Are the events of Mahabharat historic facts ?

[Guest guest]

I feel privileged to be part of this dynamic forum . I am sure the

knowledgeable members of this forum will be able to help me.

 

I have found that in order to establish the authenticity of Sanatana dharma

( or ISKCON) an important part is to establish the authority of the Vedas

and vedic literature.

Standard reasoning can be to speak about the four defects .We can talk

about scientific principles always supported by the veas but accepted by

the scientists after considerable amount of skepticism .

 

 

But I need some more help in this regard . Especially in proving how the

events of Ramayana and Mahabharat are not mythology . That five thousand

years ego there was actually a great war in which the technology employed

was so advanced that it can hardly be matched today. That human beings were

far more intelligent and powerful then the present generation so much so

that

warriors like Bhima or Jarasandha had the strength of 10 thousand

elephants. Can these questions be answered ?

[Guest guest]

achintya, rbshah@m... wrote:

 

> But I need some more help in this regard . Especially in proving

how the

> events of Ramayana and Mahabharat are not mythology . That five

thousand

> years ego there was actually a great war in which the technology

employed

> was so advanced that it can hardly be matched today. That human

beings were

> far more intelligent and powerful then the present generation so

much so

> that

> warriors like Bhima or Jarasandha had the strength of 10 thousand

> elephants. Can these questions be answered ?

 

I think it's important to point out to the skeptics that their

viewpoint is arbitrary. Why should they believe an account is

fanciful merely because it speaks of things which are beyond their

experience? Are the skeptics experienced enough in the ways of the

world, nature, science, etc that they can define for all times and

all places what kinds of things are possible and what are not? Two-

hundred years ago scientists would have scoffed at the idea of

travelling into space, and now this is a reality. Fifty years ago

they scoffed at the idea of travelling faster than the speed of

sound, and now this, too, is a reality.

 

The skeptics should realize that their notions of what is or is not

possible are conditioned by their experiences, which are finite and

bound by the extremely small size of their life spans. They have to

realize this, if they claim to be objective.

 

Another point to consider is that an omnipresent, omniscient,

omnnipotent God can make anything possible. If the skeptics don't

doubt the existence of God, then why should they doubt that His

empowered devotees can have the strength of 10,000 elephants, or

travel through space on a horse-drawn chariot, etc?

 

Keep in mind that these same skeptics have no problem suspending

disbelief when they see such things on television or cinema. Why,

then, do they only have problems suspending disbelief when it comes

to matters of religious scripture? The answer, of course, is obvious.

Suspending disbelief when watching a science-fiction movie gives one

the benefit of entertainment, albeit temporary. But suspending

disbelief when it come to reading of religious scriptures makes one

come face to face with the responsibilities those scriptures teach

him - responsibilities which the skeptic might have justified

avoiding by inappropriately dismissing scriptural accounts and

scoffing at their apparently quaint attitudes.

 

yours,

 

- K

[Guest guest]

 

http://www.indiadivine.org/tattva18.htm

 

in your service,

Aravind.

[Guest guest]

achintya, rbshah@m... wrote:

 

 

 

> But I need some more help in this regard . Especially in proving

how the

> events of Ramayana and Mahabharat are not mythology. That five

thousand

> years ego there was actually a great war in which the technology

employed

> was so advanced that it can hardly be matched today.

 

 

 

The skeptic may claim that the people of that age was actually a bunch of

cave residents and that this history was a mythology made up by them. Well,

are a bunch of cave-men or residents of mud huts sophisticated enough to

make up out of their own imagination stories that comes to the level of a

modern science fiction writer? I think the answer to that is clear.

 

 

 

Omer

[Guest guest]

 

in your service,

 

Aravind.

[Edited. Please remember to delete excess quoted text. - K]

[Guest guest]

> comprehension of my tiny brain. But still I would like to know that if

the same culture was prevalent all over the world > then the confirmation

should come from all over the world.

 

There is a book written by a devotee named Sri Nandanandana Dasa (Stephen Knapp)

that addresses this in quite some detail. It's called "Proof of Vedic Culture's

Global Existence" and it examines the influence of ancient Vedic culture all

over the world from the areas of linguistics, archaeology, and in comparison

with other religions. The website addresses are as follows:

 

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/proof_of_vedic_culture's_global_existence.htm

 

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/recent_archeological_finds_confirming_Vedic_history.htm

 

regards,Dharmesh

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 rbshah wrote:

> As the Vedas claim to present the authoritative history of the entire

> world  which is certainly beyond the comprehension  of my tiny brain. But

> still   I would like to know that   if the same culture was  prevalent

>  all over the world then the  confirmation should come from all over the

> world.

