrote:

> Well, vaishnavas from Sri and Madhva Sampradya think too high of

> themselves. They think that Gaudiya philosophy is nothing serious and

> is made without any intellectual reasoning. Many people even outside

> Gaudiya circles have the same feelings, that these followers of

> Mahaprabhu just know how to sing and dance but have no capability to

> contribute to intellectual Vedanta discussion.

 

However, most mainstream, accomplished (and especially younger) Indological

scholars of South Asian languages, literature, and religion, certainly don't

share this view. Gaudiya Vaisnavas since the 16th century have been highly

appreciated for their original and prolific contribution to these fields, and

their wide influence on society. This is especially the case in Sanskrit

literature. However, I have observed that Indian scholars generally privelege

the Sri, Dvaita, and Sankara sect as the main Vedanta schools; apart from

sectarian interests that minimize the Srimad-Bhagavatam, I suspect this tendency

indirectly represents tenacious assumptions popularized by European Orientalists

in the last two centuries, who also favored classical Vedic studies over

everything else.

 

Of course, if we're talking only about ISKCON, then we may have room for

improvement, since even Srila Prabhupada said his main criticism of its members

was that they didn't read his books very much.

 

MDd

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