 

Not necessarily; people forget things. Universally, lower class people also

tend to neglect what is actually auspicious and eminently worthwhile. Even

though Vedic culture is Divine, apparently modern Indians can't remember this

even now, due to embracing so much bad association. Over relatively long

periods of time, it isn't difficult to see that this has already happened

everywhere with everyone else as well.

 

MDd

[Guest guest]

achintya, Aravind Mohanram <psuaravind>

wrote:

> Good points. But, is there any archaeological evidence that shows

that there was a great war? I'm not aware of any compelling evidence.

I think such evidences may throw more light on the subject.

>

 

I believe H.H. Hridayananda das Gosvami and H.G. Garuda das may have

some information in this regard. If such evidence exists, it would be

great. But if not, I wouldn't sweat it.

 

Remember that we are dealing with events that took place more than

5000 years ago (what to speak of the Raamaayana which speaks of

events more than 2 million years ago). The evidence is bound to be

washed away by time - absence of evidence is not proof of absence.

Another point to mention to the skeptics is that there is no reason

not to regard Mahaabhaarata and Raamaayana themselves as evidence

that such things occurred. Even in academic circles, there is a

definite trend towards assuming an historical basis for many

religious literatures (i.e. the Bible). The question therefore isn't

whether or not Mahaabhaarata war occurred, but rather why some people

believe that it did not occur. Since the author of the Mahaabhaarata

gives no indication that his writing was meant to be taken as

allegorical, we shouldn't assume that it is for arbitrary reasons.

 

yours,

 

- K

[Guest guest]

 

If scientists can find evidences of remains of living beings that lived millions

of years ago, it's hard to understand why it would be difficult to

find something to support the happening of a great war that took place just

5000 yrs ago. I think, maybe, it is possible that the magnitude of destruction

was so bad that no shred of evidence remained.

 

in your service,

Aravind.

[Guest guest]

> achintya, Aravind Mohanram <psuaravind> > wrote:>

> Good points. But, is there any archaeological evidence that shows > that

there was a great war? I'm not aware of any compelling evidence. > I think such

evidences may throw more light on the subject.

>The evidence is bound to be > washed away by time - absence of evidence is not

proof of absence. > Another point to mention to the skeptics is that there is

no reason > not to regard Mahaabhaarata and Raamaayana themselves as evidence >

that such things occurred. Even in academic circles, there is a > definite trend

towards assuming an historical basis for many > religious literatures (i.e. the

Bible). The question therefore isn't > whether or not Mahaabhaarata war

occurred, but rather why some people > believe that it did not occur. Since the

author of the Mahaabhaarata > gives no indication that his writing was meant to

be taken as > allegorical, we shouldn't assume that it is for arbitrary

reasons.> - K

Good question and good answer. We might remember that the person whom many

consider the father of archaeology - Heinrich Schliemann - discovered the city

of Troy becasuse he took seriously the ancient Greek history while the

so-called intelligensia considered it all mythology. This mentality is still

prevalant today as may be demonstrated with the relatively recent satatlite

photos showing that the so-called mythical river Saraswati is really there.

Additionally, it is unclear how much evidence may be left lying around by a

culture where it is common that even used disposable plastic cups are scavenged

by children from dangerous rail road tracks. My point being that culturally

nothing is wasted so why might we assume there would be stuff left like

valuable metal objects? And bodies? In this culture everyone was cremated and

the ashes scattered. Modern archaeologists now also look to other kinds of

evidence such as cultue, etc. and I think that kind of evidence remains quite

strong in a culture dominated by oral tradition rather than stuff tradition

(for example, see here for a related reference to the Saraswati from an Indian

archeaological journal: http://www.picatype.com/dig/dc/dc0aa08.htm).

ys, santiparayana

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna Prabhu,

 

There can be evidences retrieved for this. Few years ago,

Archeological Society of India found out the sub-merged city of

Dwarika with lots of palaces and buildings etc. Someone can contact

the society and ask them about the findings. Also this project was

put off due to the non-availability of funds. I'm sure somehow Govt.

can be pursued to carry out this work.

 

Also, last year NASA published the pictures of the manmade bridge

between Lanka and Rameshwaram. Why no more research is done on it?

It's the same bridge Lord Rama constructed to cross over.

 

These two are not direct evidences but very useful references.

 

-Naresh